FOOTBALL CRS' best coaching job?

[SpaceRaider]

looking back at the regular season, was 2018 CRS' best coaching job?

As someone not happy about the state of the program in the last half dozen or so years, for so many reasons, I think this might be his best coaching job.

This team was not the most talented, not the strongest, and didn't escape the injury bug that has plagued it in recent seasons. Even if the Blue Raiders were left sitting atop the east, nobody can describe this team as the 'beast of the east.' After watching the team against ut-martin, I left the stadium angry and frustrated that the team should be better than what it showed, and said this looks to be a 4-8 team. The game with FAU showed that this season would be different.

I think this being Brent's final season had something to do with how CRS approached the games. I saw risk taking that I don't recall ever from the coach. I think if CRS had shown more riverboat gambling in big games over the years, the fan support would still be at the levels we had in 2009., because in previous seasons, the NEVER take a risk approach seemed to always fail in the big games.

 

[MTLynn]

Overall, Rick has been more aggressive this year but I think he would be better served with more aggressive offense since the defense has played well.

 

[Blueraider_Mike]

Yes, best coaching job...we had some many holes and yet found a way to get the Championship game. He took so many more risks this year, playing to win at all costs.

As far as would it have made a difference for the fan base, not sure and we will never know.

 

[RaiderDoug]

Can the answer be both yes and we're still disappointed?

Because that's how I feel.

I can see that this team had a special quality about it. Maybe it was veteran 5th year QB, maybe it was Shafer's defense which was the best since the Diaz days. Beating Lane Kiffen's team of media darlings, Marshall at Marshall, and any win over WKU is certainly notable. Perhaps the most telling - I don't think there was any games that you can point at where we didn't give great effort (there's definitely games in the past where I think we've failed to put for maximum effort).

I also can't shake the feeling that this was just another chance (maybe our best chance since the Dasher days) to do something great and we pooped the bed for the umpteenth time.

This was a great MT team - and props to Stock for that. But ultimately, it still was not good enough.

What lies ahead? we're losing Brent, and who knows what our next QB will look like. As long as we have Shafer, our D will be solid. We're still going to have to figure out a way to fix the OL which has been a problem for a half dozen years. Why is recruiting so mediocre at best?

 

[Blueraider_Mike]

Can the answer be both yes and we're still disappointed?

Because that's how I feel.

I can see that this team had a special quality about it. Maybe it was veteran 5th year QB, maybe it was Shafer's defense which was the best since the Diaz days. Beating Lane Kiffen's team of media darlings, Marshall at Marshall, and any win over WKU is certainly notable. Perhaps the most telling - I don't think there was any games that you can point at where we didn't give great effort (there's definitely games in the past where I think we've failed to put for maximum effort).

I also can't shake the feeling that this was just another chance (maybe our best chance since the Dasher days) to do something great and we pooped the bed for the umpteenth time.

This was a great MT team - and props to Stock for that. But ultimately, it still was not good enough.

What lies ahead? we're losing Brent, and who knows what our next QB will look like. As long as we have Shafer, our D will be solid. We're still going to have to figure out a way to fix the OL which has been a problem for a half dozen years. Why is recruiting so mediocre at best?

Regarding recruiting...are we really average...How are we average but keep winning more than most inside the conference...since 2013, I think since we've been in CUSA we are 34-16. I bet this may be the best overall record over the last 6 years. I get we haven't won the most important games but that is a different discussion.

If recruiting isn't up to snuff then we must have really good coaches. Which is the point of the thread. Our coaching on average has been good for several years.

So do you your recruiting question...is it really just "average"? If so, why? Its it our facilities? Is it lack of fans and the recruits see it?

We are all trying to pin point the why...its hard to decipher.

 

[Blueraider_Mike]

Just for fun...CUSA victories since 2013...

MT - 34 wins
Marshall - 34 wins
WKU - 25 wins (only 5 years) - average would project to 30 wins.
LT - 32 wins
USM - 24 wins

Didn't add up anyone else, cause I knew they had fewer wins...

 

[C-Bow]

His best coaching job countered by his worst coaching blunder.

 

[bluefutcpa]

Yes this was his best coaching job. Also our best coaching job against power 5 games we were there in Candy and had Kentucky on the ropes.

 

[blueraiderJT]

We were also the only team in CUSA to beat UAB. App st. may be too much to face but if we somehow won that, this would be his best year.

 

[RaiderDoug]

Regarding recruiting...are we really average...How are we average but keep winning more than most inside the conference...since 2013, I think since we've been in CUSA we are 34-16. I bet this may be the best overall record over the last 6 years. I get we haven't won the most important games but that is a different discussion.

If recruiting isn't up to snuff then we must have really good coaches. Which is the point of the thread. Our coaching on average has been good for several years.

So do you your recruiting question...is it really just "average"? If so, why? Its it our facilities? Is it lack of fans and the recruits see it?

We are all trying to pin point the why...its hard to decipher.

Championship programs both recruit high level athletes and develop them to their fullest potential. We have about half of the equation.

Teams that recruit well but coach poorly don't succeed. Teams that coach well but recruit poorly have a ceiling. I've said it before, our games are lost on signing day, not on gameday.

There's no reason to recruit at the bottom half of the conference when you have been as successful as we have.

You can blame facilities, or attendance. I've only seen North Texas's (stadium's nice, campus meh) and WKU's (campus ok, stadium meh). campuses. But it's tough to imagine that a program that is usually near the top of the conference in budgets is scraping the bottom in any of those key peripherals. At worst, we're average in both metrics.

We don't have a single top 50 Tennessee recruit this year. We signed 2 last year, 2 the year before. That's 150 guys signing 'ships from our own backyard - we signed 4. We're not really making it up out of state, either - most of our recruits are ranked near 100 in Georgia, Alabama, and Florida.

Our recruiting classes are a couple of good talents, supplement then with a horde of hit or miss JUCOs, and 15 guys (mostly WR's) you never hear their name again.

 

[BRaiderDave]

Doug has nailed it

 

[zreed]

At this point? 8 wins? Did it in '09, '12, '13 and '16.

Division championship? At best equal to the '06 co-SBC title.

If we want to be able to point to this season as "special" or at least "different" we have to win the bowl game.

A combination of 9 wins(second most in his tenure), a division title, and a bowl win might be a pretty solid argument, otherwise it's just his 5th time winning at least 8 games and a 6th bowl loss in 8 tries.

 

[MTFNBY5]

Yes this was his best coaching job. Also our best coaching job against power 5 games we were there in Candy and had Kentucky on the ropes.

". . . we were in there in Candy . . ."

Admittedly VU had a better season than expected (and were close to making it much better) but many of us went into that game expecting to win considering what they lost the previous year and where each team was ranked in many pre-season polls. Additionally, we thought Stock and staff would pull our all the stops to salvage one game in the four game series. And to my dismay (since IMHO VU is one of our main rivals for media attention and support) Stock implied in an interview that he considered the first three games as exhibitions.

35-7; not "in there"

 

[sWiley]

His best coaching job countered by his worst coaching blunder.

this

 

[Raiderclyde]

This question is like asking if the glass half-empty or half-full. It depends on your personal expectation and yardstick.

My yardstick winning C-USA Championship on Saturday. No excuses. We did not come through in year 13. It’s a better than average year since we won the East, but we had a favorable schedule, a veteran team, an improved defense, and major breaks from teams that gave help to get to Championship Game (Marshall winning at FIU, FAU defeated FIU, and USM defeating Marshall). We got the outright East.

Winning the New Orleans bowl will definitely help make a stronger case. However, I think that ship has sailed for the best was lost to sea on Saturday. We are now are playing for second best in the Stockstill Era.

 

[zreed]

This question is like asking if the glass half-empty or half-full. It depends on your personal expectation and yardstick.

My yardstick winning C-USA Championship on Saturday. No excuses. We did not come through in year 13. It’s a better than average year since we won the East, but we had a favorable schedule, a veteran team, an improved defense, and major breaks from teams that gave help to get to Championship Game (Marshall winning at FIU, FAU defeated FIU, and USM defeating Marshall). We got the outright East.

Winning the New Orleans bowl will definitely help make a stronger case. However, I think that ship has sailed for the best was lost to sea on Saturday. We are now are playing for second best in the Stockstill Era.

I'm curious which of the 7-6, co-SBC champs 2006 season or the 10-3 first bowl victory 2009 season you would put definitively ahead of this hypothetical 9-4 division championship season.

To me that's about a three way push, all of which have no place in the discussion for best season of coach given 13 years if you ask me...

 

[Blueraider_Mike]

This question is like asking if the glass half-empty or half-full. It depends on your personal expectation and yardstick.

My yardstick winning C-USA Championship on Saturday. No excuses. We did not come through in year 13. It’s a better than average year since we won the East, but we had a favorable schedule, a veteran team, an improved defense, and major breaks from teams that gave help to get to Championship Game (Marshall winning at FIU, FAU defeated FIU, and USM defeating Marshall). We got the outright East.

Winning the New Orleans bowl will definitely help make a stronger case. However, I think that ship has sailed for the best was lost to sea on Saturday. We are now are playing for second best in the Stockstill Era.

Couple of questions

How was our schedule favorable? 3 SEC teams on the road, Marshall and FIU on the road...at the start of the 12th game, 7 of the 11 were on the road. I doubt more than a hand full of G5s played as tough a schedule.

A veteran team? While we had a veteran QB, not sure the rest of the team is more veteran than others.

 

[Raiderclyde]

I would have 2009 as Coach Stockstills best season at 10-3, 7-1 in conference. We had Southern Miss New Orleans Bowl along with Memphis and Maryland as wins. Losses to Miss. State at home, Clemson—BC$ or P5 Conference. Troy had our number and won conference (again). This year, already have 5 losses, 3 to SEC teams and 2 to C-USA (albeit one to Champion UAB Saturday): 2009 is better than 2018, now we are two more in loss column, and one more in conference.

2006 falls short. Schedule had Louisville and Oklahoma as ranked and would be on par OOC with this year, as both were ranked. Louisville was #8, while Georgia was #3: this year might have been a notch harder, but we did better on the scoreboard points in 2006, head to head. This years Kentucky game was close, but was offset by weak Vandy game this year that was not competitive. 2006 also had an ugly shutout to #16 Oklahoma, 0-59. One could say 2018 is greater than 2006 as long as we win the bowl, otherwise we could match with loss #6. 2006 and 2018 would be cloudy if we lost.

This years schedule was favorable because WKU, ODU, FAU, Charlotte, and UTEP had 3-9, 4-8, 5-7, 5-7, and 1-11 for a total record of 18-42. That reflects 5 of our 8 wins. Our sixth was UT Martin that had a 2-9 record in FCS. Thus, a 20-51 record hardly represents strength of schedule and is a serious drawback. That is underscored with UAB, our conference champions received 4 votes in the last poll. If we played 1-2 teams from west such as North Texas, Louisiana Tech, or USM, we could have been talking more like 6-6 for this year, but we will never know since this is conjecture.

Would have to research roster differences and stats to compare 2018, 2009, and 2006 to say what his best season would be. One can make cases on efficiency, pass completions, tackles for loss, and special teams performance to see if our veteran team matched up with the other two. It would be subjective from what I can state now. I did like the chemistry of the 2018 team very well and had tall expectations for them...2018 wins on intangibles for the moment, pending bowl game.

This year will rank second or third for his tenure, depending on how we fare in New Orleans against the Mountaineers of ASU. Yes 2018 is respectable indeed, but still short of what’s needed to raise the prominence of our football program.

It’s the good to great philosophy in play here. Like I mentioned earlier, we have a glass half empty or half full, depending on your perception and the yardstick in play.

Update (12/16/2018): Season ends 45-13 to the Mountaineers of ASU: Ouch! Not much doubt now to where this season falls with a Championship Game loss followed by a blowout in the New Orleans Bowl. So much promise! Only to run into the side of the mountain with multiple false start penalties, interceptions, failed first down attempt in our own territory in second quarter, and beaten by two trick plays including a double reverse. Out-coached and we beat ourselves by not jumping ahead early when we could have built an early 10 or 17 point lead when we had a 3-0 lead and got early turnovers from ASU.

 

[Blueraider_Mike]

I would have 2009 as Coach Stockstills best season at 10-3, 7-1 in conference. We had Southern Miss New Orleans Bowl along with Memphis and Maryland as wins. Losses to Miss. State at home, Clemson—BC$ or P5 Conference. Troy had our number and won conference (again). This year, already have 5 losses, 3 to SEC teams and 2 to C-USA (albeit one to Champion UAB Saturday): 2009 is better than 2018, now we are two more in loss column, and one more in conference.

2006 falls short. Schedule had Louisville and Oklahoma as ranked and would be on par OOC with this year, as both were ranked. Louisville was #8, while Georgia was #3: this year might have been a notch harder, but we did better on the scoreboard points in 2006, head to head. This years Kentucky game was close, but was offset by weak Vandy game this year that was not competitive. 2006 also had an ugly shutout to #16 Oklahoma, 0-59. One could say 2018 is greater than 2006 as long as we win the bowl, otherwise we could match with loss #6. 2006 and 2018 would be cloudy if we lost.

This years schedule was favorable because WKU, ODU, FAU, Charlotte, and UTEP had 3-9, 4-8, 5-7, 5-7, and 1-11 for a total record of 18-42. That reflects 5 of our 8 wins. Our sixth was UT Martin that had a 2-9 record in FCS. Thus, a 20-51 record hardly represents strength of schedule and is a serious drawback. That is underscored with UAB, our conference champions received 4 votes in the last poll. If we played 1-2 teams from west such as North Texas, Louisiana Tech, or USM, we could have been talking more like 6-6 for this year, but we will never know since this is conjecture.

Would have to research roster differences and stats to compare 2018, 2009, and 2006 to say what his best season would be. One can make cases on efficiency, pass completions, tackles for loss, and special teams performance to see if our veteran team matched up with the other two. It would be subjective from what I can state now. I did like the chemistry of the 2018 team very well and had tall expectations for them...2018 wins on intangibles for the moment, pending bowl game.

This year will rank second or third for Coach Stockstills tenure, depending on how we fare in New Orleans against the Mountaineers of ASU. Yes 2018 is respectable indeed, but still short of what’s needed to raise the prominence of our football program.

It’s the good to great philosophy in play here. Like I mentioned earlier, we have a glass half empty or half full, depending on your perception and the yardstick in play.

The question was not which team was best, the question was is this year is best "coaching" job.

The 2009 was a lot more talented than the 2018 team, no question. That team was loaded everywhere - awesome QB, Good RBs, great WRs, the D had too many good players to list them all.

If we are poor recruiters then we have some of the best, if not the best coaches in CUSA...what has UTSA done with all those great recruits?

Not trying to be argumentative, just pointing out the topic.

 

[MTsumner92]

After watching us during the Vanderbilt game....I thought to myself that their was no way we would be in the conference title game. And yet we were. I would have to say this was his best coaching job. We have the best overall coaching staff that I can remember. My only question mark is at OL. We lose 3 and I am not sure we have 3 in the wings to replace them. If we do then ok. Next year I just don't have any hope that we will be better. The OL is what I worry most about. If that turns out to be ok then we are in business again next year. I have to trust that Franklin has been coaching up the next successor. I look at Goff with the Rams and feel comfortable that we have as good as coach as any to make who we have recruited ready. I personally believe that next year is more of a reloading than a rebuilding.

My biggest problem with Stock is that he just keeps us in the dark with what we really have. I have to pay close attention to his assistants in order to get a feel for what we have. I don't believe that is a good strategy on his part. He should be the best sales rep for the upcoming season. Not his coaches. A positive coach with good PR skills can sell a lot of tickets. So can the President and AD.

When I think about the politics Stock has to deal with then Stock has worked a miracle. Just sayin. Going forward I wish that Stock, McPhee, and Massaro could be in full force support of this FOOTBALL program. Not just Stock. I believe that if the alumni truly saw this then the overall support would change. The alumni see that we still don't have an indoor practice facility even though it has been promised for what.....a decade? This is on McPhee and Massarro. Not Stock. Stock has had to avoid this issue in the press for too long. McPhee and Massaro have failed him as far as I am concerned. They have held Stock and coaches back. How many money games do we have to play in order to get the facilities we need to compete nationally? Massaro and McPhee know. They have not delivered. Now we have some flimsy 5 phase plan that gives us an indoor facility last. Shame on them!! Those two are who I would take to task before I would Stock. Just my two cents. Go Raiders!!!

 

[mtfblue]

You need more than an indoor facility to compete with facilities. The operations building is a must have like last year, there is no way a D1 football team should be dressing in a basement in the arena. No way coaches should be in those old outdated offices in the lower part of the arena. The stadium needs an upgrade, it' been 20 years since the last full remodel. I have been to a ton of FCS, FBS schools and whats amazing is the football centers, locker rooms. most don't have indoor unless they are P5. Just getting the basics would be a huge win for the program. Look what Troy just built.

 

[dukewayne]

I think coach stock had his team do better than expected this year. So yeah, that is good. Still no conference title to show for it still isn't cutting it. No conference championships and the abysmal attendance about says it all regarding the need for a fresh infusion of leadership. This year, I suspect coach stock's good job was hiring 3 asst coaches that helped the team. Coach Shafer, Coach Franklin, and Coach Brent Stockstill.

I must bring up the post game interview. I must say that was heart wrenching! I don't know coach stock personally, but I certainly felt for him and believe he wanted with all he had to deliver a win for his son and all the players. That was one of the most difficult post games interviews I've ever seen. I know I felt bad for coach stock, Brent, and all the players.

I readily admit that I want a change in HC at MT (AD too), but it has zero to do with any resentments, dislike, or bitterness towards coach stock. I wish nothing but the best for him. From what I can tell of the man, it's kind of difficult not to like coach stock. Still if after 13 or 14 years of no conf championships, I'm not real bullish on him winning one in the next 4-5 years. As myself and others have posted on here over the last couple of years, perhaps this would be a good time for him to retire. Whatever the case, I do wish the best for the man. I know my heart went out to the man after that game the other day.

If coach stock stays which I ultimately have no control over anyways, I will be hoping for him to win big and obtain a conf championship next year. With Brent departing, I suspect things will only be downhill from here anyways. Maybe rebuilding with a new QB will see MT competing in-conf in a year or two. I'm not exactly holding my breath though. Frankly with as impressive as Coach Shafer has proven with the defense, I will be surprised if he is still here next year. He seems like the type of DC that a lot of programs would be willing to pay big money to secure his services.

 

[dukewayne]

No doubt the facilities need lots of improvements. Basketball has clearly jumped to the front of that line by flat out earning it, in my opinion.

It is a shame the football team does not have an indoor practice facility. While I'm not real high on the progress of things under the current AD, coach stock shares some of that responsibility in my opinion. The now difficult out of conference schedules are a result of a lack of success, energy, and buzz surrounding the football program that has resulted in pathetic attendance. It was only a matter of time under those circumstances that MT would start having to play the big money games to make up for the loss in revenues at home.

 

[Blueraider_Mike]

No doubt the facilities need lots of improvements. Basketball has clearly jumped to the front of that line by flat out earning it, in my opinion.

It is a shame the football team does not have an indoor practice facility. While I'm not real high on the progress of things under the current AD, coach stock shares some of that responsibility in my opinion. The now difficult out of conference schedules are a result of a lack of success, energy, and buzz surrounding the football program that has resulted in pathetic attendance. It was only a matter of time under those circumstances that MT would start having to play the big money games to make up for the loss in revenues at home.

What you say is true...but when I step back from the emotion of it all the way forward is more investing...the money has to come from us...and new fans. Many on this board are saying they will not invest until there is a change. I bet if we would have won the game Saturday, then they would say its fools gold, they need to see more....its as if all are waiting for something they can't define.

Take Stock specifically...while he hasn't won a championship he has won the most conference games in CUSA since 2013. Take his pay (yes, the buyout is big), he is paid in the middle of the conference, several coaches are now paid more. These factors have to count for something...right?

Now moving forward, we are playing 3 body bag games a year to support the ENTIRE athletic program, not just FB - this is not just Stock's fault...one could argue that our department gets more ROI than any other in the entire CUSA when you consider all sports.

I don't want to have to go through what UAB did, I'd rather figure it all out and win at the same time.

I would asked the collective to consider is it the Chicken or the egg that come first?

There is no free lunch. Its seems because the base has lived through hard losses they are not going to come back until we win more...which is impossible with out investing. LIfe doesn't work this way.

 

[RaiderDoug]

What you say is true...but when I step back from the emotion of it all the way forward is more investing...the money has to come from us...and new fans. Many on this board are saying they will not invest until there is a change. I bet if we would have won the game Saturday, then they would say its fools gold, they need to see more....its as if all are waiting for something they can't define.

Take Stock specifically...while he hasn't won a championship he has won the most conference games in CUSA since 2013. Take his pay (yes, the buyout is big), he is paid in the middle of the conference, several coaches are now paid more. These factors have to count for something...right?

Now moving forward, we are playing 3 body bag games a year to support the ENTIRE athletic program, not just FB - this is not just Stock's fault...one could argue that our department gets more ROI than any other in the entire CUSA when you consider all sports.

I don't want to have to go through what UAB did, I'd rather figure it all out and win at the same time.

I would asked the collective to consider is it the Chicken or the egg that come first?

There is no free lunch. Its seems because the base has lived through hard losses they are not going to come back until we win more...which is impossible with out investing. LIfe doesn't work this way.

This over complicates everything.

You hire a coach to build a championship program. That's the goal. It always has been and always will be.

It's not to rack up random wins against the anonymous dregs of college football in November when no one is paying attention.

A coach is hired, given a reasonable time to achieve that goal, and then if they prove incapable, you hire someone else. Repeat as necessary.

The fact that we might lose is meaningless. Everyone, everywhere goes through hard times. People have tuned out because for pretty much the last 9 years, it's the same thing over and over again. We haven't given them a reason to be interested in this since the novelty wore off about 2009 - which coincidentally was the last time we avg over 20k in attendance.

 

[TrueBlue147]

This over complicates everything.

You hire a coach to build a championship program. That's the goal. It always has been and always will be.

It's not to rack up random wins against the anonymous dregs of college football in November when no one is paying attention.

A coach is hired, given a reasonable time to achieve that goal, and then if they prove incapable, you hire someone else. Repeat as necessary.

The fact that we might lose is meaningless. Everyone, everywhere goes through hard times. People have tuned out because for pretty much the last 9 years, it's the same thing over and over again. We haven't given them a reason to be interested in this since the novelty wore off about 2009 - which coincidentally was the last time we avg over 20k in attendance.

Exactly! You don't keep the tired ole coach and AD for so long like we have. That is what kills programs. New blood is needed. If the next coach you higher isn't any good you fire him and move on to the next. That way there is always hope in the program. Every other school in america does this except us. Were stuck with the same president, AD, and football coach for life. Unless you're winning championships (we're not) that is what creates fan apathy.

 

[Raiderclyde]

As Dr James E Walker, our former President once said, “Athletics is the front porch of the university.” What he meant was athletics builds loyalty and affinity to the Middle Tennessee brand, which lifts us long term to higher opportunities on the court, field, diamond, and classroom. He had true vision of what big time college football can do if we harnessed and achieved it’s growth and success. As someone asked about “chicken and egg” analogies, well it’s the idea or the “egg” that is catalyst and “chicken” the incubator. One shouldn’t choose one or the other...it requires both for the program to work effectively!!

Football draws people and money to the university. If you don’t believe me, look no further than University of Alabama Birmingham after they lost their football program. People saw, a coach recommitted, and the leadership saw and embraced the new energized spirit. As a result, they won a championship on our own field in just two years after football returned. This success was unprecedented at this speed. But success requires tremendous vision, work, determination, learning, and relentless pursuit of a goal to earn a championship. Success is not by accident or randomness! Those of us at the game saw we fell just short on Saturday after 13 years of limited progress. MT’s season effort and result was good, but not the best. Year 27 will be the next possible chance for an outright title in football. Will we be at year 27, 30, 35, or 49 before we are finally victorious like UAB in a championship? I hope it’s soon, but stay tuned!

If we are not actively aiming and hungry for championships, than what message are we telling student athletes? What goals are we pursuing? What is our long term vision for Murfreesboro and Middle Tennessee? If we blindly tolerate 6-6, 7-5 ( 7 was our FBS win total, pending the bowl game) or 8-4 as a successful year, every year, what does that say about our leaders? Did we see 15,806 fans at Championship Game Saturday, December 1, 2018? These questions and many others are starting points for the way forward, whatever that may lead.

We are either growing or regresssing. Every program has a down year, two, or even three, and that is expected over decades. But when minimal progress stretches to half-decade and beyond, it’s time for serious evaluation of the direction and reaffirmation of the basic mission. It’s not only applies to football, but to all athletic programs—even if we fielded a Tiddlywinks team. Think executive leadership needs to be evaluated with heavy scrutiny at this juncture, given where we are in our history.