FOOTBALL And of course our CUSA Champ takes care of business....vs. the MAC
- Thread starter FranklinRaider315
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Northern Illinois is not even in the same universe as Appy St. Not even close. Much easier opponent. We drew the toughest opponent in the conference by far. Utah St. is the closest but Appy st. is a better team.
Did Stock or Massaro hack your gomiddle account?
All due respect to Appy State which is a solid team - but how did we get to the point where we play a Sunbelt team, and are like "Well, they're just too good for us".
I expect that if we play an SEC team.
If we're looking way up at a Sunbelt team, something's wrong.
Like I mentioned to some of the twitter clowns defending this garbage heap - no one is demanding Stock run with Clemson and Alabama. But this program should never be blown off the field by 32 to another G5 team.
That's my point. It was a blowout by a SunBelt team. Yes a good team, but if it were competitive than I could understand better.
So on a similar note - If we had played Kentucky or even Georgia and blew them out, would there fans be a little upset and disappointed? Of course they would.
So on a similar note - If we had played Kentucky or even Georgia and blew them out, would there fans be a little upset and disappointed? Of course they would.
Appy st. would plow UAB. I have no doubt of that. Have you watched them? They had one bad game when Zack Thomas got hurt. After that, they were pretty much unstoppable. Appy st. never belonged in the Sun Belt. They should have been in CUSA or AAC when they went up. That's what's up. That program was always on the next level. 4 straight bowl wins. They aren't a sun belt team, they are just a great team. Not a good team but a legit top 25 team. Sheesh. Watch the film. It's all there. Top 6 total ranked defense. Smart offense. Good fundamentals. What more do you want?
Compare App state to Northern Illinois and get back to me. Not even remotely the same level.
This is the same Appy st. team that took Penn St. into overtime and they are better now then they were that first game. Plus, they were playing to win one for the Gipper since their coach left and the interim is probably getting axed. It's not an excuse it's just what it is. Marshall drew a better bowl with an easier opponent and we won the east. I'd rather have played Toledo or Hawaii again then Appy St. Y'all can say whatever you want but App St. is in the top 3 G5 teams this year. UCF, App St. and Utah St. Name me a better G5 team than them with the exception of UCF.
Compare App state to Northern Illinois and get back to me. Not even remotely the same level.
This is the same Appy st. team that took Penn St. into overtime and they are better now then they were that first game. Plus, they were playing to win one for the Gipper since their coach left and the interim is probably getting axed. It's not an excuse it's just what it is. Marshall drew a better bowl with an easier opponent and we won the east. I'd rather have played Toledo or Hawaii again then Appy St. Y'all can say whatever you want but App St. is in the top 3 G5 teams this year. UCF, App St. and Utah St. Name me a better G5 team than them with the exception of UCF.
The way MT played against Appy State losing by 32, we would lose against North Dakota State or Eastern Washington. Also, that performance may have not have defeated Maine or James Madison, or even Jacksonville State from the OVC.
I won't argue that but App St. is the real deal. Name me a better G5 team with the exception of UCF. A lot of teams would lose against NDSU. That's a dynasty.
Appy State may be good but there's absolutely no way I can find a positive in playing the role of victim, against a Sun Belt school. It says as much about us, as it does about Appy State.
No one has said Appy State isn't good.
But there should not be that much difference btwn any Sunbelt and CUSA program. We all have similar resources. It's not like it was a good program playing one that was down and out or rebuilding. These were two teams that finished at the top of their respective conferences. The game was only a 7 point spread.
If Appy wins on a late TD, you go "aw, man, we fought hard, but it didn't come out our way". This was shades of Hawaii.
Did anything you see Saturday make you proud of this program? Did we compete?
At some point, we need to stop the excuses and look in the mirror. I think you know this deep down.
I don't know why I keep beating this dead horse, it's nothing but bones and dust and no one in the AD cares.
JT I think the issue that everyone is lamenting is when is MT going to be the real deal? We're all still waiting.
Everyone is tired of the same thing. In other words, MT has the ability to do everything App did this year. We are actually in a far better location and more easily accessible yet we continually and perpetually fail to achieve anything more than average results.
In my opinion the difference between us and App St. as programs is when App St. won 3 consecutive FCS/1-AA championships they established a fanbase and a culture. It also helps there is nothing else to do in Boone, NC. If NDSU moved up they would probably be more successful.
On the Sun Belt vs. CUSA comparison there are three teams in the Sun Belt who I think would have been CUSA champs this year. App St., Troy, and Ga Southern. We moved from the Sun Belt to CUSA thinking it was a move up, but it turned into a lateral move or even a move down in football. Definitely a step up in basketball though.
On the Sun Belt vs. CUSA comparison there are three teams in the Sun Belt who I think would have been CUSA champs this year. App St., Troy, and Ga Southern. We moved from the Sun Belt to CUSA thinking it was a move up, but it turned into a lateral move or even a move down in football. Definitely a step up in basketball though.
I felt like we were headed in the right direction after 2009 - we averaged almost 21k in attendance that year.
But then the bottom fell out and we went 8-17 over the next 2 years, squandering any chance at building that winning culture that snowballs year to year.
After that came a parade of barely above .500, "bowl eligible" seasons, a lifetime contract, a 1-4 record in bowl games, and 0-2 in defacto championship (UAB this year and Arkansas State in 2012) games.
We traded a winning culture for a "we competed" culture.
MT01: "We are actually in a far better location and more easily accessible . . ."
Depends on what you use as the criteria to determine "better location" Just looking at our "sphere of influence", place where we fall in local (mid-state) media coverage, and our immediate area competition for fans and corporate support we have a terrible location. IMHO only Ga. St. (and possibly the two F_Us and Tulane) among all G5 schools in the $EC footprint has an equal or worse location. Nashville becoming an "It City" had done nothing for MT athletics.
As far as accessibility: Great if you are an out of the area fan coming back frequently for games (how many of those do we have?) and the coaches always say we are in great location for recruiting with the interstate system and BNA. But, is accessibility so important in building a program? Far down the list IMHO. If accessibility were so important the school on West End (three interstates crossing nearby - only $EC school anywhere near to an International airport) would have the best overall athletic program in the $EC.
Depends on what you use as the criteria to determine "better location" Just looking at our "sphere of influence", place where we fall in local (mid-state) media coverage, and our immediate area competition for fans and corporate support we have a terrible location. IMHO only Ga. St. (and possibly the two F_Us and Tulane) among all G5 schools in the $EC footprint has an equal or worse location. Nashville becoming an "It City" had done nothing for MT athletics.
As far as accessibility: Great if you are an out of the area fan coming back frequently for games (how many of those do we have?) and the coaches always say we are in great location for recruiting with the interstate system and BNA. But, is accessibility so important in building a program? Far down the list IMHO. If accessibility were so important the school on West End (three interstates crossing nearby - only $EC school anywhere near to an International airport) would have the best overall athletic program in the $EC.
Let's get real! Middle is a middle of the pack program; whether we're talking CUSA or Sun Belt. Compare our facilities, fan support, financial support, history, etc. Truth is, we're lucky to be middle of the pack. Throw in toxic message boards and is there any wonder why our recruiting is not what it needs to be. For a minute, take off your blue tinted glasses . Based only on the criteria above, (forget location and on-the-field performance) I would like to know just how many Sunbelt and CUSA football programs you think Middle is clearly superior?
I've come to the realization that we are in the middle until we correct the factors that yield successful programs.
I think we do need change, so not a sunshine pumper...
but our program is not middle of the pack in wins...We are tied with Marshall for the most CUSA wins since we joined. That is not middle the pack. We just haven't won the biggest games frequently enough.
Now, from a fan perspective, we have one of the poorest fan bases in SB/CUSA. I think our problem is much bigger than our FB team, its the ENTIRE university (but that is another conversation).
Yes, being in a large metro area offers both pros and cons. But one thing App can never generate is significant local/regional media exposure. It is important to building and growing your brand. Building your brand is important to growing your fanbase. The problem in Murfreesboro is what Doug talked about. We had 3 or 4 seasons in a row of better than 20K attendance. That was actual attendance back then because McPhee required it. The fan base was starting to grow. I mean everything was there for the taking. And then CRS managed to find a way to suck the life out of the program and the administration got fat and happy and didn't do shit for years. It's a case study in how to ruin a program. And as I stated before beginning next year we are going to begin to see just how bad our next five to 10 years are going to be. Recruiting has taken a nose dive. The fan base has left. We're hemorrhaging cash which is why we are now back to three or more body bag games a year. It is yet to be seen if CNM can save basketball from its death spiral but by and large our entire athletics program is currently in the early stage of a catastrophic nose dive.
Also, how in the world can you compare a perennial cellar dweller that lacks commitment to athletics and has to compete in the SEC with Stanford-like admission requirements to us? If you put an average SEC program like SC, Ole Miss, Miss State, or Arkansas in Nashville and called them Tenn State it would be like Michigan and Michigan State in this state. And a lot of years UTK would struggle to gain media traction in the mid-state.
Lastly, you don't think App St has competition? Boone is as close to UTK as we are. Plus they have four P5 programs in their state with Duke, NC State, UNC, and Wake Forest. Not to mention a total of six Division 1 football schools total and 18 in the state that play Division 1 basketball. We can agree that due to their isolation there is more of a small town buy in than we have in Murfressboro but again that's because they win. They have a winning culture where as we have a "just get by" culture. Proof of that comes by looking at their basketball program/attendance. Access also effects recruiting. Should be much easier where we are than in the mountains of NC. But most of our coaches either don't want to recruit or aren't very good at it.
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You wanna know the real answer? Go listen to an interview of App State's AD. That guy knows his stuff and is sharp as hell. Then listen to a Massaro interview. The comparison is laughable. I'm surprised App State's AD hasn't gotten poached. That dude is next level. Go listen to their president speak. He's also sharp and committed to championship athletics. They have 3 national titles and they keep their coaches for a long time. They've been running that way for over 20 years.
So the real answer for us is that we will never be on that level. We don't have the infrastructure that it takes to get there. We don't have the mindset nor do we have the sharp leadership that it takes. Massaro isn't gonna fire himself or Stock and McPhee is stacking cash towards retirement. We are stuck. We have to enjoy the wins we get because honestly, we operate on a UTEP level and overperform at football more than we operate on an App St level and underperform.
BTW, I was never justifying us nor was I defending Stock or anything. I was just making the point that App St, is a buzzsaw and would beat every team in our conference like a drum including UAB. In reality, UAB made a shoestring tackle on Dobson. If that guy misses that tackle, UAB suffers our fate and would have gotten beat like we did on Saturday. There's nothing that would convince me otherwise. App St. is a wall and we slammed right into it last Saturday.
MT01: I think we're talking past each other based on age, time supporting MT, exposure to changes, personal experience, etc. I do wonder if you've been to Boone from your comments, not that that is relevant to the discussion.
Regardless you make good points and I do agree with the premise that MT athletics is in a nose dive. Hopefully we can agree that financially, we are just treading water. We don't have true big boosters ($10,000 a year is probably the best you have - in today's world that ain't squat) and we can't even get the counties' largest employer to give the athletic dept. the time of day while their adds appear in college arenas and stadiums across the U.S. The biggest problem we have is lack of money caused by attendance issues, decreasing media contracts, increased cost of scholarships as we agreed to provide "cost of attendance" funds, among other issues. Does anyone in their right mind think the proposed facility upgrades will happen in the next decade. Probably won't even be started.
Back to the location discussion. We are too damn close to Nashville to develop our own "sphere of influence" and too far away from the media in Nashville (which controls all the mid-state) to be relevant except in unusual (beat Mich. St. in BkB for instance) circumstances. Most of the time the only time we are mentioned on N'ville sports talk is when a sponsor pays for an athletic dept. person to be interviewed. It was either here or at the now defunct Zone where someone had a survey which showed MT isn't even the favorite team in the Zip Code where the school is located.
As for your response to my mention of the school on West End. I was just using that example to show that IMHO ease of access isn't hugely important. As for the elite academic standards at VU, mission of school is so much different than any public school and regardless, it's obvious that VU admissions makes exceptions for some athletes. Not that I'm implying that we fish for athletes in the same pool of prospects.
Lastly, it would be interesting in this discussion to know how many FB season tickets App. St. sells outside of the county where they are located compared to how many MT sold outside Rutherford in the best year ever. I would bet a dollar to a donut that they sell many more than we do (did in the best year), even though our surrounding counties have exponentially more residents. MT is in a great location for the school to grow if students #s are a priority. Not such a great location to grow an athletic fan base, get big donations, have extensive media coverage, or to have the expectation for casual fans to "keep up".
I live in Charlotte NC and I can assure you that App State has more than enough media exposure. Their coverage in the local media dwarfs UNCC. They have had a significant and intentional marketing campaign in this media market. In fact, even as FCS, they had 18 wheelers rolling around as billboards touting the back-to-back-to-back championships.
Right there. Solid and sharp leadership. App St. belonged in CUSA or the AAC from the jump. Why Banowski chose Charlotte over App St. to expand with is beyond me. Kinda glad now.
Wanna know what's even worse? Charlotte got a C-USA invite before we did.Right there. Solid and sharp leadership. App St. belonged in CUSA or the AAC from the jump. Why Banowski chose Charlotte over App St. to expand with is beyond me. Kinda glad now.
Charlotte was a full but non-football member from 1995 to 2005 and again from 2013 to now. They had left for the A-10 but were invited back in 2013 along with FIU, UTSA, and ODU. The second wave of CUSA expansion happened a few months later when we and FAU got invited.
6 false starts to start the bowl game, 12 men on field to end the championship. From an outside fans perspective we have no discipline. The end of the bowl game was ugly and made me ashamed of the program with the personal fouls and late hits. Same deal as the military bowl. That was an ugly program loss as well. Problem is we don’t lose close exciting games we get blown out and act like sore losers. No way to build the program when our moral compass is so clearly broken. When he let dasher back on the team that’s what did it for me. Double standards galore.
To me big stock does not seem like a leader, he gets down quickly and the team follows him down the tubes. Watch him on the side lines when we miss a kick, he won’t shake the kids hand, runs and hides. Just not a good leader.
To me big stock does not seem like a leader, he gets down quickly and the team follows him down the tubes. Watch him on the side lines when we miss a kick, he won’t shake the kids hand, runs and hides. Just not a good leader.
I don't know Stock personally...but I do here from his players and they love him. Blankenship's post game comments about Coach tells me he is a good leader.
I think the team was still dealing with the loss in the championship game - I think it took a lot out of the team. And App State was a very strong opponent...the combination was deadly. The mistakes we made in the game were uncharacteristic...the last several games we have played pretty good football.
The bottom line is we are good, not great team. We don't have the horses to overcome mistake prone FB...reading into more than that is just overkill.
I think the team was still dealing with the loss in the championship game - I think it took a lot out of the team. And App State was a very strong opponent...the combination was deadly. The mistakes we made in the game were uncharacteristic...the last several games we have played pretty good football.
The bottom line is we are good, not great team. We don't have the horses to overcome mistake prone FB...reading into more than that is just overkill.
At least in bowl season, look no further than our own conference mate Marshall Thundering Herd. The 38-20 win over USF last night makes seven bowls won since 2009 (believe they are consecutive, too)—Our ten point, 34-24, win this season pales in comparision. Just in the last ten years there have been Boise State, Nevada, Houston, Memphis, Army, Navy, NIU, Southern Miss, San Diego State, Fresno, Louisiana Tech, UAB, Utah State, Cincinnati, Troy, Western Kentucky, and Appalachian State who have all enjoyed a number by their name at some point during in at least one weekly Top 25 poll. That indicates being a better team by sportswriter or Coaches voting on their week to week performance. And, I acknowledge that I may have missed someone that needs to be added from G5 outside of UCF. Though these are not powerhouse dynasties, it’s a considerably large number that have achieved more than we with our bowl eligibility and two postseason bowl wins in 2009 and 2017.
MT has still yet to defeat a ranked team in FBS as a FBS Member and get ranked in the poll (although we have received votes—that’s as good as it gets, unfortunately). Maybe next year is what we are left to hope.
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App St. would destroy Marshall. Marshall couldn't even beat a bad VaTech team who got beat by OD freaking U. Marshall beat a 7 win USF not UCF. Big dang difference. We did beat them in their house. That was the same D on the field we put points on that beat mighty USF. LOL. App st. was the toughest draw in the bowls for CUSA by far. Just saying. I hated the effort and the result but App state was a buzzsaw and we were still deflated from the 2 point championship loss to a very good UAB team.
No offense but we won 8 games which is a sign that we competed. We also beat UAB and was the only team in the conference to do so. UAB makes a shoestring TD saving tackle that won their championship. We were a good team. Winning the last 2 would have made this a great team. We played UAB to the wall. App St. was a different animal. That's an 11 win team that took Penn St. into overtime up at State College. Come on.
6 false starts and not turning red zone visits into points did us in. Buzz saw not so much. We punch them in the mouth, score on those visits, and not make the worst turn over ever, we win that game. Same song different dance/bowl game. Only one constant though the years though. Big bald scared stuck still.
I can play your game too. I would agree we would have beat UAB if it weren't for a shoestring tackle but it wasn't the last play of the game. Plenty of time after that for anything to happen, like putting 12 men on the field after a timeout. We beat 2 teams with winning records. Thankfully our conference is crap except for a couple of teams every year separating themselves from the rest. We are never among those that rise above the rest. The Marshal win earlier this year was nice. They didn't have all their horses like QB or RB. Doc improved them and won his FIFTH consecutive bowl game.
We beat a UAB team without their starting offensive line, star running back and an injured QB who will have surgery next month. They recovered, beat us and won their bowl game.
I'll give you Apply was the toughest draw. I'm still not convinced we would have won if we were sent anywhere else. This head coach is not capable of preparing his team's to win.
Other teams usually do.
Good luck in Birmingham today.
We are good, we have the MOST CUSA wins since 2013, by any logical argument in our little slice of FB that is more than competing. Its the lack of the biggest wins that is what is factual.
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