FOOTBALL Duke at Middle Tennessee Game Thread

[Shayne_Pickering]

Amazing to think we're already a 1/3 of the way through the season. Time flies. Last year this team finished an extremely disappointing 4-8. Looking at the rest of the schedule & the fact there has been zero week to week improvement, it's hard to find 3 more wins this year. Don't think this team can even match Last year's record. Thinking 2-10 or 3-9 at best.
I know CDM said he felt rejuvenated coming into the season. Can't imagine him & the staff still feeling that way after this afternoon.

There is a lot that has to be cleaned up but the team has also showed good things recently. They just can't have such putrid performances in the small things whether that's special teams or turnovers and so on. Conference USA also hasn't looked too hot outside of Liberty and WKU so you have that going for you. Bowl game is still very much so on the table and that has been a goal for a successful season from the start.

 

[Shayne_Pickering]

Not what you want as a bright spot, for obvious reasons, but our freshman punter was fantastic today.

I asked Mason about him tonight. Will have a story up this week. Averaged 48.5 yards per punt I think it was, but if you take out the 31 yarder that pinned them deep, it was a net plus (subtracting return yards) of 50+

 

[sWiley]

Bowl game is still very much so on the table and that has been a goal for a successful season from the start.

I admire your positivity.

I'm not so sure about a bowl game though. Will be lucky to get another win

 

[MT01]

LMAO. Calling turnovers small things is not positivity. It’s ignoring reality as it’s slapping you.

 

[Shayne_Pickering]

LMAO. Calling turnovers small things is not positivity. It’s ignoring reality as it’s slapping you.

I meant the smaller games within the game that often get overlooked

Duke got 21 quick points off turnovers early in that game and completely changed the dynamic of the game. MTSU was able to do some good things but bc of the turnovers it limited how much it actually mattered

 

[Predarat]

Is that Blue Raider Brats stand still there this season, and was it there yesterday? I did not find it.

 

[MT01]

I meant the smaller games within the game that often get overlooked

Duke got 21 quick points off turnovers early in that game and completely changed the dynamic of the game. MTSU was able to do some good things but bc of the turnovers it limited how much it actually mattered

Yeah it’s called not being any good. Everything that’s happened in all four games is what very bad football teams play like. It seems you don’t see that?

 

[ewglenn]

Nick Vattiato is back in

Was Luther hurt?

 

[MTTim]

Instant Analysis: Duke

Murfreesboro, TN – It was déjà vu at Floyd Stadium for the second week in a row. The MTSU Blue Raiders had some bright

middletennessee.rivals.com

You forgot to mention 1)Vatiato was running for his life all night and 2) special teams suck.

 

[ewglenn]

Is that Blue Raider Brats stand still there this season, and was it there yesterday? I did not find it.

Yes, I posted more details on where it was in the other thread you commented on.

 

[MTTim]

I asked Mason about him tonight. Will have a story up this week. Averaged 48.5 yards per punt I think it was, but if you take out the 31 yarder that pinned them deep, it was a net plus (subtracting return yards) of 50+

If we are talking about how great our punter is., we are in worst shape than I thought.

 

[TRUEBLUE73]

Based on what i could watch and the remainder of the season I'm thinking 3 wins tops. When you can't hang on to the ball you will lose. This program continues to be a flop. Changing coaches we look to be worse. Coaching in the transfer portal time will expose all unless you can build a culture. This currently feels like the start of “Brick by brick”

 

[RaiderDoug]

Again, nothing unexpected last night. Not going to worry too much about Memphis either.

Real judgment season starts vs LaTech in 3 weeks.

 

[MT01]

Again, nothing unexpected last night. Not going to worry too much about Memphis either.

Real judgment season starts vs LaTech in 3 weeks.

Are you flipping serious? I thought the real season started last week?

Duke is not a good football team. They made us look awful. We should have lost to an FCS team that also had a new coaching staff. To suggest the real season starts after next week is beyond ludicrous.

The real season is a third over and we are not good. Right now there isn’t a single redeeming quality with this team.

At this point there’s only two things to focus on if we want to take the blinders off and be realistic: 1) They need to begin playing younger people and begin developing them to prepare for next year and 2) just try to begin showing some degree of improvement as the season progresses.

 

[RaiderDoug]

Are you flipping serious? I thought the real season started last week?

Duke is not a good football team. They made us look awful. We should have lost to an FCS team that also had a new coaching staff. To suggest the real season starts after next week is beyond ludicrous.

The real season is a third over and we are not good. Right now there isn’t a single redeeming quality with this team.

At this point there’s only two things to focus on if we want to take the blinders off and be realistic: 1) They need to begin playing younger people and begin developing them to prepare for next year and 2) just try to begin showing some degree of improvement as the season progresses.

I don’t think it’s ludicrous at all.

Ive maintained from day 1 and will until the final whistle of the last game that the appropriate way to judge this transitionary season is to take it all into account and see if we’re growing and improving. Never demanded or expected 17 years of losing to be turned around in a few months.

Losing my shit on here every week because we are losing games to (sometimes vastly ) superior opponents, which I expected from the start of the season, is silly.

It’s going to get ugly vs Memphis as well.

As far as I’m concerned, Mason is playing with house money until LaTech.

 

[ewglenn]

Are you flipping serious? I thought the real season started last week?

Duke is not a good football team. They made us look awful. We should have lost to an FCS team that also had a new coaching staff. To suggest the real season starts after next week is beyond ludicrous.

The real season is a third over and we are not good. Right now there isn’t a single redeeming quality with this team.

At this point there’s only two things to focus on if we want to take the blinders off and be realistic: 1) They need to begin playing younger people and begin developing them to prepare for next year and 2) just try to begin showing some degree of improvement as the season progresses.

Last week was a horrible display, this week was expected but a little worse. To really be able to judge this team we need to play our peers. We beat the team we were supposed to and we lost to 2 P4 teams. WKU was ugly but I need to see us against more CUSA competition before I can really make a judgement call on this season. We still have a lot of ball games left. We all expected to lose to Memphis at the beginning of the season and so I’m not going to hold that against them. I said 6-6 at the beginning of the season and I originally thought we would be 1-4 after the first five games. I went back and forth between 5-7 and 6-6 but went the optimistic route. All that being said, we do look really bad so far this season.

 

[TrueBlue147]

It doesn't matter what anyone thinks of Msson right now. He will be here for the next 5 years. We might as well hope he can improve. Hopefully he is rusty being out of coaching for a year and once he gets his players here things improve.

 

[MT01]

Duke is not that good - much less superior - and the season will bear that out. Ole Miss aside we've seen enough to be able to extrapolate what team 2024 is about.

Tech will be an 11 to 14 point favorite too. I agree with you that what we need to see is progress which is exactly what I said above. All that said my biggest concern is this coaching staff. A lot of the problems we see isn’t just talent deficiency so that’s discouraging a bit.

 

[ewglenn]

Finally Lost The Game

Welcome to the board!

 

[RaiderDoug]

Duke is not that good - much less superior - and the season will bear that out. Ole Miss aside we've seen enough to be able to extrapolate what team 2024 is about.

Tech will be an 11 to 14 point favorite too. I agree with you that what we need to see is progress which is exactly what I said above. All that said my biggest concern is this coaching staff. A lot of the problems we see isn’t just talent deficiency so that’s discouraging a bit.

Duke may not be great, but they’re 4-0, have a big time QB transfer, beat a big 10 team, and probably will scrounge a couple of more wins to go bowling. They still have the bones of a program that won 17 games and 2 bowl games in the last two years, and got their last coach hired at Texas A&M.

I don’t think we’re good, and I would liked to have seen more competitive play earlier this year, but it hasn’t happened. Every team we’ve played other than TTU will likely have winning seasons, go bowling, all but Duke might win their conference, and Ole Miss and Memphis have playoff aspirations.

All things considered, it’s not the end of the world for a rebuilding team with a new staff, new systems, and like 40+ new players to open 1-4 against a tough schedule.

 

[MTFAN61]

Actually I have no problem with the fact we have opened with a 1-3 record, & after next week will be 1-4. Many of us probably predicted that. The problem is all 3 losses have been by a whopping average of 35 points. We haven't offered up an ounce of competition to a fellow fbs team as of yet. And based on what we've seen (reverse that, what we've not seen), pretty good odds that 35 point loss average is going to be right on par next week in Memphis.
To tell the truth Memphis is going to be mad as hell after losing to Navy. Unfortunately for us they're definitely going to take it out on MT next week.
Will be reminiscent of the Ole Miss game. Infact will take same score.
Score prediction sadly:
Memphis: 52-3

 

[sWiley]

Actually I have no problem with the fact we have opened with a 1-3 record, & after next week will be 1-4. Many of us probably predicted that. The problem is all 3 losses have been by a whopping average of 35 points. We haven't offered up an ounce of competition to a fellow fbs team as of yet. And based on what we've seen (reverse that, what we've not seen), pretty good odds that 35 point loss average is going to be right on par next week in Memphis.
To tell the truth Memphis is going to be mad as hell after losing to Navy. Unfortunately for us they're definitely going to take it out on MT next week.
Will be reminiscent of the Ole Miss game. Infact will take same score.
Score prediction sadly:
Memphis: 52-3

Right. Has nothing to do with the record. It's the product on the field. Seems some people are not actually watching the games. This is the worst team we've fielded in 20+ years. We have a major talent program and our coordinators are not good

 

[mtfblue]

it amazes me, that everyone thinks how this season is playing out, isn't what was projected by most people. you have 65 new players and really brought no talent back. This is where they are, the program was a dumpster when they took over, and even with portal it's going to take them a few classes to get right. They should get to 6 wins which would be good. It could be worse, FIU lost to Monmouth tonight. WKU is a better team without Finley at QB, they beat Toledo.

 

[sWiley]

They should get to 6 wins which would be good.

I am willing to bet any amount of money this doesn't happen

 

[boromaderaider]

 

[MTFAN61]

Did a little research on the Duke team, & looked for some parallels to MT. Even though Duke is considered a Power school team 76 of their 80 roster players are only 3 star rated players or below. They do have 4 four star rated players on their roster. Their recruits are rated the #16 group in the ACC, & the #70 fbs grouping of athletes in the country. Yes, better than MT, but not by huge standards. A number of their prior athletes are gone from last year's team either via graduation or portal transfer from new coaching changes.
After watching yesterday's game took into consideration that both teams do share brand new coaching staffs.
As mentioned above Duke is not that great, but they looked it yesterday. Why? Simply put they were a fundamentally sound team. If a first year coach should teach one thing it's the fundamentals of blocking, tackling, & holding on to the ball.
Manny Diaz above all else has taught his not that great 4-0 team one thing, to be fundamentally sound. If I were to ask CDM one thing it would be why can another new coach & his staff teach basic fundamentals in one season to his team, & yet it is something that has been totally overlooked by him & his staff within the same time frame??

 

[ewglenn]

Duke may not be great, but they’re 4-0, have a big time QB transfer, beat a big 10 team, and probably will scrounge a couple of more wins to go bowling. They still have the bones of a program that won 17 games and 2 bowl games in the last two years, and got their last coach hired at Texas A&M.

I don’t think we’re good, and I would liked to have seen more competitive play earlier this year, but it hasn’t happened. Every team we’ve played other than TTU will likely have winning seasons, go bowling, all but Duke might win their conference, and Ole Miss and Memphis have playoff aspirations.

All things considered, it’s not the end of the world for a rebuilding team with a new staff, new systems, and like 40+ new players to open 1-4 against a tough schedule.

59 new players * lol

 

[ewglenn]

Did a little research on the Duke team, & looked for some parallels to MT. Even though Duke is considered a Power school team 76 of their 80 roster players are only 3 star rated players or below. They do have 4 four star rated players on their roster. Their recruits are rated the #16 group in the ACC, & the #70 fbs grouping of athletes in the country. Yes, better than MT, but not by huge standards. A number of their prior athletes are gone from last year's team either via graduation or portal transfer from new coaching changes.
After watching yesterday's game took into consideration that both teams do share brand new coaching staffs.
As mentioned above Duke is not that great, but they looked it yesterday. Why? Simply put they were a fundamentally sound team. If a first year coach should teach one thing it's the fundamentals of blocking, tackling, & holding on to the ball.
Manny Diaz above all else has taught his not that great 4-0 team one thing, to be fundamentally sound. If I were to ask CDM one thing it would be why can another new coach & his staff teach basic fundamentals in one season to his team, & yet it is something that has been totally overlooked by him & his staff within the same time frame??

Mario Cristobal’s first season in Miami they got beat soundly by MT. Two seasons later they are 4-0 and ranked #7. Sometimes you’ve got to be a little patient.

 

[RaiderDoug]

Did a little research on the Duke team, & looked for some parallels to MT. Even though Duke is considered a Power school team 76 of their 80 roster players are only 3 star rated players or below. They do have 4 four star rated players on their roster. Their recruits are rated the #16 group in the ACC, & the #70 fbs grouping of athletes in the country. Yes, better than MT, but not by huge standards. A number of their prior athletes are gone from last year's team either via graduation or portal transfer from new coaching changes.
After watching yesterday's game took into consideration that both teams do share brand new coaching staffs.
As mentioned above Duke is not that great, but they looked it yesterday. Why? Simply put they were a fundamentally sound team. If a first year coach should teach one thing it's the fundamentals of blocking, tackling, & holding on to the ball.
Manny Diaz above all else has taught his not that great 4-0 team one thing, to be fundamentally sound. If I were to ask CDM one thing it would be why can another new coach & his staff teach basic fundamentals in one season to his team, & yet it is something that has been totally overlooked by him & his staff within the same time frame??

Diaz and his staff are better than Mason and his staff and they have better players and more of them.

There is nothing we can offer a player or coach that is better than what Duke can offer - budget, conference, facilities, recent history and success, media, NIL, - so they have attracted better, well; everything. They’re simply able to draw from a higher pool of talent than a low budget team with no history if success in the worst conference in FBS.

It’s going to take time to gut and rebuild here.

 

[Shayne_Pickering]

Was Luther hurt?

Roman is QB2

 

[MT01]

Some of y’all are missing the point and make it sound like some of us others think we should be 3-1 or some nonsense like that. All I’ve been looking for is something to indicate that there’s some positive to latch onto. So far there has been absolutely not one thing of substance I can point to that gives me that perspective.

We got tons of that with the off the field stuff. But not a single damn thing on the field. As someone mentioned above there isn’t even anything about this team that’s fundamentally sound. I’m ok if we line up and just get beat because the man in front of our guy is better. But we are out of position a lot, there’s a lot of discipline breakdowns whether it’s tackling, dropping passes, or committing turnovers and penalties; and the scheme on both sides has been abysmal even when they don’t do those things.

So, what we all want to see is the team win games but I’m not even looking for a win at this point even as we move into the softer part of the schedule. I just want to see some improvement at this point. All of these issues I’m seeing aren’t because of the competition which is what has me so disappointed right now on the eye test, so hopefully I’ve made that more clear. And it obviously doesn’t help I was already extremely apprehensive about this style and philosophy for G6 schools in the first place. Alright that’s enough I guess. That’s where I am. Just want to see some improvements even though I know we’re going to have another 28+ point beat down next week.

 

[boromaderaider]

Some of y’all are missing the point and make it sound like some of us others think we should be 3-1 or some nonsense like that. All I’ve been looking for is something to indicate that there’s some positive to latch onto. So far there has been absolutely not one thing of substance I can point to that gives me that perspective.

We got tons of that with the off the field stuff. But not a single damn thing on the field. As someone mentioned above there isn’t even anything about this team that’s fundamentally sound. I’m ok if we line up and just get beat because the man in front of our guy is better. But we are out of position a lot, there’s a lot of discipline breakdowns whether it’s tackling, dropping passes, or committing turnovers and penalties; and the scheme on both sides has been abysmal even when they don’t do those things.

So, what we all want to see is the team win games but I’m not even looking for a win at this point even as we move into the softer part of the schedule. I just want to see some improvement at this point. All of these issues I’m seeing aren’t because of the competition which is what has me so disappointed right now on the eye test, so hopefully I’ve made that more clear. And it obviously doesn’t help I was already extremely apprehensive about this style and philosophy for G6 schools in the first place. Alright that’s enough I guess. That’s where I am. Just want to see some improvements even though I know we’re going to have another 28+ point beat down next week.

This. The off the field talk is nice, but we have to have results or else all of that "talk" loses credibility. Right now, we do not look physical, tough, or intelligent.

 

[MTFAN61]

Was about this time a year ago realized the season wasn't going very well, & moved on to preparing for Lady Raiders Basketball. Well it's Deja vu all over again, & no need to get frazzled over the football program doing its same old same old.
So turning the page, the ladies are going to have a phenomenal team again. Good luck to the football team because that's all any of us can really do. But now turning attention to the ladies & another 30 win season starting next month. Feel better already. Hahaha

 

[sWiley]

Some of y’all are missing the point and make it sound like some of us others think we should be 3-1 or some nonsense like that. All I’ve been looking for is something to indicate that there’s some positive to latch onto. So far there has been absolutely not one thing of substance I can point to that gives me that perspective.

We got tons of that with the off the field stuff. But not a single damn thing on the field. As someone mentioned above there isn’t even anything about this team that’s fundamentally sound. I’m ok if we line up and just get beat because the man in front of our guy is better. But we are out of position a lot, there’s a lot of discipline breakdowns whether it’s tackling, dropping passes, or committing turnovers and penalties; and the scheme on both sides has been abysmal even when they don’t do those things.

So, what we all want to see is the team win games but I’m not even looking for a win at this point even as we move into the softer part of the schedule. I just want to see some improvement at this point. All of these issues I’m seeing aren’t because of the competition which is what has me so disappointed right now on the eye test, so hopefully I’ve made that more clear. And it obviously doesn’t help I was already extremely apprehensive about this style and philosophy for G6 schools in the first place. Alright that’s enough I guess. That’s where I am. Just want to see some improvements even though I know we’re going to have another 28+ point beat down next week.

Great post and I agree with it all. People keep saying we are losing because the other team is better and has more of everything. Thanks, captain obvious.

This has nothing to do with losing. It's H-O-W we are losing. The opposing team didn't punt for two games. We are uncompetitive against teams we should be competitive with. Our coordinators do not look up to snuff. Our team and players can't even play fundamental football that most high school's don't have problems with.

It is a complete and total dumpster fire new staff or not. There is never an excuse to look how we have looked. We are playing like the worst team in FBS right now. When you add on the fact that Mason wants to come in here and play bully ball it makes many of us get very worried about the future.

MT01 was dead on when McDevitt was hired and look what has transpired over the last five years. I guess we are gonna have to do this all over again.

 

[MT01]

To be fair to DM I think he has a better chance of not repeating the failed CNM experiment, and I think the strategy already shifted on the offensive side. Whether that’s the right decision or not I don’t know. Looks like DM may be willing to sacrifice philosophy and culture to win games this year but if they can’t even do the basic fundamentals it doesn’t matter what style we play.

It’s too bad Bodie doesn’t have slot bubble screens in his playbook because those would have worked all day the way Duke secondary was playing back.

 

[RaiderDoug]

The season isn’t even halfway over and there’s still plenty of time to show all of the things we’re all looking for. Or not.

In a few weeks we can look back with a more accurate assessment as to where we are truly and where we are going.

 

[Raiderclyde]

Years ago, think it was Bill Parcells who often gets credit for saying "You are what your record says you are". To me, our 1-3 record with mistakes we are making speaks volumes. I don't see us overcoming very much this year unless MT dramatically reduces turnovers and plays sound football on both sides of the ball. We need a few special teams breaks along the way to create momentum. Right now, I wouldn't set an expected win floor or ceiling for 2024. Goals should be focused on basic play execution, enstilling poise whenever adversity is faced, and coaches teaching players make smarter decisions week by week. "Coach speak" is not really credible a barometer at this point as to how far the team is progressing. According to CBS Sports, we're ranked 125 out of 134 FBS teams this week. Proof is in losses to Ole Miss by 49, WKU by 28, and Duke 28--that's 105 points differential in only three games. Almost lost to Tennessee Tech at end of the game had it not been for Omari Kelly's 4th and 5 catch with :31 left and Frank Peasant's subsequent touchdown run...think about it an eyelash away from sitting 0-4. If we can think about winning each quarter and staying disciplined, we'll start to see improvements towards being a competitive team that is more pleasant to watch. Right now, that performance isn't visible and jury is out on Coach DM and Company on whether year one will be a success.

 

[AustinLewis]

For me, it's not the 1-3 that is concerning.

It's how they got there. Turnovers, injuries, mistakes, lack of explosiveness, play-calling have all concerned me at various points this season. Those struggles aren't a recipe for success for any rebuild.

It's hard not to think of something my coaching football professor said (old school football coach) : Success requires the right schedule, scheme, players, and coaches.

And right now, they didn't have the right schedule & players to run the scheme.

But the roster wasn't in the greatest shape when Mason arrived so it's gonna take some time to rebuild it. And MT is behind. Behind on facilities (Build Blue / SAPC will help) & behind on NIL/coop support. Trying to play catch up from 15 years of athletic mismanagement from people in Cope in 5 years is hard.

It's hard to beat Liberty / WKU when you're behind in ALMOST every possible way.

 

[MT01]

The season isn’t even halfway over and there’s still plenty of time to show all of the things we’re all looking for. Or not.

In a few weeks we can look back with a more accurate assessment as to where we are truly and where we are going.

I have a pretty good hunch of what that moment is going to look like. A team's identity is usually set at this point. Which is why I'm just looking for improvement over wins right now.

Any chance this start hurts recruiting? Especially with the guys who already committed.

 

[MT01]

For me, it's not the 1-3 that is concerning.

It's how they got there. Turnovers, injuries, mistakes, lack of explosiveness, play-calling have all concerned me at various points this season. Those struggles aren't a recipe for success for any rebuild.

It's hard not to think of something my coaching football professor said (old school football coach) : Success requires the right schedule, scheme, players, and coaches.

And right now, they didn't have the right schedule & players to run the scheme.

But the roster wasn't in the greatest shape when Mason arrived so it's gonna take some time to rebuild it. And MT is behind. Behind on facilities (Build Blue / SAPC will help) & behind on NIL/coop support. Trying to play catch up from 15 years of athletic mismanagement from people in Cope in 5 years is hard.

It's hard to beat Liberty / WKU when you're behind in ALMOST every possible way.

You stated it better than I've been trying to say it.