California has effectively ruined NCAA sports and amateur athletics....

Discussion in 'The Raider Roundup' started by sWiley, Sep 30, 2019.

  1. sWiley

    sWiley All American
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    I really do wish that state would fall off the face of the earth. They have effectively ruined college athletics and they've done so now despite the "it doesn't kick in until 2023" claims. I guarantee you coaches are already on the recruiting trail promising big dollars from car dealership sponsors starting January 1st, 2023. The saddest part of it all? California liberal lawmakers are likely only doing this to create more TAX revenue and pad their broke @$$ state coffers. Selfish pathetic mother f'ers.

    Seriously, California, I hope one of those fires one day wipes out your entire state. So sick of your elitist mentality trying to impose your unwanted will on the rest of our country. DONE WITH THAT STATE AND ITS LAWMAKERS AND THE PEOPLE WHO ELECT THEM. Count me in for the revolution to remove that filthy state from our beautiful country.

    I really hope the NCAA doesn't cave and instead decides to ban California Universities from competition. See how much money they generate then. While we are at it, just remove them from the union as well.

    https://www.espn.com/college-sports...-gov-gavin-newsom-signs-law-fair-pay-play-act
     
    1 sWiley, Sep 30, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
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  2. MTBig Blue

    MTBig Blue All American
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    They need to form their own country, and implement all of these policies that they are bringing forth as a test to show the rest of the world how bad of an idea it is. We'll see it sink faster than the Titanic.
     
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  3. sWiley

    sWiley All American
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    This is already an unfair advantage. I guarantee California coaches are already promising big endorsement deals to recruits on January 1st, 2023. This is already being used to unfairly recruit. WE NEED ACTION NOW! BAN CALIFORNIA UNIVERSITIES!
     
  4. MidTennMtneer

    MidTennMtneer Blue Raider Fan
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    Ban em. I bet the ADs at the rest of the PAC12 and MWC schools are calling the Commissioners of the B12, AAC, etc. prepping themselves for that.

    This won’t be over for a while. I honestly am not sure the NCAA has the nerve to do that though.
     
  5. MTLynn

    MTLynn Hall of Famer
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    Oh c'mon, Wiley, tell us how you really feel :)

    It will probably hasten the development of a new division. It's a mess.
     
  6. bluefutcpa

    bluefutcpa True Blue
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    Hell these cats are getting paid already at least we can stop pretending that it’s not happening.
     
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  7. sWiley

    sWiley All American
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    This isn't about being paid vs. not being paid. If every state passes their own laws/rules it will be absolute chaos. Legislation/rules moving forward must be done at a national level so that it's even and fair.

    A state shouldn't be trying to take matters into it's own hands. The NCAA and NCAA athletics encompasses over 1,100 campuses across our 50 states in the United States of America. I don't know who the F California thinks they are but they need a reality check and/or to succeed from the USA and do their own thing. I am so sick of their liberal politicians trying to exert pressure on the rest of the country WHEN WE DO NOT WANT IT. F OFF.

    California doing their own thing honestly would be great. They can become the global leader in homelessness (probably already are) and everyone who hates Trump can migrate there and live happily ever after.

    In the mean time, any university who allows it's athletes to take money in violation of NCAA by-laws should be banned from competition.
     
    7 sWiley, Sep 30, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
  8. rcodeman

    rcodeman Blue Raider Fan
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    The NCAA is the most hypocritical organization in sports. They sign a multi-billion dollar TV contract seemingly every other season and then cry that there is no money. SEC/Big Ten/PAC 12/ACC Networks all exist and again there are millions to go around. Texas makes millions on their own network. Notre Dame and NBC contract. The list continues.

    Nearly every Division I coach makes a million dollars, but the people that make engine go are unpaid laborers. The players get benefits sure, but is it commensurate with what they provide the school? For example, Does the school continue to pay for their medical treatment from football? The value of a college degree isn't what it was when the NCAA started. The players that attempted to unionize had it right, someone or some entity should ensure their rights. A football player specifically, because that's about 80% of what we are taking about has a finite time to play. Three to four of those years are spent in college. The majority of these players' careers will end during that time. THE NCAA has grown its profits and "revenue," even though they are a supposed non-profit.

    The NCAA is an antiquated model and their refusal to change and adapt with the times lead them to this conclusion. They kept their head in the sand while change was going on. The problem is one cannot have it both ways. The NCAA makes too much money, there is too much involved now to say the players can't be compensated. Unfortunately, this will lead to separation of powers in college football I believe in the near future, even more so than now.
     
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  9. SpaceRaider

    SpaceRaider Moderator
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    Forget the name of the old bandit that when asked why he robbed banks, he replied 'that's where the money is.'

    Tons of money in the NCAA. Millions and billions over the years though it is concentrated in just few dozen programs. That inequity is the colleges and the NCAA's fault. They have done nothing or made things far more worse, and now here comes the real criminals. Where you have lots of money, greedy politicians, are always going to be scheming on how to get their grubby hands on it or get control of how it is distributed. That won't make things any better or more fair and I guarantee you where the government (any level) gets involved it will be far worse. You can take that to the bank. College athletics? They don't give a sh*t about that or the student athletes.

    I have no love for the NCAA, but have a great deal more antipathy towards politicians who whenever they are in session are always up to no good. California has a great deal of problems of which are a result of idiotic laws, regulations, and policies. Homelessness? Do something about relieving housing regulations that skyrocket builders' costs that make rents/mortgages unaffordable, but hey they outlawed plastic straws. Academia? Accumulate billions in endowments and not one dime is used to reduce outrageous tutitions. Meanwhile you have bloated bureaucracies that far out number professors and those that do the actual 'teaching'

    In high school and college, I learned to absolutely despise the clowns you knew were going into politics. Now as adults they are the ones that continue to make things difficult for everyone. Make things better for everyone? Right injustices? Nope, they are in for the money and to control every aspect of everyone's lives and virtue signal in front of any tv camera they can chase down. I used to think tar and feathers should be brought back, now I am thinking buying stock in guillotine manufacturers might be the best investment.
     
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  10. mtfblue

    mtfblue All Conference
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    From reading this the schools don't even want it.
     
  11. MidTennMtneer

    MidTennMtneer Blue Raider Fan
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  12. mtfblue

    mtfblue All Conference
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    This is becoming a clown fest, when you hear the interview with the governor of cali. he is talking about the athletes don't have food, clothes and money. This is not the 90's when i was in school. These kids get at the FBS level get stipends, pell grant and over 5k of gear yearly and unlimited meals. So tell me that these kids aren't living and eating good.
     
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  13. Blueraider_Mike

    Blueraider_Mike Hall of Famer
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    The other issues is this...if you move to paying players even more what happens to all the non-revenue sports? Or what about Title 9?
     
  14. MTLynn

    MTLynn Hall of Famer
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    Yes, maybe colleges should ban athletics. Kids who want to play sports can play in the minor leagues.

    That said, banning won't happen because there is too much money made in football and basketball for colleges to give it up.
     
  15. sWiley

    sWiley All American
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    There is a major flaw in your argument. You are only focused on football players, which as a whole, are not the majority of college athletes. The vast majority of college athletes DO benefit from their scholarships SIGNIFICANTLY because they play a sport that bleeds into the red annually (golf, tennis, cross country, soccer, volleyball, etc.). Thanks to Title 9 (more government BS), schools are forced to sponsor several sports that bleed them deep into the red.

    Of the 130ish FBS programs, only about 25 are in the black without significant student fee's/donations. This means the vast majority of colleges don't get rich/have all this money you think they have.

    Yes, the NCAA generates lots of revenue, but that revenue is distributed to the schools and those schools spend it + LOTS more from student fee's, donations, etc. There is not some magic NCAA vault full of billions of dollars.
     
    15 sWiley, Oct 1, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
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  16. sWiley

    sWiley All American
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    It won't be the schools paying the kids so Title 9 won't apply.

    It will be car dealerships offering $1 million commercial sponsorships that are paying the kids. Then the big Alabama dealership will offer $1.2 million.....then an oil tycoon in texas will offer $1.4 million to come be the face of his oil drilling company....

    You'll probably even see preferred walk-on's getting sponsorship deals for smaller amounts in an effort to bolster the roster at places like NC-State, Florida State, etc. which will further pull recruits away from places like MT.

    You see where this is all going? All that's going to happen is the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. MT will continue to fall further and further behind
     
  17. TruBluCop

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    MT can't get much further behind we need a lifeboat now.
     
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  18. Sommy

    Sommy True Blue
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    And this is exactly why I like this. CHAOS! Look we all know as a mid-major program the system is completely stacked against us and we all know these schools are making boatloads off the product they put on the field. Now a free education is compensation, so I would really only support a small stipend or something small given to each student athlete that would offset the fact they can't work part-time. This would give them some basic spending money and throw them a small bone. But I think this is going to lead to the Nike's of the world sponsoring college players and throwing off the entire system. BUT again I like chaos, so bring it on and destroy the whole thing. It's badly broken as it is, so maybe this sparks a conversation to make things better in the long run. Do we really think we can complete with even a UT with as much money as they bring in? Do we really think a program like Alabama that brought in over $170M shouldn't pay their players something small for some spending money? Like $5K?

    After this California deal, what is the fallout? Just wait until high school players sign with agents, who try to get them on at bigger programs that will sponsor them. What a mess.

    Bring on the chaos! I'll get the popcorn.
     
  19. mtfblue

    mtfblue All Conference
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    They are getting spending money and free luxury meals all they can eat . At the big schools 10k or more in apparel. Some get extra off there housing money if the live off campus. For instance, Maryland kids live in apartments off campus. They take the stipend and housing money add it together for about 24k a year. take the rent out and most kids are getting 10k to 12k a month. plus their Pell Grant money. That 16k to 18k a year spending money.
     
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  20. RaiderDawg78

    RaiderDawg78 All American
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    I believe the chaos this will lead to is the split of the P5 schools into their own division.

    The TV money and history of $$$ from boosters will further separate the gap, they just won’t have to hide it as much in the future.
     
  21. sWiley

    sWiley All American
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    Be careful what you wish for. It's very possible G5 programs are relegated back to FCS or into their own league where they don't even play P5 anymore. That is all but a death sentence for a program like ours. People might think it's bad now but it can get a lot worse. Basketball will also be severely effected and it's very possible the P5's only play each other in that sport as well and everyone else becomes locked out of the NCAA tournament.

    Again, be careful what you wish for.

    Unless of course you enjoy beating up on APSU, Tenn. Tech, SEMO, and a bunch of other no-name universities while playing in basketball tournaments akin to the NIT that have no well known teams in them.
     
  22. FranklinRaider315

    FranklinRaider315 All American
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    My Financial Aid Agreement (that had to be renewed every year) covered tuition, fees, room, board, books and a monthly check in the amount of $15 for laundry money. We also got free healthcare while in school. Any extra “assistance” had to be cultivated on your own. :D
     
  23. mtfblue

    mtfblue All Conference
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    yep, same here. you looked forward to that care package in the mail.
     
  24. Blue_H

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    If the P5 splits, what happens to the Vandy, Rutgers, Illinois, etc of the P5 world? They'll get poorer as well. Will they get bumped down? Basically they should just create a super conference of the 20 or so teams with huge cash bases. Everyone else goes to their own league. Oh well, the world is in a constant state of winding down anyway. This was inevitable. ‍♂️
     
  25. mtfblue

    mtfblue All Conference
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    non of those schools are being kicked out. they are in and will always be. now maybe some of those may choose not to participate, but they want be kicked out.
     
  26. coachchia

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    Let me throw another fly in the ointment... How will the tax-exempt for being non-profit status of schools and the NCAA fit into this picture....
     
  27. dukewayne

    dukewayne All Conference
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    Speculating from this point, I, too, suspect that all of this will likely accelerate the division of FBS. The big money programs will likely become semi-pro with an almost free for all of money being poured into the teams competing for championships. The rest, or most, will end up in another split similar to 1A & 1AA. A shame programs like MT fall into 1AA after a big divide. MT eventually builds back into the top group only to be broken up and thrown into a lower division yet again.

    Specifics this far out are hard to call. It's too early to tell if MT ends up back in a OVC type situation. Perhaps the G5 type programs try to make a go of it on the "scholar-athlete" model with less costs and reworked conferences for more efficient geography. A long way to go before all of this plays out.

    Even pro football went to salary caps lest a few utlra-wealthy teams bought up all the talent. Caps came about for parity. So even if the big money programs go their own way, lawyers will end up being brought in to reign in the orgy of spending at the U of Texas, Bama, Ohio St, Michigan, Texas A&M, U of Tenn, and UGAs of the world with some sort of spending limits in the name of parity.
     
  28. FranklinRaider315

    FranklinRaider315 All American
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    College sports as we know it has slowly been ruined by greed of college Presidents, shoe companies, beer brewers and definitely Bill Battle and Collegiate Licensing.
     
  29. rcodeman

    rcodeman Blue Raider Fan
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    Right. But the problem is this is not a self sustaining model. Without football and basketball its all dead.

    Second, the schools that spend money on waterslides, big fancy dining halls for just their athletes, three to four million dollar facilities, and pay coaches 4-8 million dollars do that so they can say they don't have any money. The colleges and athletic departments aren't supposed to make a profit.

    I would wager that if you went through nearly all of the power 5 schools there would be money there from basketball and football. The issue becomes as it has been for years in this argument the non-revenue sports. There's no solution to that. You either keep them as part of the athletic program or you don't. But, some type of federal intervention would be the only way to resolve the payment issue. That's why they went the short and easy route with the likeness.

    The likeness issue is a small step towards getting players compensated. It would take years for anything to come of it anyway. As you know the gap continues to grow, and this will make it no different.
     
  30. MTFNBY5

    MTFNBY5 Hall of Famer
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    College athletics as we (think we) knew them through our rose (blue) tinted glasses started on a long down-hill slide years ago. The first equipment contract, the NBC contract for Notre Dame FB, the ESPNing of sports, the advent of sports talk radio and the big-time conferences gaining more power as related to the governing bodies all were huge factors which led to where we are now.

    IMHO the largest indictment goes to the college and university administrators who forgot to care for students (and athletes) at all schools. I guess I just don't understand the elitism which the availability of money fosters. I like to think most educators, no matter the level, are altruistic and want what is best for everyone.

    My experience is mostly with educators at MT and in public elementary and secondary schools. Those with whom I am close care more for students than for institutions. That would be for all students and not just those in their care.
     
  31. crposton

    crposton True Blue
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    I personally do not think the colleges owe the players anything more than they said they would provide them in the scholarship. No one is forcing anyone to play sports in college. To most athletes the compensation of a degree and all that comes with it are enough. However, I do think if an athlete can get a local business to pay them to do a commercial or sign autographs for money then that is fine. Nothing wrong with Donovan Sims doing some advertising for some car dealership. Of course if he is getting a ridiculous amount of money to do it the NCAA can look into that.
     
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  32. mtfblue

    mtfblue All Conference
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    What part of the story did you guys read. It says no where that schools will be paying the kids, it's so agents and other people can help then secure deals on there on. I have seen no where that not 1 of the California schools actually wanted this law passed. This is all politician's sticking there nose in college athletics.
     
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  33. MTFNBY5

    MTFNBY5 Hall of Famer
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    The nexus of this issue is schools making money off of the name or likeness of an athlete. Texas Tech Mahomes jerseys are still available. Why?, he became the NFL's MVP.

    Does Mahomes have a right to be compensated for use of his name by his college on NCAA licensed gear now that he is a pro and no longer in Lubbock? Did he while a college student/athlete?

    That's the issue; It's not about colleges playing athletes or athletes doing commercials while in school IIRC.
     
  34. sWiley

    sWiley All American
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    And how are you going to feel when an Alabama dealership offers Sims more than a local Murfreesboro dealership, and Sims bolts to a P5 school for more money?

    This is exactly what will happen any time a school like MT has a good athlete. You can kiss him goodbye.

    If players are allowed to be paid by 3rd parties you can forget the little guy. Every single talented player will be playing Power 5 sports in both football and basketball. The little guy like MT will never rise up and compete again.

    Giddy Potts would have been poached after his freshmen or sophomore year, Richie James gone after his sophomore year, and so on and so forth for any breakout player at a G5 school.

    You better think long and hard about what you're asking for.
     
  35. crposton

    crposton True Blue
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    I have. Saban’s dealership is in Nashville so we are good there. It is going to happen. Might as well get out in front of it. I prefer the pro leagues not restricting when kids can turn pro.
     
  36. sWiley

    sWiley All American
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    MT athletics shouldn't even bother existing if 3rd parties are allowed to get involved and pay athletes. We already notoriously have basically no financial support, so imagine how much worse it will get. We will probably even lose players to other G5 schools who can pay better sponsorship and likeness deals. Hey Donovan Sims, I'll pay $100,000 for your autograph if you wanna come up here to Bowling Green, KY and play for the Hilltoppers!

    Any breakout player we get will be automatically poached. Recruiting of athletes will no longer come down to getting an education or bonding with a coaching staff, it will be who's offering the most money in sponsorship and likeness deals. And we all know that won't be broke @$$ Middle Tennessee U. There will be FCS and Division 2 schools out there out-bidding us.

    Those of you supporting this have honestly lost your mind IMO. NCAA sports are not professional. They are amateur athletics and that's the beauty in them. The vast majority of student athletes receive great benefit from their scholarships. There are only a select few who truly are "taken advantage" of that could probably be making big stacks on the side if allowed. You guys wanna blow up the whole system for these kids who are already likely going pro and getting paid in a few years anyway? You've lost your damn mind.

    If you have a beef with Alabama getting rich and how it spends it's money on facilities and coaches you need to find another way to address it.

    College athletics will cease to exist if players are allowed to be paid by 3rd parties, that much I can guarantee. If that's what yall want, have at it.

    Those of you in favor of this I honestly don't think you understand the far reaching consequences. If you think the gap between the have's and have not's is big right now.....boy just wait if 3rd party payments are allowed.....
     
    36 sWiley, Oct 2, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
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  37. crposton

    crposton True Blue
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    That is not what I said. I said if they are getting paid an amount that is above the norm the the NCAA can investigate. I am not sure what the going rate for a spot on a car dealer commercial is, but I am sure for Donovan it would not be $100k. He definitely would not get $100k for an autograph and that would be flagged and against the rules. I understand the concerns of allowing it, but it is going to happen. I am overall against it, but since it will happen I think the focus needs to shift to the best way to make it happen. Below is a link to a baseball signed by Babe Ruth. Price is $39,995. I would say the NCAA could reasonably say an autograph from Donovan does not have a market value of $100k.

    https://showpiecessports.com/produc...HA7vJcgr5icSwYgfUCtr93SldPsPGB_RoCT9kQAvD_BwE
     
  38. mtfblue

    mtfblue All Conference
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    NCAA will not be able to dictate how much you sell your likeness for with these new laws passing. Free market.
     
  39. MTLynn

    MTLynn Hall of Famer
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    The nfl is tax exempt and they use college football as their minor league system...

    The nfl and nba can have minor leagues for guys who want to get paid and don't want to go to school
     
    39 MTLynn, Oct 3, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
  40. RaiderDawg78

    RaiderDawg78 All American
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    I can’t wait for new recruit bobble head day. Sign with us and we will have Stud Linebacker Bobblehead day. We will give the first 10,000 fans bobble heads in your image. Of course, when we buy them at $10 each, since they will look like you, half the $10 goes to you, so you will get $5 each or $50,000. It’s legal and part of our licensing merchandise deal now. We do it for all our new signees.
     
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