Actually, and most unfortunately, we're not used to that, either. If only that were true. That just doesn't happen at Middle Tennessee, as it should on a much more frequent basis.
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BASKETBALL Fagan, Buffen ask for release; Carlos Curry still undecided
- Thread starter MTLynn
- Start date
Actually, and most unfortunately, we're not used to that, either. If only that were true. That just doesn't happen at Middle Tennessee, as it should on a much more frequent basis.
On subject of Massaro, I think he started to come under a fair amount of fire during this past football season. Obviously, coach stock has been under fire for a few seasons.
During basketball season, mediocre is not even remotely close to accurate in describing the performance and outcomes of the basketball team. With all of that success during bball season, the heat on Massaro seemed to ease up.
Generally speaking, I like what I heard from Massaro during his public rounds for the coaching change. It's not what I expected as I'm one that also has a somewhat unfavorable attitude regarding Massaro back in the football season. Additionally, some public movement on the athletics master plan was a welcome sight. I'm also starting to wonder if the new governing board for MT is starting to bring about changes with MT that is opening things up for people like Massaro to present some goals and plans.
During basketball season, mediocre is not even remotely close to accurate in describing the performance and outcomes of the basketball team. With all of that success during bball season, the heat on Massaro seemed to ease up.
Generally speaking, I like what I heard from Massaro during his public rounds for the coaching change. It's not what I expected as I'm one that also has a somewhat unfavorable attitude regarding Massaro back in the football season. Additionally, some public movement on the athletics master plan was a welcome sight. I'm also starting to wonder if the new governing board for MT is starting to bring about changes with MT that is opening things up for people like Massaro to present some goals and plans.
For me, there is no ledge to step back from and I'm not butthurt. This BB program will slide back into obscurity. That's what I'm predicting will happen. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think I am. Massaro didn't make a great hire and he let Kermit take everything that wasn't bolted down while getting a huge payday.
If some of you guys think I'm overreacting, that's fine. However, I'm not pleased with the state of this program. I have the right to feel that way. Hope I'm wrong but I think we're in for under performance and a lot of losses.
If some of you guys think I'm overreacting, that's fine. However, I'm not pleased with the state of this program. I have the right to feel that way. Hope I'm wrong but I think we're in for under performance and a lot of losses.
I'd say I'm inbetween. IMO, we will never see the success again in my life time that we had under Kermit the last half decade. So much exposure, huge upset over Michigan St, followed up by beating Minnesota in the first round as well. We were so incorrectly seeded and so good as a 12 seed against Minnesota that we were one of the only 12's to ever be favored over a 5. We were insanely good. Potts, Upshaw, JaCorey Williams, Nick King....Legendary players that I'm not sure we'll ever see again in terms of the caliber they provided to our program. First two years will be rough, especially the 2nd, and then we'll see what McDevitt is worth in years 3 and beyond.
Really bothers me already knowing the next 2 years are a wash and makes me not care about the program anymore. WKU & Marshall will be running this league from now on. I was really starting to favor MT Basketball over MT Football too, which is something I would never thought I would come around to. Of course Kermit leaves when we are right on the precipice and, like you said, takes everything that wasn't bolted down effectively screwing our program for the immediate future and likely the long-term as well.
It's whatever. The ride was run while it lasted. Wish we could have beaten Syracuse or Butler and gone to the Sweet 16, but whatever. I'm at peace with it. It's over. As MT fans, we were lucky to get what we got all things considered. McDevitt will deliver competitive teams, eventually, but we'll never be what we were.
Really bothers me already knowing the next 2 years are a wash and makes me not care about the program anymore. WKU & Marshall will be running this league from now on. I was really starting to favor MT Basketball over MT Football too, which is something I would never thought I would come around to. Of course Kermit leaves when we are right on the precipice and, like you said, takes everything that wasn't bolted down effectively screwing our program for the immediate future and likely the long-term as well.
It's whatever. The ride was run while it lasted. Wish we could have beaten Syracuse or Butler and gone to the Sweet 16, but whatever. I'm at peace with it. It's over. As MT fans, we were lucky to get what we got all things considered. McDevitt will deliver competitive teams, eventually, but we'll never be what we were.
You’re entitled to you’re own opinion for sure JT although I’m not sure what you wanted in regards to our new head coach. CNM seems like a good hire for what what was realistically in play for us.
Kermit took us to new heights but honestly I don’t think he could have taken us much higher with his skill set. Kermit took most of our coaching staff and most likely our recruits but the cupboard is far from dry. Even if the recruiting class stayed next year would have been hard to match our recent success.
People tend to forget the 10 years of mediocracy prior to our recent run. Kermit’s overall body of work would have suggested a decline at some point and he probably saw it coming. He was on fire from the transfer and jucos as of late but their is no way that strategy could have led to sustained success year in and out. I honestly think CNM has just as good of a chance to replicate that success that Kermit enjoyed year and possibly more. Time will tell.
Kermit took us to new heights but honestly I don’t think he could have taken us much higher with his skill set. Kermit took most of our coaching staff and most likely our recruits but the cupboard is far from dry. Even if the recruiting class stayed next year would have been hard to match our recent success.
People tend to forget the 10 years of mediocracy prior to our recent run. Kermit’s overall body of work would have suggested a decline at some point and he probably saw it coming. He was on fire from the transfer and jucos as of late but their is no way that strategy could have led to sustained success year in and out. I honestly think CNM has just as good of a chance to replicate that success that Kermit enjoyed year and possibly more. Time will tell.
And if you’re mad at the state of the program there is no one to blame but the almighty Frog.
UNCA was top 10 in the country in steals just 2 years ago with a 2 time Def POY who was 4th in the country in steals; past 3 seasons MTSU has allowed 66.3 pts/game, UNCA was 70 pts/gm.. perhaps you're defining defense differently than some of the metrics suggest.. take your emotions out of these irrational statements or at least be objective about what you consider "real D".. plus I'd love for you to show me a link to more than just the 1 UNCA/Clemson game on YouTube but I digress.. Since you have no idea what you're really talking about let me provide an insight as someone who has actually seen a few hundred UNCA games.. CNM while @UNCA utilized a half-court 1-3-1 much of the time these last 2 years but usually doesn't drop out of it.. likes to use the 1-3-1 to slow down teams by forcing slow lollipop passes and tries to prevent quick ball movement/rotation.. otherwise CNM tends to show varying defensive looks so we saw man-man, 2-3, and some point zone.. the 1-3-1 has been pretty effective with tall, long guards/versatile forwards.. I believe MTSU struggled against CNM's defense in 2015 in the Great Alaska Shootout.. 63-61 barn burner..
I certainly don't know Grensing and it sounds like some here are quite fond of the man which is understandable.. but it's telling that CKD didn't take him along and I've heard some non-flattering things from non-message board folks your way that know the MTSU program well as to why CKD didn't take him.. aside from that which may/may not be true if you're CNM you can't hire a guy that has every reason to see you fail if Grensing feels he should be the head coach.. no head coach is likely to trust that other guy who didn't get your job- CNM would be stupid to put his livelihood at risk of someone who could submarine or be cancerous to his efforts..
I find this idea that we will not be as successful ridiculous. We had a stretch in the 1980s very similar to the last 5-6 years with multiple NCAA and NIT bids and big wins. I see no reason why CNM isn't successful. My hope is he will be a better recruiter and we will develop our 4 year players and supplement with a JC or Grad transfer. Frankly I am excited about the change. Go Blue Raiders.
Not trying to undermine your broader points overall, but with respect to scoring defense, I hope you understand there is a massive difference between 66 points per game and 70 points per game when you are talking about the averages. It's the difference of typically being top 30 in scoring defense vs being outside the top 100. It's a bigger delta than you make it sound just because its four points a game. Because so many games are won and lost in the last couple of minutes these days those four points make a huge difference.
For a better reference point, over the past five years Middle Tennessee's average scoring defense rank was 45th in the nation including two top 25 finishes (and this past season at #35). Asheville on the other hand's scoring defense rank over the previous five years is 208 with only one finish in the top 100 (two years ago and that was only 96th). Further, if you look at defensive efficiency Asheville proved to be slighlty better there but still the five year averages were 56 vs. 177. Based on these numbers, JT has a valid argument. So, the question will be can his offense make up the difference? Time will tell.
Agreed, but I was speaking of the few times it HAS happened since 1997 when I moved here and began following MT athletics. (Wiel, McCollum, etc.).
Oh I remember those years and our athletic department was in shambles. Kermit still had winning seasons. Randy Weil drove our program in to the dirt with an Auger and Kermit had to dig it out and eventually find the right assistants and chemistry with the right players to get it done. Since 2011, Kermit was on another level. That's 7 years of sustained success.
"Kermit took us to new heights" Kermit took us to a whole different level. When were we nationally ranked before him? When did we pack 11,600 into the Glass House on national TV before him? When did we lose like 1 SEC game in the last 3 years before him? Who else took us to places like UCLA and Ole Miss and beat those teams by 20 points or more? Who else took us to 3 NCAA tourneys in 5 years? Sorry man, you can pose whatever defense you want but this coach is walking into a new and depleted situation with a different offense and defense. We're not gonna dip, we're gonna plummet. Can he eventually get us back to winning and competing for titles? We'll see but I'm not optimistic at this point.
It's not doom and gloom, it's the truth. Also, we had 3 of the best recruits we've ever had sign and this dude couldn't get them to stay for a millisecond. That tells me all I need to know for now. We're starting from scratch and that ain't good.
I appreciate your loyalty. It's rare these days. CNM wasn't our first choice. He was like our 5th from what I've heard so pardon me for not being hyped about this change. We did some cool stuff before so it's tough to take right now. I'll be alright in a year or so.
I'll call BS on that too. I blame Massaro for his ineffective leadership and lack of having the balls to offer more cash to Kermit to get him to stay or to Forbes. He let our 3 top recruits just walk with no restriction on where they could end up. They could go to WKU if they want. Stupid move. Sorry, I put my Blue Kool Aid down on this one. Those who know me on the board know that I've been posting over here for over 13 years. I've defended this program for a long long time. Some of these moves lately has about done it for me. We'll see what happens this fall on the football field.
I hope CNM can prove me dead wrong. If he can, I'll own these comments and eat a big ol plate of crow.
JT,
I gotta say. I envy your optimism every year for our football team....that being said, I don't know how you can be so down on the BB program in the infancy of the coaching hire where you have so much optimism for football.
I gotta say. I envy your optimism every year for our football team....that being said, I don't know how you can be so down on the BB program in the infancy of the coaching hire where you have so much optimism for football.
I'm going to wait until we see who's in this class of recruits before I go off the deep end regarding this staff and the future of the program. I really didn't expect anything yet since the signing period lasts over a month so I'm trying to be patient. Gotta see how it shakes out.
As an aside: According to an article in this morning's Tennessean WKU is refusing to give their women's BkB signee, Akira Levy from Upperman High, an unconditional release and will prohibit her signing with another C-USA school. Same situation we had with our recruits except we don't know if Clark-Heard is recruiting Levy to Cincinnati but an entirely different approach from the administration.
As an aside: According to an article in this morning's Tennessean WKU is refusing to give their women's BkB signee, Akira Levy from Upperman High, an unconditional release and will prohibit her signing with another C-USA school. Same situation we had with our recruits except we don't know if Clark-Heard is recruiting Levy to Cincinnati but an entirely different approach from the administration.
Massaro is not a strong weak AD. This situation is just one instance where he makes not sense, but he has a small school mentality and it keeps us stuck in mediocrity.
This school has so many things going for it and the potential is quite large, with it's location, size of the alumni base, corporations in Nashville, so many things. Yet, we can't even get an indoor practice facility for football built. There are high school programs that have had this for years!
The AD position needs an upgrade. I like the guy a lot, but I don't see the needle moving much.
This school has so many things going for it and the potential is quite large, with it's location, size of the alumni base, corporations in Nashville, so many things. Yet, we can't even get an indoor practice facility for football built. There are high school programs that have had this for years!
The AD position needs an upgrade. I like the guy a lot, but I don't see the needle moving much.
JT,
Frankly, your input was what I found most unexpected. While I'm not sure I can put your face with your name here, I have been seeing your name posting around here for many years. Particularly with the last few years with football, your attitude has been remarkably upbeat and optimistic when even most other diehards have grown tired of the years of mediocrity. So it has really puzzled me to see you so down on the new coach to the point of almost cursing his newly starting tenure.
Much has been made recently in this thread regarding defense. I'm not sure I can add all that much here especially since CNM has yet to even coach one day of regular season basketball at MT. Sure his record at UNC-A can be suggestive. Upon CNM hiring, I was not overly impressed with his defensive record at first glance. Steals and low turnovers on the offensive side did standout. Rebounding I found to be unimpressive, not bad but not great. I hope rebounding can be more of a priority for CNM, but I come to this discussion after years of being schooled in Kermit defense which is one of the more intense defenses in the country. Still, it took Kermit 10 years to find players to stick with Kermit's defensive system. Even after that, Kermit's recruiting classes were never much on being highly rated. To the point, the last couple of years it has been a rebuild job each season. Had Kermit even stayed, this upcoming season would in all likelihood have been one of many ups and downs.
This is meant more as a rhetorical question, but I have to wonder if your attitude is influenced by personal relationships. Sometimes personal connections and loyalty can explain contrary and almost unexpected attitudes. Regardless if my musings are remotely accurate or not, it does seem premature to see such harsh predictions and expectations. Ultimately, I don't know what time will unveil. Maybe CNM won't have MT playing as strong and intensely on defense as Kermit coached. Then again, maybe CNM will be able to recruit higher rated players for a core for the team to be built around. This much does seem apparent, CNM had good success as a young coach at his level (Big South Conf) of D1 basketball. Likely a pretty fair measure especially since his program wasn't exactly funded or supported that well even for it's conference. Given those circumstances, he appears to have done an outstanding job of recruiting.
All and all, I'm willing to give the guy a chance. I'm somewhat hopeful that the new young coach can bring some exciting times to MT bball with a shot for new levels of success over the next few years.
Mention of Massaro has gotten into the mix here also. While related, Massaro is somewhat of a different discussion in my opinion. I will add that CNM being the 5th alternate of a choice for HC comes as a surprise. Were four other coaches really interviewed and offered a pay package before CNM? For MT, his hiring occurred at an almost lightning speed. For MT to have had time to offer and be declined by four other coaches is a little hard to find believable. It was widely circulated or believed that Massaro was high on the ETSU coach for the last two years. I understand feelers were put out, but the ETSU wasn't interested especially in the light of a shiny new pay raise and contract at ETSU. Was that coach brought in and formally offered? If so, it would be plain to see he would be counted as one who declined. If feelers were put out with little to no interest, I wouldn't necessarily call that MT's 5th choice. Then again, maybe I'm misunderstanding the discussion if one is referring to a priority list Massaro may have referenced. Lastly, it really goes counter to the prevailing perception even on a national level in that MT bball HC position was an attractive job.
Frankly, your input was what I found most unexpected. While I'm not sure I can put your face with your name here, I have been seeing your name posting around here for many years. Particularly with the last few years with football, your attitude has been remarkably upbeat and optimistic when even most other diehards have grown tired of the years of mediocrity. So it has really puzzled me to see you so down on the new coach to the point of almost cursing his newly starting tenure.
Much has been made recently in this thread regarding defense. I'm not sure I can add all that much here especially since CNM has yet to even coach one day of regular season basketball at MT. Sure his record at UNC-A can be suggestive. Upon CNM hiring, I was not overly impressed with his defensive record at first glance. Steals and low turnovers on the offensive side did standout. Rebounding I found to be unimpressive, not bad but not great. I hope rebounding can be more of a priority for CNM, but I come to this discussion after years of being schooled in Kermit defense which is one of the more intense defenses in the country. Still, it took Kermit 10 years to find players to stick with Kermit's defensive system. Even after that, Kermit's recruiting classes were never much on being highly rated. To the point, the last couple of years it has been a rebuild job each season. Had Kermit even stayed, this upcoming season would in all likelihood have been one of many ups and downs.
This is meant more as a rhetorical question, but I have to wonder if your attitude is influenced by personal relationships. Sometimes personal connections and loyalty can explain contrary and almost unexpected attitudes. Regardless if my musings are remotely accurate or not, it does seem premature to see such harsh predictions and expectations. Ultimately, I don't know what time will unveil. Maybe CNM won't have MT playing as strong and intensely on defense as Kermit coached. Then again, maybe CNM will be able to recruit higher rated players for a core for the team to be built around. This much does seem apparent, CNM had good success as a young coach at his level (Big South Conf) of D1 basketball. Likely a pretty fair measure especially since his program wasn't exactly funded or supported that well even for it's conference. Given those circumstances, he appears to have done an outstanding job of recruiting.
All and all, I'm willing to give the guy a chance. I'm somewhat hopeful that the new young coach can bring some exciting times to MT bball with a shot for new levels of success over the next few years.
Mention of Massaro has gotten into the mix here also. While related, Massaro is somewhat of a different discussion in my opinion. I will add that CNM being the 5th alternate of a choice for HC comes as a surprise. Were four other coaches really interviewed and offered a pay package before CNM? For MT, his hiring occurred at an almost lightning speed. For MT to have had time to offer and be declined by four other coaches is a little hard to find believable. It was widely circulated or believed that Massaro was high on the ETSU coach for the last two years. I understand feelers were put out, but the ETSU wasn't interested especially in the light of a shiny new pay raise and contract at ETSU. Was that coach brought in and formally offered? If so, it would be plain to see he would be counted as one who declined. If feelers were put out with little to no interest, I wouldn't necessarily call that MT's 5th choice. Then again, maybe I'm misunderstanding the discussion if one is referring to a priority list Massaro may have referenced. Lastly, it really goes counter to the prevailing perception even on a national level in that MT bball HC position was an attractive job.
To be honest, I'm tired. It's just been one bush league move after another for a long time. Massaro is not a great leader and we're seeing the effects now. I don't trust his leadership or decision making skills so when he stands up and tells me what a great coach CNM is, I immediately roll my eyes. He has yet to hire greatness. He hasn't done it so how in the hell would he know what it is? Kermit gave Chris time to counter offer. He did. I've talked to several folks within and yeah, CKD didn't just run for the door. Massaro could have made an attempt and didn't. Then, when he leaves he approaches known up an comers but then extends weak offers. Now we get like our 5th choice and he wants us to be pumped about it. I'm not. Then he let's these 3 guys walk with no restrictions on where they go. WKU had the balls to do the right thing for their program but Massaro doesn't just like the coaches he's hired.
As far as CNM, I went and watched like 15 games he coached and my impressions from those games are what fueled a lot of what I've said. He isn't gonna take us back to where we've been unless he completely changes everything he does and he won't do that. Y'all talked about Kermit taking 10 years to achieve success on a higher level. It will take this guy 20. I could be wrong but his coaching in critical situations is suspect at best. Like I've said, I'm tired. Give him a chance? Sure. What choice do we have? I'll give it a whirl but I'm not excited right now.
Yeah, I've been a loyal dog for a long time but I'm tired.
As far as CNM, I went and watched like 15 games he coached and my impressions from those games are what fueled a lot of what I've said. He isn't gonna take us back to where we've been unless he completely changes everything he does and he won't do that. Y'all talked about Kermit taking 10 years to achieve success on a higher level. It will take this guy 20. I could be wrong but his coaching in critical situations is suspect at best. Like I've said, I'm tired. Give him a chance? Sure. What choice do we have? I'll give it a whirl but I'm not excited right now.
Yeah, I've been a loyal dog for a long time but I'm tired.
Good Lord! The guy hasn't coached one game and the sky is falling! Ohhhhh nooooooo!!!!!!!! Doom and gloom!!!!!!!!!! hehehe.
In all seriousness JT.....I personally am fine with the hire. He can get a team to the NCAA tourney and has proven that. Kermit learned how to be a good recruiter while here and never had taken a team to the dance. He was almost fired. Look at the first 8 years. He was given mucho grace and LUCKILY it paid off.
As for Stock? I am 100% confident he knows that he must win a championship this year or Stockball is over. I am a big fan of Stock but even I am frustrated to the point of moving on. This is Chris' baby and Chris has been mucho patient with Stock. In return for his patience the fanbase is starting to lose faith in Chris. I think Chris senses this.
Players being allowed to leave? These players came here because of Kermit... period. Players transfer all the time. Making a player stay here against their will can easily breed contempt. I would use WKU's not letting people out as a weapon against them in recruiting battles.
BTW....I am just a mushroom with an opinion. I now am the most uninformed fan on planet earth. Lack of available info plus not living in the boro has caused this. That more than anything has made me lose interest. We can't even get an accurate depth chart on this site. I listen to 104.5 in the mornings and they have a guy get on there for 30 minutes a morning talking about everything related to the Knoxville sports programs. Those fans are unbelievably informed which is why they continue to be rabid fans. What a novel concept. I am sure we can find, as usual, many excuses for why our fans are so uninformed. I do like the huge billboard in Nashville celebrating Byard being an all-pro safety for the Titans. That was a good move.
In all seriousness JT.....I personally am fine with the hire. He can get a team to the NCAA tourney and has proven that. Kermit learned how to be a good recruiter while here and never had taken a team to the dance. He was almost fired. Look at the first 8 years. He was given mucho grace and LUCKILY it paid off.
As for Stock? I am 100% confident he knows that he must win a championship this year or Stockball is over. I am a big fan of Stock but even I am frustrated to the point of moving on. This is Chris' baby and Chris has been mucho patient with Stock. In return for his patience the fanbase is starting to lose faith in Chris. I think Chris senses this.
Players being allowed to leave? These players came here because of Kermit... period. Players transfer all the time. Making a player stay here against their will can easily breed contempt. I would use WKU's not letting people out as a weapon against them in recruiting battles.
BTW....I am just a mushroom with an opinion. I now am the most uninformed fan on planet earth. Lack of available info plus not living in the boro has caused this. That more than anything has made me lose interest. We can't even get an accurate depth chart on this site. I listen to 104.5 in the mornings and they have a guy get on there for 30 minutes a morning talking about everything related to the Knoxville sports programs. Those fans are unbelievably informed which is why they continue to be rabid fans. What a novel concept. I am sure we can find, as usual, many excuses for why our fans are so uninformed. I do like the huge billboard in Nashville celebrating Byard being an all-pro safety for the Titans. That was a good move.
JT: a lot of us are tired and frustrated. It seems as if we can't sustain any success we have and every time we take an apparent step forward it has little to no impact.
Did going D-1 in FB change MT's image among casual sports fans in the mid-state?
MT has been D-1 in FB for almost two decades and not a single outright conference championship in comparatively weak conferences.
Is FB attendance significantly above the FCS level we had in the OVC?
Men's golf and Volleyball were on the cusp of national prominence a few short years ago and where are they now?
What has happened to Insell's talk of "Great 8s and Final 4s"? Program is in much worse shape today than what Smith left for the next coach.
Softball seems to be somewhat competitive this year but it's taken Breeden several years to get to mediocrity.
And let's don't even mention baseball. Oh wait, I just did.
T & F along with CC are still good under Hayes but it's apparent we won't win T & F championships in C-USA because we don't field full teams when compared to the top squads. (Recruiting budget or scholarship limits?) Gotta be frustrating for Hayes with his success in OVC and The Belt.
And as for raising money: We can't even get needed improvements to have average facilities in C-USA. The plan recently laid out will take decades at the rate we raise money. Saw the Nissan banner at Ole Miss during Davis' introduction. Even with Nissan's mid-state presence (even in Rutherford Co.) they chose not to list MT among the schools they support.
Yes JT, it's almost impossible not to become tired if we've been around a while. Men's BkB over the last 7 years has been the only redeeming factor; "saving grace" if you will; and now we're fearful we'll lose that. Let's hope our fears don't become reality.
Did going D-1 in FB change MT's image among casual sports fans in the mid-state?
MT has been D-1 in FB for almost two decades and not a single outright conference championship in comparatively weak conferences.
Is FB attendance significantly above the FCS level we had in the OVC?
Men's golf and Volleyball were on the cusp of national prominence a few short years ago and where are they now?
What has happened to Insell's talk of "Great 8s and Final 4s"? Program is in much worse shape today than what Smith left for the next coach.
Softball seems to be somewhat competitive this year but it's taken Breeden several years to get to mediocrity.
And let's don't even mention baseball. Oh wait, I just did.
T & F along with CC are still good under Hayes but it's apparent we won't win T & F championships in C-USA because we don't field full teams when compared to the top squads. (Recruiting budget or scholarship limits?) Gotta be frustrating for Hayes with his success in OVC and The Belt.
And as for raising money: We can't even get needed improvements to have average facilities in C-USA. The plan recently laid out will take decades at the rate we raise money. Saw the Nissan banner at Ole Miss during Davis' introduction. Even with Nissan's mid-state presence (even in Rutherford Co.) they chose not to list MT among the schools they support.
Yes JT, it's almost impossible not to become tired if we've been around a while. Men's BkB over the last 7 years has been the only redeeming factor; "saving grace" if you will; and now we're fearful we'll lose that. Let's hope our fears don't become reality.
That's all I'm saying. The sky isn't falling but Massaro hires a coach with no ties to the recruits we had and has a totally different style with a depleted roster. That's the reality. Again, letting the players go was fine. Letting them go anywhere with no restrictions is what I have problems with. When they are dunking on us and dropping 30 over our non defense, I'll come back and ask if it was a good idea.
Lol at this thread.
Football has been decending like the Tiangong 1 and people are losing it on a coach that hasn’t been here a month.
Football has been decending like the Tiangong 1 and people are losing it on a coach that hasn’t been here a month.
My thoughts exactly JDB. Can’t understand how people are upset over the state of basketball when nothing hasn’t even happened yet. Talk about knee jerk reactions. Might be that football season is getting close and we all know what that brings....
This recruiting class is crucial. Can't put into words how crucial if we plan to maintain any type of continued national success. That's why it was so important for us to keep our recruiting class intact, which didn't happen.
We were already in for a rebuilding year, maybe two, WITH Fagan, Buffen, Curry, and Kermit.
Now, we lose them all. Where do you think that leaves us?
Again, the 3 players we sign over the coming month are crucial. I cannot overstate the importance of bringing in 3 quality players that can help keep this train rolling.
The success or failure of CNM and our program will be traced back to what happens this very month. That might not be fair, but life isn't fair either.
We cannot afford to lose the momentum we've established the last half decade. And if we don't sign 3 really good players this month then that's going to happen because were gonna get our tails kicked in CUSA the next few years with our roster as is.
We were already in for a rebuilding year, maybe two, WITH Fagan, Buffen, Curry, and Kermit.
Now, we lose them all. Where do you think that leaves us?
Again, the 3 players we sign over the coming month are crucial. I cannot overstate the importance of bringing in 3 quality players that can help keep this train rolling.
The success or failure of CNM and our program will be traced back to what happens this very month. That might not be fair, but life isn't fair either.
We cannot afford to lose the momentum we've established the last half decade. And if we don't sign 3 really good players this month then that's going to happen because were gonna get our tails kicked in CUSA the next few years with our roster as is.
McDevitt has a great track record of signing talent. I see no reason why the train won't keep rolling
We have been in a rebuilding year every year because of the way Kermit recruited. Walters a transfer, King a grad transfer...if we are rebuilding its because we didn't recruit for sustainability.
Kermit had a lot of luck with specific players the last 6 years, 3 guys were one and done and one Shawn Jones had one special year.
I disagree with the luck statement. Sure, 1 or 2 players and it's lucky. But Kermit consistently brought in talented players from ALL areas (high school, JUCO, grad transfer) and got the most out of them. That's not luck, that's good coaching and player development and it's why Kermit is no longer here.
If CNM is unable to bring in impact players right now, this train is going off the tracks.
We cannot afford to go into a hole for a few years and disappear off the national scene. We were just on the precipice of breaking through.
If all three of those guys stayed we would have still most likely taken a step back this coming year. None of them are good enough to be impact players their freshman year. I think all three can "potentially" turn into good players but that will take time.
Kermit it was never a good recruiter. He was good with working with the players he got but we never got some of the players that equal or less prestigious schools were able to sign. An example is ULL who has had several NBA players come through their school the last couple of years. Murray state has had a few as well along with many others. McDevitt will bring in players that I don't think Kermit could ever get. We will have to wait and see how good of an X and O guys he is.
Kermit took players and helped them realize their potential. He went after them from day one even if they went elsewhere and came back. His practices were unreal. I watched them practice a few times and it was way more intense than the Eddie Fogler days at VU. I never saw the amount of hustle they had. If Kermit did it once, you could argue that he got lucky. When he did it 10 times, it ain't luck. It's a system. Dendy, Williams, Jones, Upshaw, King, Potts, Williams, etc.
I hope you guys are right. I hope CNM can prove me wrong. He's got big shoes to fill and as Wiley says, if he doesn't do good in recruiting right now, it's gonna get rough and it will take a while to build it back up.
I hope you guys are right. I hope CNM can prove me wrong. He's got big shoes to fill and as Wiley says, if he doesn't do good in recruiting right now, it's gonna get rough and it will take a while to build it back up.
JT,
Thank you for openness and clarifying. Makes a lot more sense to me now. A good amount of what you are saying is something I'm onboard with. That is, your frustrations seem more centered on Massaro and the job he is doing with the athletic dept overall. To me, it's somewhat of a different subject than the potential of CNM, but I get the general lack of confidence in Massaro. The next logical step for you then is to wonder if his coaching selection is any good.
I have been slowly but surely getting down on Massaro the last couple of years. The football situation is exhibit one for me. The second is baseball. I'm uncertain of Massaro's role in this, but I've been surprised by the lack of success and lack of buzz with the women's basketball program. That doesn't really even touch upon fundraising and facilities.
Even with being down on Massaro in recent years, I thought he handled the hire of CNM pretty well. Maybe Massaro being in the spotlight pushed him to more openly communicate about MT athletics, but I liked to hear some of his thinking. I don't know if credit goes to the new governing board or Massaro, but it is nice to finally see some goals and vision regarding facilities. Although, a ton more of work to build public support needs to be done.
Regarding Massaro and CNM, I'm glad Massaro went with a professional consultant hiring firm. Some ADs and situations would be fine without using a firm. For Massaro and this situation, I think it may have helped. Without a clearcut waiting in the wings MT bball coach ready to be hired, I think it was the smart thing to do in going through a wide and open search to see who rose to the surface. I'm reasonably impressed with what I see with CNM. Obviously, the next few years will give us a better read on the direction of the program under CNM.
Thank you for openness and clarifying. Makes a lot more sense to me now. A good amount of what you are saying is something I'm onboard with. That is, your frustrations seem more centered on Massaro and the job he is doing with the athletic dept overall. To me, it's somewhat of a different subject than the potential of CNM, but I get the general lack of confidence in Massaro. The next logical step for you then is to wonder if his coaching selection is any good.
I have been slowly but surely getting down on Massaro the last couple of years. The football situation is exhibit one for me. The second is baseball. I'm uncertain of Massaro's role in this, but I've been surprised by the lack of success and lack of buzz with the women's basketball program. That doesn't really even touch upon fundraising and facilities.
Even with being down on Massaro in recent years, I thought he handled the hire of CNM pretty well. Maybe Massaro being in the spotlight pushed him to more openly communicate about MT athletics, but I liked to hear some of his thinking. I don't know if credit goes to the new governing board or Massaro, but it is nice to finally see some goals and vision regarding facilities. Although, a ton more of work to build public support needs to be done.
Regarding Massaro and CNM, I'm glad Massaro went with a professional consultant hiring firm. Some ADs and situations would be fine without using a firm. For Massaro and this situation, I think it may have helped. Without a clearcut waiting in the wings MT bball coach ready to be hired, I think it was the smart thing to do in going through a wide and open search to see who rose to the surface. I'm reasonably impressed with what I see with CNM. Obviously, the next few years will give us a better read on the direction of the program under CNM.
Kermit consistently hitting home runs with 4th yr transfers is clearly not luck. Kermit and his staff were obviously good at spotting underutilized highly talented players who were willing to put in the work to be successful in their final year. The point mentioned a few post back though still appears to be pretty valid in that especially the last couple of years Kermit was having to rebuild each year. That sort of situation does create circumstances like this year when the bill comes due for not developing the core of the team with high school recruits.
For CNM, I am not expecting him to have some earth shattering class of recruits this year. I'm expecting something along the lines of the best one can do for the circumstances. It won't be until next year that I will start to expect CNM recruiting prowess to start to reap some good benefits. Certainly, there is a chance CNM could impress this spring with a couple of good signees. I hope he does, but I wouldn't consider him failing for signing a few ok or decent players in such a short timeframe.
For CNM, I am not expecting him to have some earth shattering class of recruits this year. I'm expecting something along the lines of the best one can do for the circumstances. It won't be until next year that I will start to expect CNM recruiting prowess to start to reap some good benefits. Certainly, there is a chance CNM could impress this spring with a couple of good signees. I hope he does, but I wouldn't consider him failing for signing a few ok or decent players in such a short timeframe.
Reports have Buffen committing to Ole Miss.
After all the talk of hoping for the best for MT, always following the Raiders, help in any way I can, staying a member of the BRAA ,etc.:
KERMIT DAVIS CAN OFFICIALLY KISS MY ASS
After all the talk of hoping for the best for MT, always following the Raiders, help in any way I can, staying a member of the BRAA ,etc.:
KERMIT DAVIS CAN OFFICIALLY KISS MY ASS
Surprised, given the doubts about buffen's academics being ready for college. Not exactly hitting the ground running...
family seems happy...
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meanwhile, Fagan took a visit to Auburn most recently.(Sunday), according to a blog, his top schools are uga, ole miss, and xavier.
I've really moved on from these guys. They're not part of the Raider family; never have been, and never will be, so I can care less about them. I more worried about the current players. Coaching changes usually cause a defection or two (or three).
The general feeling is the current players are really excited about the new staff. Its a much better atmosphere.
