There were many that were ready to throw our coach under the bus at the end of last season. We'll, they were wrong. Why were they wrong? Well, it takes more than one year to re-build a program. In this instance it has taken 3 years. Most people think 3 years is very reasonable but for some reason we had forgotten how long it took Kermit to build the program before he had success. How did we fall into that trap of instant success, just add water? Why did we expect that our program should be turned around in 2 years? Especially after all of the defections the first year. We are a mighty fickle fan base. We are eating major crow right now. Its time for us to cough up the feathers! lol. This team is fun to watch! Football is a different story though and the drought continues.
What have we learned about our basketball program?
- Thread starter MTsumner92
- Start date
I 100% didn't expect this. But I'm still not satisfied. Finish the year strong and do it again next year. And the next. 20win seasons every year. Minimum NIT every other year and Tournament minimum every 4 years (every single player should play at least one torunament just like football championships) then I'll be happy and eat crow.
And I say that because yes it takes a few years. But we got worse each year. That was my issue. Get better each year and stay there. Don't believe in down years.
Yes I am 100% one of those people that expects perfection every year (and in life much to the chagrin of my wife)
And I say that because yes it takes a few years. But we got worse each year. That was my issue. Get better each year and stay there. Don't believe in down years.
Yes I am 100% one of those people that expects perfection every year (and in life much to the chagrin of my wife)
I’m not expecting perfection but I find it hard to believe many MT MBB fans, (this one included) were pleased with the results of the previous three seasons and justifiably so. I’m sure the players gave it their all but they were still flat out awful and no one in here needs to eat any crow.
Let’s win the division and CUSA first before we anoint the HC, get all giddy and point fingers at those of us who were rightfully displeased.
That said, Saturday was a good win and I cheered for them while watching it. Anytime we can leave Bowling Green KY without getting our brains beat out (Football or Basketball) and even better, leave a winner it’s a good day.
Go Blue! 💙
Let’s win the division and CUSA first before we anoint the HC, get all giddy and point fingers at those of us who were rightfully displeased.
That said, Saturday was a good win and I cheered for them while watching it. Anytime we can leave Bowling Green KY without getting our brains beat out (Football or Basketball) and even better, leave a winner it’s a good day.
Go Blue! 💙
Last edited:
Kermit's teams were never in last place even after taking over a program that was a disaster after having finished at the bottom of the SunBelt. It was a bad year if he went under .500 at all. That was at the worst of times. I don't recall if his teams ever finished under 500, but if they did it was not by much and rare.
Most of the calls for change with Kermit was after 5 years of being a contender most every year yet not securing a championship or a NCAA Tourney bid. Always a bridesmaid but never a bride thing. So yes, there was grumbling from more than a few about years 6 thru year 10. IIRC, it was about years 10 or 11 that Kermit finally brought home the championships and post season success. Matter of fact, I think it was the season MT went to the NIT and beat UT up in Knoxville that really signaled that Kermit and his team had broken through to big success. While that wasn't the big dance, people still knew he had broken through.
That is far different from taking over a highly successful program and bottoming around the bottom of the conference and staying there for 3 years. To me, the worst part of all that was the overall lack of effort and fight during those 3 years. A team can be below .500 and rebuilding but still exhibiting effort and fight. All of that to say that the comparisons to Kermit vs CNM just don't add up.
Plus, this season ain't over yet. MT is in 1st in our division but likely somewhere 2-4 overall in conference, ie loss head to head UNT. Guess we'll find out more about that this weekend vs UAB. Finishing the season in 1st will be another whole story.
Most of the calls for change with Kermit was after 5 years of being a contender most every year yet not securing a championship or a NCAA Tourney bid. Always a bridesmaid but never a bride thing. So yes, there was grumbling from more than a few about years 6 thru year 10. IIRC, it was about years 10 or 11 that Kermit finally brought home the championships and post season success. Matter of fact, I think it was the season MT went to the NIT and beat UT up in Knoxville that really signaled that Kermit and his team had broken through to big success. While that wasn't the big dance, people still knew he had broken through.
That is far different from taking over a highly successful program and bottoming around the bottom of the conference and staying there for 3 years. To me, the worst part of all that was the overall lack of effort and fight during those 3 years. A team can be below .500 and rebuilding but still exhibiting effort and fight. All of that to say that the comparisons to Kermit vs CNM just don't add up.
Plus, this season ain't over yet. MT is in 1st in our division but likely somewhere 2-4 overall in conference, ie loss head to head UNT. Guess we'll find out more about that this weekend vs UAB. Finishing the season in 1st will be another whole story.
I completely disagree with you.
His success in year 4 has nothing to do with the the idea someone should have been fired given the results of his first 3 years. If a coach goes 24-62 and has the 3 year worst stretch in our program’s history, he should be gone.
Now that’s a different argument than saying based on his first 3 years, he cannot be successful in year 4 or later. Based on what I saw in the first 3 years, I didn’t expect much this year & have been pleasantly surprised. But if you are calling fans fickle, then you must think every coach in conference USA is fickle because the coaches picked us to be last in the preseason. So did pretty much every media outlet.
So Nick is here and I am glad he is doing well this year. That doesn’t change the fact I think he should have been fired after last year. And virtually no one (coaches, media or fans) expected this.
Woah I struck some nerves. Hehe. This coach had to start over. After some players quit he basically had to start over. Thats tough. I don't care who you are....thats tough. He walked into a shitty situation. You have to at least admit that.
Heck, I seriously doubt CNM was pleased with the performance of the last 3 years! One should not be happy or content with poor effort and a bunch of losing. If, and that is still a pretty big if, CNM can turn this ship around, then I am ecstatic for him.
I've always maintained that CNM seems like a quality person; one of the good guys, so to speak. So, I really would like him to succeed here. My main doubt about his fitting in here as a successful MT coach is if he is too nice of a guy. You know, does he or will he crack down on the guys with some good discipline when needed?
Whatever the case, I'm glad to admit that I was wrong about where I thought this team would be heading into Feb. I expected them to be at the bottom, but here they are at the top. I didn't expect any real improvement this year, but here they are demonstrating real improvement. Make no mistake, I'm glad to admit to it.
This is what most-to-all of us have been wanting from the get go, signs of improvement. I'm still not ready to say the job is done, or MT has arrived. Nope, there is still a lot of season left to play. There is still a lot of improvement to be made. I am glad that it at least appears that CNM has the team on that path of improving and still possible big success.
Personally, I'll add that this past weekend is the first weekend in several years that I can say I really enjoyed MT basketball this weekend. Not only did MT go 2-0 on a weekend conference road trip, it ended with a win at WKU. That is some good stuff.
Lastly, the team played with effort and, the team played together with a fighting attitude and dare I say some swagger. The team even appeared to have fun playing the game. I want to see more video clips online of the team celebrating in the locker room after another win, again and again.
I've always maintained that CNM seems like a quality person; one of the good guys, so to speak. So, I really would like him to succeed here. My main doubt about his fitting in here as a successful MT coach is if he is too nice of a guy. You know, does he or will he crack down on the guys with some good discipline when needed?
Whatever the case, I'm glad to admit that I was wrong about where I thought this team would be heading into Feb. I expected them to be at the bottom, but here they are at the top. I didn't expect any real improvement this year, but here they are demonstrating real improvement. Make no mistake, I'm glad to admit to it.
This is what most-to-all of us have been wanting from the get go, signs of improvement. I'm still not ready to say the job is done, or MT has arrived. Nope, there is still a lot of season left to play. There is still a lot of improvement to be made. I am glad that it at least appears that CNM has the team on that path of improving and still possible big success.
Personally, I'll add that this past weekend is the first weekend in several years that I can say I really enjoyed MT basketball this weekend. Not only did MT go 2-0 on a weekend conference road trip, it ended with a win at WKU. That is some good stuff.
Lastly, the team played with effort and, the team played together with a fighting attitude and dare I say some swagger. The team even appeared to have fun playing the game. I want to see more video clips online of the team celebrating in the locker room after another win, again and again.
CNM has 750,000 reasons (per year) to be ok with fans that just want to win.
I get your post and I want him and the team to succeed. I need to see a banner up before recognizing "I told you so...."
I get your post and I want him and the team to succeed. I need to see a banner up before recognizing "I told you so...."
I don't have to admit to jack-diddly-do. He walked into a pretty doggone good situation of inheriting a program that had just hit the Top 25, had recent big success in the NCAA Tourney, typically had home games with 6,000 to 7,000 fans and in the games at end of conference play had over 10,000 fans in the arena on national TV. He had an admin that was paying him well for a mid-major considering his previous experience and level of experience, and the same admin that would apparently place little to no expectations or pressure to perform. I imagine it was (or is) likely a dream for a D1 HC to have an admin not constantly breathing down your neck to highly perform and succeed. Additionally, the program still had a lot of positive sports media attention and the attention and recognition from highly rated recruits.
The big drawback or challenge in all of this was basically having to rebuild a depleted if not nearly empty roster. Something to which new coaches have to deal with constantly throughout college basketball. Many of those programs would still expect the new coach to produce a roster, a team, that would still contend for their conference and post season success. Not so at MT. Most wanted to see a competitive generally winning (.500) team that was showing signs of improving for bigger and better things in years 2 and 3. Pretty doggone reasonable in this day and age of D1 college basketball.
I'm not sure if you are wanting people to confess for some perceived wrong for expecting something better than last in the conference and at the bottom of national ratings for all of D1 basketball, or if you are trolling, or just smoking too much wacky weed?
I still find it odd his teams kept getting WORSE with NO improvement until this year. I hope it's all behind us now. If that's how things had to be for him to get us back on track year in and year out, so be it. I'm still happy now.
Walked into a good situation? Are you kidding? He walked into a dumpster fire that KD left behind. Anyone who thought he would have an easy time was not paying attention. Sure, we were not good but for the most part his teams played hard...with the exception of part of last year when there were some issues. Hopefully the team continues to play well and improves but not sure even Coach K could have done much with what Nick inherited.
I don’t think it’s striking nerves as much as combining 2 different arguments should he have been fired after year 3 & do we think he could ever be successful.
I do agree with you about the situation. Kermit said before he left that it was going to be a rebuilding season even if he stayed. Then we had crazy turnover & lost out on recruits. I expected a down year or two, just not 24-62 over 3 years.
I would say we haven't learned anything yet. I will also say that no one is unhappy with what they are seeing and no one should have to apologize for being unhappy with the previous 3 seasons. It is not like he went from 5 to 8 to 11 wins. He did the exact opposite. I know he didn't have a full roster and injuries have plagued his tenure here (even this year), but 5 wins in year 3 is totally unacceptable. I bet you money CNM would completely agree with that. Now moving forward to this year and he has a mostly healthy roster with some depth and we are seeing some positive results. That does not mean we all need to say we were wrong and he has turned it around. If you ask me he has to finish this season strong and next year is the year he proves what he can do. When you think about it we hopefully only lose Sims and Dish. We hopefully will have Coleman-Jones and Jalen Jordan back at full strength. So at a minimum next year we should have the same team as we do this year substituting Jordan and Coleman-Jones where Dish and Sims are now. Along with everyone else having more experience and some new recruits, there is no reason that team should not contend for a conference title. Of course there is always a chance for some to transfer, but the 10 in the rotation now get a good amount of playing time and should be happy for the most part. Finish strong this year and perform as good or better (with what should be a better team) next year and we can talk about eating crow.
Three seasons, ‘67-‘68 to ‘69-‘70 are known as the “Dark Ages” of Memphis St. Basketball under Mo Iba (37-65) and still considered the lowest point in the history of Tiger Basketball. Enter Gene Bartow hired from Valpo who adds two players from Melrose (Larry Finch and Ronnie Robinson) starting them as Sophs. in ‘70-‘71, Juniors in ‘71-‘72, to go 18-8 and 21-7, respectively.
The following summer, a 6’9” pure shooting gazelle from Birmingham, AL by way of Amarillo, TX Junior College mysteriously lands in Memphis and the Tigers make a run through the ‘72-‘73 season losing to Bill Walton and UCLA in St. Louis in the NCAA Final.
My point being, unlike football, in college basketball, 1 or 2 great players can and should turn a program around in a year. Add a third future NBA star and you could end up in the big dance finals in two or three years and not have it vacated.😂😂
The following summer, a 6’9” pure shooting gazelle from Birmingham, AL by way of Amarillo, TX Junior College mysteriously lands in Memphis and the Tigers make a run through the ‘72-‘73 season losing to Bill Walton and UCLA in St. Louis in the NCAA Final.
My point being, unlike football, in college basketball, 1 or 2 great players can and should turn a program around in a year. Add a third future NBA star and you could end up in the big dance finals in two or three years and not have it vacated.😂😂
Last edited:
Spot on. I don't think it is a stretch to say KD had a couple misses with transfers early on (Mike Dean, Steve Thomas). But, he hit the transfer trifecta with Dendy, Marcos, and Massey. That trio changed the trajectory of the program. CNM could be in a similar situation right now. After some early transfer busts, he may have found something in Jefferson. Dude is LEGIT.
Will Jefferson be eligible again next year? All of the rule changes due to covid has made it somewhat more difficult to keep track of who has how many years left.
I think we may lose Jefferson too. He is listed as a grad transfer. Looks like we will have 4 open scholarships to fill.
This is his 6th season of college basketball now as a grad transfer. I can’t imagine him getting a 7th year.
