Call me an idiot but....

[blueraiderJT]

One final point. You know what Hawaii did defensively? The same thing UTSA and Marshall did. They blitzed the hell out of us for most of the game. They kept doing it and once they got our routes and timing figured out, they lived in our backfield. When we ran those outside pitches and option plays, we had success. Why wouldn't you keep doing that with Richie and I'tavius when it worked?

3 turnovers in our own redzone with one being a pick 6, was basically 21 points we gave away.

It was a total team failure vs. Hawaii. The D melted down and yes, we fired our DC because of it but I didn't agree with the offensive gameplan either. Especially after the first turnover. That's all that I'm saying.

...And yes, I'm excited to get a new DC that won't line up LB's 5-6 yards from the LOS to stop an obvious run play or never blitz when they should.

 

[TeKEraider]

We can stick our head in the sand about what the offense does to the defense if we want, but just go ahead and get ready for a disappointing hire because the job of being yin to this offense's yang is not desirable for a lot of coaches. Be ready to talk about how terrible the new guy is if we continue to not extend drives and commit 3 plus turnovers a game.

I just cant understand how you can watch the flow of that game and not see what happened. After 3 straight defensive stops we go fumble, int, 1:23 punt, Pick 6. Defense was gassed and never recovered. It wasn't just that game. UTSA 4 turnovers. Marshall 4 turnovers. That doesn't even take into account the sub 1:30 drives. Against FIU out of 11 possessions 6 were under 1:20 and 4 were under 53 seconds. Our "long" drives were in the 2 minute range.They doubled us up in time of possession. With the exception being the end of the game when we were trying to slow down, we punted the ball 6 times with an average possession under 2 minutes. Of course they gave up points. What did the D do after the one rest they got when we slowed down and had a 4 minute drive before we punted? They got a pick six that won the game.

You guys keep comparing us to WKU but our offense was nowhere near as efficient as theirs was and that was a big part of the difference. It takes other teams out of their game plan. It kept their opponents under pressure, forces mistakes, and allows the D to take chances. Our offense was no where near that efficient. Their drives were consistently longer than ours. You can compare other games but look at the first 5 possessions in their bowl versus ours. We went 2 td's,a fumble on our on 20, an INT, and punt that took 5:34. They had 4 TD's and a punt that took 17:04. Their D saw the field 3 times in the first quarter. Ours was out there 6. WKU gave up 10 points in the first 3 drives. We gave up 0. Despite fewer trips on the field and triple the time to rest they gave up 261 in the first half compared to our 243. Our guys had to defend short fields. They didn't. Our guys were gassed. Theirs weren't. We got pushed around in the second half because of it. They didn't.

I am not singing the praises of the D. They weren't great. Maybe not even good, but in almost every game with the exception of one or two they held their own until TOP started becoming 2-1 and turnovers started piling up. I am just saying that this is a team game and that the offense does have a major influence on the D. If we don't fix both than this season is as good as we are going to get.

 

[RaiderDoug]

Have we really come to the strategy of "let's not try to score so much so we can help our D"?

How about we just get a better defense?

WKU led the league in scoring D. USM, LATech, and ODU all had offenses that scored more than 35ppg, and yet somehow managed to be ahead of us in scoring defense.

Powerful offense and a tight defense are not mutually exclusive.

This is a team that scored 40 point per game. I don't see how anyone can lay this disaster at the feet of the offense.

 

[FranklinRaider315]

I'm not going to address this idiotic thread again. Anyone with half a brain can see the real problem. I can hear my former college coach now if I got burned deep and told him it was the offense's fault for scoring too quickly and I didn't get my rest. He would tell me to pack my bags and get the hell out of his locker room.

I may share this bullshit with Boots today just to see what he thinks but I already have a pretty good idea.

I'm done.

 

[blueraiderJT]

Well, talking to a Memphis fan/ football player about football makes as much sense as a monkey trying to screw a football.

Yes the D is bad but you can make adjustments to make sure they aren't on the field for 40 minutes. It might help. If you knew anything about the sport, I wouldn't have to say it.

If you really played the game, did you play for 40 minutes straight and not get burned? Really? If you were that good you wouldn't have played for Memphis when they sucked a$$.

I can't stand morons.

 

[blueraiderJT]

Have we really come to the strategy of "let's not try to score so much so we can help our D"?

How about we just get a better defense?

WKU led the league in scoring D. USM, LATech, and ODU all had offenses that scored more than 35ppg, and yet somehow managed to be ahead of us in scoring defense.

Powerful offense and a tight defense are not mutually exclusive.

This is a team that scored 40 point per game. I don't see how anyone can lay this disaster at the feet of the offense.

Of course you improve the D but the D can't be improved in the middle of the !@!@!#@#* season so you have to use the offense to adjust. Sheesh. Sometimes you gotta do weird sh!t to make crap work if it ain't going to plan. It's not ideal but it keeps you winning.

If I'm in the Hawaii game and I'm up 14-0, I already hit em in the mouth. So now, I'm about protecting the ball not turning it over so I can cut out the low percentage plays and use the high percentage ones to keep the clock moving and possibly score again. Hawaii was 116th in stopping the run but we threw like on every play in that stretch. It didn't work and now your bad D has to come out and play lockdown D on their own 20? Come on, that's gonna work? No. So play keep away and run clock instead of forcing the ball into triple coverage for another pick.

BTW, in those games we mentioned, we didn't "score so much". We turned the ball over like 13 times in our last 5 games alone. That's not counting turnover on downs which we had a few of those too.

 

[blueraiderJT]

We can stick our head in the sand about what the offense does to the defense if we want, but just go ahead and get ready for a disappointing hire because the job of being yin to this offense's yang is not desirable for a lot of coaches. Be ready to talk about how terrible the new guy is if we continue to not extend drives and commit 3 plus turnovers a game.

I just cant understand how you can watch the flow of that game and not see what happened. After 3 straight defensive stops we go fumble, int, 1:23 punt, Pick 6. Defense was gassed and never recovered. It wasn't just that game. UTSA 4 turnovers. Marshall 4 turnovers. That doesn't even take into account the sub 1:30 drives. Against FIU out of 11 possessions 6 were under 1:20 and 4 were under 53 seconds. Our "long" drives were in the 2 minute range.They doubled us up in time of possession. With the exception being the end of the game when we were trying to slow down, we punted the ball 6 times with an average possession under 2 minutes. Of course they gave up points. What did the D do after the one rest they got when we slowed down and had a 4 minute drive before we punted? They got a pick six that won the game.

You guys keep comparing us to WKU but our offense was nowhere near as efficient as theirs was and that was a big part of the difference. It takes other teams out of their game plan. It kept their opponents under pressure, forces mistakes, and allows the D to take chances. Our offense was no where near that efficient. Their drives were consistently longer than ours. You can compare other games but look at the first 5 possessions in their bowl versus ours. We went 2 td's,a fumble on our on 20, an INT, and punt that took 5:34. They had 4 TD's and a punt that took 17:04. Their D saw the field 3 times in the first quarter. Ours was out there 6. WKU gave up 10 points in the first 3 drives. We gave up 0. Despite fewer trips on the field and triple the time to rest they gave up 261 in the first half compared to our 243. Our guys had to defend short fields. They didn't. Our guys were gassed. Theirs weren't. We got pushed around in the second half because of it. They didn't.

I am not singing the praises of the D. They weren't great. Maybe not even good, but in almost every game with the exception of one or two they held their own until TOP started becoming 2-1 and turnovers started piling up. I am just saying that this is a team game and that the offense does have a major influence on the D. If we don't fix both than this season is as good as we are going to get.

EXACTLY! One person gets it on here. I'll take it.

 

[sWiley]

I just cant understand how you can watch the flow of that game and not see what happened. After 3 straight defensive stops we go fumble, int, 1:23 punt, Pick 6. Defense was gassed and never recovered.

So the defense was gassed after 3 series (and 3 quick series at that)? I am hardly buying that.

Hawaii adjusted is what happened. and FYI, the Hawaii defense has been slow starters all year. In a lot of the games they've played this year, they've spotted teams a few touchdowns before they got going. Our game was no different. Our defense was NOT gassed after 3 series. They got torched because Hawaii adjusted and our defense didn't, period.

 

[sWiley]

I am not singing the praises of the D. They weren't great. Maybe not even good, but in almost every game with the exception of one or two they held their own until TOP started becoming 2-1 and turnovers started piling up. I am just saying that this is a team game and that the offense does have a major influence on the D. If we don't fix both than this season is as good as we are going to get.

This is false. Turnovers were basically nonexistent for the first 8 games (I think we had 8 turnovers the first 8 games which is 100% acceptable) and our defense was garbage the entire time. The turnovers didn't start piling up UNTIL Brent was injured (go check the stats if you're that concerned). The only game with unacceptable turnovers that involved Brent was against Hawaii; he's allowed one bad game.

Get your facts straight before you start spewing false narratives, please.

 

[MTTim]

Of course you improve the D but the D can't be improved in the middle of the !@!@!#@#* season so you have to use the offense to adjust. Sheesh. Sometimes you gotta do weird sh!t to make crap work if it ain't going to plan. It's not ideal but it keeps you winning.

If I'm in the Hawaii game and I'm up 14-0, I already hit em in the mouth. So now, I'm about protecting the ball not turning it over so I can cut out the low percentage plays and use the high percentage ones to keep the clock moving and possibly score again. Hawaii was 116th in stopping the run but we threw like on every play in that stretch. It didn't work and now your bad D has to come out and play lockdown D on their own 20? Come on, that's gonna work? No. So play keep away and run clock instead of forcing the ball into triple coverage for another pick.

BTW, in those games we mentioned, we didn't "score so much". We turned the ball over like 13 times in our last 5 games alone. That's not counting turnover on downs which we had a few of those too.

JT you been pretty reasonable in the past but the bolded part of your statement above is about the dumbest thing I have seen. This is not xbox football.

 

[FranklinRaider315]

JT you been pretty reasonable in the past but the bolded part of your statement above is about the dumbest thing I have seen. This is not xbox football.

Let him run with it. It's great entertainment.

 

[Hop45]

We had a bad turnover game vs Vandy also.

 

[crclarke55]

This is false. Turnovers were basically nonexistent for the first 8 games (I think we had 8 turnovers the first 8 games which is 100% acceptable) and our defense was garbage the entire time. The turnovers didn't start piling up UNTIL Brent was injured (go check the stats if you're that concerned). The only game with unacceptable turnovers that involved Brent was against Hawaii; he's allowed one bad game.

Get your facts straight before you start spewing false narratives, please.

While I usually agree with your narrative, in said game against Hawaii you called for Brent's backup to play. You defiantly lose some points here as one bad game all year and his consistency by no means warranted that.

The D was terrible, no way around it. Absolutely no pass rush all season which is totally unacceptable. That falls directly on Nix and our recruiting. There is no way we can't recruit 6'1 to 6'3 kids at 225+ that can't rush the passer and develop them.

Bottom line is we've recruited poorly on defense and didn't have a scheme to overcome it.

 

[crclarke55]

Another thing that is easily forgotten is how terrible and awful our special teams, outside our FG kicker, was all year. We've been awful on special teams for years and nobody speaks to it. We average 30 yards a punt and our opponents start at the 40 yard line or better on kickoffs..... Who is fixing this as is costs us games and doesn't get near enough attention.

 

[blueraiderJT]

So if the D is terrible, why do you run an offense that leaves them out there for nearly 40 minutes? It's dumb to assume that's what you're stuck with and you can't adjust offensively to it in order to counterbalance. Does it cure the whole problem? No. Of course not but it does provide an opportunity to not get blown off the field and stay in the game.

My point about the D not getting better in the middle of the season was more about injuries to a squad with not a lot of depth and other teams adjusting to them knowing where the weak spots are. It's not an excuse. That crap happened. If I'm the OC, I want to control the course of the game if I can especially if I'm not gonna get the help I need from the D. This is why personally I like the triple option. You can run off huge chunks of clock and your D stays fresh. It ain't sexy but it can be very effective.

Wiley, the D didn't get gassed after 3 stops in the beginning. They got gassed after the 2 turnovers and multiple 3 and outs with less than a minute taken off the clock. 2 of the 3 TO's put them in their own redzone with like 25 seconds in between series. It matters. Should a defense be lockdown in those situations? Yes. Absolutely in a perfect situation where there is a lot of depth and good coaching. We didn't have that so call an audible and try different stuff to lessen their time on the field to eliminate as much liability as you can.

Franklin's system is designed to be at a super fast tempo but what happens when it derails and no adjustments are made? 52-35 happens. Coaches that don't adjust lose games and we lost. It may not be XBOX, but it ain't rocket science either.

 

[blueraiderJT]

Another thing that is easily forgotten is how terrible and awful our special teams, outside our FG kicker, was all year. We've been awful on special teams for years and nobody speaks to it. We average 30 yards a punt and our opponents start at the 40 yard line or better on kickoffs..... Who is fixing this as is costs us games and doesn't get near enough attention.

I completely agree with that and it's a good point. Ellis is the special teams coach I believe or he was for a long time. I think he still is.

 

[blueraiderJT]

JT you been pretty reasonable in the past but the bolded part of your statement above is about the dumbest thing I have seen. This is not xbox football.

Did the D improve throughout the season? No. Can you make adjustments to make sure they are not out there for 40 minutes? Yes. Should they improve throughout the season. Yes but did they? Nope which is why they fired him. What the heck do they do during the season then? That's where the head coach has got to take the helm and make those adjustments to keep the liability at a minimum. That means change the scheme a bit. You can put wrinkles in to vary the tempo. Even WKU does that. Nick Holt did that during the Memphis game and they won by 20 points. That ain't XBOX. That's good coaching.

We didn't do that and we lost. Why are we arguing about this? Nix is gone.

 

[TeKEraider]

As somebody already pointed out, I didn't say the were gassed after 3 drives. It was 6, none of which went 2:00. Without taking the time to chart all the sub 1:30 drives, which there were way too many to count, turnovers and TOP were absolutely the keys to this season. We lost 5 games. 4 of those we had 3 or more turnovers. The one loss that we didn't have significant turnovers was WKU. We held them to 30 points in regulation. The rest of the conference averaged giving up almost 50. If I had told you before the game we would hold WKU to 30 is there anybody here that wouldn't take that? Again I'm not saying the D was great but most of the games we lost the D was set up to fail.

 

[blueraiderJT]

They certainly weren't helped in those games.

 

[MTTim]

Did the D improve throughout the season? No. Can you make adjustments to make sure they are not out there for 40 minutes? Yes. Should they improve throughout the season. Yes but did they? Nope which is why they fired him. What the heck do they do during the season then? That's where the head coach has got to take the helm and make those adjustments to keep the liability at a minimum. That means change the scheme a bit. You can put wrinkles in to vary the tempo. Even WKU does that. Nick Holt did that during the Memphis game and they won by 20 points. That ain't XBOX. That's good coaching.

We didn't do that and we lost. Why are we arguing about this? Nix is gone.

I'm not arguing. I just pointed out a dumb statement. Every single coach will tell you they expect their team to progress throughout the season regardless of injuries, opponents or whatever happens. If they don't it's on the coach. The adjustment you make is fire the coach not change the offense. TF's offense is to be uptempo, not fast. There is a difference.
WKU has a much more efficient offense. They can score and get first downs without changing their tempo. Their defense knows how to stop 3rd and longs and pressure the QB when needed. They are not great but coached well.

 

[MTTim]

Another thing that is easily forgotten is how terrible and awful our special teams, outside our FG kicker, was all year. We've been awful on special teams for years and nobody speaks to it. We average 30 yards a punt and our opponents start at the 40 yard line or better on kickoffs..... Who is fixing this as is costs us games and doesn't get near enough attention.

I agree other than Rooker our special teams are crap. I've heard Stock doesn't think special teams are a priority. I know we are not Bama but Saban will tell you they are just as important as the offense and defense. Special teams will win games for you.

 

[FranklinRaider315]

Paul Bear Bryant used to say that no other phase of the game can get you beat quicker than the kicking game.

 

[blueraiderJT]

All of those are good points especially about Special Teams. Our return game has gone in the crapper.

WKU does change their tempo. I was at the CUSA championship games last year and this year and saw it live. Sure, they'll hit you with the 3 play 72 TD with 45 seconds off the clock but they will also go into 5-6 minute drives in the middle of the game as well. The difference is that they don't punt much and they take care of the ball more.

Holt also did it more in the bowl game. They score a lot of points because they sell the run or short yardage play really well and then will hit you with a big vertical pass play downfield. They really are a machine as much as I hate to say it.

Hopefully, we will get a great DC who will know how to stop the run. Holt is rumored to go to Purdue but it isn't definite. If he gets left out, he should be our main target. He was making as much as Nix or close to it. That would be a great pickup. It's a pipe dream but man, I would be happy with it.

 

[MTTim]

I enjoy watching Holt coaching the sidelines. He's intense and motivates his players.

 

[mtfblue]

where is holt at, did he go with brohm?

 

[RaiderDoug]

where is holt at, did he go with brohm?

No word if Sanford has retained him yet. He named another guy DC, so it if stays at WKU, it's going to be a demotion.

No word on if he went to Purdue yet.

WKU led the conference in scoring D. He would be a home run hire, IMHO at our level.

 

[dukewayne]

While turnovers has been an issue in some seasons, I thought Brent and Mathers generally did pretty good in taking care of the ball this season. The big bunch of those turnovers in losing efforts were when Brent was injured and out. In the bowl game, my guess was that Brent not playing ball for a couple of months just got him out of sync. It happens, hard to hold that against a guy who usually is pretty good about taking care of the ball.

As for the backup QB and turnovers, kind of hard to hold it against a r-Fr getting significant playing time for the first time in his college career. Especially hard to blame him when the defense plays poorly to almost make every offensive possession a TD possession. One would argue that perhaps coach stock could have put him in more toward the end of games to get the young QB some experience. Again, this year it seemed most games the offense was still trying to win late in games.

I sort of get the temptation to consider the offense fast scoring as a problem for the poorly playing defense. It just seems to me though that a good defense will get off the field with a fair amount of 3 and outs and a fair amount of drives stopped after only 1 or 2 1st downs. A good defense getting off the field on 3rd down from the beginning of the game has time of poss in their hands it seems at that point. Frankly, you could argue that a defense getting off the field on 3rd down could allow the offense to score even more with an increase in time of poss for the offense. Sadly after the Alabama A&M game, MT's defense struggled mightily to stop opponents' offenses. It seemed the idea was not to give up the big play to the neglect of allowing opponents to get 5 and 6 yards on any given play. The result, the defense giving up long drawn out scoring drives where the opponents could consistently get first downs and chew up the clock driving down the field.

 

[sWiley]

No way he's stay at WKU if he isn't DC. I would be surprised if Brohm doesn't bring him to Purdue, but we'll see. Nick Holt certainly should be on Stock's radar but for some reason I just don't see that happening.

I must say, I would love to have his energy on the sidelines because our coaching staff is quite dull. Maybe a guy like that is exactly what we need.