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Stock’s contract, recent reports, and other considerations

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AustinLewis

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I’m creating a new thread for (almost) all things re : Stock contract. Central location. I know many have replied to the other thread, but it was lost in a discussion about BRAA donations. That’s fine. But I hate that a thread about the RECORD BRAA donations getting derailed because of Stock’s contract.

FOIA was my idea to get to the bottom of the contract situation for Massaro, Stock, and McD, done purely out of curiosity to see what their contract status was and share it with GoMiddle community.

As I now understand it, Stock's extension (to 2028, initially reported on Tuesday by me) was part of the automatic extension contracts in the earlier contracts. When Stock finished the 2018 / 2021 seasons with winning records, it triggered the automatic extension clause. Because of this, MT was contractually obligated to extend Stock's contract until 2028.

Because Stock's extension to 2028 was triggered by an existing contract, there was no PR release (this was the usual MT AD standard practice in the past). When there has been substantial or substantive changes to Stock's contract, MT has issued releases and discussed it publicly (see how it was handled when Stock took the paycut in 2015).

The reason for a new contract may be tied to state laws re: length of employee contracts. The is some new “legal” stuff in the new contract based on new state laws (and updates to existing laws). The new state laws provided another reason for a new contract.

The terms (pay, extensions, etc) are almost identical to previous contract, but the new contract is the result of a contractual obligation (to Stock) with an updated language.

FWIW, there's a time and place to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of the contract & extension (FWIW, former DNJ beat writer Adam Sparks chimed with some insightful thoughts on this), but MT AD did not intentionally hide the extension. The extension was part of previous contract and thus, MT was obligated to comply with the existing contract.
 
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Austin you still haven’t addressed how the then new contract in 2015 to 2023 got to be extended through 2028.

That contract stipulated that he could only trigger auto extensions and raises in the first five years. He met that three times in ‘16, ‘17, and ‘18 that should have extended him through 2026. The 2021 season should not have been eligible. Even if it was that would only be through 2027.

But to be honest, I really don’t care. This contract was and always has been an anchor on this program. Auto extensions for anything less than conference titles or top 25 finishes or things like that are indefensible.
 
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At the end of the day we are with Stock until he decides to hang it up or really struggles for 2 or 3 seasons. I’ll admit I was completely disgusted with our performance against JMU but it has been nice to see the bounce back with these last two games.

Yesterday’s game felt different. That’s the most fan engagement I’ve seen since I’ve been going to MT games (4th season). The students came out in a big way and actually stayed for the majority of the game. The beer garden was packed with mostly MT fans.

I understand people not wanting to support Stock by attending. I get it. The only thing I’ll say is if you didn’t go last night you really missed out. I had a blast and my group of non-MT fans were pleasantly surprised by the environment. Looking forward to homecoming!
 
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Glenn is right. It is what it is. I'm ready for a change but we aren't going to get one. I absolutely will still push for changes in his staff, and am not happy CM and McP put us in this spot, but I can't stop support. I bleed Blue and MT controls the bulk of my days this time of year. My house is covered in it, I wear MT blue constantly and have a tattoo that sure as heck isn't going anywhere. Not to mention my truck with its sticker same as my avatar, blue grill/tailgate emblems, and shoot. My license plate reads GO MT. I just can't be one of those to step away.

I debated keeping the Stock's record thread but I'm going to. Not as justification for him needing to move on, because there is plenty of that in there, but because I'm a numbers guy and it gives us quick reference when we have games like JMU.

But Austin, thanks for putting in the time and effort to get us that contract. We should know what is going on. I think the dept could be more transparent, and not just with contracts. With $, season tickets, actual tickets scanned, etc.

Here's to hoping for improvement on the field/court and off, as well as Lee sticking around.
 
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Question - if we'd be coming off a 2021 conference title with a top ranked recruiting class and big attendance and hype and excitement - would the MT have trumpeted this from the top of Floyd, or would they have just been like "meh, just contractural obligations, nothing to see here". I think we know the answer. Corruption and cronyism doesn't succeed this long because these people are dumb.

Anyone have a link to Sparks' comments. Apparently, he's the UTk beat writer now and his twitter feed is filled with UTk stuff and I couldn't find anything MT related. Good for him, being a sports journalist now is a lot tougher to move up than it used to be in the hey-day of newspapers, etc (I live in Knoxville and follow the Vols and had no idea he was the Vols beat guy. I also avoid twitter like the plague though.)

I've moved into the acceptance stage of grief. I was fiery mad a day or two ago. I even priced a large vinyl "Fire Stock" banner. Now, I've moved back into "meh whatever - let's see what the big SEC game is this week".
 
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If that is true, that is hilarious.

I think Chris used to be a writer for gomiddle at some time. I really don't care either way. What a foolish statement to make. These guys are definitely better at hearing themselves talk (to their small kingdoms) rather than being a businessman.
 
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JohnDavidBlue said:
If that is true, that is hilarious.

I think Chris used to be a writer for gomiddle at some time. I really don't care either way. What a foolish statement to make. These guys are definitely better at hearing themselves talk (to their small kingdoms) rather than being a businessman.
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Not word for word, but pretty much summed up his rant. He did say idiots. His radio show today coaches stock up/down segment.
 
Well then call me an idiot.

See below for example. Stock is #91 of winningest active coaches averaging 6.3 wins per year. Of coaches above him who have been at current schools longer than 10 years, there are 12.
Only Troy Calhoun at Air Force and Ken Niumatalolo at Navy in G5. Service academies. No other G5 coaches have been at their current school more than 10 yrs.

I'd love to compile a list of G5 coaches who were fired and their overall winning percentage in the past 16yrs. Heck, even 5yrs.

Winningest Active Coaches

Coaches Hot Seat provides the Coaches Hot Seat Rankings and Coaches Hot Seat Daily News to College Football fans everywhere.
www.coacheshotseat.com www.coacheshotseat.com

Middle is our name, not who we should be. I just do not understand people not wanting to win!
 
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SpaceRaider said:
View embedded media


View embedded media
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Thanks for digging those up.

I agree with Sparks prospective. From an objective outside view, a G5 program that is consistently going to bowl games, graduating its players, staying out of trouble - that's not so bad.

From the emotionally invested fan's perspective...well, we know where we are and how we feel about it.

The problem is the bar that was set needed to be the minimum performance standard to keep a job. Instead, it's treated like the goal line.

This reads like a gross miscalculation on MT AD's part - "assumed he would seek bigger opportunities". Even if you don't want Stock fired, it's absurd that they can't figure out a way to up the performance standards or incentivize greater success.
 
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When I knew him and worked with back during his time on campus he was a good dude. Knowledgeable (for a Brewers fan) but I believe he got a little bit of a big head over success perhaps. But more importantly he either tried to be overly objective when it comes to MT to avoid the bias accusations or he followed the sheep of big media that nothing good comes from anything but the P5. Not sure which, but disappointing either way.
 
While I have THORUOGHLY enjoyed the Miami win this week, this did nothing to change my stance that we need a complete changing of the guard at that university including SM, CM and CRS. This was a blind squirrel win if you use the past 16 years as your reference point.
 
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BRaiderDave said:
While I have THORUOGHLY enjoyed the Miami win this week, this did nothing to change my stance that we need a complete changing of the guard at that university including SM, CM and CRS. This was a blind squirrel win if you use the past 16 years as your reference point.
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While I generally agree with you, I will at least silence my thoughts for a couple more years if we come away with a W on 12/2/22. If we lose or don't play at all that day, I will be the same broken record I've been for the last several years.
 
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MT01 said:
When I knew him and worked with back during his time on campus he was a good dude. Knowledgeable (for a Brewers fan) but I believe he got a little bit of a big head over success perhaps.
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not to be rude, but what big success gave him a big head ? Last time I heard his name was 15ish years ago and he was still working for rivals. Did I miss something ?
 
I believe he has or had his own show on Sirius but not sure. Not a subscriber.
 
I always found him to be a likable guy back in the day on campus. From what I can remember from over the years, he was always pretty public on his radio show about his support for and alum status for MT.

I would like to know, just how much does he talk about MT Football on his college sports radio show? I'm not suggesting that MT is entitled to his free publicity on his radio show if he is still a fan and supporter. I am wondering how much noise MT Football has been making over the years to necessitate discussion and conversation on a College Sports radio show.

If he has been talking up MT anyways, then good on him. If not, shouldn't that be a red flag that MT is rarely ever achieving enough success to demand talk on college sports talk radio? As far as I can tell, MT Football has been irrelevant to the larger college football sports radio world outside of in and around campus. Myself, I'd like to see a lot more of the talk and buzz like MT Football has received this week as a result of a big win. Good success would bring more publicity and buzz to MT in sports media.
 
My question to Chris is where was he in 19, 20 and 21? In 20, we were hammered by Army. Was he calling us idiots then? If we had gotten killed by Miami would we be idiots then? Stock has a lifetime .500 record. I'm giving him.a pass because of the 3 straight wins we've had. but that doesn't change the fact we are stuck with a .500 coach.
 
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Still unclear on this. The discrepancies I noted previously.

Also, not clear if this part of the contract + extensions or if the contract was reworked?

The previous contract called for 7 wins not six. But it's listed as six above. This sounds like a new contract. We need clarification on this. The AD ignoring this is just more of the same problems of this university giving the middle finger to the alumni/fans. How hard would it be to throw a statement on Twitter?

I'm still not giving another penny or stepping foot on that campus until there is some accountability. I recommend you all do the same if you can stomach it. If we don't demand a winning culture one is never going to come. And this is how we vote.
 
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MT01 said:
Still unclear on this. The discrepancies I noted previously.

Also, not clear if this part of the contract + extensions or if the contract was reworked?

The previous contract called for 7 wins not six. But it's listed as six above. This sounds like a new contract. We need clarification on this. The AD ignoring this is just more of the same problems of this university giving the middle finger to the alumni/fans. How hard would it be to throw a statement on Twitter?

I'm still not giving another penny or stepping foot on that campus until there is some accountability. I recommend you all do the same if you can stomach it. If we don't demand a winning culture one is never going to come. And this is how we vote.
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A couple of things re: Stock's contract. They've been posted elsewhere and I'll try to summarize here.

1) MT was contractually obligated to extend Stock due to the extension clauses in the original contract. In the original contract they were :
  • APR 940+
  • Overall winning record or at least 5 conference wins
  • No Level I or Level II NCAA violations.
It had been extended a couple of times (through 3 different amendments). Like it or not, the contractual language required MT to extend him again.

2) This (the most recent extension that was initially reported by me) took the form of a new contract for several reasons that I have mentioned in various threads on GoMiddle (and I believe on twitter) for one big reason : Changes in state law required some "updates" to the contract (IIRC, language re: sports gambling). The "new contract" (that functionally is an extension of the old one) actually raises the bar
  • APR 940+
  • Win 50% of games or at least 6 conference wins
  • No Level I or Level II violations.
 
Oh, I agree the extension for 50% / 6 conference wins seems to set the bar a little low. IMO, it should be 8/9 wins or conference championship. But, that's just my opinion.

Setting the bar at .500 seems to set the bar a little low. Championships - 8, 9, 10 win seasons - need to be the minimum bar for a "successful season."
 
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AustinLewis said:
A couple of things re: Stock's contract. They've been posted elsewhere and I'll try to summarize here.

1) MT was contractually obligated to extend Stock due to the extension clauses in the original contract. In the original contract they were :
  • APR 940+
  • Overall winning record or at least 5 conference wins
  • No Level I or Level II NCAA violations.
It had been extended a couple of times (through 3 different amendments). Like it or not, the contractual language required MT to extend him again.

2) This (the most recent extension that was initially reported by me) took the form of a new contract for several reasons that I have mentioned in various threads on GoMiddle (and I believe on twitter) for one big reason : Changes in state law required some "updates" to the contract (IIRC, language re: sports gambling). The "new contract" (that functionally is an extension of the old one) actually raises the bar
  • APR 940+
  • Win 50% of games or at least 6 conference wins
  • No Level I or Level II violations.
Click to expand...
It does not raise the bar. 50% is 6-6. The previous contract required 7 wins (or five conference wins). The first contract called for only six wins (or four conference wins). So, it's raise from the first extension received from a conference only perspective but not in total wins.

Moreover, the biggest issue that I have is that there was previously a cap on the number of times he could receive automatic extensions. That cap had been met. So, what you're saying is not only were total wins lowered from seven to six in this "new" contract it also restarted the ability for CRS to receive automatic extensions again (whereas they had been capped out previously)?

Why would our idiot leadership reinstitute the most egregious part of this contract - the part that every single person of logical reasoning capacity who still cares about this program despised - when the limits had already been reached?? Why reset the automatic extension language clause? I very seriously doubt I will return to my alma mater again (at least in this decade).

At least I have a UT degree too. They're actually showing signs of life again (maybe). So, good luck to all of you.
 
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MT01 said:
It does not raise the bar. 50% is 6-6. The previous contract required 7 wins (or five conference wins). The first contract called for only six wins (or four conference wins). So, it's raise from the first extension received from a conference only perspective but not in total wins.
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Read the previous contract again. I just did to verify. Pulled it up a 2nd time just to make sure. You can read it here. Note the difference between the contracts :

Contract signed August 2013 (linked above)
  • APR 940+
  • Overall winning record or at least 5 conference wins
  • No Level I or Level II NCAA violations.
Contract signed August 2022
  • APR 940+
  • Win 50% of games or at least 6 conference wins
  • No Level I or Level II violations.
MT01 said:
Moreover, the biggest issue that I have is that there was previously a cap on the number of times he could receive automatic extensions. That cap had been met. So, what you're saying is not only were total wins lowered from seven to six in this "new" contract it also restarted the ability for CRS to receive automatic extensions again (whereas they had been capped out previously)?

Why would our idiot leadership reinstitute the most egregious part of this contract - the part that every single person of logical reasoning capacity who still cares about this program despised - when the limits had already been reached?? Why reset the automatic extension language clause? I very seriously doubt I will return to my alma mater again (at least in this decade).

At least I have a UT degree too. They're actually showing signs of life again (maybe). So, good luck to all of you.
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I know we've talked about the "cap" on extensions before. Not sure where that was initially reported, nor am I a contract lawyer. Merely hitting the highlights that are understandable for the non-lawyers in the room.
 
Sadly it is what it is at this point. I'm not mad at Stock. He has performed the requirements to keep his job that were laid out.

It's all on CM and McPhee. And it is what it is. I'll still speak my mind, but I myself am not going anywhere. I have too much blue in my veins to do that.

My hope is the new facilities allow Stock to achieve more. Only time will tell on that, and as the contract shows, we have plenty of that.
 
AustinLewis said:
Read the previous contract again. I just did to verify. Pulled it up a 2nd time just to make sure. You can read it here. Note the difference between the contracts :

Contract signed August 2013 (linked above)
  • APR 940+
  • Overall winning record or at least 5 conference wins
  • No Level I or Level II NCAA violations.
Contract signed August 2022
  • APR 940+
  • Win 50% of games or at least 6 conference wins
  • No Level I or Level II violations.

I know we've talked about the "cap" on extensions before. Not sure where that was initially reported, nor am I a contract lawyer. Merely hitting the highlights that are understandable for the non-lawyers in the room.
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I'm reporting it by reading the contract. And you don't need a law degree to understand it....

This AMENDMENT I to the Employment Agreement between RICHARD WILSON
STOCKSTILL ("Coach") and MIDDLE TENNESSEE STATE UNIVERSITY
("University") effective July 1, 2013 ("Agreement"), is effective January 1, 2014.
WITNESS ETH:

WHEREAS, effective January 1, 2011, University and Coach agreed to a
series of automatic one-year contract extensions and $100,000 salary increases if
coach met certain defined benchmarks.

WHEREAS, said contract extensions and salary increases were obtainable
annually for a maximum period of five years and a maximum total salary increase of
$500,000.

WHEREAS, Coach met said benchmarks during the 2010/2011 contractual
year (Year 1) and the 2012/2013 contractual year (Year 3) and his contract was
extended and his salary increased accordingly.

WHEREAS, Coach met said benchmarks again during the 2013/2014
contractual year (Year 4) and, therefore, is due an additional $100,000 salary
increase and one-year contract extension.
 
MT01 said:
I'm reporting it by reading the contract. And you don't need a law degree to understand it....

This AMENDMENT I to the Employment Agreement between RICHARD WILSON
STOCKSTILL ("Coach") and MIDDLE TENNESSEE STATE UNIVERSITY
("University") effective July 1, 2013 ("Agreement"), is effective January 1, 2014.
WITNESS ETH:

WHEREAS, effective January 1, 2011, University and Coach agreed to a
series of automatic one-year contract extensions and $100,000 salary increases if
coach met certain defined benchmarks.

WHEREAS, said contract extensions and salary increases were obtainable
annually for a maximum period of five years and a maximum total salary increase of
$500,000.
Click to expand...
Thanks for catching the clause. My focus was on other sections of contract!
 
Even if he loses the next two (which kills the required 6 CUSA wins) he’s still ours for pretty much until he reaches retirement age. Why? Because whoever the boosters are that signed on to the guaranteed buyout won’t be held accountable to pay him 7 figures to go away.
 
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