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The heart of the problem with MT Football (long)

RaiderDoug

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Jul 26, 2005
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Sitting here with nothing much to do, I started to think about why MT football has failed in so many eyes.

We all like Stock, right? He's by all accounts a good man. He's loyal to MT. He does right by his players. His players generally stay out of trouble, the APR is something we call all be proud of. There's a lot to like about the way he runs our program.

But we're failing miserably in the most important part of the game - winning on the field.

Now, we've seen us with some big upsets. GT, Mizzou. We're generally good enough to not crater, but I can't remember the last time we actually played for anything other than bowl eligibility.

So, to me, I'm not sure it's an X's and O's problem. If he was a bad gameday coach - well, "bad" coaches don't accomplish some of the things we've been able to do.

Here's the problem - it's the Jimmy's and the Joe's.

The players entering the program are simply not good enough to do anything more than compete at the CUSA level.

Using the TOS composite recruiting ranking's score, our average class in the CUSA era is 7th among our peers.

Our average finish in CUSA is 4th (actually like 4.5, we'll call it 4th as there's lots of weird tie breakers).

The systems (X's and O's) are actually coaching these players up (the on field finish is higher than the recruiting ranking), but they're simply not good enough, even fully developed, to do anything more than simply finish in the middle of the pack.

And here's the evidence that proves it - over the course of the entire Stock regime - 12 years - we've had 5 players drafted in total. That's FCS territory. For comparison's sake WKU has 9. Appy State has 11. Arkansas State has 8. It's almost unheard of for a program as steady as ours.

The simple fact is that large #'s of the players on these rosters are not good enough to play and win at this level. Yes, there's a Byard or Brent Stockstill or Richie James that comes through every so often - exceptional players that would be successful anywhere. But by and large, these guys aren't good enough as recruits, they don't develop into high level CUSA players, and the NFL wants no part of them.

Sadly, there's doesn't seem to be any light at the end of the tunnel.

The 2017 class finished 7th per 247 composite. The 2018 class was 10th. 10th in a 14 team league. The upcoming 2019 class is ranked 8th right now - and every class ranked below us has less commits - there's no one with a similar # of verbal commits in CUSA that is doing as poorly as MT is. The fact is - all these games aren't lost in the fall on the field - they're lost in February.

All the competing on the field in the fall is undone by the failure to compete on the recruiting trail.
 
Calculate the avg. age of our staff. HC included. Recruiting is a young man’s game. These guys might be able to “coach up” some Donkeys vs. Donkeys wins based on their experience. But in a match of Donkeys vs. Thoroughbreds, the horses will win every time. Our staff is just padding their TN Consolidated Retirement years. It is what it is.
 
It's really hard to understand our recruiting. I have some connections to the area high school scene and WKU, MAC schools, Appy. St. and others offer players we won't even come look at. Hard to understand.
And I noticed another mid-state player recently committed to Memphis. Realizing that some are fans of both schools but when we won that 6 (?) game series that should have cut Memphis off from players in our backyard.
 
Good analysis. However, the root problems are deeper than just one aspect whether it be recruiting or coaching or insert your vice here.

There is system failure of leadership. So let's take just the recruiting problem which once you do it you see there are derivatives that drill down into the why. Why is recruiting a problem? Well, as you drill down you can say is it poor recruiters? Or perhaps its buddies who have been given coaching positions who won't recruit. Or perhaps its recruiting budget which has been hampered by an inability to create interest in the program due to laid eggs at home, rinse/repeat monotone comments by head coach, failure to achieve expectations, etc., etc., which has disenfranchised the fan base resulting in the fan base being eviscerated. Lack of cash has resulted in poor facilities. Hurts recruiting too. I can go on and on. The problems at MT aren't just one thing. It's a failure of leadership to establish a winning culture at MT. There is no culture of success, achievement, or making it to the next level at just about anywhere you walk on that campus.
 
In the end who cares about all of the peripherals? A number of athletes said it best...nobody came here to watch us play school. That's the point that's great that we are high on academics, but college football is a business. Anyone that says otherwise is only fooling themselves at this point. MT missed its opportunity to jump over the gap between haves and have nots and be one of the teams that can "compete" with lower level Power 5 schools.

It's funny that after the 2009 season, Memphis offered Stock a job. Now Memphis would wipe the floor with us, and is a far superior program to ours. Let's face it that was the peak of the Stockstill era. Since 2009, Western Kentucky has hired the current coach of FSU, Louisville, and Purdue and had them as their school's head coach. FAU's program was in shambles and will dominate us at least for the next few seasons. North Texas was burnt to the ground and now beat Arkansas just a week ago. The problem is the staff. That's the common denominator, we stayed the same and they got better. That's the problem with where we are. We win just enough that we can't justify firing him. Bowl eligible, Bowl eligible, Bowl eligible.

The worst part about it is the apathy. Not just from fans, but the administration, and staff as well. You can say recruiting, is the problem, but that's not going to change. In no way shape or form has this team trended up in the past two and a half seasons. The team relied so heavily on Brent that when he's not around they crumble. Once he's gone what are they going to do? Look at the teams at the top of the conference FAU and NT I'd rather suffer through the rebuilding than go to the Popeye's KFC Taco Bell Unified Liberty Bowl every season. Our ceiling as a program is a C-USA championship and lower tier bowl invite. Problem is I just don't ever see that happening with this staff. Recruiting is stagnant, interest is stagnant, and the whole program is stagnant. In any other business this would be unacceptable. In college football stability is overrated.

Let me put it another way. At MTSU if no one is looking to hire your head coach then he's not good enough. Simple as that. Look at Western they hit 3 coaches dead on. Sanford may be a dud but 75% is a good hiring average anyway you slice it. We keep a guy for 15 years. That's great look where we are. After 2009 season how many times has he been called for a job?

We had one great season and two or three good seasons. I challenge any one to show me what progress has been made since the 2016 season for sustained success. Nobody on this board can tell me we have a chance to win the conference this year or next. We will pick up 4-5 wins against the dregs of college football and the season will be hailed as success. I hope I am not present at the next BRAA meeting when that is pitched. I just feel like nobody in the athletic department cares to say that's not good enough. That's not something they are capable of saying. It's always a positive spin. You would hope internally that is not the attitude. I just don't get that vibe from anyone in the athletic department. I wish and hope I was wrong, but that's the Blue Raiders for you.
 
Excuse my ignorance, but what is the best bowl we go to? New Orleans with a championship?

The CUSA champ gets to pick from 7-9 bowls which they go to. The NO bowl is one of those, with the Bahama, Hawaii, New Mexico, gasparilla, Tart Cherry and First Responders. We also can go to the Independence if not enough ACC/SEC teams to fill or Frisco if they can’t get an AAC or MAC.

To me, the First Responders (use to be heart of Dallas) or Independence are the best since you match up with a P5 school.
 
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Sometimes you need fresh blood just for the sake of it. Stockstill has had 13 seasons to field the best in the conference. If we don’t win it this year, it makes no sense to keep him. But we will have to because our AD is an idiot. All of them need to go to be honest. We need fresh blood everywhere. A new president, new AD, and new head coach would breath so much life into this dead university.
 
"It's funny that after the 2009 season, Memphis offered Stock a job. Now Memphis would wipe the floor with us, and is a far superior program to ours. Let's face it that was the peak of the Stockstill era. Since 2009, Western Kentucky has hired the current coach of FSU, Louisville, and Purdue and had them as their school's head coach. FAU's program was in shambles and will dominate us at least for the next few seasons. North Texas was burnt to the ground and now beat Arkansas just a week ago. The problem is the staff. That's the common denominator, we stayed the same and they got better. That's the problem with where we are. We win just enough that we can't justify firing him. Bowl eligible, Bowl eligible, Bowl eligible. "

Ok, I get folks are not happy. I really get it. However, I do think folks are caught up in their feelings. I'm not defending anything but holy crap, you guys act like we've won 1-2 games a year for the last 20 years. Again, I want better too but it hasn't been all bad either.

Memphis is a far superior program to ours since 2014. We went 5-2 against them from 2007-2014 so, they weren't superior when we played them.

WKU did have success after 2011. However, Taggert is about to already be shown the door. Brohm isn't having success at Purdue and Louisville's love for Petrino is waning. Not exactly Malzahn or Saban. WKU is 0-3 right now and I doubt their fans are happy to have a 2nd year young coach. They want him gone and they are miserable.

FAU will not dominate us for the next few years because if Kiffin wins more than 8 this year, he's gone.

UNT has finally gotten it right but with the fanbase we have, would we still be here to wait over 12 years to get to where they are now. Would anyone here endure 12 years of losing to get the coach they have now? Everyone here loses their mind when we just win 7-8. LOL. A string of 2-4 win seasons would put y'all in the hospital.

Frustration is valid. I do agree with that. I think we have plenty of talent. I have a bigger problem with our playcalling right now. I was down in Athens last Saturday and was plenty frustrated. Ask my friend who was with me. :) But I was mad at Tony Franklin. That guy needs to get his crazy butt back up in the booth. When he did that in 2009 after the Miss St. game, we instantly got better on O that year and reeled off 7 wins. Tony, it's time for the booth. I just don't think change is gonna happen this season. However, we are 3 games in. There's a lot of football left. We have a bye week. Hopefully, we correct some things and we get healthy. If we do, the FAU game will be better.
 
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It's really hard to understand our recruiting. I have some connections to the area high school scene and WKU, MAC schools, Appy. St. and others offer players we won't even come look at. Hard to understand.
And I noticed another mid-state player recently committed to Memphis. Realizing that some are fans of both schools but when we won that 6 (?) game series that should have cut Memphis off from players in our backyard.
Ryan Silverfield, the guy who recruits Middle TN for Memphis is only 38 but he has 18 years experience coaching. He was one of the youngest NFL assistants with the Lions before coming to Memphis. He works this area hard. Has great relationships with HS coaches. He signed Obinna Eze and TJ Carter in the same class. He has consistently ranked as the top recruiter in the AAC. The kid from Hillsboro was a surprise commit last week.
 
Yet, Stock goes and hires the guy responsible for most of those Memphis losses to MT (either by being on the sideline or the residual effect of his crappy recruiting for his last four seasons at Memphis.) Then he lays out a year drawing a full check from Memphis before tanking the defenses at UAB and USM as DC. Stock may look tired and frustrated but he brought all this on himself.
 
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This similar thought crossed my mind during the UTM game. I sit behind the Raiders bench for home games. I regularly notice guys on the sideline who I don't recognize. I look them up in the program, see their name, and remember how they were pumped up to be the saving grace of MT Football. Then, they get here, and never see field. The JUCO players especially bother me. If you bring in a JUCO, they better be able to contribute right away or why even sign them. Staff has to do a better job of evaluating the talent they sign.
 
"It's funny that after the 2009 season, Memphis offered Stock a job. Now Memphis would wipe the floor with us, and is a far superior program to ours. Let's face it that was the peak of the Stockstill era. Since 2009, Western Kentucky has hired the current coach of FSU, Louisville, and Purdue and had them as their school's head coach. FAU's program was in shambles and will dominate us at least for the next few seasons. North Texas was burnt to the ground and now beat Arkansas just a week ago. The problem is the staff. That's the common denominator, we stayed the same and they got better. That's the problem with where we are. We win just enough that we can't justify firing him. Bowl eligible, Bowl eligible, Bowl eligible. "

Ok, I get folks are not happy. I really get it. However, I do think folks are caught up in their feelings. I'm not defending anything but holy crap, you guys act like we've won 1-2 games a year for the last 20 years. Again, I want better too but it hasn't been all bad either.

Memphis is a far superior program to ours since 2014. We went 5-2 against them from 2007-2014 so, they weren't superior when we played them.

WKU did have success after 2011. However, Taggert is about to already be shown the door. Brohm isn't having success at Purdue and Louisville's love for Petrino is waning. Not exactly Malzahn or Saban. WKU is 0-3 right now and I doubt their fans are happy to have a 2nd year young coach. They want him gone and they are miserable.

FAU will not dominate us for the next few years because if Kiffin wins more than 8 this year, he's gone.

UNT has finally gotten it right but with the fanbase we have, would we still be here to wait over 12 years to get to where they are now. Would anyone here endure 12 years of losing to get the coach they have now? Everyone here loses their mind when we just win 7-8. LOL. A string of 2-4 win seasons would put y'all in the hospital.

Frustration is valid. I do agree with that. I think we have plenty of talent. I have a bigger problem with our playcalling right now. I was down in Athens last Saturday and was plenty frustrated. Ask my friend who was with me. :) But I was mad at Tony Franklin. That guy needs to get his crazy butt back up in the booth. When he did that in 2009 after the Miss St. game, we instantly got better on O that year and reeled off 7 wins. Tony, it's time for the booth. I just don't think change is gonna happen this season. However, we are 3 games in. There's a lot of football left. We have a bye week. Hopefully, we correct some things and we get healthy. If we do, the FAU game will be better.

In three games you can tell nothing has changed....that's the point. There's nothing emotional about this statement its all backed up by facts.

The Fact is Memphis is a better program than us and almost hired Stock. (Bad for us good for them!)

My point about Western is they had three coaches hired by power 5 schools. Doesn't matter if they aren't that successful or not they at least had as much or more success than Stock while they were there. How many schools are beating down the door to hire our coach? How many offers has he received since the New Orleans bowl.

You can say all you want about Kiffin leaving, but the fact is he already did what we couldn't...Win C-USA. If he wins it twice I'd take their past 10 years over ours any day! Kiffin may not leave for another season, but he may see the cupboard is a little more bare. Either way if he leaves what makes you think we can beat them as we are currently composed?

North Texas had higher peaks than us as a program. They dominated the SBC and then were a joke in CUSA. Then they rebuilt and have a win this year that is better than any Stock has had. On a name basis who have we beat better than Arkansas? Their team is bad, their staff has changed, but its still Arkansas, not a perennial bottom feeder in the SEC which is our best win during this era.

Again look at the statistics that we care about 2-5 in bowl games (bad), 80-74 overall (average), 26-14 in CUSA. How many of those conference victories were against teams with above .500 winning records? I am glad you asked! 2017: 1 2016:1 2015: 1 2014: 1 (2 wins against .500 teams) 2013: 1. Who have we beat in conference?

If you look at Stock's record taking out out Out of Conference power opponents and the bottom dwellers of C-USA, I would be curious to see what his record is against winning teams in C-USA and winning Group of 5 teams. This takes longer for me to compile than a simple reference search.

I've been ready to pull the plug for a few years now on this staff, but that's not happening. I just don't want anyone to tell me we have it good as a football program. I think the best way to describe it is just by looking at the overall record: Average. I'd rather be bad than average if it means being good or great later on.
 
In three games you can tell nothing has changed....that's the point. There's nothing emotional about this statement its all backed up by facts.

The Fact is Memphis is a better program than us and almost hired Stock. (Bad for us good for them!)

My point about Western is they had three coaches hired by power 5 schools. Doesn't matter if they aren't that successful or not they at least had as much or more success than Stock while they were there. How many schools are beating down the door to hire our coach? How many offers has he received since the New Orleans bowl.

You can say all you want about Kiffin leaving, but the fact is he already did what we couldn't...Win C-USA. If he wins it twice I'd take their past 10 years over ours any day! Kiffin may not leave for another season, but he may see the cupboard is a little more bare. Either way if he leaves what makes you think we can beat them as we are currently composed?

North Texas had higher peaks than us as a program. They dominated the SBC and then were a joke in CUSA. Then they rebuilt and have a win this year that is better than any Stock has had. On a name basis who have we beat better than Arkansas? Their team is bad, their staff has changed, but its still Arkansas, not a perennial bottom feeder in the SEC which is our best win during this era.

Again look at the statistics that we care about 2-5 in bowl games (bad), 80-74 overall (average), 26-14 in CUSA. How many of those conference victories were against teams with above .500 winning records? I am glad you asked! 2017: 1 2016:1 2015: 1 2014: 1 (2 wins against .500 teams) 2013: 1. Who have we beat in conference?

If you look at Stock's record taking out out Out of Conference power opponents and the bottom dwellers of C-USA, I would be curious to see what his record is against winning teams in C-USA and winning Group of 5 teams. This takes longer for me to compile than a simple reference search.

I've been ready to pull the plug for a few years now on this staff, but that's not happening. I just don't want anyone to tell me we have it good as a football program. I think the best way to describe it is just by looking at the overall record: Average. I'd rather be bad than average if it means being good or great later on.
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In three games you can tell nothing has changed....that's the point. There's nothing emotional about this statement its all backed up by facts.

The Fact is Memphis is a better program than us and almost hired Stock. (Bad for us good for them!)

My point about Western is they had three coaches hired by power 5 schools. Doesn't matter if they aren't that successful or not they at least had as much or more success than Stock while they were there. How many schools are beating down the door to hire our coach? How many offers has he received since the New Orleans bowl.

You can say all you want about Kiffin leaving, but the fact is he already did what we couldn't...Win C-USA. If he wins it twice I'd take their past 10 years over ours any day! Kiffin may not leave for another season, but he may see the cupboard is a little more bare. Either way if he leaves what makes you think we can beat them as we are currently composed?

North Texas had higher peaks than us as a program. They dominated the SBC and then were a joke in CUSA. Then they rebuilt and have a win this year that is better than any Stock has had. On a name basis who have we beat better than Arkansas? Their team is bad, their staff has changed, but its still Arkansas, not a perennial bottom feeder in the SEC which is our best win during this era.

Again look at the statistics that we care about 2-5 in bowl games (bad), 80-74 overall (average), 26-14 in CUSA. How many of those conference victories were against teams with above .500 winning records? I am glad you asked! 2017: 1 2016:1 2015: 1 2014: 1 (2 wins against .500 teams) 2013: 1. Who have we beat in conference?

If you look at Stock's record taking out out Out of Conference power opponents and the bottom dwellers of C-USA, I would be curious to see what his record is against winning teams in C-USA and winning Group of 5 teams. This takes longer for me to compile than a simple reference search.

I've been ready to pull the plug for a few years now on this staff, but that's not happening. I just don't want anyone to tell me we have it good as a football program. I think the best way to describe it is just by looking at the overall record: Average. I'd rather be bad than average if it means being good or great later on.

Exactly! I'd almost prefer an 0-12 season where Massaro has no choice but to fire Stock where we can get a whole new staff in here.
 
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Be careful what you ask...I am all for change. But our problems are systemic...we don't have a Fed Ex like Memphis...where are we going to get the money to grow our program? Assume we could pay off or negotiate with Stock and he leaves. NT is paying their coach 1.4M. Do we have that, we are not going to get a Diaz or Craddock here for $800K a year.

Are challenges are deep...no one hear is talking about solving anything other than another coach. Maybe our ceiling is similar to the MAC schools.
 
Mike is correct in that our issues go deeper than Stockstill. Say we have some serendipity and he decides to retire after this season. Do we have any faith in Massaro that he'll hire a good replacement who will go on to be one of those coaches who is so successful that P5 programs want him? I have zero confidence in Massaro.
 
There may be some issues with the program - facilities, funding etc. But nobody is expecting us to compete with Tennessee and Alabama.

You can't tell me that FAU, or WKU, or UTEP, or LaTech has it sooo much better than we do that we can't possibly be expected to compete with them?

We're one of the higher budgeted teams in the conference. I've not seen all the other team's facilities, but I have a hard time buying that we'd be 14th in at 14 team conference. I have seen NT and USM's campus and facilities - they're nothing special. I've seen other CUSA teams on TV - we're not Marshall when it comes to fan support, but we're light years ahead of the F_U's. That doesn't stop them from doing more than "compete".
 
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Why would you want a craddock? I'm just not that impressed with him or bell at this point.
 
Hard to compare our programs to the schools in Fla and Texas (exponentially more prospects in the immediate area) and Marshall who, because of location, has a built in "sphere of influence".

Our entire athletic program, not just FB, is held back by two interrelated factors; location and funding. We know funding is stagnant or decreasing and it can be argued that our location is one of the worse of schools in The South attempting to play G-5 FB.

We have just a hint of what McPhee and Massaro have done to elicit support from alumni, media, and area businesses for the athletic program. All I know is what I have seen and heard about and that's very little. McPhee, who seems more interested in China than Columbia, Centerville, Celina, and Carthage (to name a few Mid-State towns starting with C) likes to be seen at athletic events but I have no idea what he does behind the scenes. As for Massaro he should have been given his walking papers once he applied for jobs at what most would consider lesser schools. IMHO both Massaro and McPhee are just padding their retirement while still holding their positions.

Regardless, it's possible both the Pres. and the AD have done all they could to find support and continually come up against a brick wall. We'll never know. We do know that the entire athletic program is regressing not only because of some bad decisions but primarily because of the changing college landscape over which those in Cope and Murphy have no control.

I'll be cut down again for saying it but the D-1 FB experiment at MT has failed. That is, unless you accept that G-5 is the new 1-AA and we have to be happy that we've at least maintained to where we were before the move up to D-1. We at least have the TN Techs, APSUs, TSUs, Murray States, UT-Cs, EKUs, and other schools we left back in FCS to positively compare against in most sports most years. Unfortunately, we have a greater chance of dropping back with those schools than we do having real success where we presently are.
 
Facilities besides UTSA, i don't think we would be higher than anyone else. I've seen ODU, UNCC, USM, FAU, FIU, WKU, UAB in person. I can't remember anyone having the football locker room down in a basement below the gym, with small meeting rooms. Weightroom is avg at best.
 
All I hear from everyone is out of ideas and options. How do we know this? Problem is we will never know if all was done but we on the message board aren’t responsible for the money or anything below the surface.

We don’t know or aren’t in a position to solve these problems. Do you think Boise state said woe as us we are in th middle of Idaho? Do you think Hawaii Said well we will never win the conference we are so far away and it costs a ton of money let’s just give up? We just call out what we can.

But you can’t say without a doubt that in 15 years and one president and one AD that’s the end. No way.
 
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If we have to wade through 8-10 years of 0-12, 2-10 seasons to have a 9-10 win season like UNT, I'm out. I have other stuff to do. They had a good year last year and still got hammered vs, FAU. Twice.

I sat at those games in 2002, 03, 04 and 05. Let me tell you right now, that was some terrible football. Much worse than now. We lost to friggin SEMO and FAU when they were 1-aa. Sorry, but 7-8 wins per season is way better than that. I watched us play the sloppiest game in 2005 vs. ULL. We looked like a friggin junior varsity junior high team. We lost 13-10 to those clowns. It was horrible. I know I'm in the minority on this but if I have to endure that crap again for 4 straight years or more, I'm out.

I totally agree on the "if we fire Stock. then what?" train of thought. I also think the issue is deeper than Stock. I don't think Massaro would bring in a better replacement. I also don't think McPhee would invest in a next level coach either. We are truly stuck right now. I do believe that. I also feel like Stock has brought us some success too. He hasn't been all bad.

Unless he retires, he's gonna be here as long as he wants. Same with Massaro. It's just how it is no matter what we may want. I used to be all in and now I'm beginning to look at my options on Saturdays now. It's not because of Stock or the FB team. It's because of the attitudes of the fans and the Athletic Dept. It's just drama now and I have enough of that with the 3 businesses I'm running. Why make time for something everyone runs down all of the time? It's just not fun for me anymore. I come to these boards and it's a miserable place 95% of the time. I think I need a break from it. I used to love this but now it may be time to do some other things on Saturdays and during the week.
 
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If we have to wade through 8-10 years of 0-12, 2-10 seasons to have a 9-10 win season like UNT, I'm out. I have other stuff to do. They had a good year last year and still got hammered vs, FAU. Twice.

I sat at those games in 2002, 03, 04 and 05. Let me tell you right now, that was some terrible football. Much worse than now. We lost to friggin SEMO and FAU when they were 1-aa. Sorry, but 7-8 wins per season is way better than that. I watched us play the sloppiest game in 2005 vs. ULL. We looked like a friggin junior varsity junior high team. We lost 13-10 to those clowns. It was horrible. I know I'm in the minority on this but if I have to endure that crap again for 4 straight years or more, I'm out.

I totally agree on the "if we fire Stock. then what?" train of thought. I also think the issue is deeper than Stock. I don't think Massaro would bring in a better replacement. I also don't think McPhee would invest in a next level coach either. We are truly stuck right now. I do believe that. I also feel like Stock has brought us some success too. He hasn't been all bad.

Unless he retires, he's gonna be here as long as he wants. Same with Massaro. It's just how it is no matter what we may want. I used to be all in and now I'm beginning to look at my options on Saturdays now. It's not because of Stock or the FB team. It's because of the attitudes of the fans and the Athletic Dept. It's just drama now and I have enough of that with the 3 businesses I'm running. Why make time for something everyone runs down all of the time? It's just not fun for me anymore. I come to these boards and it's a miserable place 95% of the time. I think I need a break from it. I used to love this but now it may be time to do some other things on Saturdays and during the week.

Its hard to be positive about this program. It's that simple. We aren't asking for a national title contender. A conference title contender is what we want. You make my point perfectly. You have better things to do than watch us. If we were better or there was some excitement around the team I think you and others would feel otherwise.

To me this team and program as it relates to Stock if you fire him what are you losing? Honestly. You are losing a good person. That's about it. Nobody can debate he's an honorable likeable guy but when's the last time he went out and campaigned for the school? I see all these events and its Insell and McDevitt are the speakers.
 
If we have to wade through 8-10 years of 0-12, 2-10 seasons to have a 9-10 win season like UNT, I'm out. I have other stuff to do. They had a good year last year and still got hammered vs, FAU. Twice.

I sat at those games in 2002, 03, 04 and 05. Let me tell you right now, that was some terrible football. Much worse than now. We lost to friggin SEMO and FAU when they were 1-aa. Sorry, but 7-8 wins per season is way better than that. I watched us play the sloppiest game in 2005 vs. ULL. We looked like a friggin junior varsity junior high team. We lost 13-10 to those clowns. It was horrible. I know I'm in the minority on this but if I have to endure that crap again for 4 straight years or more, I'm out.

I totally agree on the "if we fire Stock. then what?" train of thought. I also think the issue is deeper than Stock. I don't think Massaro would bring in a better replacement. I also don't think McPhee would invest in a next level coach either. We are truly stuck right now. I do believe that. I also feel like Stock has brought us some success too. He hasn't been all bad.

Unless he retires, he's gonna be here as long as he wants. Same with Massaro. It's just how it is no matter what we may want. I used to be all in and now I'm beginning to look at my options on Saturdays now. It's not because of Stock or the FB team. It's because of the attitudes of the fans and the Athletic Dept. It's just drama now and I have enough of that with the 3 businesses I'm running. Why make time for something everyone runs down all of the time? It's just not fun for me anymore. I come to these boards and it's a miserable place 95% of the time. I think I need a break from it. I used to love this but now it may be time to do some other things on Saturdays and during the week.


Most people on here are not running the program down. We just want more for the university. What is wrong with pointing out all the flaws when you see them? Is there to be no accountability at all for the coach AD and president?
 
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There is no heat. No hard questions from beat writers. No big donors pushing the needle. No large fanbase to demand change. Just ho hum softball questions.

The .500 seasons are death by 1000 cuts as opposed to having some terrible years to enact change. Our situation stinks.
 
When did $800 become fish food. Some young stud would go for that and the title without haste.

"Do we have that, we are not going to get a Diaz or Craddock here for $800K a year. "
 
I’d guarantee there are guys out there, young guys that are full of energy and want their own program. Those that would be happy with 800k. Throw in some bonuses (for conference championships mind you, not 6 wins) and they’d be happy. Those that don’t necessarily want the pressure of P5. That maybe went to a G5 school and understand the needs.
 
There's only 125 of these jobs on the planet. Coaches will line up to get one of them.

Especially one that's not the dregs of the G5.
 
Maybe a high profile out of work HC looking to rehab his reputation by winning at a G5. I've heard Hugh Freeze wants to coach again. Nick Saban tried to hire him this season as a consultant.
 
You want to bring in a guy in that was just busted for major NCAA violations, disgraced, and was banging escorts or setting them up for recruits?
 
i don't believe he has a show cause. hell we need to up our recruiting game. he would be an instant upgrade probably get some big donors to give just to get him a job. ain't he friends with the touy's
 
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