MWC getting blown up

[AustinLewis]

Yup.

And it's even worse now.

And Mason could have just kept his mouth shut. Nobody told him he had to explicitly state that the situation was a rebuild or not a rebuild. He volunteered that information and I think he believed it, doubling down on the whole good bones thing and what not.

But Mason (and other coaches) are in a no-win situation when asked about the program.

If they say "no, roster is terrible" is really bad PR & can be deflating for a team

If they say "roster is incredible" it begs the question : "why did they fire the previous HC?"

He's not wrong...the bones are there. But the injuries have exposed the lack of depth. Would have exposed the lack of depth for Stock (if it happened to him too).

 

[subkyle]

I don't even believe the everything else is 5%. Closer to zero than five.

I think the other sports matter a little more at our level. I agree it’s closer to zero in the SEC Big10, but I think a strong overall athletic program has a bit of weight in the non power conferences

 

[MT01]

I think the other sports matter a little more at our level. I agree it’s closer to zero in the SEC Big10, but I think a strong overall athletic program has a bit of weight in the non power conferences

If it did, MT wouldn't be in C-USA. The fact that we're here is the evidentiary proof Olympic sports are irrelevant in this equation. If anything it's the opposite of what you said. The AD at Memphis has said they've been told they need to improve their Olympic sports if they want interest from the ACC or Big 12. Regardless, it's such a small percentage of the equation it's almost irrelevant for everyone.

 

[DisgruntledAlum]

my point is UTEP makes sense, but as things start to happen. Moving to the AAC, SBC or MAC is futile for MT. The TV money for G's will level off and most will be what in what. If the school president's would get out the way, you could get South, Mid south, Midwest, Eastern, SW and West G conference. MT has to clean-up 15 years of stagnant growth. MTis better of in CUSA as it should grow into a rising program that can win the conference and play for n the last spot. Massaro needs to learn how to schedule, FCS and 3 regional G5 games, for get playing the power schools and learn to build a fan base. You would and could make more from those games than getting beat up by Power teams.

I agree. It may hurt on the front end, but if MT can buid a winning program, then the other eth fans will probably come.

It would start out like the Predators, if you remember when they started. Most sellouts were due to other fans coming in for a visit. All those kids that were there with their parents are now adults with season tickets and bringing their families. Attendance is dramatically different than the first 10-12 years. Not saying it would take that long, but it could work.

 

[MTFAN61]

My analogy for MT Athletics trying to change conferences is like the Nashville Sounds jumping from AA to AAA in baseball.
I look at the G5 & FCS as the equivalent of A, AA. & AAA baseball. With the P4 making up the Pro's.
AAA could be seen as the PAC, AAC, & Sunbelt. AA the rest of G5 including MT, & the FCS making up A.
For years the Sounds wanted to make the jump from AA to AAA because it felt like a step closer to the Pro's. When they finally made the jump it felt like a big deal to Nashville & Middle Tennessee. But that quickly wore off because to the world the Sounds were still playing minor league ball.
No matter what scrambling any G5 or FCS schools do it doesn't really matter. To the world we're still minor league. No matter how much money Texas St, JMU, Liberty or the rest of G5 spend knocking on the door the P4 aren't letting them in to their house. Now thanks to the NCAA we are just like the Sounds & the rest of minor league baseball, a glorified farm league.
Recommendation to FCS (Single A) schools, stay where you're at. It's more financially feasible. Jumping to the equivalent of AA or AAA ball in football no longer really matters. To the world you're still in the minor leagues. And while the Pro's will be glad to take some of your eggs, they're never going to let us in the hen house to roost with them.

 

[MT01]

My analogy for MT Athletics trying to change conferences is like the Nashville Sounds jumping from AA to AAA in baseball.
I look at the G5 & FCS as the equivalent of A, AA. & AAA baseball. With the P4 making up the Pro's.
AAA could be seen as the PAC, AAC, & Sunbelt. AA the rest of G5 including MT, & the FCS making up A.
For years the Sounds wanted to make the jump from AA to AAA because it felt like a step closer to the Pro's. When they finally made the jump it felt like a big deal to Nashville & Middle Tennessee. But that quickly wore off because to the world the Sounds were still playing minor league ball.
No matter what scrambling any G5 or FCS schools do it doesn't really matter. To the world we're still minor league. No matter how much money Texas St, JMU, Liberty or the rest of G5 spend knocking on the door the P4 aren't letting them in to their house. Now thanks to the NCAA we are just like the Sounds & the rest of minor league baseball, a glorified farm league.
Recommendation to FCS (Single A) schools, stay where you're at. It's more financially feasible. Jumping to the equivalent of AA or AAA ball in football no longer really matters. To the world you're still in the minor leagues. And while the Pro's will be glad to take some of your eggs, they're never going to let us in the hen house to roost with them.

Yes, which is why the MAC was not a good choice for us. Financially, we are better off for that decision.

However, this is not universal. Memphis and USF are probably going to be the last schools that get that opportunity. We probably never had any chance no matter what we did but this University has squandered just about every athletic and academic opportunity its had to be better than it was two decades ago. Not only are we not better than we were 25 years ago, we are worse in just about every facet.

Back to the point about conferences, the place I disagree with you on about this is that it does matter where you are and who you're with even if you're still minor league. Let's use your Sounds analogy as an example. Remember when they were in the Pacific Coast League. Even though they had Memphis in its division it's other two division teams were in Nebraska and Iowa. And then the rest of their schedule included 12 or 13 clubs west of the Missippi most in the Mountain or Pacific Time zones. Today all of their opponents are in the Eastern or Central Time Zones. Big difference.

The point is where we are right now is about the worst its been for us since the early days of the Sun Belt. Today the Sun Belt has strong leadership, is more regionally confined, and has schools that share common objectives. That's where we belong. The AAC is not the place we need to be. We need to focus all of our energy getting back to the Sun Belt, getting back to some of our regional rivalries and getting back to being the best we can be there. C-USA has been a disaster for us. Now that UTEP is gone there isn't a single member from 1.0 and now it's far flung, discombobulated tribe of of institutions that aren't really focused on the same things. This league is a mess now. Just once I would like to see us find ourselves in a league with a good commissioner. From the OVC to Sun Belt 1.0 to C-USA, we've never had a good league leadership.

 

[Sommy]

Even UTEP and potentially Tarleton State want nothing to do with CUSA. It’s a complete embarrassment of a conference. If you can’t find Tarleton St. on a map, how about Kennesaw or Jax State? Pathetic and if we stay in CUSA it will likely end my interest in this program.

We need to be pleading with other conferences to take us. If we are stuck in CUSA it will be our death sentence as a program ! I truly believe that. The gap between us and even G5 will be too much to ever overcome in terms of $$$; reputation, fan interest, ability to attract players AND coaches, media interest. We will NEVER have a chance to right this thing.

CUSA is the Titanic ! Iceberg ahead Plead and beg with anyone to take us or it’s over. We don’t have much to offer except “potential” of a good market, but MT needs to sell its soul at this stage or we are toast.

My preference:
1-AAC
2-SBC
3-MWC
4-MAC

 

[MT01]

Why would you want to be in a league with Rice, Tulsa, and Tulane (if they don't leave), as well as Temple, UTSA, Army, and Navy?

We have virtually nothing in common with a vast majority of that league. We belong in the SBC.

 

[sWiley]

Even UTEP and potentially Tarleton State want nothing to do with CUSA. It’s a complete embarrassment of a conference. If you can’t find Tarleton St. on a map, how about Kennesaw or Jax State? Pathetic and if we stay in CUSA it will likely end my interest in this program.

We need to be pleading with other conferences to take us. If we are stuck in CUSA it will be our death sentence as a program ! I truly believe that. The gap between us and even G5 will be too much to ever overcome in terms of $$$; reputation, fan interest, ability to attract players AND coaches, media interest. We will NEVER have a chance to right this thing.

CUSA is the Titanic ! Iceberg ahead Plead and beg with anyone to take us or it’s over. We don’t have much to offer except “potential” of a good market, but MT needs to sell its soul at this stage or we are toast.

My preference:
1-AAC
2-SBC
3-MWC
4-MAC

I know it can be hard to see and accept, but we are right where we belong at this time. Our administration and community has basically ignored our football program for the last 15 years. You simply can't do that and expect your peers to take you seriously.

Maybe after we get all our facilities built, win some championships, and get some support from the local community then we can expect other conferences to take us seriously.

 

[Sommy]

I know it can be hard to see and accept, but we are right where we belong at this time. Our administration and community has basically ignored our football program for the last 15 years. You simply can't do that and expect your peers to take you seriously.

Maybe after we get all our facilities built, win some championships, and get some support from the local community then we can expect other conferences to take us seriously.

Yes, I agree we are where we belong but the school and fans deserve better leadership and deserve something better. We don’t have much to offer, with the exception of a potentially great market once McPhee and Massaro move along we have a shot. They can’t be far away from retiring.

BUT - if we wait, it’s over. Better facilities and athletic success could take 5+years, by then the landscape has already been determined and we won’t even have a shot at a second tier subdivision. The gap will be too far apart. With the break between major conferences and second tier happening right now, we have to find a spot now or it’s over for us long term. I don’t ever seeing us having a chance to build it up if we wait.

 

[Sommy]

I think in terms of market we line up with Rice, Tulsa, UAB, North Texas, UTSA, very well. All close to major cities with potential, but not the big school in the area. All would be very similar. They just have better leadership, but that easily could be MT.

This is our competitive set, not Kennesaw and Jax State.

 

[MT01]

I had not visited the Sun Belt board ever since we left over ten years ago. So I visited that message board today and there was a poll in one thread

Who do you want to see in the SBC if Texas State leaves?​
FIU​		2​	1.85%​
Liberty​		7​	6.48%​
Louisiana Tech​		17​	15.74%​
Middle Tennessee​		3​	2.78%​
Sam Houston State​		2​	1.85%​
Western Kentucky​		56​	51.85%​
Missouri State​		9​	8.33%​
Delaware​		12​	11.11%​

Western will be in the Sun Belt in 2026 NLT '27. We'll be playing Tarleton.

Smith and McPhee have destroyed this University's athletics program. They have literally done everything wrong. Meanwhile, wkcc is doing everything right. Hell, they can even create the most ridiculous helmet and get all kinds of attention and kudos for it. They understand the importance of winning, not accepting mediocrity, and the brand. All things our leadership is clueless about.

I'm not convinced we survive this as Division 1. Even if there is a split, I'm not convinced we're in the second tier division they have screwed this up so much. We may be back in what is FCS -- that is if the state doesn't cut our FB program all together at some point in the future. I give our FB a 50/50 chance of surviving failed leadership that is apparently unremovable. By 2035 if not sooner, C-USA will not exist, which puts us in a precarious position. I'm so disheartened with what they have done to this university - it's why I'm still not giving a penny to it.

That said, with a change finally occuring in the football program, I'm ending my self imposed exile. I will be back on campus for an MT sporting event, for the first time in 2,145 days, one week from today. I look forward to seeing many of you I have not seen in several years.

 

[zreed]

I think in terms of market we line up with Rice, Tulsa, UAB, North Texas, UTSA, very well. All close to major cities with potential, but not the big school in the area. All would be very similar. They just have better leadership, but that easily could be MT.

This is our competitive set, not Kennesaw and Jax State.

Kennesaw State has a significantly larger enrollment than we do, much larger in fact than all of those schools apart from UNT. Kennesaw is also closer to Atlanta than MT is to Nashville or UNT is to Dallas.

The only real commonality between Kennesaw and JSU is the recent FBS move.

 

[MidTennMtneer]

 

[MTFAN61]

View embedded media

I don't see these MAC teams moving to the new Mountain West.

 

[MidTennMtneer]

I don't see these MAC teams moving to the new Mountain West.

I saw somewhere that supposedly Toledo & NIU reached out to the MWC. Football only of course and just drop other sports to MVC or something. Rationale being the MWC gets $3-4m for full time, say $1.5-2 for football only. Still more than the barely $800k they get now for all sports.

MAC/CUSA as one 22 team super league with north/south divisions?

 

[DisgruntledAlum]

I saw somewhere that supposedly Toledo & NIU reached out to the MWC. Football only of course and just drop other sports to MVC or something. Rationale being the MWC gets $3-4m for full time, say $1.5-2 for football only. Still more than the barely $800k they get now for all sports.

MAC/CUSA as one 22 team super league with north/south divisions?

Be interesting to see what the MWC deal is when it's renegotiated, I think I heard in '26.

It' will still be more than the MAC and CUSA though.

 

[BRaiderDave]

I know I'll catch hell for this but I really don't care. If the MAC loses Toledo and NIU, we need to hook up with WKU and offer a package deal and wrangle a MAC invite. Just my opinion. Wail away at me......

 

[AustinLewis]

I know I'll catch hell for this but I really don't care. If the MAC loses Toledo and NIU, we need to hook up with WKU and offer a package deal and wrangle a MAC invite. Just my opinion. Wail away at me......

Out of curiosity, why would MT pursue MAC now (after losing their 2 of their current top programs) when MT turned down MAC a few years back?

UTEP is gone (or will be). And hopefully UNM / NMSU can let bygones be bygones & go MWC.

 

[blue rai]

I know I'll catch hell for this but I really don't care. If the MAC loses Toledo and NIU, we need to hook up with WKU and offer a package deal and wrangle a MAC invite. Just my opinion. Whale away at me......

We had that offer on the table 3 years ago and walked away..I don’t think we relished late night games in western Michigan in Nov and Dec. CUSA paid us some big bucks to stay and I think that helped with the buyout?

 

[sWiley]

Out of curiosity, why would MT pursue MAC now (after losing their 2 of their current top programs) when MT turned down MAC a few years back?

UTEP is gone (or will be). And hopefully UNM / NMSU can let bygones be bygones & go MWC.

We would have missed out on a ton of revenue by leaving then from all the schools that left.

We've since collected that revenue along with extra NCAA credits that should be expiring soon from our victories 7ish years ago.

It makes more financial sense to go to the MAC now.

With that being said, I would never sign a GOR with them and I would not lock into any long-term type of situation. Probably just better off staying in CUSA at this time and angling for something with more regional games. In the end I don't think it really matters what conference we are in, we are screwed no matter what.

Just stay/go where we get the most $$$ and focus on us is the only hope in my opinion.

 

[BRaiderDave]

We would have missed out on a ton of revenue by leaving then from all the schools that left.

We've since collected that revenue along with extra NCAA credits that should be expiring soon from our victories 7ish years ago.

It makes more financial sense to go to the MAC now.

With that being said, I would never sign a GOR with them and I would not lock into any long-term type of situation. Probably just better off staying in CUSA at this time and angling for something with more regional games. In the end I don't think it really matters what conference we are in, we are screwed no matter what.

Just stay/go where we get the most $$$ and focus on us is the only hope in my opinion.

Agree with young Mr. Wiley. It didn't make financial sense at the time. Very well might now. And I wouldn't even consider it unless the MAC came off the GOR requirement.

 

[AustinLewis]

With that being said, I would never sign a GOR with them and I would not lock into any long-term type of situation. Probably just better off staying in CUSA at this time and angling for something with more regional games. In the end I don't think it really matters what conference we are in, we are screwed no matter what.

Just stay/go where we get the most $$$ and focus on us is the only hope in my opinion.

I don't think MAC invites MT / WKU without a GOR. I could be wrong, but I see GOR as part of the invitation to the MAC.

That's one reason I was against it a few years ago (and remain against the move right now). It's just not worth the financial cost.

 

[MidTennMtneer]

I don't think MAC invites MT / WKU without a GOR. I could be wrong, but I see GOR as part of the invitation to the MAC.

That's one reason I was against it a few years ago (and remain against the move right now). It's just not worth the financial cost.

My thoughts as well. Took me a while to get there I admit. Yes there are times that hindsight is 20/20 and we would be better off in the MAC...in certain specific aspects such as central geography and stability (which is null and void if anyone leaves as no one thought anyone would ever leave the MAC). But at the time, we made the right decision to stay for the exit fees we took in and the long GOR they wanted.

Sure we signed one with CUSA, but it expires after 2027-28 season. Big whoop. If the MAC had only wanted us to sign till the end of their current deal the year before, I think we'd be there now. But they were asking for one into the next decade. With the trouble the ACC has with theirs, imagine what that would do to a G5 school.

 

[MT01]

There is no reason to go to the MAC. It isn’t a significant upgrade - if at all - and would hurt recruiting.

 

[Sommy]

Package WKU and MT to the MWC then. Are we even trying to better our situation, or just sitting on our hands because this administration just wants to ride it out until retirement?

I personally would still beg and plead with AAC to let us in. That would be a clear upgrade.

 

[MTLynn]

Conference affiliation is important, but my main issue is WHY baseball, men's basketball, and football deteriorated, and WHY Blue Raider broadcasts have been pulled from 89.5 FM.

 

[BRaiderDave]

Conference affiliation is important, but my main issue is WHY baseball, men's basketball, and football deteriorated, and WHY Blue Raider broadcasts have been pulled from 89.5 FM.

Either one of two reasons; 1) complete ineptitude by McPhee/Massaro/Steve Smith or a combination within those three or 2) it was all intentional.

 

[MTFAN61]

The 2 most absurd things in MT Athletics & Administration are, 1) the Stock contract, & 2) Whomever it was that was responsible for giving up contractual rights for MT Athletics broadcasting on WMOT 89.5 Unforgivable.

 

[MidTennMtneer]

Grand Canyon joining MWC

 

[ewglenn]

 

[BRaiderDave]

View embedded media

Mountain West is all but dead

 

[MidTennMtneer]

Mountain West is all but dead

It without a doubt was one of the top 2 G5 conferences. Arguably 1st. Certainly not anymore. They'll have good years just like us, but losing Boise and SDSU was a killer for them. The new PAC is one of the top 2 now.

 

[MidTennMtneer]

Well, here we go again.

 

[mtfblue]

Well, here we go again.

View embedded media

dumb move for niu, mw should took the Montana and Dakota schools

 

[ewglenn]

dumb move for niu, mw should took the Montana and Dakota schools

Personally if I were the MWC I wouldn’t have taken GCU and UC Davis as partial members. I would have added UTEP, NMSU, Montana, NDSU, and SDSU. Hawaii moving to a full member was a no brainer.

 

[Sommy]

MW is almost as bad as CUSA. Ha !

 

[ewglenn]

MW is almost as bad as CUSA. Ha !

Honestly might be worse imo

 

[MT Glenn]

Northern Illinois to the MWC seems like a bad move for both sides. They don't help the conference in football, but will just add travel expenses to everyone. Unless they can get in the Missouri Valley, the other sports will be in a worse conference.

 

[MTFAN61]

I don't think the MVC is associated with D1 football though