Our Most Prominent Tradition

[MT01]

No one loses to new FBS teams the way do. It’s THE middle tennessee tradition.

Question. How many schools wouldn’t fire the head coach on Sunday (or in this case Thursday) after this?

 

[MidTennMtneer]

1 that wouldn't.

And 132 that would.

 

[RaiderDoug]

No one loses to new FBS teams the way do. It’s THE middle tennessee tradition.

Question. How many schools wouldn’t fire the head coach on Sunday (or in this case Thursday) after this?

This situation that we find ourselves in is so bizarre. And I cannot recall anything similar in 28 years of following this sport as closely as I do.

I cannot find a single other example of a coach who's been at a place longer, who's had virtually no success, who's relationship with the fan base is non-existent, under who's watch the program has essentially atrophied into an embarrassment.

The only thing I can think of is that there was a deliberate decision to focus on APR, Graduation Rate, and keeping things tight off the field rather than athletic success.

There's 7 coaches in the NCAA who's been at their program since before 2010. Here's their winning %

1 - .621
2 - .672
3 - .678
4 - .505
5 - .618
6 - .802
7 - .800

You know which one is Stockstill. I'll add that all but Stockstill have won a conference championship. All but Stockstill have had top 25 ranked seasons. The closest one to our guy - .618 - is at a service academy and is winning at over a 10% higher clip.


This program operates so far outside the curve of normal athletic department behavior - it's absolutely mind blowing that we're in this position.

 

[MT01]

I’ve looked at this too and I think I posted it here a year or two ago. The only remotely comp I could find was Glen Mason but even then it was two schools. Nine at Kansas and 10 at Minnesota. He’s the only one I’ve been able to find that stayed double digit years at a school while basically playing .500 football and never winning a conference title. But again it was only 10 years at one school. Watson Brown at UAB for 12 would be a potential comparison.

Stock has almost doubled that time. This is quite literally the most unprecedented story in the archives of college football coaching history.

 

[sWiley]

Why us ? Why does it have to be my school and who I cheer for ? Why can’t we just have a normal athletics environment ?

 

[MidTennMtneer]

I think @AustinLewis has gone along these lines, but I really think the above on academics nailed it.

I really truly feel that McP had zero idea how much athletics matter. Winning matters. Sure there was $ involved but not to the extent it is now. I really don't think he saw any of this coming. I would think CM should have. And maybe he tried to fix it and it didn't do any good. IDK. This isn't something that happened overnight so it amazes me it has gotten to this point.

McP should've seen it earlier, CM should've too and pushed harder if he did. Maybe that's one reason he brought Lee in. Knowing freshness was needed so he did what he could.

But then you have the contract. CM signed it. Did he support it? All that. So many ?s

And Stock. I've been in the position of having to move on from friends in the name of business. It hurt. But over time we all were in better places in business and emotionally. If he really wants to get better, you do what is best for the business.

I've said it before. Just because you are good, and could be worse, doesn't mean you don't try to be great. I don't expect to turn in to the next UCF and move up. Or even the next Boise. But I do expect champs and rankings more often than, oh....never.

 

[DisgruntledAlum]

Just a sad and pathetic situation for everyone that loves this university.

 

[AustinLewis]

I think @AustinLewis has gone along these lines, but I really think the above on academics nailed it.

I really truly feel that McP had zero idea how much athletics matter. Winning matters. Sure there was $ involved but not to the extent it is now. I really don't think he saw any of this coming. I would think CM should have. And maybe he tried to fix it and it didn't do any good. IDK. This isn't something that happened overnight so it amazes me it has gotten to this point.

Everything I've seen / heard from MTSU (including comments from McPhee himself) tells me McPhee just doesn't get athletics.

He didn't understand the importance of facilities until they got left out during the last round of realignment.

McP should've seen it earlier, CM should've too and pushed harder if he did. Maybe that's one reason he brought Lee in. Knowing freshness was needed so he did what he could.

But then you have the contract. CM signed it. Did he support it? All that. So many ?s

And Stock. I've been in the position of having to move on from friends in the name of business. It hurt. But over time we all were in better places in business and emotionally. If he really wants to get better, you do what is best for the business.

I've said it before. Just because you are good, and could be worse, doesn't mean you don't try to be great. I don't expect to turn in to the next UCF and move up. Or even the next Boise. But I do expect champs and rankings more often than, oh....never.

There's only so much "pushing" you can do until those being pushed are willing to "give."

When I was publisher for GoMiddle & more involved with recruiting coverage, I remember recruits talking about seeing plans for facility upgrades. This was 10+ years ago. Those plans never came through.

And I have a hard time believing Massaro - with ALL his experience in college athletics - didn't realize he needed to upgrade facilities. He knew facilities were important.

But he can draw up plans. He can find a mechanism to raise the $$$. But ALL of that work is meaningless if the university president doesn't want to sign off.

Like Stock or hate Stock, McPhee's unwillingness to invest in football hamstrung football. It's probably affected recruiting players, recruiting coaches, and investing in the program in ways other peer schools have. This has hurt Stock.

That said, Stock has made some decisions that have hamstrung himself & held the program back. I'm not proclaiming his innocence. Just giving some background context.

 

[RaiderDoug]

I’ve looked at this too and I think I posted it here a year or two ago. The only remotely comp I could find was Glen Mason but even then it was two schools. Nine at Kansas and 10 at Minnesota. He’s the only one I’ve been able to find that stayed double digit years at a school while basically playing .500 football and never winning a conference title. But again it was only 10 years at one school. Watson Brown at UAB for 12 would be a potential comparison.

Stock has almost doubled that time. This is quite literally the most unprecedented story in the archives of college football coaching history.

And at least with Minnesota and Kansas, you can kind of see that those programs have a ceiling relative to their in conference competition. Neither of them are ever going to have the resources or the infrastructure of the Ohio States, Texas's, or Oklahoma's that they were competiting with in the B12 and B10.

But MTSU has, at least until recently, the biggest budget in the conference. Back when I cared to look these things up, we had the biggest fan base attendance-wise in the Belt when we were there. We've had the facilities discussion, and while I acknowledge it's a limitation - somehow, many other schools with facilities that pale compared to their peers somehow find a way to have success.

Kansas and Minnesota go into every season with one hand tied behind their backs. At MTSU, there's nothing that you need that would prevent a good coach from winning at least one conference title every 10 years.

 

[RaiderDoug]

Everything I've seen / heard from MTSU (including comments from McPhee himself) tells me McPhee just doesn't get athletics.

He didn't understand the importance of facilities until they got left out during the last round of realignment.


There's only so much "pushing" you can do until those being pushed are willing to "give."

When I was publisher for GoMiddle & more involved with recruiting coverage, I remember recruits talking about seeing plans for facility upgrades. This was 10+ years ago. Those plans never came through.

And I have a hard time believing Massaro - with ALL his experience in college athletics - didn't realize he needed to upgrade facilities. He knew facilities were important.

But he can draw up plans. He can find a mechanism to raise the $$$. But ALL of that work is meaningless if the university president doesn't want to sign off.

Like Stock or hate Stock, McPhee's unwillingness to invest in football hamstrung football. It's probably affected recruiting players, recruiting coaches, and investing in the program in ways other peer schools have. This has hurt Stock.

That said, Stock has made some decisions that have hamstrung himself & held the program back. I'm not proclaiming his innocence. Just giving some background context.

If they're all just victims of McPhee's lack of desire and vision, why are they still here?

Certainly, anyone with any ambition in any field of endeavor would have left this shitshow long ago. Yet, they're still here. When they just decided to go along, they became complicit in this charade.

But at some point, we have to look around and really think - how bad is it? It's not like we're making our players go without helmets.

No one is demanding an Alabama like run. There's no way you can tell me that this program is so underfunded and under-resourced that a competent coach couldn't find a way to win at least one conference championship in 20 years.

Look at someone like Iowa State. Somehow, they figured out a way to win a B12 with behemoths like Texas and OU. Wake Forest somehow managed to win an ACC title with Clemson in the same conference. Somehow, Utah has won 2 straight P12 conference titles with an overall budget that's in the bottom half of that conference.

Take Iowa State - i'm willing to bet no small amount of money that the resource/facility gap that exists between them and Texas is bigger than the gap that exists between us and WKU. Yet, they found a way.

 

[FranklinRaider315]

I’m not really a conspiracy theorist but I did get to thinking about the “commitment to mediocrity” when 6-6 and bowl eligible became the standard for us.
Our conference’s low to mid level bowl eligible teams usually get “sentenced” to Hawaii or The Bahamas. Think about that for a minute.

These people have been getting free vacations a bunch of years.

 

[blueraider315]

We all know that the Athletic department read these boards, or they used to. Someone does. We called it years ago about facilities, bells and whistles, and nothing happened. I get that we are not in the thick of things, but perception is reality. They do expect different results, but are content on doing the same things year in and year out.

There is just no life in this program any more. Not football. WBB is very consistent every year, MBB is up and down, but I would say consistent.

We just expect more because we can see that we are not at our ceiling. If we are, in the eyes of leadership, then admit that and let us all move on so we don't expect more.

 

[MidTennMtneer]

WBB is a great example. Until the last few years the sport overall wasn't super popular. Even before it started growing nationwide we were leading the conference in attendance. That program has major fan support.

It absolutely helps that Insell is a local boy but he also is more personable to the general public than Stock. From what I've seen anyway.

But it proves the whole if you build it they will come mantra. We've excelled at a sport and it gets support.

 

[AustinLewis]

If they're all just victims of McPhee's lack of desire and vision, why are they still here?

Certainly, anyone with any ambition in any field of endeavor would have left this shitshow long ago. Yet, they're still here. When they just decided to go along, they became complicit in this charade.

That's a fair question.

There were reports Massaro was a finalist for the GaState AD job almost 10 years ago. At Massaro's age / experience, there's only so many places you can go. Further, once you've sat in "the chair" and been the guy "in charge", it can be real hard to choose to be the asst AD at another program.

Re : Stock.

IMO, perhaps Stock wants to be MT's Bobby Bowden (right or wrong). Or perhaps the other reason is that Stock isn't good enough to get hired away (as most expected he would in 2009/2010) and he's not good enough to elevate the program.

Just my two cents.

But at some point, we have to look around and really think - how bad is it? It's not like we're making our players go without helmets.

No one is demanding an Alabama like run. There's no way you can tell me that this program is so underfunded and under-resourced that a competent coach couldn't find a way to win at least one conference championship in 20 years.

Look at someone like Iowa State. Somehow, they figured out a way to win a B12 with behemoths like Texas and OU. Wake Forest somehow managed to win an ACC title with Clemson in the same conference. Somehow, Utah has won 2 straight P12 conference titles with an overall budget that's in the bottom half of that conference.

Take Iowa State - i'm willing to bet no small amount of money that the resource/facility gap that exists between them and Texas is bigger than the gap that exists between us and WKU. Yet, they found a way.

All fair points.

As I've said in other posts / areas, facilities follow success.

But, to your point, MT desperately needs someone who can infuse some energy & breathe life into the program.