How to Define Success

[MT01]

This is something that doesn't get talked about enough. How does MT define goals? And are they specific enough? We pay our two top program coaches a shit ton of money. Nick McDevitt should have already been fired, but what exactly does the braintrust set for goals for our programs? Because 40% win pct damn sure shouldn't be it so why is McDevitt still here?

This is a bit easier right now with Mason, because he's in year one. Fan bases don't always have the same level of goals in mind as the administration, but our administration has failed so as the fan base we need to outline reasonable and realistic goals. And if the two coaches in the two major sports don't achieve this then we as the alumni and fan base need to apply consistent campaign of pressure to hold them accountable since they don't hold themselves accountable and b) the athletic director's job needs to be on the line and tied to them too. And we're just going to talk about performance and not the academic side.

Football Goals
1. Bowl game in year 2
2. Over the next three years beat Western two times
3. Over the next four years win at least one conference championship

After four years you look back and you have not achieved most of this, Mason should not get a fifth year (unless he's really close like losing in the championship game in year 4) . Buy out that last year and move on to find someone who will. It's really that simple. It's time we start expecting results from individuals who are making a million dollars on the university's dime.

Basketball Goals
This one is tougher because we already have a guy who shouldn't be here, because he would not have met any of the goals we would have set when he was hired. Not one. So, for Nick there is only one...

For 2024-25, win a regular season or conference title or be fired.

There needs an athletic alumni association separate and apart from the university that convenes to be a check and balance, publicly outlines such objectives, and exists to not just support the university but to publicly hold it to account for the interests of the alumni and donors. That's my two cents.

 

[TRUEBLUE73]

I would support such a group.

 

[RaiderDoug]

I think the football goals are reasonable. I’m not a basketball fan, so I will leave that to others.

Football should always follow the below timeline:

Year 1: show improvement, pass the eye test, and I really want to see results on the recruiting trail.

Year 2: bowl game.

Year 3: contend for title.

Year 4: Conference title (or close enough to make you think that one will be coming soon).

If those goals aren’t met by year 4, you start over. This was the problem with the Stock era - we approached a bowl game like it was the ultimate goal; not a championship.

As for the second part - the fan oversight board for lack of a better term, we don’t have enough people for that.

 

[MT01]

As for the second part - the fan oversight board for lack of a better term, we don’t have enough people for that.

Why not? Probably a group of 10 to 20 people with diverse associations from the university. How do we not have enough for that?

If we don't have that we should be Division III across the board.

 

[MT01]

And I'm not just talking about this board. I'm talking about plank holders, long time committed people, who have been stalwarts in the community.

I don't want to throw out names as examples of potential folks who would be good for this, because I don't think that's fair but you have people who have been deeply associated with the university and its athletics and could mix in others with different backgrounds who might be recent grads or otherwise alumni active in the community.

 

[MidTennMtneer]

Football goals I agree with 100%. And here is the thing too. If someone tries to hire CDM AFTER he's met those goals, sure. Offer him a bit more money. But do not tie yourself to him like we've done before. Take the buyout and go hire someone else. Do it again. No coach at the G5 level is worth anchoring your school down to.

Basketball....let's say McD wins a champ. If we do extend, no more than a few years. The minimum for any coach should be 20 wins. If you can't hit 20 wins in this conference regularly, you shouldn't be here. There is more to it all of course as it is totally different than football.

As for a fan committee, I'm open to the idea. Depends on structure and how things are presented to the admin. Just saying here are our issues doesn't do any good. There needs to be a professional way to meet with them, and discuss both as a committee and with the admin. The issue is CM only has so much control here. I've seen schools give control to the AD and the President just signs off, like an NFL owner and GM. We don't operate that way especially when you throw in the Board.

If men's tennis, softball, WBB etc can win conference champs, zero reason our bell cows shouldn't either.

 

[Sommy]

Realistically how much longer will McPhee and MESSaro be here? I have no faith anything improves with expectations until those guys are gone. They are literally just riding out their twilight years with athletics at this point instead of actually trying to build something better. Mediocrity is a huge success for them.

 

[JohnDavidBlue]

Fantastic thoughts. Companies have mission statements and supporting goals/objectives for areas of the business. Filtered down, there are OKRs (Objective Key Results) for teams and individuals and then plans of execution. Extremely high level, but goes along the same lines.

The objectives you outlined, MT01, could be along the same lines as an OKR which are MEASURABLE goals and results.

I don't think our athletic department has a mission statement. Maybe they need to look in the mirror and figure out who or what they are. Are we always making decisions off the cuff or are we continually positioning ourselves to be the best with facilities and personel. Right now, we are not looking great on either of those (yet).

I love the idea.

I don't know how one would yield such power to apply pressure unless you had financial interest. You know the golden rule:

Those who have the gold makes the rules.

 

[ewglenn]

Nick McDevitt has been here for 6 years and has yet to have a season that didn’t have double digit losses. That’s pretty bad. I think this season we should be 25+ wins or he should go. The roster is built to win this year so if he doesn’t win, next year will be horrible regardless of who it is.

 

[RaiderDoug]

Why not? Probably a group of 10 to 20 people with diverse associations from the university. How do we not have enough for that?

If we don't have that we should be Division III across the board.

1. There’s no incentive for the AD to voluntarily give any sort of leverage to this committee.

2. The only way to force it would be if we had some deep pocketed parties who were interested and were willing to invest/withhold based upon the creation of this committee.

Which, considering what we’ve seen on how involve/invested our fans and boosters have been, I don’t think we have those parties.

Our fan base is basically a couple of thousand moderately enthused middle class fans. We don’t have a Yellowwood or a Haslam.

 

[MT01]

As usual Doug you miss the point. It might be a good thing we don’t have a Haslam or Yellowood.

Look how bad things got screwed up in both Knoxville and Auburn with their over influence. This would be different.

But then again my outside the box thinking and vision has never held much court on any of our boards.

 

[MTFAN61]

Sounds like the basic fundamentals of an autonomous union, but without the union fees. And to be upfront I don't think anyone would be in opposition to such an idea. Question: How would the MTAAA (Middle Tennessee Athletic Alumni Association) hold this accountability of checks & balances towards the university & athletics dept?
Let's say the MTAAA was already in existence, & our stated goal was for CNM to win a minimum of 25 games & the CUSA championship along with going to the NCAA Tournament. However, the end of year result was a record of 18-14 with no championship & maybe an invite to the CBIT.
What then for the MTAAA? Not like we can demand or order all MT fans to not purchase season tickets, contribute to NIL, or march in protest (if CNM is given another extension) like a true union where said employees show their opposition by striking.
Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of a checks & balances association against what has been considered a poorly run university athletics department in the opinion of many caring alumni.
But where & how could an association as this truly yield effective power as to make a university stand up & listen to its grievances & from their take action that benefits everyone?

 

[DisgruntledAlum]

Realistically how much longer will McPhee and MESSaro be here? I have no faith anything improves with expectations until those guys are gone. They are literally just riding out their twilight years with athletics at this point instead of actually trying to build something better. Mediocrity is a huge success for them.

Sad, but true

 

[DisgruntledAlum]

I think we've seen during the Stock years that a conference championship was not a goal. More times than not, we were eliminated from conference contention by mid-October, and they all were preaching "all our goals are still in front of us."

 

[RaiderDoug]

As usual Doug you miss the point. It might be a good thing we don’t have a Haslam or Yellowood.

Look how bad things got screwed up in both Knoxville and Auburn with their over influence. This would be different.

But then again my outside the box thinking and vision has never held much court on any of our boards.

Again, what incentive would the AD have to listen to this fan advisory board of yours?

 

[FranklinRaider315]

Advisory Boards in MT Athletics or BRAA are useless. They have zero enforcement authority when their “advice” isn’t taken or implemented and they are usually stacked with the AD’s kool-aid drinkers. Nothing but window dressing.

Pretty much the same for the BOT which is even worse. One decision maker.

 

[sWiley]

Would be better to just unionize the fanbase/season ticket buyers.

If they don't do what we like, we don't buy their tickets or go to their games. Pretty simple terms there

 

[THEBLUERAIDER]

I think Massarro is a moron and a terrible AD, whom many of our deficiencies should be placed upon, but do you really think he is so incompetent to not place measurable goals on the coaches? I think he’s terrible, and even I can’t get behind this absurdity. “Why didn’t I think of that?”!?!?!?!?!”

 

[MT01]

I think Massarro is a moron and a terrible AD, whom many of our deficiencies should be placed upon, but do you really think he is so incompetent to not place measurable goals on the coaches? I think he’s terrible, and even I can’t get behind this absurdity. “Why didn’t I think of that?”!?!?!?!?!”

Please enlighten us then and tell us what the goals are for FB and BB.

 

[Brew_Raider]

I think Massarro is a moron and a terrible AD…..but do you really think he is so incompetent to not place measurable goals on the coaches?

He has mentioned his standards several times and they are ridiculously low.

Average .500 or better in conference over the course of 3 or so years and you can essentially stay forever.