Which option should MT take

[MT01]

Obviously not. Glad you recognize BOTH OF THOSE WERE RISKY.

Going to the MAC is not risky - it is the most stable G5 conference. Staying in CUSA is - it is the worst and most unstable G5 conference.

I believe it is very risky. There are significant long term consequences. I don't view the decision to go to the MAC in linear fashion. It's a complex decision and there are a myriad of factors that people on message boards aren't taking into consideration about the MAC. Just because they've had a steady membership and using that as a deciding factor is a very naïve. There is a reason why no one has plucked their members. And having our football in the north for perpetuity is just as risky as hanging out in C-USA.

But when it comes to schools at our level there is pretty much nothing as important as cash. Something we are desperately in need of.

Last thing I will say on it is whether M&M can make the right decisions or not or pull the right strings through that process is what it is. Whatever folks opinion of that is what I'm doing is saying here's what's best for MT based on looking at ALL of the factors. Not just one that says well because that league over there doesn't lose schools to better conferences we should go there and be a mediocre there in their mediocre conference. That's not how I think. I want MT to excel even that's never been our own administration's drive. That won't happen in the MAC.

 

[MTOleBlue]

I believe it is very risky. There are significant long term consequences. I don't view the decision to go to the MAC in linear fashion. It's a complex decision and there are a myriad of factors that people on message boards aren't taking into consideration about the MAC. Just because they've had a steady membership and using that as a deciding factor is a very naïve. There is a reason why no one has plucked their members. And having our football in the north for perpetuity is just as risky as hanging out in C-USA.

But when it comes to schools at our level there is pretty much nothing as important as cash. Something we are desperately in need of.

Last thing I will say on it is whether M&M can make the right decisions or not or pull the right strings through that process is what it is. Whatever folks opinion of that is what I'm doing is saying here's what's best for MT based on looking at ALL of the factors. Not just one that says well because that league over there doesn't lose schools to better conferences we should go there and be a mediocre there in their mediocre conference. That's not how I think. I want MT to excel even that's never been our own administration's drive. That won't happen in the MAC.

I bolded the most important part of all of this. If we go to the MAC, it'll be because the people who know more than any of us decided it's the best move. If the MAC invites us, it's because they see benefit. If they don't - or if we decline, then they/we didn't see any. Saying "Well, we'll get this much $ if we stay" and doing all sorts of calculations are fun games to play, but you're right - it's not the full picture. The most important player in all of it is ESPN. If ESPN wants it done, it'll happen. Oversimplified, maybe - but let's not pretend like they don't rule all of college sports at this point. It's not "very naïve" to point out how stable the conference is; I'm not saying that's the only factor in whether it's risky or not. And it shouldn't be. But a conference isn't just one sport, either. All the other sports come into play there as well in terms of how successful we could be in a new home, whether that's the MAC or FCS-ified CUSA.

 

[RaiderDoug]

I believe it is very risky. There are significant long term consequences. I don't view the decision to go to the MAC in linear fashion. It's a complex decision and there are a myriad of factors that people on message boards aren't taking into consideration about the MAC. Just because they've had a steady membership and using that as a deciding factor is a very naïve. There is a reason why no one has plucked their members. And having our football in the north for perpetuity is just as risky as hanging out in C-USA.

But when it comes to schools at our level there is pretty much nothing as important as cash. Something we are desperately in need of.

Last thing I will say on it is whether M&M can make the right decisions or not or pull the right strings through that process is what it is. Whatever folks opinion of that is what I'm doing is saying here's what's best for MT based on looking at ALL of the factors. Not just one that says well because that league over there doesn't lose schools to better conferences we should go there and be a mediocre there in their mediocre conference. That's not how I think. I want MT to excel even that's never been our own administration's drive. That won't happen in the MAC.

you criticize the “stability” as if that’s not a factor.

It’s not only a factor, it’s perhaps the most important factor.

There is no world where CUSA thrives out of this. Not with this leadership involved. I think there’s a better than average chance that CUSA simply doesn’t exist in a few years. All the short term money in the world isn’t going to help MTSU in that case.

And as for positioning ourselves to end up someplace better - look around at what’s left of CUSA - we’re the 4th most attractive team out of the 5 left. The AAC ain’t calling, even if we re-paint the stadium and buff up some facilities with all our short term cash. They’re going to call WKU or FIU or LT before the phone rings over at MT.

Your ideal path forward only works if like 7 different things happen to break all exactly right. And those things will have to be done by leaders who have for decades continued to do the wrong thing.

 

[MT01]

Then Doug in that case my vote isn't up there. Just drop football and give up all together. Because that's paramount to the same thing. It's a white flag. I don't think that way no matter how bad our leadership is. They will leave some day and things could improve.

So, I just don't see it the way you do. I agree about our leaders, but there is one thing I can tell you with certainty. We will never be anything but a P5 homecoming cupcake opponent if we go to the MAC.

Stick it out for a few more years, and it could be a decision that propels us to the future. There is no propelling by settling for the MAC. That said, if Judy is in charge and tries to add five or six FCS schools then it's a no brainer we have to go to the MAC if offered.

 

[blueraiderJT]

Y'all do know that Thamel backtracked on that tweet and said that nothing will happen anytime soon and that the MAC isn't feeling pressure to expand. Thamel is a view getter so he throws out crap on a late Friday to get a rise. Post now retract later and get the clickbait views. The talks are probably gonna happen but it will be a while like maybe months for any Maction happens. LOL.

 

[blueraiderJT]

 

[Raiderclyde]

Then Doug in that case my vote isn't up there. Just drop football and give up all together. Because that's paramount to the same thing. It's a white flag. I don't think that way no matter how bad our leadership is. They will leave some day and things could improve.

So, I just don't see it the way you do. I agree about our leaders, but there is one thing I can tell you with certainty. We will never be anything but a P5 homecoming cupcake opponent if we go to the MAC.

Stick it out for a few more years, and it could be a decision that propels us to the future. There is no propelling by settling for the MAC. That said, if Judy is in charge and tries to add five or six FCS schools then it's a no brainer we have to go to the MAC if offered.

The big picture question is: What exactly has become our athletic mission? I have a personified example of how it’s perceived from a bordering county seat town:

This afternoon, I attended a milestone birthday party of a friend in Lebanon and was not able to attend Homecoming game due to time conflict. However, I had my phone handy getting updates and got in a conversation about C-USA and FBS College Football conference shakeups. In discussion about MT and WKU’s conference situation, what was essentially said by this friend of mine was “MT and WKU should move back to the OVC and play Tech and Tenn. State, and Murray” because it was more fun to watch and rivalries can be followed more readily. Know Murray is in process of moving to the MVC, but this is the perception to many Jack and Diane citizen in Murfreesboro and surrounding areas. Even talked with a 1980s alumni in this three way conversation. When leaving the birthday party, tried to flip on car radio to listen and could not find the game easily (thanks to Dr McPhee and Chris Massaro for not having the flagship on crystal clear 89.5 WMOT.). I tuned to 93.9 WDUC and the two FM translators WGNS operates. Could not get WGNS on FM in southern Wilson Co! Had to be near Exit 61 at Jefferson Pike to receive. The AM 1450 signal had gone to evening and night power (which is about the range of the 1995 Murfreesboro city limits); all the while my IPhone 12 was sitting in tray charging and not really safe (or lawful) for me to touch while driving. So streaming wasn’t an convenient option unless I took time to stop somewhere to set my phone up for Bluetooth.

This one example is indicative of what our athletics mission has become—the sports product is more difficult to access, loss of importance in life choices (just wait 20 minutes to get home is fine), increased dissatisfaction and disappointment when games and it’s results really matter to championships, and seeing peer and newbie FBS programs passing us by to greater achievements and in the case of a tenth year UTSA this year—a AP ranking that we never have earned as an FBS member in 23 years and counting.

Of course, I’m glad we scored a victory over the USM Golden Eagles 35-10, but what FBS program has a shallow radio network—it’s range is more like an D-3 or NAIA program. Am sure there are other examples we can cite, but this is illustrative why the AAC and more prominent conferences do not invite us—our leadership, facilities, and tactical execution is frankly poor (and arguably worse than 15-20 years ago).

MT should be very thankful and appreciate a MAC invite, if it comes. Because, we are thought of as an FCS or even a D-2 program in football and probably in other sports locally.

 

[MTLynn]

When leaving the birthday party, tried to flip on car radio to listen and could not find the game easily (thanks to Dr McPhee and Chris Massaro for not having the flagship on crystal clear 89.5 WMOT.). I tuned to 93.9 WDUC and the two FM translators WGNS operates. Could not get WGNS on FM in southern Wilson Co! Had to be near Exit 61 at Jefferson Pike to receive. The AM 1450 signal had gone to evening and night power (which is about the range of the 1995 Murfreesboro city limits); all the while my IPhone 12 was sitting in tray charging and not really safe (or lawful) for me to touch while driving. So streaming wasn’t an convenient option unless I took time to stop somewhere to set my phone up for Bluetooth.

This one example is indicative of what our athletics mission has become—the sports product is more difficult to access, loss of importance in life choices (just wait 20 minutes to get home is fine), increased dissatisfaction and disappointment when games and it’s results really matter to championships, and seeing peer and newbie FBS programs passing us by to greater achievements and in the case of a tenth year UTSA this year—a AP ranking that we never have earned as an FBS member in 23 years and counting.

Of course, I’m glad we scored a victory over the USM Golden Eagles 35-10, but what FBS program has a shallow radio network—it’s range is more like an D-3 or NAIA program. Am sure there are other examples we can cite, but this is illustrative why the AAC and more prominent conferences do not invite us—our leadership, facilities, and tactical execution is frankly poor (and arguably worse than 15-20 years ago).

MT should be very thankful and appreciate a MAC invite, if it comes. Because, we are thought of as an FCS or even a D-2 program in football and probably in other sports locally.

Yeah, somebody convince me that 7 wood isn't purposefully choking off the fan support of MT athletics. Has he been paid off?

 

[crclarke55]

Give me the scenario why if folds and then I can answer that.

Sure, we can’t get Liberty, UMass, NM state or anyone to come up. Then what?

 

[galojah]

Have you all heard anything from the MTSU athletic office that they are exploring this possibility?

I feel the decision WKU and MTSU both have to make is dependent on if they think there is another opportunity in three or four years (say if/when Memphis and SMU head up to B12) that gets them into a more stable southern conference. I hope they are talking to some AAC schools and B12 to understand the next dominos. If that possibility exists, do you sit tight and cash in on all the exit fees the C-USA is making?

If not, if the future doesn't look too promising with C-USA and/or future realignment -- do you take the plunge and join the MAC?

I think we all agree that the MAC is not what any of us would wish for, but may be the best option.

 

[Raiderclyde]

Have you all heard anything from the MTSU athletic office that they are exploring this possibility?

I feel the decision WKU and MTSU both have to make is dependent on if they think there is another opportunity in three or four years (say if/when Memphis and SMU head up to B12) that gets them into a more stable southern conference. I hope they are talking to some AAC schools and B12 to understand the next dominos. If that possibility exists, do you sit tight and cash in on all the exit fees the C-USA is making?

If not, if the future doesn't look too promising with C-USA and/or future realignment -- do you take the plunge and join the MAC?

I think we all agree that the MAC is not what any of us would wish for, but may be the best option.

The problem(s) that I have with such a thought by WKU/MT's athletic leaders it seems to be so reactive. Cannot speak for WKU as I do not intimately know leadership and alignment with long term mission and vision. But, what my observation is with MT as alumnus is our goal was to become FBS and access C-USA. It was done mainly with the foundation made by James (Boots) Donnelly had with football and the vision of Dr. James E. Walker who was our university President years ago. We achieved the capstone in 2013 and largely rested on laurels since; however, the world and scenery is always ever changing. It's like what Lee Iacocca said many years ago while the head of Chrysler Corporation: lead, follow, or get out of the way. That's a similar type of decision MT confronts today. Break up of C-USA is forcing our hand into difficult decisions that frankly we are ill-prepared and carries a high risk of wiping out the goodwill 23 years of FBS football and decades of fan support as well as university and corporate giving--- whatever that happens to be.

Whether engineering of the football program was to get to a 6-6 or 7-5 sweet spot where MT is bowl eligible every year and attempt to win the "all sports" trophies at the end of the academic year at a certain budget level is not definitive on paper or not, "reverting to the mean" has resulted and fans and businesses do not want to invest time or money in the product. There are too many options available from $EC athletics to professional sports in the "it city". Years have taken their toll on our facilities, the recruiting world will be more aggressive with NIL coming into play, and the musical chairs of conference shuffles means that marginal teams will be left without a chair when the music stops. That is C-USA in the here and now..

For MT and WKU, think the MAC absolutely makes sense. It's what our budgets can afford, not just from football but for the Olympic sports too. The current and future iteration of C-USA will have us in three time zones covering the entire nation. Potentially from Storrs, CT to Las Cruses, NM. The new C-USA (4.0 or 5.0 if we count the old Metro where USM was in the eighties) could be next in the Dakotas if NDSU moves upward, Liberty University (one of the better additions available) or wherever Commissioner Judy decides to take us. We cannot credibly trust that decision and leadership, in my view. Put another way, its like operating a retail establishment in a regional mall such as Stones River, Greenwood, or in Florence, Alabama: if anchor retailers leave and greatly reduced traffic results, how can revenue grow and our programs progress where a top recruit wants to go? Stability and visibility of product goes a long way towards meeting engagement and expectations goals...will our leadership see this opportunity before there isn't really a choice?

"Failure to prepare is preparing to fail"--a statement the late John Wooden of UCLA was credited in saying. Am afraid were seeing that harvest starting to mature not in MT's favor.

 

[RaiderDoug]

We will never be anything but a P5 homecoming cupcake opponent if we go to the MAC.

I’d be interested to learn why you think this?

We would have the best recruiting state in the conference (maybe 2nd to Ohio, but no worse). We would be the closest school in the conference to the best recruiting grounds in Georgia and Florida.

Someone had us with either the highest or second highest paid staff in the conference - this generally gives an advantage. None of those schools have a giant budget or facilities advantage.

And I don’t see the north vs south thing as a big deal, because the new CUSA is going to be about as southern as the big 12. CUSA is going to pivot to Texas with FCS adds, and Their rumored FBS adds are New Mexico, Connecticut, and Virginia (not traditionally a southern state from a college football perspective).

I get that folks may not be enthused about the MAC, but the whole “I’d rather give up football” makes no sense.

The MAC has had some very successful teams, ranked teams, NYD bowl teams, plays on ESPN, has decent Bball, puts a ton of guys in the NFL. It’s not the end of the world.

 

[MTTim]

Breakdown of C-USA Revenue Distributions

In 2014, C-USA revenues were about $52 distributed across members. MT and other new members got about one million less than holdover members due to exit and entrance fees but would have been much higher for the holdovers had C-USA not gone to 14 members. Generally speaking C-USA on given year in 3.0 distributes about $30 to $35M. Ergo schools within C-USA receive about $2.5M to $2.7M annually from the league. MT has earned as much as $3.7M a few years ago. About $17M of this comes from the college football playoff. Even with MT and other league members success in the first round of the NCAA Tournament revenue from basketball units is considerably less than CFB playoff revenues.

C-USA does use a performance based metric to distribute revenue in a normal year. Last year MT only got about $1.8M from the league primarily because of our shitty basketball and losing football season. Below I will break down what we will give up by going to the MAC assuming we add three and stay at eight for a few years.

Normal Distributions
We will assume the lower end of the range at $30M for the sake of argument. Normal distributions would be split eight ways at $3.75M.

Exit Fee Revenue
I’ve seen a $3M exit fee in some reporting. Marshall’s beat reporter has put it at $5.6M, but CBS puts it at $4M. Splitting the difference and using a reputable source I’m going to use the $4M as the exit fee. With nine defectors that’s a $36M haul to be split among the five of us left. That comes out to $7.2M per school. Im also going to assume C-USA wil elect to distribute exit and entrance fees over a two year window to entice us not look to jump immediately with a single lump sum which I’ve broken down below.

Entrance Fee Revenue
The three entering the league would be required to submit entrance fees of $2M each or $6M in total which is about another million ($1.2M).

Numbers Breakdown.

Year One
Annual: $3.75M
Exit: $3.6M
Entrance: $1.2M
Total: $8.55

Year Two
Same at $8.55M

Year three would then go to normal distributions only.

Total Two Year Revenue Haul = $17.1M


This compared to what would be $5M or $6M at most in a given year with the 14 team current configuration.

Even if it was spread over three year period it would still be a total of $20+ million instead of the $7.5M we could expect otherwise.

Also, if you’re looking for a comparison the MAC distributes about $2M per school, so over the next three years MTs financial situation would adjust as follows

$6M in revenue distributions.
$4 million exit fee to C-USA (have to assume they would add five to hold it together to collect even more revenue between the remaining three teams).
Entrance fee to the MAC which I believe is $1M though haven’t confirmed that.

So the three year delta would be to give up about $19 million. Probably enough to buy out both coaches and build an indoor practice facility. I would be interest to see if anyone would be willing to change their vote based on these numbers.

I agree with all of your analysis. Key is having a strong conference commissioner. We don't have that. The departing teams will negotiate the exit fees down at least 50% and Jughead Judy will accept. We may end up with enough money to build a statue of Stock for the HOF.

 

[FranklinRaider315]

I think MT01 is spot on with his analysis.

 

[TRUEBLUE73]

West Virginia to the ACC, Memphis to the B12 and MT to the AAC. Probably will take 2 years but it’s going to happen….

Not unless you start on the facility project right now.

 

[Noogaraider1]

I think MT01 is spot on with his analysis.

Memphis Ninja.

 

[TRUEBLUE73]

I believe it is very risky. There are significant long term consequences. I don't view the decision to go to the MAC in linear fashion. It's a complex decision and there are a myriad of factors that people on message boards aren't taking into consideration about the MAC. Just because they've had a steady membership and using that as a deciding factor is a very naïve. There is a reason why no one has plucked their members. And having our football in the north for perpetuity is just as risky as hanging out in C-USA.

But when it comes to schools at our level there is pretty much nothing as important as cash. Something we are desperately in need of.

Last thing I will say on it is whether M&M can make the right decisions or not or pull the right strings through that process is what it is. Whatever folks opinion of that is what I'm doing is saying here's what's best for MT based on looking at ALL of the factors. Not just one that says well because that league over there doesn't lose schools to better conferences we should go there and be a mediocre there in their mediocre conference. That's not how I think. I want MT to excel even that's never been our own administration's drive. That won't happen in the MAC.

This is my problem. I tend to think that MT will never have fans in the stands. Even if we win. The students have no idea what conference or teams we play each week . I spoke to a ton of students this week. They did not know we were playing Southern Miss. they also had zero idea what conference we were in. As MT has grown in Student Population the age of the student and the fact that most have to work does not lend itself to people showing up for a game. Most students hate the fact that the WiFi at the stadium stinks. We live in a world where the phone comes first like it or not. When and if MM wake up to the fact that catering to the older population only gets you so far then and only then will we fill the stadium. Yes you have to win to do this as well. I am not sure that this will cure the problems though in the case of MT. If we win ten games and the students do not know who we are playing what difference does it make. The Tulsa Navy game in the AAC looked like an MT game. Without a comprehensive business plan it truly does matter what conference we are in. When HS teams have better football training complexes does it matter? This place needs a plan and step by step guide. The current administration talks in the shadows and hides everything. Hard for fans to get behind this type of gamesmanship. MAC, AAC, and CUSA who cares with what we have for leadership.

 

[JohnDavidBlue]

This is spot on. I will say that the old days of having a "product" on the field is no longer relevant. Fans and consumers want an experience, like it or not. We have established that college football is not about the student with millionaire coaches and larger than life tv deals. Gameday should be more business minded too. They need to sell an experience and that takes a different type of person than an X and Os person. They need to hire a person who may not even understand the game but understands PEOPLE.

This is my problem. I tend to think that MT will never have fans in the stands. Even if we win. The students have no idea what conference or teams we play each week . I spoke to a ton of students this week. They did not know we were playing Southern Miss. they also had zero idea what conference we were in. As MT has grown in Student Population the age of the student and the fact that most have to work does not lend itself to people showing up for a game. Most students hate the fact that the WiFi at the stadium stinks. We live in a world where the phone comes first like it or not. When and if MM wake up to the fact that catering to the older population only gets you so far then and only then will we fill the stadium. Yes you have to win to do this as well. I am not sure that this will cure the problems though in the case of MT. If we win ten games and the students do not know who we are playing what difference does it make. The Tulsa Navy game in the AAC looked like an MT game. Without a comprehensive business plan it truly does matter what conference we are in. When HS teams have better football training complexes does it matter? This place needs a plan and step by step guide. The current administration talks in the shadows and hides everything. Hard for fans to get behind this type of gamesmanship. MAC, AAC, and CUSA who cares with what we have for leadership.

 

[FranklinRaider315]

Memphis Ninja.

But my diploma says “Middle Tennessee State University” 😉

 

[MidTennMtneer]

I've said for years the athletic dept should create a class with the Business School and have students create marketing ideas. You have fresh young minds on campus for Pete's sake. Use them.

 

[FranklinRaider315]

This is spot on. I will say that the old days of having a "product" on the field is no longer relevant. Fans and consumers want an experience, like it or not. We have established that college football is not about the student with millionaire coaches and larger than life tv deals. Gameday should be more business minded too. They need to sell an experience and that takes a different type of person than an X and Os person. They need to hire a person who may not even understand the game but understands PEOPLE.

I ate a $6 Blue Raider Brat with peppers and onions yesterday for the first time in 2 years so I’m good if the Lord wants to take me.

 

[Sommy]

I've said for years the athletic dept should create a class with the Business School and have students create marketing ideas. You have fresh young minds on campus for Pete's sake. Use them.

And free ideas. Students would love being involved and we might just make a few fans out of it.

 

[MTFNBY5]

What option? I'm to where I just don't give a . . . .

But I would like to make a couple of points:

For obvious reasons every fan of every high school or college team wishes his school was in the center of the schools with whom they consistently schedule. Hard for schools on the coast or border and especially hard for those schools in South FL to do so because of geography but for those of us not in their circumstance we like to be in the center of the action.
When I became a MT fan we were the most SW school in the 8 team OVC (4 KY, 4 TN) but I realized that ETSU, Morehead, and Murray had it as bad or worse than MTSC. Only when MT first joined The Belt did MT have schools to the N, E, S, and W in our conference. That's the closest we have ever been to centrally located in our conference and because of our geographic location it will probably never happen again.

As for those of you who want to be in a southern conference. I get "southern pride", that athletics is very important in the south, and that some are still fighting the civil war. Some southerners think everything north of the Mason-Dixon line is another world. I get that. But I have found out not to call someone from Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, or Ohio a "Yankee". Most will politely tell you they are Mid-Western and upon a little research you will find the Mid-Western values and culture is not that much different from what you find in the south (not that I don't think most educated and rational people realize that all cultures have many similarities and often the differences are not particularly negative). Wish I could find a decent mid-west battered and fried pork tenderloin sandwich in TN. I might just take in a game in MAC land just to get one.
Found out very quickly as a MT freshman that I didn't know what a bagel was when I made fun of a dorm mate from Long Island for not knowing what a hush puppy it. I'm neither Jewish or Polish but I now have a bagel with cream cheese (no lox) at least once a week for breakfast.
Don't think that I am advocating for the MAC. I've never held it in high regard - just seems to be a %$&-major conference in the Mid-West hiding in the shadow of the BIG10 whose schools accept 2nd tier mediocrity - I can't remember one decent NCAA BkB run or FB win. Just a very nondescript conference. (I must say that while at MT's first D-1 bowl game in Detroit I sat around several Central Michigan fans who were all friendly and had no trouble conversing with this MT fan. Friendly time with CMU fans at the bar before the game also. Good times when MT fans thought we were moving up to relevancy.

But if the option is dropping FB or moving back to FCS level and if going to the MAC is the better option beggars can't be choosers and it appears MT along with WKU are to the begging level.

 

[JohnDavidBlue]

See. I would come to a game just to eat this Brat.

 

[MTLynn]

As for those of you who want to be in a southern conference. I get "southern pride", that athletics is very important in the south, and that some are still fighting the civil war. Some southerners think everything north of the Mason-Dixon line is another world. I get that

I might be mistaken, but I don't think anyone is wrapped up in "southern pride". Hell, the mid-state is overrun with northerners. I'd guess that longtime TN residents are outnumbered 3-1.

Most folks feel that a southern-based conference has more potential, but there have been very successful MAC football teams. In 2012 Northern Illinois played in the Orange Bowl so I don't doubt that MT can have the same success. Just need to find a coach and, like Boise State, Ohio State, and Oklahoma, hire good replacements to keep on rolling.

Some schools struggle with finding good replacements. Bammer churned coaches after Bear Bryant until they hired Saban. Since Osborne retired, Nebraska has been average. And I know that we are all sad to see the struggles of ut-k and vu...

 

[cfly1980]

I'm neither Jewish or Polish but I now have a bagel with cream cheese (no lox) at least once a week for breakfast.

Lox is pretty tasty. Just sayin’.

 

[FranklinRaider315]

Lox is pretty tasty. Just sayin’.

Einstein Bagel makes a good one with all the trimmings. And I’m a West TN redneck. 😂

 

[MT Glenn]

I had to google "lox" and I have to say NO THANKS.

And McPhee deserves the blame.

 

[cfly1980]

I had to google "lox" and I have to say NO THANKS.

And McPhee deserves the blame.

How does McPhee deserve the blame for lox? I mean, for being unable to measure 7 inches, sure … but lox? 😂

 

[MT Glenn]

How does McPhee deserve the blame for lox? I mean, for being unable to measure 7 inches, sure … but lox? 😂

This is explained in the thread "i guess nobody is going to address this"

And McPhee deserves the blame.

 

[SpaceRaider]

Still time to vote, poll doesn't end until a little after 9am wednesday. Also if you've changed your mind you can make that change before the poll closes.

right now only 34 have voted, 27-7 in favor of the MAC option...

 

[MT01]

Still time to vote, poll doesn't end until a little after 9am wednesday. Also if you've changed your mind you can make that change before the poll closes.

right now only 34 have voted, 27-7 in favor of the MAC option...

What's your vote Space?

 

[SpaceRaider]

What's your vote Space?

I did not vote for either option and that's my vote. I'm at the point that there are no good options and given who is in charge of the decisions, I have no faith that decisions that will or have been made will be the 'right' decision, no matter which way things are decided.

Everyone thought CUSA was the right decision when it was made and that turned to crap, basically because of MT 'leadership' complacency, lack of urgency, etc. and CUSA presidents, in a desire for 'diversity' made a leadership choice based on gender, not merit, and never had the courage to correct that and dismiss 'Judy'

But I initiated the poll to see what way fans are going. I have no criticism for either way fans come down. I understand each side. Discussion is a good thing and so is disagreement. In no way is this poll meant to be a stick to beat people over the head with their vote years down the road, when things turn to crap as they inevitably do, no matter which direction our current regime decides to go.

As far as I know, we are the only ones asking what MT fans think about the current situation. Lord knows, our leaders do not care what we think, about this situation, or any other, for that matter.

 

[Brew_Raider]

I did not vote for either option and that's my vote. I'm at the point that there are no good options and given who is in charge of the decisions, I have no faith that decisions that will or have been made will be the 'right' decision, no matter which way things are decided.

Everyone thought CUSA was the right decision when it was made and that turned to crap, basically because of MT 'leadership' complacency, lack of urgency, etc. and CUSA presidents, in a desire for 'diversity' made a leadership choice based on gender, not merit, and never had the courage to correct that and dismiss 'Judy'

But I initiated the poll to see what way fans are going. I have no criticism for either way fans come down. I understand each side. Discussion is a good thing and so is disagreement. In no way is this poll meant to be a stick to beat people over the head with their vote years down the road, when things turn to crap as they inevitably do, no matter which direction our current regime decides to go.

As far as I know, we are the only ones asking what MT fans think about the current situation. Lord knows, our leaders do not care what we think, about this situation, or any other, for that matter.

I feel the same. I am meh on both choices. The answer is probably the opposite of what M&M decide to do.