Stockstill's Buyout...a Tale of Misery

[Blueraider_Mike]

We need both good coach and a face for the program, someone who will help raise money, etc. In turn we need other coaches on the staff who will recruit.

Stock is a good coach but is non existent on the anything else.

 

[MTLynn]

Just throwing out a hypothetical here...if we hire a coach who has built a winner a lower level, that lower level would be OVC, etc. Would you be ok hiring Austin Peay's head coach like Charlotte did?

Yes... makes much more sense than hiring an unproven position coach

 

[MT01]

I thought we should've hire the current peay coach back when andy mccollum was finally given the boot...

Probably a good thing we didn't. His first year with a roster full of his recruits went 4-8 and he never had a winning season thereafter. Though he had a decent start there (with the previous regime's players), it's actually an example that perhaps disproves Lynn's theory that you should hire a proven winner at a lower level.

When we eventually do hire a new coach, it has to be someone who is highly thought of as an up and comer that can recruit, sell the program, be the face, and hopefully if he does all those things right can manage the game too. Which means if you get that person he won't be here long. But we have to start there regardless of whether he's a coordinator, a winning head coach at a lower level or a position coach. Personally, I think if CRS retired in the next year or two that Shafer would do well here. But I don't expect he will be on the staff next year. And we'll be looking for someone younger and cheaper.

 

[MTLynn]

Probably a good thing we didn't. His first year with a roster full of his recruits went 4-8 and he never had a winning season thereafter

Interesting to note:

* Louisiana–Lafayette vacated 22 wins from 2011 to 2014, including the 2011 and 2013 New Orleans Bowls and 2013 Sun Belt Conference co-championship, due to NCAA violations involving a former assistant.[5][6] Without the vacated wins, Louisiana went 9-4 in each season between 2011-2014.

I would hope he has learned his lesson, like Kermit, and will keep his program clean from now on.

 

[JohnDavidBlue]

Definitely. He would have been ideal.

Just throwing out a hypothetical here...if we hire a coach who has built a winner a lower level, that lower level would be OVC, etc. Would you be ok hiring Austin Peay's head coach like Charlotte did? With our facilities and lack of support, a successful coach in the Sun Belt isn't looking to "move up" to MTSU.

 

[JohnDavidBlue]

I believe that a school like Middle needs to be rotating coaches up the ladder or relieving of duties about every 4-6 years. No reason to lock up someone for life.

Which means if you get that person he won't be here long.

 

[crposton]

I believe that a school like Middle needs to be rotating coaches up the ladder or relieving of duties about every 4-6 years. No reason to lock up someone for life.

I prefer to make Middle a place where there is nothing "up the ladder" to rotate coaches to.

 

[Blueraider_Mike]

I prefer to make Middle a place where there is nothing "up the ladder" to rotate coaches to.

Do you really think this is realistic? We have a coach like this now and after 15 years it just feels old. Many G5 schools have done this and been successful - Boise, UCF, even WKU has done this.

 

[RaiderDawg78]

I prefer to make Middle a place where there is nothing "up the ladder" to rotate coaches to.

The average FBS HC coach made 2.67 million last year. The average SEC coach made 4.97 million. You can go 13-0 at MT and not play for a national championship or perhaps not even make a NY6 bowl game.


I want a coach that aspires for more than we can offer, and is so successful here, schools are want to pay him more than we can offer. It’s a sign of success at a G5 school.

 

[SigmaNuBlue]

I prefer to make Middle a place where there is nothing "up the ladder" to rotate coaches to.

Will never happen in football, just not how the business model works. Our only shot is basketball, and that isn't realistic either. Not too many Gregg Marshall's in the world. And he doesn't have to share an Athletic Dept budget with a football program.

I know it isn't a popular opinion, and maybe a discussion for another thread, but that is why I would be fine with pouring all of our resources in to men's and women's basketball and the baseball program. Programs that can compete on the national level. We will never move the needle in football.

 

[C-Bow]

I prefer to make Middle a place where there is nothing "up the ladder" to rotate coaches to.

I know it isn't a popular opinion, and maybe a discussion for another thread, but that is why I would be fine with pouring all of our resources in to men's and women's basketball and the baseball program. Programs that can compete on the national level. We will never move the needle in football.

I’m honestly of the same mindset. Have been for years.

 

[Blueraider_Mike]

I don't think we have to choose between FB and BB...we can build both.

 

[SigmaNuBlue]

I don't think we have to choose between FB and BB...we can build both.

Regarding football, build to what? How high do you think we can go?

 

[FranklinRaider315]

I know one thing. We won’t be taking the place of Memphis in the AAC on the hopes they get a P5 Conference invite. By the time the NCAA is finished with them and Penny they aren’t going anywhere but the probation house. The Wiseman $11,500 moving money payment is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[MTLynn]

Regarding football, build to what? How high do you think we can go?

MT can do anything Boise can do. Just need a coach who can do it

 

[RaiderDawg78]

Regarding football, build to what? How high do you think we can go?

Based solely on our upper administration, I sometimes wonder if we would be better off back in the OVC for football and doing exactly what you said.

 

[MTLynn]

Based solely on our upper administration, I sometimes wonder if we would be better off back in the OVC for football and doing exactly what you said.

Maybe that is McPhee's plan

 

[RaiderDawg78]

Maybe that is McPhee's plan

He is executing it to perfection. Too much expectation at the FBS level....

 

[mtfblue]

He is executing it to perfection. Too much expectation at the FBS level....

Heck, you are still behind most FBS programs in FB Facilities within a 8 hour radius.

 

[RaiderDawg78]

I did see Lane Kiffin is a serious candidate at Arkansas. He was quoted last year saying he was very close to being their coach in the past. Wonder what Lane’s buyout is at FAU?

Kiffin, Leach, Norvell & some mystery 4th coach are leading the search in Fayetteville. My guess would be someone crazy like Hugh Freeze.

 

[Blueraider_Mike]

Regarding football, build to what? How high do you think we can go?

I am not concerned about how high...I love FB and I love MT FB even more. I loved it in 1985, my first season at MT as a college student and I still love it now as a 55 year old man. Now would I like a path to the NC, sure, but when we moved up in 1999 we were not thinking NC.

MT is my team, end of story.

 

[MTTim]

I know one thing. We won’t be taking the place of Memphis in the AAC on the hopes they get a P5 Conference invite. By the time the NCAA is finished with them and Penny they aren’t going anywhere but the probation house. The Wiseman $11,500 moving money payment is just the tip of the iceberg.

I would have thought Memphis would have been more cautious when hiring Penny. The last thing they needed was the NCAA snooping around.

 

[SigmaNuBlue]

I am not concerned about how high...I love FB and I love MT FB even more. I loved it in 1985, my first season at MT as a college student and I still love it now as a 55 year old man. Now would I like a path to the NC, sure, but when we moved up in 1999 we were not thinking NC.

MT is my team, end of story.

I also love MT FB...I have no other team. And if we were to go back to the OVC, I would still be a JRF on Saturdays. One thing KD said that always stuck with me was, "To be a national program, you have to act like one.". Regarding the football program, do we act like one? We all know that answer. The current college football landscape isn't designed for us to be a national program. UCF proved that a couple years ago.

The question I'm trying to ask is...Long term, is it worth it to keep giving the lion's share of the money to a program that will never move the needle on a national scale? We can't even solidify a regional footprint.

We got a taste of that when we beat Michigan St. And I want it again.

 

[AustinLewis]

I also love MT FB...I have no other team. And if we were to go back to the OVC, I would still be a JRF on Saturdays. One thing KD said that always stuck with me was, "To be a national program, you have to act like one.". Regarding the football program, do we act like one? We all know that answer. The current college football landscape isn't designed for us to be a national program. UCF proved that a couple years ago.

The question I'm trying to ask is...Long term, is it worth it to keep giving the lion's share of the money to a program that will never move the needle on a national scale? We can't even solidify a regional footprint.

We got a taste of that when we beat Michigan St. And I want it again.

I would argue that UCF and Boise are national programs (national in the sense they gained national respect for their success).

I also believe - with the right management and leadership - MT could follow their path. Instead, MT is mired in mediocrity. There's little hope for anything better than 6-6 / 7-5 because of : 1) scheduling, 2) recruiting, and 3) player development.

 

[SpaceRaider]

I would argue that UCF and Boise are national programs (national in the sense they gained national respect for their success).

I also believe - with the right management and leadership - MT could follow their path. Instead, MT is mired in mediocrity. There's little hope for anything better than 6-6 / 7-5 because of : 1) scheduling, 2) recruiting, and 3) player development.

My three would be broke out like this

1. Coaching
2. Athletic administration
3. University Administration

All three need to clear those occupants out, pressure wash every last corner of those environs to remove the stench of mediocrity, and bring in energetic, hard nosed, personnel to fill those leadership openings

 

[Blueraider_Mike]

I would argue that UCF and Boise are national programs (national in the sense they gained national respect for their success).

I also believe - with the right management and leadership - MT could follow their path. Instead, MT is mired in mediocrity. There's little hope for anything better than 6-6 / 7-5 because of : 1) scheduling, 2) recruiting, and 3) player development.

4) Fan base and giving

 

[SigmaNuBlue]

4) Fan base and giving

Yep...Boise St has a strong fan base (and I'm assuming donations). Who is there biggest competition? Do they have a UT or Bama 3 hours down the road? Do they have an NFL team 30 minutes away? I want what ya'll want. Just frustrated I guess. At times, it feels like we are trying to sell Sounds tickets with Yankee stadium right up the road.

 

[MTFNBY5]

Yep...Boise St has a strong fan base (and I'm assuming donations). Who is there biggest competition? Do they have a UT or Bama 3 hours down the road? Do they have an NFL team 30 minutes away? I want what ya'll want. Just frustrated I guess. At times, it feels like we are trying to sell Sounds tickets with Yankee stadium right up the road.

Damn good analogy!!! Location, location, location

We are in a terrible geographic location to grow a $#&-major athletic program. It's gonna take a really creative and unique plan to have any chance of overcoming the location obstacle. Wish I knew the solution.

 

[mtfblue]

Damn good analogy!!! Location, location, location

We are in a terrible geographic location to grow a $#&-major athletic program. It's gonna take a really creative and unique plan to have any chance of overcoming the location obstacle. Wish I knew the solution.

So how did UCF do it, they have UF 1 hr away, 3 NFL teams withn 3 hours, USF 1 hr, FSU and Miami within 3 hrs, just have to be creative

 

[MTFNBY5]

So how did UCF do it, they have UF 1 hr away, 3 NFL teams withn 3 hours, USF 1 hr, FSU and Miami within 3 hrs, just have to be creative

Perhaps it's because they are the primary university in the 4th largest Fla. city with an area population of 2.5 million.
Perhaps it's because they have the largest on-campus enrollment in the U. S.
Perhaps it's because they get the largest portion of the college sports coverage in their print and electronic media.
Perhaps they get a large portion of corporate donations to sports entities in the immediate area.

I could go on.

Orlando to Gainsville is 1 hr, 45, min. +/- but I'm not one to quibble

 

[MTLynn]

So how did UCF do it, they have UF 1 hr away, 3 NFL teams withn 3 hours, USF 1 hr, FSU and Miami within 3 hrs, just have to be creative

winning 10 to 12 games each year.... 6-6, 7-5 or 8-4 doesn't cut it

 

[mtfblue]

winning 10 to 12 games each year.... 6-6, 7-5 or 8-4 doesn't cut it

I lived in Orlando when they were 6-6, 5-6 and 4-8. They made a decision to be the best and invested. The same can be done here. The excuse because of entertainment competition gets old. it's either you want to to do it or you don't. There game atmosphere was no different than what MT has now. New AD and boom, the athletic department takes off.

 

[MT01]

UCF is a bit unique because of it's size and fact that they have professional degrees. So, not only are they able to tap students while they are in school, they have a broader set of alumni to tap which a greater chance that they will have more bigger donors. But they are less unique to us than Boise is as Boise has not significant competition aside from Washington St.

Being in Florida in the center of the state close to all the talent doesn't hurt.

But the bottom line is they made a commitment. They built a new stadium (and did it the right way), funded athletics, coaches, recruiting, marketing, etc., and did the work. That's the bottom line. It can be done here. We just don't.

 

[MT01]

They also don't have a state that attempts to undermine their every move. That might be the biggest difference.

22 UCF graduate programs are ranked among the top 100 by U.S. News & World Report.

Could ever see THEC allowing MT to have that type of attribute as pasted above??

F'n backwards ass state.

 

[BRaiderDave]

They also don't have a state that attempts to undermine their every move. That might be the biggest difference.

22 UCF graduate programs are ranked among the top 100 by U.S. News & World Report.

Could ever see THEC allowing MT to have that type of attribute as pasted above??

F'n backwards ass state.

Hell, we can't even get a law school when it falls in our laps.

 

[MTLynn]

Hell, we can't even get a law school when it falls in our laps.

The state wouldn't let MT have Nashville School of Law so why would they let MT have another?

I think TSU gets first dibs on any upper-level education improvements in the mid-state and MT can improve all of the lower-level studies it wants.

The end result, I believe, is a full merger with TSU in 20, 30 or maybe 50 years down the road. TSU undergrad in Murfreesboro, and TSU post-grad in Nashville.

 

[TrueBlue147]

TSU and Tennessee Tech have engineering schools. ETSU has a medical school. We have a beer making major. Seems fair to me. As long as McPhee is here we will have nothing but obscure degrees and useless partnerships with China. Also, getting our own board has turned out to be a disappointment. It seems like they either have no power or no will to push for anything better at MT. They just rubber stamp the McPhee agenda.

 

[MTLynn]

TSU and Tennessee Tech have engineering schools. ETSU has a medical school. We have a beer making major. Seems fair to me.

Don't forget, MT and Meharry have that ever so important fast-track program!

link:
Governor praises MT, Meharry fast-track program to provide more rural doctors

 

[Mr Mediocrity]

Don't forget, MT and Meharry have that ever so important fast-track program!

link:
Governor praises MT, Meharry fast-track program to provide more rural doctors

 

[Mr Mediocrity]

Here's a unique way out of the stock dilema. Ask big stock to sell out at a drastic cut with the provision that we hire little stock as HC Cost us a lot less and can't be any worse off, then fire CM