FOOTBALL Duke at Middle Tennessee Game Thread

[AustinLewis]

For me, it's not the 1-3 that is concerning.

It's how they got there. Turnovers, injuries, mistakes, lack of explosiveness, play-calling have all concerned me at various points this season. Those struggles aren't a recipe for success for any rebuild.

It's hard not to think of something my coaching football professor said (old school football coach) : Success requires the right schedule, scheme, players, and coaches.

And right now, they didn't have the right schedule & players to run the scheme.

But the roster wasn't in the greatest shape when Mason arrived so it's gonna take some time to rebuild it. And MT is behind. Behind on facilities (Build Blue / SAPC will help) & behind on NIL/coop support. Trying to play catch up from 15 years of athletic mismanagement from people in Cope in 5 years is hard.

It's hard to beat Liberty / WKU when you're behind in ALMOST every possible way.

Adding to this train of thought :

As much as many MT fans hoped that 2024 would be 6-6 or 7-5, 2024 with CDM is about building for 2025/2026. Schedule is more favorable. CDM gets his recruits, gets most of them redshirted, starts developing them & builds for the future. Same for 2025 class which @Shayne_Pickering is really high on.

2024 also gives CDM a chance to see what he really has under the hood & then hits the portal for some transfers.

 

[RaiderDoug]

I have a pretty good hunch of what that moment is going to look like. A team's identity is usually set at this point. Which is why I'm just looking for improvement over wins right now.

Any chance this start hurts recruiting? Especially with the guys who already committed.

For me, it's tough to say.

Frankly, we don't belong on the same field as Ole Miss, Duke, or Memphis right now. Regardless of how the program got to where it is in September 2024 - I just don't believe that we are equipped to do anything but collect our checks when it comes to those games. Those teams will crush a lot of better teams that aren't in complete and total rebuild mode like we are. Those games are complete and total write offs for me.

I was disappointed somewhat in WKU game. On the other hand, we haven't beaten them since 2018, and haven't kept the last 4 games within one score - so it's not like we're any worse than we have been the last few years. And to be honest, the offense at least kept throwing punches. Baby steps.

The schedule is what it is - front loaded with 2 P5 teams both of which have been very successful recently, and a G5 team that is pretty much the best G5 program in the country, and then one of the conferences premier programs in WKU.

This was never going to start well. Nick Saban would open 1-4 with this team and schedule. Every team except TTU was a good football team, some of them are very very good (OM is elite).

The good news is that the remaining schedule after Memphis is 8-18, without Liberty, it's 4-18.

LT is 1-2. NM, FIU, JSU, are all 1-3 just like us. FIU and KSU are 0-3 and 0-4. They're all bad teams. We should expect and demand much better performances vs them.

As for recruiting - bad teams can sell playing time. I do think we need to show some momentum towards the end of the season to sell in the portal and on the trail.

 

[RaiderDoug]

I'd also like the pushback on the narrative that turnaround can be quick if the right coach is hired. This is simply nonsense.

Some guys step into perfect situations like when taking over for a legend who has the program rolling - like the new guy at Bama, Ryan Day or Urban Meyer, Lincoln Riley at OU. This was not a perfect situation.

Nick Saban's first years at LSU, Bama, and MSU, his win % is .580. His career win % is .80.
Kirby Smart went 8-5 his first year, Mark Richt was 10-3 and got fired. Smart was actually worse his first year than his predecessor.
Heupel went 7-6 his first year at Tennessee.
Luke Fickell - his first two years coaching at Cincy and Wisconsin he went 8-14.
Matt Rhule won 3 games combined his first year at Temple and Baylor. He won 21 games combined by his 3rd year.

There are 17 new coaches in the G5. Only 5 of them have winning records right now. The 3 new coaches in CUSA are 2-10. Everyone's favorite runner up was Scotty Walden - he is 0-4 with an FCS loss at UTEP.

I know we all live in instant gratification, hot take, tiktok attention span world - but the fact is rebuilding a program takes time. There's no way around it.

 

[MT01]

5 of them have winning records right now.

It's never us in this category. Regardless of whether its new coach or whatever it is. I seethe over our "leadership."

 

[BRaiderDave]

It's never us in this category. Regardless of whether its new coach or whatever it is. I seethe over our "leadership."

Nothing will improve dramatically until M/M are in the rear view mirror. And throw Daddy Steve in there as well. He could make M/M go with the stroke of a pen.

 

[BigBlueBrad]

I have a pretty good hunch of what that moment is going to look like. A team's identity is usually set at this point. Which is why I'm just looking for improvement over wins right now.

Any chance this start hurts recruiting? Especially with the guys who already committed.

I don’t think so. If they come here, they’ll probably start on day one.

 

[Hop45]

Regardless of record, I just wanted to be able to say, "This team is better than last year". As of now, I can't.

 

[Shayne_Pickering]

Regardless of record, I just wanted to be able to say, "This team is better than last year". As of now, I can't.

Why would it be better than last year? They had to bring in 59+ players this offseason just to field a team. The team last year was a good team. A very good team for the G5 level. The problem was that the very good team couldn't win any games. Year one was always going to be tough especially in the first half. This team has the chance to get a lot better as conference play hits and then you can build off a core and add to the roster for the first time this offseason

 

[Hop45]

Offensive line, for one thing. A lot of bigger bodies were brought in with the hope of protecting NV more. Haven't seen it yet.

 

[Shayne_Pickering]

Offensive line, for one thing. A lot of bigger bodies were brought in with the hope of protecting NV more. Haven't seen it yet.

Lost 2 OL to P4. Lost your starting center. Lost your other starting tackle.

Added a G5 transfer that had played one game in three years, added an FCS transfer that was coming off season ending injuries. Brought in a freshman with a bright future.

Then you lose your veterans Julius Pierce and J’Shun Bodiford right away. The OL was always going to be one of the question marks on the team and then it became an even bigger one. This is where you would attack in the portal. Need to have a good haul there but could have a strong interior next year potentially.

 

[Brew_Raider]

I’m more disappointed in the philosophy on defense and lack of fundamentals across the board when tackling.


I cannot stress how much I disagree with loose coverage in our secondary. I get injuries limit scheme and how exotic we can get on D. However, I firmly believe we need to be in press quarters on the outside. I have heard too many great coaches say you play loose when you have talent and play more press when you lack talent. This is Saban, Narduzzi, and Smart, down to Jeremy Pruitt.

We are dead last in the country in pass yards allowed. You just have to do something different. Go to press quarters, add more pressures, something different. We are currently giving up 75% completion and then relying on tackling in space.

I am surprised with lack of adjustments given the experience of our coaching staff on D. Really disappointing.

 

[MTFAN61]

Despite the recruiting restrictions Vanderbilt had compared to fellow SEC teams CDM always seemed to have a very competitive D. Because of his defensive philosophy it's what I thought would be the strongest part of the team.

 

[Shayne_Pickering]

I’m more disappointed in the philosophy on defense and lack of fundamentals across the board when tackling.


I cannot stress how much I disagree with loose coverage in our secondary. I get injuries limit scheme and how exotic we can get on D. However, I firmly believe we need to be in press quarters on the outside. I have heard too many great coaches say you play loose when you have talent and play more press when you lack talent. This is Saban, Narduzzi, and Smart, down to Jeremy Pruitt.

We are dead last in the country in pass yards allowed. You just have to do something different. Go to press quarters, add more pressures, something different. We are currently giving up 75% completion and then relying on tackling in space.

I am surprised with lack of adjustments given the experience of our coaching staff on D. Really disappointing.

Every time you talk to this staff, they say they want to play an aggressive defense. And then it's also clear they don't believe they have someone to set and win on the edge or trust the new corners, so that is something to watch next season, especially if they can solidify the front. For what it's worth, I agree completely

 

[RaiderDoug]

I’m more disappointed in the philosophy on defense and lack of fundamentals across the board when tackling.


I cannot stress how much I disagree with loose coverage in our secondary. I get injuries limit scheme and how exotic we can get on D. However, I firmly believe we need to be in press quarters on the outside. I have heard too many great coaches say you play loose when you have talent and play more press when you lack talent. This is Saban, Narduzzi, and Smart, down to Jeremy Pruitt.

We are dead last in the country in pass yards allowed. You just have to do something different. Go to press quarters, add more pressures, something different. We are currently giving up 75% completion and then relying on tackling in space.

I am surprised with lack of adjustments given the experience of our coaching staff on D. Really disappointing.

I noticed that vs WKU. I'm just not sure if the culprit is the athletes or the schemes. Or both. Many of the WKU completions, WKU guys were just a step ahead of our guys.

And I hate to keep beating a dead horse here - but there's not a lot of pass defenses that will come out looking good vs Jaxon Dart/Lane Kiffen, Malik Murphy, Seth Henigan and Memphis's high flying offense, and WKU/Tyson Helton who is known for their pass offense.

 

[MT01]

I noticed that vs WKU. I'm just not sure if the culprit is the athletes or the schemes. Or both. Many of the WKU completions, WKU guys were just a step ahead of our guys.

And I hate to keep beating a dead horse here - but there's not a lot of pass defenses that will come out looking good vs Jaxon Dart/Lane Kiffen, Malik Murphy, Seth Henigan and Memphis's high flying offense, and WKU/Tyson Helton who is known for their pass offense.

Why attempt to whitewash these performances? Each of these QBs had their best day of the season against us. It’s like they were going against air. There was no resistance. That should not happen at this level no matter how new the coach is. Western wouldn’t accept this. It’s why they fired a coach after only two seasons. We have a massive culture problem at this school.

 

[MidTennMtneer]

I'm disappointed so far, sure. But I've decided I'll wait to see how the season progresses in conference play, which is what matters. One CUSA game so far doesn't paint a complete picture. It's hard to correct issues when your competition is on different levels each week.

Even Kiffin said he doesn't know how his team will do in conference because no one they've played yet has prepared them. We are on the opposite end of that spectrum as our early schedule was harder than what the meat of conference play should be. Only 4 conference games have been played so far out of 40.

I mean CUSA is BAD this year, us included. Currently sitting at 15-23 overall. Take away WKU and LU it becomes 8-22. Looking at out of conference, you have this:

Vs P4 0-8
Vs G5 6-9
Vs FCS 5-2

And there are still 4 P4, 5 G5, 1 FCS games left.

With Stock, I kept track of his record vs teams with winning records. I'm not doing that with Mason. His job is to win the conference with a few good outside wins sprinkled in. We can't control if our conference sucks.

 

[MT01]

I'm disappointed so far, sure. But I've decided I'll wait to see how the season progresses in conference play, which is what matters. One CUSA game so far doesn't paint a complete picture. It's hard to correct issues when your competition is on different levels each week.

Even Kiffin said he doesn't know how his team will do in conference because no one they've played yet has prepared them. We are on the opposite end of that spectrum as our early schedule was harder than what the meat of conference play should be. Only 4 conference games have been played so far out of 40.

I mean CUSA is BAD this year, us included. Currently sitting at 15-23 overall. Take away WKU and LU it becomes 8-22. Looking at out of conference, you have this:

Vs P4 0-8
Vs G5 6-9
Vs FCS 5-2

And there are still 4 P4, 5 G5, 1 FCS games left.

With Stock, I kept track of his record vs teams with winning records. I'm not doing that with Mason. His job is to win the conference with a few good outside wins sprinkled in. We can't control if our conference sucks.

I admit I kind of bought in to some of the off season one liners from DM and thought .500 in conference was feasible, so I was kind of expecting something around 5-7.

But after what we've seen so far what's reasonable now? At this point, I think 2-10 (plus or minus one) is more than likely at this point. This is the worst team we've had in four decades - maybe even worse than the team that actually went 2-10. Once we get to six losses, really need to focus on developing for next year.

 

[Brew_Raider]

I noticed that vs WKU. I'm just not sure if the culprit is the athletes or the schemes. Or both. Many of the WKU completions, WKU guys were just a step ahead of our guys.

And I hate to keep beating a dead horse here - but there's not a lot of pass defenses that will come out looking good vs Jaxon Dart/Lane Kiffen, Malik Murphy, Seth Henigan and Memphis's high flying offense, and WKU/Tyson Helton who is known for their pass offense.

For me, it’s the philosophy as much or more than the result. Most of the teams we have played are going to torch a lot of teams throwing the ball. We are limited by talent.

When your limited by new players, new coaches and injuries, you have to simplify schemes and rely on base packages more.

Some coaches think you should play off when you are limited. Some coaches think you have to be more aggressive and press more. We have chosen to handle the problem by being more in off coverage. I disagree with this. I said something about it against Tech and it’s carried over.. If we are going to get lit up anyway, might as well try to press and add more pressures so that maybe we force a turnover, knock a receiver off their route, disrupt time, etc.

It can’t be much worse.

 

[MT01]

Yeah, if you're going to allow 90% completion percentage you have to tackle at an elite level. We're not even tackling at a middle school level.

 

[mtfblue]

I’m more disappointed in the philosophy on defense and lack of fundamentals across the board when tackling.


I cannot stress how much I disagree with loose coverage in our secondary. I get injuries limit scheme and how exotic we can get on D. However, I firmly believe we need to be in press quarters on the outside. I have heard too many great coaches say you play loose when you have talent and play more press when you lack talent. This is Saban, Narduzzi, and Smart, down to Jeremy Pruitt.

We are dead last in the country in pass yards allowed. You just have to do something different. Go to press quarters, add more pressures, something different. We are currently giving up 75% completion and then relying on tackling in space.

I am surprised with lack of adjustments given the experience of our coaching staff on D. Really disappointing.

You still have to have talent

 

[TRUEBLUE73]

No form tackling, no blocking, and can’t hang on to the dang football. This gets you the L. Does not matter who we play. If we are unable to do the basics we will take the L.

 

[RaiderDoug]

Why attempt to whitewash these performances? Each of these QBs had their best day of the season against us. It’s like they were going against air. There was no resistance. That should not happen at this level no matter how new the coach is. Western wouldn’t accept this. It’s why they fired a coach after only two seasons. We have a massive culture problem at this school.

I'm not whitewashing them. I've never said they were good performances.

But there are mitigating factors here that we absolutely must take into account when evaluating performances.

This is a brand new staff, with 50+ new players, taking over a program that has little to no current support, little to no current facilities, little to no prior recruiting pipelines, little to no prior player development, who lost quite a bit of talent to the portal, and then suffered a couple of big injuries - against what appears to be a very difficult early season schedule for any team.

I really don't know what people were expecting from the opening 5 games. Our first 4 FBS opponents are collectively 14-2 right now. The next 6 are 8-18, and Liberty has 4 of those wins. It was always going to get worse before it got better.

Everyone in the season predictions thread had us somewhere between 5-7/7-5 right? So, unless you were out of your mind and predicted wins vs Ole Miss, Duke, and Memphis and losses vs Kennesaw and FIU and the like, then we're right on track as to what everyone predicted.


"We have a massive culture problem at this school."

Agreed. But do you think it's fair to expect that to be fixed in such a short amount of time?

 

[MT01]

I really don't know what people were expecting from the opening 5 games.

For the back-up QB at wkcc to not complete 90% of his passes for 400 yards in less than a full game.

"We have a massive culture problem at this school."

Agreed. But do you think it's fair to expect that to be fixed in such a short amount of time?

Not sure what time periods you're referring to, but it's not going to be "fixed" so long as Smith and McPhee are still here. So, I guess that's a significant portion of where my ire is drawn from. But that comment was directed at any fans too who want to make excuses for the back up QB at western making this team look like a sub .500 high school team. There's no excuse for it. I don't care if it's a new coach, 50 new players, etc. It shouldn't happen. But it does here. So that's it. Just don't make excuses for it. That's little middle mentality and I can't stand it. Our fan base is partially to blame for allowing things to get to this point.

I know we're not going to flip things with the team overnight. As I said above yes I am one who thought 5-7 might be reachable at the beginning but even that was with significant apprehension. But as has been pointed out to you several times that you're still not getting it's not the W/L so far it's how bad this team looks that has nothing to do with the opponent. I don't know how to say it any better. Austin said it too and you appear to still not get it. There is nothing about this year's team that's on track. A .500 season isn't even remotely feasible, so if you can't understand that I don't know what else to tell you.

 

[DisgruntledAlum]

Anyone else see this?

 

[RaiderDoug]

For the back-up QB at wkcc to not complete 90% of his passes for 400 yards in less than a full game.



Not sure what time periods you're referring to, but it's not going to be "fixed" so long as Smith and McPhee are still here. So, I guess that's a significant portion of where my ire is drawn from. But that comment was directed at any fans too who want to make excuses for the back up QB at western making this team look like a sub .500 high school team. There's no excuse for it. I don't care if it's a new coach, 50 new players, etc. It shouldn't happen. But it does here. So that's it. Just don't make excuses for it. That's little middle mentality and I can't stand it. Our fan base is partially to blame for allowing things to get to this point.

I know we're not going to flip things with the team overnight. As I said above yes I am one who thought 5-7 might be reachable at the beginning but even that was with significant apprehension. But as has been pointed out to you several times that you're still not getting it's not the W/L so far it's how bad this team looks that has nothing to do with the opponent. I don't know how to say it any better. Austin said it too and you appear to still not get it. There is nothing about this year's team that's on track. A .500 season isn't even remotely feasible, so if you can't understand that I don't know what else to tell you.

For the back-up QB at wkcc to not complete 90% of his passes for 400 yards in less than a full game.

Yep, that sucked. But from time to time, opposing players play well. It happens to every team at every level all the time.

No one would watch sports if the you were guaranteed a specific outcome every single time.

The average margin of WKU victory the last 3 year has been 22 points. They outscored us by 28. It's not some historic beatdown here. It's pretty much par for the course and just shows the gap between the two programs currently.


it's not the W/L so far it's how bad this team looks that has nothing to do with the opponent

You're all incorrect here. The quality of opponent does matter when evaluating the early season performances. This program is not currently competitive with the top of P5 nor with WKU. It hasn't been for years. No one should have expected anything but what we've seen.

Did anyone really expect that thought that would change in a few months, especially with all the change from top to bottom and the 2 decades of rot that had set in.

What does it matter "how" we lost?

People keep saying "because the scheme". I got news for you guys - certain units on this roster might be so bad, that there's nothing you can do scheme wise. This isn't rock-paper-scissors, where there's a counter to everything. There's no scheme that makes bad players good. There's no play-calls that can cover for completely talent or physically deficient units.

If there was, every game would end 0-0. Unless you believe they're all just stupid and we're all just football savants in the wrong industry. MoAr Blitzin!!!!!

It's very possible that this program as it is right now with the roster they have, against quality teams in college football (yes, WKU, Duke, OM, and Memphis are quality programs), will simply have to pick it's poison.



There is nothing about this year's team that's on track. A .500 season isn't even remotely feasible, so if you can't understand that I don't know what else to tell you.

I still don't understand how everyone knows that.

Again, the remainder of the schedule is super soft. There are teams that we will play that won't have such a talent, or coaching, or program infrastructure advantage right now.

Again - I can't make this crystal clear enough - i'm not saying that we have been good or that the team's performances have been anything near competitive - they clearly have not.

I'm just saying that we need to see the entire body of work this year before the pitchforks come out.

 

[MT01]

Doug, I guess we'll see. Maybe I'm just different. I used to scout and was in player development in baseball (Mets/Expos) before I shifted to MT and then on to other things thereafter.

I can evaluate talent, capability, scheme, etc., regardless of who an opponent is. And while assessing football is different than baseball, it's really hard for me to unsee what I've seen so far. Maybe it's just a matter of this team getting comfortable in a new system? Idk. It doesn't look like it to me but if they get anywhere near 6-6 then maybe that's it. But that's me looking at a near empty glass and trying to call it half full. I just don't see this as feasible no matter how soft the schedule is.

Most of the teams we have left have also played tougher teams, which is why they have poor records. But of the games I've watched of those schools most of them didn't lose like we did or look as bad as we have. Tech, Liberty, and Jax St all look like we will be heavy underdogs. FIU and NMSU look like tough games we could lose. I don't know how FIU lost to Monmouth after drilling Central Michigan. UTEP and Kennesaw look like potentially winnable games but I have low confidence. Kennesaw has a Dwight Dasher type QB that's probably going to give us all sorts of fits.

Kennesaw is the only game ESPN has us predicted to win and even that game is near toss up in the matchup predictor. And with our tradition of granting schools their first FBS win. Uhh...

 

[Brew_Raider]

You still have to have talent

I agree we lack talent.

I dislike how they are implementing our untalented players.

 

[sWiley]

I can’t wait to see what Doug has to say when we are 2-10. It’s sad he will have to see that before admitting this is the worse team we’ve fielded in 30 years, but some people just take a lot of convincing I guess.

We should have fired McPhee and Steve smith and then figured out what we were doing with McDevitt and Stockstill. Both probably need to be fired too but there’s no point paying Stockstill 5 million to walk away when McPhee and Steve smith will just make an even worse hire.

Now we certainly are stuck with Mason for the life of his contract. No way we could buy him out too.

Should have fired McPhee and Steve smith first.

 

[Brew_Raider]

Anyone else see this?

View embedded media

My group once had a lady roll up a towel and snap it at our backs for standing up during a game. She never asked us to sit. Never said anything before. We noticed it when she popped my friend in the neck.

I’ve heard annoying things from opposing fans, but the only issues I’ve ever really dealt with are the MT blue hairs or drunk MT fans.

 

[RaiderDoug]

Doug, I guess we'll see. Maybe I'm just different. I used to scout and was in player development in baseball (Mets/Expos) before I shifted to MT and then on to other things thereafter.

I can evaluate talent, capability, scheme, etc., regardless of who an opponent is. And while assessing football is different than baseball, it's really hard for me to unsee what I've seen so far. Maybe it's just a matter of this team getting comfortable in a new system? Idk. It doesn't look like it to me but if they get anywhere near 6-6 then maybe that's it. But that's me looking at a near empty glass and trying to call it half full. I just don't see this as feasible no matter how soft the schedule is.

Most of the teams we have left have also played tougher teams, which is why they have poor records. But of the games I've watched of those schools most of them didn't lose like we did or look as bad as we have. Tech, Liberty, and Jax St all look like we will be heavy underdogs. FIU and NMSU look like tough games we could lose. I don't know how FIU lost to Monmouth after drilling Central Michigan. UTEP and Kennesaw look like potentially winnable games but I have low confidence. Kennesaw has a Dwight Dasher type QB that's probably going to give us all sorts of fits.

Kennesaw is the only game ESPN has us predicted to win and even that game is near toss up in the matchup predictor. And with our tradition of granting schools their first FBS win. Uhh...

You might be right.

I expected everything I've seen so far. It's not what i've hoped for, but it is what I expected to happen.

I expect us to look a lot better and more competitive vs that late season slate. I don't know how many we'll win, but i'll be disappointed if we're still bumbling around on defense vs those teams.

 

[MidTennMtneer]

My group once had a lady roll up a towel and snap it at our backs for standing up during a game. She never asked us to sit. Never said anything before. We noticed it when she popped my friend in the neck.

I’ve heard annoying things from opposing fans, but the only issues I’ve ever really dealt with are the MT blue hairs or drunk MT fans.

I don't understand people like this. No don't stand the entire game, but any fan worth a snot should stand at good plays. And snap a towel? Come on. I've gotten dirty looks and talked about but if someone snapped me like that I'd probably lose it. I guarantee I'd be calling Lee or Hans and getting them removed.

I'm a firm believer if you go to a game and don't come home hoarse from yelling and sore hands from clapping, don't come to another game. Just stay home.

 

[RaiderDoug]

I can’t wait to see what Doug has to say when we are 2-10.

It very well could turn out that way. I will be extremely disappointed.

But, I still say in sports and all things, knee jerk reactions based on small sample sizes doesn't serve anyone well.

 

[MT01]

It very well could turn out that way. I will be extremely disappointed.

But, I still say in sports and all things, knee jerk reactions based on small sample sizes doesn't serve anyone well.

I think that’s where we’re diverging. You keep referring to this as knee jerk or otherwise thoughtless reactions. It’s not

 

[MT01]

My group once had a lady roll up a towel and snap it at our backs for standing up during a game. She never asked us to sit. Never said anything before. We noticed it when she popped my friend in the neck.

I’ve heard annoying things from opposing fans, but the only issues I’ve ever really dealt with are the MT blue hairs or drunk MT fans.

This is kind of ridiculous.

 

[MTFAN61]

Wish we could play Tech again early next year for a follow-up comparison. Remember Tech also began their season this year with a new coach & staff. Their head coaches salary is $250k annually compared to a cool $1 million annually here. Staff pay is probably only 25% compared to MT as well. And they also played with 22 less scholarship athletes. In this year's game their lines on both sides played as well if not better than MT's, they tackled as well if not better, & they played on the road. Not at home in Cookeville.
I see we are playing Austin Peay though next year. Since APSU has similar handcuffs as Tech, if MT doesn't win that game by a minimum of 28 will be as understanding as we are this year? Or will we say, "come on guys it's only the start of his 2nd year. These things take time."

 

[RaiderDoug]

I think that’s where we’re diverging. You keep referring to this as knee jerk or otherwise thoughtless reactions. It’s not

We've played a grand total of 4 games under the new coaching staff.

4.

If you think that's fair, we'll agree to disagree.

 

[MT01]

We've played a grand total of 4 games under the new coaching staff.

4.

If you think that's fair, we'll agree to disagree.

To say that we have a very bad team this year? Yeah that’s totally fair.

 

[RaiderDoug]

To say that we have a very bad team this year? Yeah that’s totally fair.

Again, not sure what anyone expected right now. Good thing we have 8 more to show improvement.

 

[Brew_Raider]

This is kind of ridiculous.

2000 at Florida. I always suspected it was a player’s mom.

Anyone who remembers that game would remember we had very few reasons to stand up in Gainesville.

 

[ewglenn]

For the back-up QB at wkcc to not complete 90% of his passes for 400 yards in less than a full game.



Not sure what time periods you're referring to, but it's not going to be "fixed" so long as Smith and McPhee are still here. So, I guess that's a significant portion of where my ire is drawn from. But that comment was directed at any fans too who want to make excuses for the back up QB at western making this team look like a sub .500 high school team. There's no excuse for it. I don't care if it's a new coach, 50 new players, etc. It shouldn't happen. But it does here. So that's it. Just don't make excuses for it. That's little middle mentality and I can't stand it. Our fan base is partially to blame for allowing things to get to this point.

I know we're not going to flip things with the team overnight. As I said above yes I am one who thought 5-7 might be reachable at the beginning but even that was with significant apprehension. But as has been pointed out to you several times that you're still not getting it's not the W/L so far it's how bad this team looks that has nothing to do with the opponent. I don't know how to say it any better. Austin said it too and you appear to still not get it. There is nothing about this year's team that's on track. A .500 season isn't even remotely feasible, so if you can't understand that I don't know what else to tell you.

Just to be fair their backup qb isn’t just an average backup. Caden was 40/52 for 383 yards, 5 tds and 1 int in their bowl game win last year vs ODU.