FOOTBALL Hawaii Bowl: Middle Tennessee vs San Diego State (ESPN), 7PM (CT), Saturday, December 24, 2022
- Thread starter SpaceRaider
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Ya know, I think Stock thinks like I used to when it comes to business/jobs. I was raised the old fashioned way. My Dad retired from his company after 34yrs and still does contract work for them 10-15hrs a week. That's how it used to be. It was bad if you changed jobs. I stayed at a place for a decade I hated out of loyalty. I felt like it was bad to chsnge jobs. Finally couldnt take it amymore. Now I work for an amazing company and it improved my financial/career position by changing jobs.
I really think Stock views it that way. That he is a bad manager if someone from his staff leaves. That it is an accomplishment to have people for a decade. I used to brag as a manager having people that long. Now in a new company culture, I realize I was just holding them back.
New blood is not a bad thing at all, and change can be good.
I really think Stock views it that way. That he is a bad manager if someone from his staff leaves. That it is an accomplishment to have people for a decade. I used to brag as a manager having people that long. Now in a new company culture, I realize I was just holding them back.
New blood is not a bad thing at all, and change can be good.
Keep your eye on the transfer portal in the next several days. It may be interesting to see which way the door swings the most.
Bowl win adds to Blue Raider resume
In the increasingly tough and changing world of college football, what does winning a bowl game mean for a program? With all things considered, for Middle Tennessee State, their Hawaii Bowl triumph speaks volumes. The 25-23 triumph over a storied San Diego State program on December 24 was...
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It’s an indictment for these coaches that we have had occasional talent good enough to play in the NFL, but the line is consistently terrible unless we are beating up on the sisters of the poor.
If Polly or Mallory had any self respect, they would give up coaching & find jobs managing Play-It-Again or Academy sports. We would be better off if Tommy West and Brent Brock were gone too.
If Polly or Mallory had any self respect, they would give up coaching & find jobs managing Play-It-Again or Academy sports. We would be better off if Tommy West and Brent Brock were gone too.
Perception is realityBowl win adds to Blue Raider resume
In the increasingly tough and changing world of college football, what does winning a bowl game mean for a program? With all things considered, for Middle Tennessee State, their Hawaii Bowl triumph speaks volumes. The 25-23 triumph over a storied San Diego State program on December 24 was...
”Tweener school”
Not on the same level as the so called big boys
When all things are considered, this hard-fought victory is one that defines what the MTSU program has been about for the past 17 seasons.
We are Middle
As long as we continue to strive for 6 wins, these pieces will flourish. There is a modicum of truth to this piece and a little “kick the small team” cause it is easy.
We went 8-5 with back to back bowl victories. WKU has back to back bowl victories as well. No championships for them either. We are not changing anything. Our athletic leadership is doing their jobs according to the president and the standards of being a G5. Also, even if we went undefeated, we will never be considered on the level as the big boys. We ain't in the SEC. I'm over the constant condemning because their ain't sh!t we can do about it either way but watch. I don't like the BS we face but with 8 wins and back to back bowl game wins, you can't really dislike the situation we are in because yes, it can be a lot worse. We are imprisoned but we did have a good season. It simply is what it is.
Also, UTSA won 2 titles but no bowl wins. They came up short twice in my book. Winning CUSA is great but play another good team from another conference and get owned. Not a good look whatsoever.
Agreed. I want champs as much as anyone else. It is gonna matter more in a few years. But even with that, win a Champ and lose a bowl makes the champ mean less in my book. Especially losing the bowl to another conference champ.
I know this is gonna sound ludicrous but we contributed more to the conference than UTSA. We beat a top 25 and won our bowl game. UTSA did neither. At the end of the day, they lost to Troy and only put 12 on em. WKU played Troy better, Also, JMU should have gotten the chance to play Troy. They won the east and I think they could have gotten Troy if they had the shot.
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At the end of the day……
UTSA, UAB, and LaTech hung 40 on us.
And 35 by WKU…… for Homecoming.
The football season begins in September. Not mid-October.
But after 17 straight seasons of this, we still just accept it, the HC and staff got another free trip to the Bahamas or Hawaii for a half season of success and we wait til next year.
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At the end of the day, UTSA and UAB lost their bowl games. LaTech didn't even go to one. We did the same thing WKU did. We look better than all those teams right now except WKU. It don't matter as long as we finish strong which we did.
Both of these are true.
We absolutely ended on a high note. The JMU loss was bad to start but at least they were a good team thst should've played for a conf champ if not for ridiculous NCAA rules.
But at the end of the day, SDSU was our only win against a team with a winning record. Our other 6 wins (not counting FCS TSU which still had a losing record) were a combined 22-45. Our loses, 33-26. Both FBS only.
Our last two years which are great for recruiting, we are 15-11. Those 13 wins (again, counting FBS only) are combined 40-94. Loses 73-59.
We've only beat 3 FBS teams in the past two years that finished with a winning record. Marshall and then Toledo and SDSU in the bowls.
Right, and I'm not defending anything. i'm choosing to be positive with a locked in situation. It's either that or we just all quit being fans right now and walk away because the power/leadership ain't changin for a long time if ever. i've bitched and moaned plenty and am still pissed about the direction at the top but all in all, we have never won 2 bowl games back to back before nor have we beat a top 25 rankied team. For those reasons, I gotta give the team a pass this year. Yes the OL is a mess. Yes, we had a swiss cheese D when we played the 3 game gauntlet. However, we could have quit and walked but didn't. I gotta give the team full credit there.
What I was really trying to say is that all of these teams we compare ourselves to and wishing we were more like, didn't really do much more or as much as we did. UTSA won the conference twice but screwed both bowl games they played which nullifies any national momentum. We have more momentum than they do right now. UTSA made the conference look weak by their bowl play. We contributed the other way for both years. As far as the vs. winning team wins, yes, I agree totally. However, we also prevented 2 teams from bowling. At the end of the season, I'm tired of just being negative. What good does it do to keep pointing out all the obvious sh!t we all already know? We can't change it anyway. The team showed heart at the end and we ended up looking way better than a lot of other teams we want to be like. I hope they break dirt now and get the new facilities done.
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I honestly couldn't agree more. That is where I'm at. Facts are facts and I'm a numbers guy. But I'm also a glass half full guy. I'm not satisfied but I am happy and will make the most of it. Support BuildBlue and BRAA while still pushing for changes in certain areas, such as OL. Stock isn't going anywhere unless he chooses, so might as well give him all the support I can.
I look at it as we beat a team that had no business in the Top 25 at all. Miami only got worse as the season went along, so we need to stop saying a Top 25 team. If they ended the season in the Top 25, then sure.
I put it along the lines of beating an unranked opponent that ends up in the Top 25 at seasons end, do we claim we beat a Top 25 team or not?
I, personally, view a conference championship better than a bowl win. Being the champion of a conference ranks higher, to me, than beating a mediocre 7-5 team, whose fan base appears as irritated as this one.
I don't worry too much about the future in regard to the CFP and Bowls. Frankly, there is nothing we can do about it and will never be in the playoffs, as long as I'm alive. If the bowls are not going to mean as much, then I believe conference championships will matter more because we all know only one G-5 will get in, and not every year.
The P5 schools are working to separate themselves from the rest of the college football and keep all the money.
I don't worry too much about the future in regard to the CFP and Bowls. Frankly, there is nothing we can do about it and will never be in the playoffs, as long as I'm alive. If the bowls are not going to mean as much, then I believe conference championships will matter more because we all know only one G-5 will get in, and not every year.
The P5 schools are working to separate themselves from the rest of the college football and keep all the money.
Everyone else they claim at the time of. App State’s win over Michigan is always talked about because they were #5 at the time. No one cares how the rest of the season went. Personally I’m just happy we got a big win and a lot of publicity for it. That’s what those wins are all about.
It's all about timing. Miami and the two MWC teams Colorado State and San Diego State weren't having their best years by far. Ten or fifteen years from now there will be people reminiscing that season, because those three will be far better and more highly regarded than they actually are now. Me? I'd rather reminisce about conference Championships and the Raiders dominating their conference opponents and others on their schedule, including WKU. To me any season that doesn't include a victory over wku is not a success. And to that point, wku has made MT football and stockstill their b*tch. I am not reconciled to a football program for which that can be said.
Houston was in the top 25 when they beat UTSA and yet UH finished 8-5 un ranked. MIAMI was ranked and is a P5 team. UTSA's conference win only matters to UTSA fans. Because they lost their bowl game, the rest of the country could care less. Even Troy, with the title and bowl win isn't being talked about on radio or the networks so I would argue that G5 positioning is kinda meaningless. However, they finished strong and ranked. UTSA will not finished ranked.
I get your point & I'm not saying I agree with Stock's staffing decisions, but MT does use TE / H-backs pretty frequently.
From the outside looking in, I'd recruit a LOT different than it appears MT is doing. I'm not in the office. I'm not on the phone recruiting the recruits so I can't say what they're being told by prospects, coaches, etc...
But I can tell you that MT needs facilities bad. Right now, MT's facilities are behind. Having been in MT's facilities & having worked IN WKU's FB facilities, MT's facilities as they stand right now are WAY behind. This changes who & how you recruit.
BuildBlueNow will help
But with NIL, MT needs significant help. MT needs more than the Blue Raider Exchange where Businesses can reach out to players, they need a Collective that allows individuals to "pool" their money in a LLC that would provide $$$ to players.
P5 have been doing this for a few years and now, some G5 schools (including some in the CUSA) are doing it. MT needs this bad.
It's hard to recruit a 3 star kid with offers from Liberty and WKU with facilities from the Clinton administration (or older) and no Collective money coming in. Kids are gonna follow the $$$ (and who can blame them?).
A "G5" will make the playoffs every year in the new format. It is the 6th highest ranked conference champs in top 25. A G5 champ may be ranked 25th, but I don't see how they could leave out a 6th champ each year. Theoretically if the B12 or P12 is having a down year and their champ is ranked say 17th, and the SBC is 16th/AAC 15th, then there would be 2 "G5" teams in. The rankings will probably be manipulated for that not to happen (SoS Yada yada) but it is possible.
But conference championships are absolutely what will matter more going forward. The new system will take place the week ending December 21st, 2024. So playoffs will start before Christmas making those early bowl games mean even less. There most likely will be two bowls who come together to grab the 4 champs left out of the playoff. Rest will be noise.
It's why I've said these two years and this coming year are extremely important to win the bowls and be in the public eye in a positive way with positive momentum moving towards the new playoff era and to help make BuildBlue work.
It also is why scheduling is beyond important. Choosing the right $ games, the right regional P5/G5 opponents, and the right regional FCS. We were ranked 111/131 in SoS after our bowl win. UTSA was highest at 82. Only 4 CUSA were in the top 100. The conference as a whole needs to get with another G5 or P5 and create a scheduling agreement to help build resumes. We also have got to do better winning those games against +.500 opponents, which abso-freaking-lutely includes must win WKU.
Momentum and positivity is on our side right now and it must not be squandered or we will be left even further behind.
Some serious turd polishing going on in this thread
Is it hard to recruit against the Ohio Bobcats who went 10-4 this season?
Stuckstill recruits the best D II players he can find.
If you wanna get a chuckle go back and read the threads and posts immediately after the Homecoming loss. Especially some of the posts made by the turd polishers now.😂😂
So just walk away then. No solution. Just criticism. I have been pretty harsh this season with my criticism and I still feel that way. There is no hipocrisy here with me. However, I'm trying to be positive in a locked in situation because that's what it is. We either live with it or walk away. Constant negativity eats at my soul and it's already been a tough year in other aspects of my life. This sh!t is just a f'in game. I've buried people this year and have nearly lost others to suicide. I now feel It's silly to get upset over this sh!t. There is no one on here who has the cash to drive out these sandbaggers and they wouldn't spend it if they had it.
We win 8 and it ain't enough when other G5's that are applauded on here are doing basically the same thing. Go be a fan of those dudes. Memphis hasn't won back to back bowl games lately if ever. For a while (before 17), they were as bad at bowl games as we were. Now we are 3 of the last 4. They went 6-6 last year and 7-6 this year. Where are the pitchforks for their HC? I ain't seeing it.
I get it. we (and I) don't like Stock, Massaro or McPhee. Let's buy em out. Oh wait. Get my point? Keep coming back everyday bitching and it's still the same. We are in a fan prison of sorts. I'm just trying to see the somewhat empty glass half full. I know we weren't that awesome. We still won 8 which is better than 4 or 2. Even if we won 2 for the next 8 years, we'd still have Stock so what's the point in bitching? They obviously are not listening nor do they see this as an issue. Unless we get a billionaire involved, it's death til we do part with Stock and Co. Do we outlive them or let them outlive us? I guess that's also my point. I still want ot make that T shirt. LOL.
After looking at a lot of G5 team records today, I'm convinced more than ever that all G5's are pretty much the same. It doesn't matter what confrence you are in, you are only going so far anyway. Have a great year and your coach gets poached. Then it's a crap shoot on whether you will be on the same level. Look at Coastal. They are done. Total rebuild npw. Half of their best players hit the portal. Some stay on the rails. Ark st. was there for a minute. Now, they got butched. They would love 8 wins. Marshall fired Doc for under performance and the new guy isn't any better. No titles but won a bowl game. Just like us. Happy new year y'all.
I absolutely was one calling for heads then and after JMU. I've also mellowed out a bit since seeing the team and paying close attention to Stock in person. Also Lee has made a major impression on me online as well as in person.
Do I want Stock gone, yup. Am I 100% impressed with CM? Nope. Absolutely not with McPhee who I think really holds back the whole athletic dept. I have more issues with him than Stock or CM.
But the FACT is Stock isn't going anywhere. We don't have the booster/fan support to enact change. So me being negative Nancy will do nothing for anyone. And I'm not going to walk away. I'm not wired that way. I'd rather help with facilities and promoting and be a positive part of the changes.
I'll absolutely still call for staff changes and call out things but I refuse to be a "step away" or "focus on basketball" type of fan.
Part of the reason he has to recruit “D II” guys is the lack of NIL / collective support.
Stock needs to do better. He needs to be more aggressive.
But at the same time, it’s a changing landscape and MT has been playing chess with checkers (facilities, lack of NIL / collective, etc)
Do we need facilities? Yes. Do we need more NIL? Yes.
But the thing is - it's not impossible to win without them. I just watched TCU flatten Michigan and they are going to play for all the marbles. Where would TCU rank in budget, in NIL, in facilities compared with its peers? I doubt they're anywhere near the top 25 in any of those. They'd be lucky to rank in the top half of their conference in those things - yet they managed to win huge. Teams figure out a way to do more with less all the time all over the country - except us.
Now, no one is asking for a playoff spot. But a singular conference title - I simply can't imagine that the peer programs in CUSA are so far ahead that we couldn't have figured out a way to win 1 conference title in almost two decades.
This isn't the chicken or the egg scenario - you want to build NIL and facilities - you win and then capitalize on that by building a program and an enthusiastic fan base that wants to give and be a part of something special.
There's no doubt in my mind that if we'd traded results with WKU- 2 titles, ranked team, 5 new coach bumps, dozen+ NFL players - we'd have facilities, more money, a bigger fan base and we'd be heading to the Sunbelt right now.
Instead, we just sat around and complained and begged for people give money, gave them boring .500 seasons one after another, a leader that has the personality of mold, and no prospects of any sort of fan return on investment.
I do get the gallows humor of the whole thing - there's absolutely no way out of the Stock purgatory until probably the end of the decade at least - so might as well hope that the facilities somehow provide us with some sort of something or other. But as long as Stock's in charge - any money that goes from me into this program is the same as just flushing money down the toilet.
My only hope is that it's not so irretrievably broken and dead that when Stock eventually does leave, we can rebuild it. But my fear is that we're going to build these facilities, and you're going to get the same, low effort, 6-6 is the goal type football and more Stock.
That's an insult to mold...
Is there another school, anywhere, with a 17-year .500 coach?
Is there another school that has had the same president for the past 21 years? One who was politically appointed and was found guilty of sexual harassment?
Nothing will change with coach .500 until 7-wood is gone, but why is 7-wood still around? Does he have under the table perks that he can't live without?
would love to see more overcomers rather than a bunch of old men making excuses
Happy near year. I’ll be suprised if it isn’t more of the same.
Happy near year. I’ll be suprised if it isn’t more of the same.
Great points.
And, fwiw, like so many of you, I still believe it’s time for Stock to retire.
Stock had 17 years+ to win a championship and build the support necessary to provide a NLI exchange, collective, facilities, etc.
Leaders of EVERY walk and profession have an expiration date. A time when they are no longer effective leading their communities.
It’s great that he won the bowl game, but I’m not sold back to back bowl wins reignites the fan base. I’ve spoken with way too many fans who are just tired of Stock (for various reasons).
MT needs energy and a new voice. Someone who can find a way to win without resources while building up the resources MT needs to win.
But, with the contract, MT fans are stuck in no man’s land.
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Again, all of this is obvious and simply will never happen. The money train keeps rolling for Stock and Co. and the admin is quite happy. Rinse and repeat. Unless a billionaire shows up on the message board, reads years of our unhappy posts and decides to buy them all out, nothing is changing. LOL. What else would incentivize them to step down? Honor? LOL It is til death us do part. It's either keep stating the frustratingly obvious like a broken record, walk away or look for any silver lining possible. Those are the choices.
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