I can recall Bob Martin from the late seventies, sure there was another, but can not recall, maybe Slim Smith???
BASKETBALL Fagan, Buffen ask for release; Carlos Curry still undecided
- Thread starter MTLynn
- Start date
I can recall Bob Martin from the late seventies, sure there was another, but can not recall, maybe Slim Smith???
Apparently he was in a car accident early into Motlow's season and only played a handful of games...
I only want a grad transfer if we feel confident he can start or play serious minutes. I would rather sign kids that can contribute 4 years.
I am hopeful that the new staff will do a better job of stabilizing the roster so its not patched together every year or so.
I am hopeful that the new staff will do a better job of stabilizing the roster so its not patched together every year or so.
This only works if the 4 year player can play. You can actually do more damage stretching for a player who is going to sit the bench for 4 years than a grad transfer.
I believe Bob Martin actually played at Martin College, not Motlow. Could be wrong, though.
All Kermit had to do was stay away from three players to be held in good standing with MT forever.
It will help and be good to see what CNM can do to help sure up the roster for his first year. With the changeover, I'm not exactly expecting out of this world results in such a short time. Hopefully he can find some guys, particularly frontcourt guys, who can help the team at least remain competitive in the conference race.
I like what I hear from CNM regarding the recruitment of guards. In addition to versatility, he likes to get big and long guards. Sounds great. Fortunately, MT does have some guards returning that are cause for confidence.
I hope CNM goes for forwards and centers that are also big and tall. I have long thought that the lack of consistent legit center types has hurt MT when it comes to playing Top 25 teams especially vs Sweet Sixteen and Final Four type teams. Walters was kind of an example of that in each game this past season. He wasn't always real consistent, but when he played well MT performed at a whole other level. Plus there was a drop off when he was on the bench resting. In conference and vs most teams outside the Top 25, you can get away with two 6-8 PFs in the frontcourt. Not so much vs elite competition which is where most of us want MT competing.
I like what I hear from CNM regarding the recruitment of guards. In addition to versatility, he likes to get big and long guards. Sounds great. Fortunately, MT does have some guards returning that are cause for confidence.
I hope CNM goes for forwards and centers that are also big and tall. I have long thought that the lack of consistent legit center types has hurt MT when it comes to playing Top 25 teams especially vs Sweet Sixteen and Final Four type teams. Walters was kind of an example of that in each game this past season. He wasn't always real consistent, but when he played well MT performed at a whole other level. Plus there was a drop off when he was on the bench resting. In conference and vs most teams outside the Top 25, you can get away with two 6-8 PFs in the frontcourt. Not so much vs elite competition which is where most of us want MT competing.
One more thought on CNM and recruiting:
Heard him on radio talk about how impressed he was with the physical strength, muscle mass type size with Johnson and Simmons. It was context of how he liked guards being taller generally speaking. It sounded like he was impressed with their overall size for guards who may be in the 6-2 to 6-3 range when he likes 6-4 to 6-6 guards if he can help it. I do hope he understands with returning players and recruiting that the physical strength muscle mass type thing is really important at this level of play. Having players with that sort of strength and toughness helps grind out those long tiresome road trip games. In the Big South type conference, you can get away without type of strength, but C-USA is bit tougher. Hopefully he is well aware of those sort of dynamics with his years of experience in coaching.
Heard him on radio talk about how impressed he was with the physical strength, muscle mass type size with Johnson and Simmons. It was context of how he liked guards being taller generally speaking. It sounded like he was impressed with their overall size for guards who may be in the 6-2 to 6-3 range when he likes 6-4 to 6-6 guards if he can help it. I do hope he understands with returning players and recruiting that the physical strength muscle mass type thing is really important at this level of play. Having players with that sort of strength and toughness helps grind out those long tiresome road trip games. In the Big South type conference, you can get away without type of strength, but C-USA is bit tougher. Hopefully he is well aware of those sort of dynamics with his years of experience in coaching.
LOL. Kermit trying to sign all 3 huh? I'm sure he would if Curry was going to qualify.
What a class act. Recruits them, using Middle Tennessee's recruiting budget, to come play at MT for 2-3 years.....then leaves for Ole Miss....then as soon as they get their release he's all over them.
So MT's forked out thousands upon thousands in the recruiting of Buffen & Curry to Ole Miss.
Kermit Davis, a class act for sure, right? This situation has taught me everything I need to know about this loser. Zero loyalty, zero regard for the future of MT, and zero class. We should have canned his snake @$$ the moment he announced he was leaving. Another failure by Massaro.
I'm still baffled Massaro would release without restrictions. We are going to see Buffen and Fagan styling on MT for the next couple of years now. Great job, Massaro. First you let him stick around to keep recruiting these kids to Ole Miss, then you release the kids without restrictions.
You should have just signed their LOI's to Ole Miss for them while you were at it, idiot.
What a class act. Recruits them, using Middle Tennessee's recruiting budget, to come play at MT for 2-3 years.....then leaves for Ole Miss....then as soon as they get their release he's all over them.
So MT's forked out thousands upon thousands in the recruiting of Buffen & Curry to Ole Miss.
Kermit Davis, a class act for sure, right? This situation has taught me everything I need to know about this loser. Zero loyalty, zero regard for the future of MT, and zero class. We should have canned his snake @$$ the moment he announced he was leaving. Another failure by Massaro.
I'm still baffled Massaro would release without restrictions. We are going to see Buffen and Fagan styling on MT for the next couple of years now. Great job, Massaro. First you let him stick around to keep recruiting these kids to Ole Miss, then you release the kids without restrictions.
You should have just signed their LOI's to Ole Miss for them while you were at it, idiot.
I said it in another thread & I will say it here. I rarely give credit to our leadership, but in this case, it was a character move by Massaro.
When men get emotional, we can get petty and stupid. Grown men saying we should limit the options of a 17 year old to do what he thinks is best for his life based on our emotional stake to a school is sad. I disagree with a lot of moves CM makes, but this was the integrity move.
I understand where you are coming from RaiderDawg78 but when you're talking about "our emotional stake" you're talking about me. Yes, after decades of following MT BkB and going through 20 +/- years of purgatory Davis had finally gotten the program to the point of having a good class of entirely freshmen. The success of the last few years was finally paying off on the recruiting trail.
The school hyped these recruits when they were signed, I followed these players' senior years as much as any "Cats Paws" reading UK fan follows their recruits believing that these three players would in all probably form the nucleus of the team for several years, and was anxiously waiting on their arrival in The Boro.
IMHO giving the young men a release was necessary and proper if they requested, giving them the ability to play against MT next year was not. I'm more upset at Massaro than I've ever been at any person on the MT staff since Bruce Stewart made the "crawl to Knoxville" statement. I'm waiting to see how this plays out along with giving myself time to cool off before making any decision I'll regret but as of now my continued support for the athletic program is in jeopardy. As a fan I feel slapped down, s--t on, disrespected, and royally screwed by this entire situation.
The school hyped these recruits when they were signed, I followed these players' senior years as much as any "Cats Paws" reading UK fan follows their recruits believing that these three players would in all probably form the nucleus of the team for several years, and was anxiously waiting on their arrival in The Boro.
IMHO giving the young men a release was necessary and proper if they requested, giving them the ability to play against MT next year was not. I'm more upset at Massaro than I've ever been at any person on the MT staff since Bruce Stewart made the "crawl to Knoxville" statement. I'm waiting to see how this plays out along with giving myself time to cool off before making any decision I'll regret but as of now my continued support for the athletic program is in jeopardy. As a fan I feel slapped down, s--t on, disrespected, and royally screwed by this entire situation.
I get it, I am as irrationally invested in MT and Mississippi State. I am sort of known at my job for the saying, "take the emotion out of it" when it comes to making decisions.
It sucks that guys MT recruited may actually play against and beat us. But Massaro is right, it was the integrity move. We could be Ole Miss, getting sued for not releasing kids they lied to about NCAA violations. They look like trash.
If freaking sucks the CKD is recruiting these guys. I am going to enjoy watching him get skull drug around the SEC with the bottom feeder team he was left.
This is a perfect example of why I don't pay much attention into recruiting. And I guess I am used to it from Dan Mullen leaving MSU to UF and stealing recruits as well as just the nasty SEC recruiting. So I choose not to let the decisions of kids who I don't know, who have never played for my school influence my emotions.
I don’t think anything is normal in recruiting. Slimy business.
For comedic relief on the backs of ole piss
Skip to the 40s mark.
For comedic relief on the backs of ole piss
Skip to the 40s mark.
Last edited:
It completely depends on the school, coach, sport, and situation. Full releases occurs most often in situations like this or for family medical hardship situations. Schools tend to be much more restrictive on current players, but again, it really depends on the school/coach.
So the thousands upon thousands upon thousands MT spent so Kermit can sign these players at Ole Miss is just no big deal?
So we are subsidizing Ole Miss' recruiting budget?
Didn't realize we were that rich and generous. Guess they don't need my money then.
So we are subsidizing Ole Miss' recruiting budget?
Didn't realize we were that rich and generous. Guess they don't need my money then.
Ole miss paid us for that. We put the value on CKD and everything he brings to the table, including recruiting, at $700000.
I bet $700000 covered the search firms fees, the recruiting budget and then some.
Yes it sucks, just like when Dan Mullen flipped a bunch of Mississippi State recruits to Florida when he left. It happens. That’s what the buy out is for.
That's absolutely not what the buy out is for. The buy out is there to, hopefully, make other schools piss off from trying to steal our coach. 700k wasn't near enough.
It's also there because typically you're going to be paying a buy out to the next coach you hire. Luckily for us, Asheville is about as flush as Blackman High School.
The buyout is not there to cover recruiting fee's over the last 2-3 years for kids who were going to play here and then decided they didn't want to.
You can try to cover for Massaro and take the moral high ground all you want on this, but it was outrageous that we didn't at least restrict the signee's from going to Ole Piss all things considered. I'm absolutely convinced Kermit and his staff have been in the ear of the recruits and/or their families ever since he made his decision to go to Ole Piss. Shady, shady $hit and Massaro not putting up any resistance.
As another poster said, he'll probably be the associate AD there next year.
First- hyping recruits is prone to overly emotional responses. Don't get me wrong, it's natural to be excited about recruits/their potential but placing too much stock in any of them is certain to lead to premature heart conditions. These kids, and that's what incoming freshmen are, have had months/years of exposure to CKD and his staff, it's really natural to want to stay that course despite the legal nature of LOI binding the kid to the school.
Second- letting these 3 kids go unconditionally provides the visible high ground and a fantastic foundation and reputation for MTSU, CNM and his staff to recruit now and in the future, in basketball and your other sports. Don't miss the forest for 3 trees folks- you need good, positive relationships with these 3 kids' HS/AAU coaches, summer camp coordinators, AND the sphere of influence that those folks command. It is common practice to provide full and unconditional releases to incoming recruits when there is a coaching change before they arrive on campus. Doing anything else makes the program/AD/coaches look petty and that reputation will prevent them from landing the next great recruit. Do you want to handcuff your new coach who is known as a good recruiter just to prove some petty point because you feel slighted? As fans we can feel any way we want, but criticizing your AD for doing his job seems misplaced.
So pay the rent and realize that it's about far more than 3 kids that may or may not end up playing anywhere else, including for Ole Miss if it works out that way.. the way I was raised, it should make you want to beat whoever they play for and then sit back and laugh when you do..
Second- letting these 3 kids go unconditionally provides the visible high ground and a fantastic foundation and reputation for MTSU, CNM and his staff to recruit now and in the future, in basketball and your other sports. Don't miss the forest for 3 trees folks- you need good, positive relationships with these 3 kids' HS/AAU coaches, summer camp coordinators, AND the sphere of influence that those folks command. It is common practice to provide full and unconditional releases to incoming recruits when there is a coaching change before they arrive on campus. Doing anything else makes the program/AD/coaches look petty and that reputation will prevent them from landing the next great recruit. Do you want to handcuff your new coach who is known as a good recruiter just to prove some petty point because you feel slighted? As fans we can feel any way we want, but criticizing your AD for doing his job seems misplaced.
So pay the rent and realize that it's about far more than 3 kids that may or may not end up playing anywhere else, including for Ole Miss if it works out that way.. the way I was raised, it should make you want to beat whoever they play for and then sit back and laugh when you do..
Let them go. It’s the right call. I’m sure CNM had a say in the deal too. Let’s see what he can do. We do not want disgruntled HS kids here feeling like they were forced to be here to posion what’s been built. Anyone who didn’t think this was going to happen when Kermit left is lying to themselves.
I don't think anyone would have batted an eye if MT was looking out for it's own best interests when these kids were released and restricted them from CUSA schools and opponents on our future schedule, which includes Ole Piss and the almighty Kermit "The Snake" Davis. That still leaves 95% of D1 schools out there for these kids to sign with. I'd say that's a more than fair compromise and it becomes a win-win because the kids don't have to be here if they don't want to, and MT doesn't get burned in the future by said kids down the road.
These 3 kids up and bailing on us in the 11th hour is already very damaging to the future of our program. Could be history-altering if we never again achieve the success we've had the last half decade. We are making big concessions by letting them walk away, so how on earth is it unreasonable for us to restrict a few places they can go? If MT never again achieves the greatness that it has the last 5 years, you better believe this will be viewed as the critical turning point where it all went south.....
MT is already putting itself in a terrible position by having to sign a bunch of second-rate players in the 11th hour hoping they pan out and contribute. These 3 kids bailing is devastating to our future. And now after our program has been crippled by their departures, we (and our fans) are going to have to sit through them styling on us for the next few years? Why couldn't we have come to a fair compromise, release them, but with restrictions on conference and future opponents? Seems extremely reasonable and fair to both parties to me....
I cannot fathom how Massaro just allowed them to walk away. Well, not walk away, he basically signed their LOI's to Ole Miss for them when he signed their release papers. He literally should have just faxed over their LOI's to Ole Miss at that point, all the while greatly bolstering a future opponents roster. That shit ain't happening on my watch if I'm the AD.
Perhaps those backing Massaro on this will "see the forest for the trees" when Ole Piss, with Fagan & Buffen, are smoking MT the next few years and MT never returns to the success it had the last 5 years. I welcome CNM to prove me wrong on this, but that's my prediction and I'm sticking to it (And I'm not usually wrong.)
Another thread to bookmark I guess
Hey, Massaro did what he thought was right. Now he'll pay for it by losing every bit of momentum he had. This new coach won't ever bring what Kermit brought here. This guy has already destroyed the program just by being here. He's a high scoring no D coach. That won't get it done in this league. Sorry, I just don't see us competing until we get some real D back.
Not hiring Grensing was stupid IMO. He recruited and taught D. He had a good work ethic and was connected to those 3 players that we had. Really stupid move by Massaro but that's what he's good at. I see a grim future ahead for Men's BB.
Not hiring Grensing was stupid IMO. He recruited and taught D. He had a good work ethic and was connected to those 3 players that we had. Really stupid move by Massaro but that's what he's good at. I see a grim future ahead for Men's BB.
I wouldn't call it grim, but we'll never achieve what we achieved these last 5 years IMO. Not after losing these 3 players and getting totally d!cked on this signing class. Tons of momentum pissed down the drain and it's so hard for schools like us to get that wave of success going and to maintain it. When you start tampering with the formula (ie. the coach leaves and an entire signing class screws you), it's EXTREMELY unlikely that you will build on the previous successes. We would have had a shot to continue the success IF we had a great signing class this year but that isn't going to happen and with our margin for error already so small as a "mid-major," we're screwed.
Next year we will win 18-19 games, and Year 2 will probably be the most brutal of them all. That's when this year's signing class, or lack of, will start to rear it's ugly head. Maybe 15 or 16 wins in Year 2. Will be a lot of pissed off folks there.
Years 3 and 4 will be the wild card and make or break years, but at that point fans will already be so down on the team and program that it won't matter unless we are dancing, which is unlikely. CUSA is vastly improved across the board minus a few bottom dwellers.
With all that being said, CNM is more than welcome to prove me wrong. Guess we'll have to see.
And with regards to your "high scoring no D coach" - I really hope you are just uninformed. Because if CNM doesn't continue Kermit's defensive ways, we have ZERO chance moving forward. Defense travels. That's why we were 12-1 on road games last year. Offense is great to have but won't win you championships....and surely to god CNM knows this. In fact I'm sure he does I believe I've heard him mention it in interviews. Talk is cheap though we will see how defensive his teams are here real soon.
Next year we will win 18-19 games, and Year 2 will probably be the most brutal of them all. That's when this year's signing class, or lack of, will start to rear it's ugly head. Maybe 15 or 16 wins in Year 2. Will be a lot of pissed off folks there.
Years 3 and 4 will be the wild card and make or break years, but at that point fans will already be so down on the team and program that it won't matter unless we are dancing, which is unlikely. CUSA is vastly improved across the board minus a few bottom dwellers.
With all that being said, CNM is more than welcome to prove me wrong. Guess we'll have to see.
And with regards to your "high scoring no D coach" - I really hope you are just uninformed. Because if CNM doesn't continue Kermit's defensive ways, we have ZERO chance moving forward. Defense travels. That's why we were 12-1 on road games last year. Offense is great to have but won't win you championships....and surely to god CNM knows this. In fact I'm sure he does I believe I've heard him mention it in interviews. Talk is cheap though we will see how defensive his teams are here real soon.
Watch CNM's games at UNCA. 101-99 type games all day long. It's like a McDonald's All American game level of defense which is non existent. He brought his staff here so that's what we're getting. Grensing would have maintained the defense more but this yahoo will just run up and down the court. Goodbye 1-3-1 to 2-3 zone. CNM doesn't even know what that means. Watch his games on YouTube. All prayers back on football now and you know how that'll go. :-(
Good night, when did this turn into butthurt U?
Folks I know how it is to get bent out of shape when things aren't going so great with the Blue Raiders, but it is getting unexpectedly resentful to bitter around here.
While I'm somewhat to mildly annoyed about the way some things played out during the changeover, it still is the nature of the business. All in all, those things are pretty minor in the grand scheme of things. I'm much more excited about the new opportunity with a new coach and the future of MT basketball.
I think Massaro did the right thing, and it's not even really much of a question to me. To me, the only quibble might be about leaving open known future opponents. That seems a really small matter though especially if it's customary in D1 to full release in this type of situation. I also agree and want the goodwill for MT out there for doing right by some kids during a fluid and changing circumstance with MT bball. I'm a firm believer that sort of thing comes back around a year or two down the road. You reap what you sow.
The recruiting class was hyped with big expectations. I get that it's disappointing to lose those recruits after such a class seemed such a long time coming. Keeping some perspective though, things could have changed even if Kermit were still here. Already there is talk of grade issues with one or more of the three with likely Prep school being mentioned for one. Kermit may have redshirted one or both. It is also quite common these days to lose freshman to transfer after their first year. Who knows, maybe they would have all played and been great for MT. Then again, possibly one or two could have ended up contributing to MT. Funny thing is CNM might still have a shot at one if the player goes the prep school route. I'm just trying to suggest tempering the disappoint with the reality that there were no guarantees in the first place.
Again, I'm hopeful and excited about CNM chances to build upon the success us folks have been enjoying these last 5 or 6 years. Food for thought, just a couple of seasons ago in one of MT's greatest seasons ever the great team coached by Kermit played our new coach CNM on a neutral floor where MT won by like 2 points in a low scoring affair. Think about that, 2 points separated a CNM coached UNC-A team and one of the best if not the best Blue Raider team in MT history coached by Kermit.
Folks I know how it is to get bent out of shape when things aren't going so great with the Blue Raiders, but it is getting unexpectedly resentful to bitter around here.
While I'm somewhat to mildly annoyed about the way some things played out during the changeover, it still is the nature of the business. All in all, those things are pretty minor in the grand scheme of things. I'm much more excited about the new opportunity with a new coach and the future of MT basketball.
I think Massaro did the right thing, and it's not even really much of a question to me. To me, the only quibble might be about leaving open known future opponents. That seems a really small matter though especially if it's customary in D1 to full release in this type of situation. I also agree and want the goodwill for MT out there for doing right by some kids during a fluid and changing circumstance with MT bball. I'm a firm believer that sort of thing comes back around a year or two down the road. You reap what you sow.
The recruiting class was hyped with big expectations. I get that it's disappointing to lose those recruits after such a class seemed such a long time coming. Keeping some perspective though, things could have changed even if Kermit were still here. Already there is talk of grade issues with one or more of the three with likely Prep school being mentioned for one. Kermit may have redshirted one or both. It is also quite common these days to lose freshman to transfer after their first year. Who knows, maybe they would have all played and been great for MT. Then again, possibly one or two could have ended up contributing to MT. Funny thing is CNM might still have a shot at one if the player goes the prep school route. I'm just trying to suggest tempering the disappoint with the reality that there were no guarantees in the first place.
Again, I'm hopeful and excited about CNM chances to build upon the success us folks have been enjoying these last 5 or 6 years. Food for thought, just a couple of seasons ago in one of MT's greatest seasons ever the great team coached by Kermit played our new coach CNM on a neutral floor where MT won by like 2 points in a low scoring affair. Think about that, 2 points separated a CNM coached UNC-A team and one of the best if not the best Blue Raider team in MT history coached by Kermit.
Something tells me in 2035 when we get a new FB coach there will not be this much excitement or butt hurt.
I have to disagree here. While I wish Grensing had been retained on staff, Hamilton was the key to recruiting and holding on to these 3 guys. Once Case and Hamilton went with Kermit, I knew our 3 recruits were as good as gone.
I think we are going to be fine. Do I wish we had restricted them to conference/opponents.......yes. Is it the end of the world? Absolutely not. It might handcuff us a bit this year, but I REALLY like what I have seen so far with CNM. Excited to see what he can do.
Wow...Wiley, a couple of you others need to step back from the ledge.
You do know this happens ALL THE TIME right? This wasn't the first time that a coach left for a new job and HIS (and his staff) recruits were released right? Oh and 99 out of 100 times the recruits will be interested in where he went because they had a connection with him and his staff.
You guys really need to quit whining. This wasn't some new crazy thing that just happened for the first time ever to MTSU. They are also released fully the vast majority of the time, and it is 100% the right thing to do after a coaching change.
Honestly...take a few deep breathes, have a nice cup of coffee, listen to the birds chirping from your back porch and relax! It will be better for your health.
You do know this happens ALL THE TIME right? This wasn't the first time that a coach left for a new job and HIS (and his staff) recruits were released right? Oh and 99 out of 100 times the recruits will be interested in where he went because they had a connection with him and his staff.
You guys really need to quit whining. This wasn't some new crazy thing that just happened for the first time ever to MTSU. They are also released fully the vast majority of the time, and it is 100% the right thing to do after a coaching change.
Honestly...take a few deep breathes, have a nice cup of coffee, listen to the birds chirping from your back porch and relax! It will be better for your health.
I'm telling you Massaro is one of the problems with athletics at MT staying mediocre for years. No forward thinking mentality, same stale expectations.
Letting them go is the RIGHT thing. Not saying you can't go to Ole Miss is the wrong thing. Are we looking out for the interests of the program or 3 individual players that aren't even probably coming here now?
Again, Massaro is one of the problems that nobody seems to bring up.
Letting them go is the RIGHT thing. Not saying you can't go to Ole Miss is the wrong thing. Are we looking out for the interests of the program or 3 individual players that aren't even probably coming here now?
Again, Massaro is one of the problems that nobody seems to bring up.
