The Athletic article on in-state recruiting

[RaiderDoug]

Mostly written with a P5 slant, but they do poll a few coaches about Middle Tennessee.

How would you evaluate the Group of 5 schools in the state (Memphis and Middle Tennessee) and how they recruit your school?

Coach 1: Memphis (does the best job) by a long shot. They just do a better job than anyone else of paying attention to what’s going on. They do a spectacular job. Ryan (Silverfield) just doesn’t shoot you a bunch of crud and make stuff up about your kids. He tells you his real assessment, which I appreciate. I want to know what coaches really think.

Coach 2: The only school I don’t get a lot of love from is MTSU. They really don’t come here much. They have some good people on staff, but their process and how they do things is different. That’s on their head coach (Rick Stockstill). He’s a good guy, but he has his own way. They come in late a lot. They take their time. They don’t offer kids early. You have to fit right into the niche of their program to get an offer from their program. It’s not a bad thing, but other schools will jump in with you.

Coach 3: We hear from Memphis way more than we hear from MTSU. I think it’s philosophy, and I’m not in their staff meetings and could be speaking out of turn, but I don’t think MTSU even comes east to Knoxville at all. I think they just recruit Nashville and Murfreesboro because anybody the Power 5s don’t want, MTSU is a great Group of 5 option to stay home. They can simply stay in Nashville, get Memphis, Alabama and Georgia and be fine. I don’t think they’re worried about coming east. We don’t see them.

Coach 4: Well, first I’ll tell you that in the FCS, Scotty Walden at Austin Peay is doing a great job. Just phenomenal. He’s so engaging. … I’ll also say Tennessee Tech’s mega camp was a really good one, and Eddie George is doing a nice job at TSU. I went out to a TSU camp and was really impressed. It wasn’t just a money grab and it wasn’t just a “Show off Eddie George show.” They truly engaged with kids from all schools, getting to know them, doing the right kind of drills. And (defensive coordinator Brandon) Fisher was amazing. He has this way about him, gravitas, but he doesn’t throw it around. … For Group of 5, Memphis is probably the best. They do a great job. They ask the right questions.

Coach 5: I think both could do better, but Memphis is doing better now. Just have to keep it going. I have guys on the team there, and we try to get kids who can open doors for themselves and get them to stay home. A lot of times they want to get away from home. But Memphis has done a pretty good job and, hopefully, it keeps them going in the right direction. Middle, I think they can do a better job recruiting in-state.

 

[FranklinRaider315]

I rest my case.

 

[SpaceRaider]

Nothing in that article surprises me. Just reaffirms what some have been suspecting for a good while. I wonder if Massaro has read that...

 

[BlueSioux]

Interesting comment about Tennessee State, should be fund to see what Eddie does with that program.
No surprising, MTSU comments.

 

[FootballKuato]

I would counter and say that MTSU does a better job of recruiting Georgia than Memphis (23 vs 9) and I would also state that with the facilities that we have, which are the FBS worst, you probably don't want to recruit kids too early and have a kid have too much time to think about (and reverse) his decision. Depending on where these coaches are probably explains why they aren't recruited as hard, it's 3-3.5 hours to Atlanta metro which is approximately the same (or shorter) drive time to Memphis and definitely shorter than Kingsport.

To recruit you need two things to get the best athletes available for MTSU's position (bottom half G5), energy (fans, coaches, team record, etc) and facilities and MTSU struggles with both areas. There are FCS schools that have better facilities than MTSU, Mercer, Western Carolina, Samford, Kennesaw State to name a few in the area.

 

[RaiderDoug]

I would counter and say that MTSU does a better job of recruiting Georgia than Memphis (23 vs 9) and I would also state that with the facilities that we have, which are the FBS worst, you probably don't want to recruit kids too early and have a kid have too much time to think about (and reverse) his decision. Depending on where these coaches are probably explains why they aren't recruited as hard, it's 3-3.5 hours to Atlanta metro which is approximately the same (or shorter) drive time to Memphis and definitely shorter than Kingsport.

To recruit you need two things to get the best athletes available for MTSU's position (bottom half G5), energy (fans, coaches, team record, etc) and facilities and MTSU struggles with both areas. There are FCS schools that have better facilities than MTSU, Mercer, Western Carolina, Samford, Kennesaw State to name a few in the area.

The one thing you can control in recruiting is the amount of effort you put in. This paints a picture of a staff that doesn't put in a lot of effort. Not that we didn't know that before. You can say, "eh, maybe they're focusing on Georgia", but there's no reason to not be working relationships across the state. There's a lot of talent in Tennessee, growing more every year. Putting in effort on the recruiting trail doesn't guarantee you land these kids, but lacking effort in recruiting them pretty much guarantees you won't.

As for the stuff that goes into recruiting (buzz, energy, record) and facilities - Stockstill/Massaro have poisoned this program with years of boring, apathetic, unsuccessful mediocre results. There's really no comparison around college football - no one has droned on and on with such a lack of success for such a long period of time. No wonder we can't get "energy" - we've seen the same movie for going on 16 years now. Pick a book/movie/video/song - consume it 16 times in a row - tell me you are just a pumped for #16 as # 1?

Same thing with facilities - there's no secret to building facilities - sell an entertainment product, raise funds, build facilities. We don't even try, and then blame the "fans" - it's crazy.

 

[sWiley]

I might take some heat here but I understand why we probably don't hit Tennessee as hard as we should and for the most part agree with the approach.

Has MTSU ever really recruited Tennessee that much in the modern era of football? Even before Stockstill? I bet we havn't, and I bet there's a reason.

1. Our facilities suck. It's hard, and in today's environment, to recruit good players when FCS schools have a better set up. We can point fingers and blame whoever, but the fact remains that our facilities suck. Until we get better facilities, we are going to have difficulties recruiting across the board, but especially in the state of Tennessee because we have such a bad reputation here.

2. Our regional and in-state perception is just bad. Is this a self-inflicted problem? Probably. But I ask again, have we ever really recruited Tennessee hard in the modern era of football? With such a bad perception, it probably makes the most sense to focus our efforts in places where we don't have such a bad reputation. Enter Georgia, Florida, Alabama, the Carolinas, and even Arkansas recently with Dearmon now here. Tony even used to hit the West Coast. I feel like the coaches read the room and tried to adapt with the hand they were dealt. Is their situation a product of their own failures? I think it certainly is a factor. Our lack of success on the field, piss poor attendance, and poor investment in facilities is a joke. It is mind boggling to me that, in this day and age, our athletic director has STILL not delivered/secured a football (or basketball even) facilities upgrade. They tried to peddle some BS several years ago now about a $40 million state of the art complex, that honestly looked pretty good, but of course have not heard anything about since. Pathetic, man.

3. Is Tennessee really worth recruiting that hard? I have a hard time believing high school football here stacks up to that of Alabama, Georgia, Florida, and even the Carolinas. I'm not saying that we don't have talent here in Tennessee, but how many kids here sign a D1 scholarship every year? With so many factors already working against the MT coaching staff (Bad perception locally, crappy facilities) does it really make sense to invest a lot of time and effort here?

4. Lastly, it's not like we completely ignore the state. We have signed good players from the state of Tennessee and have the top commit of our class thus far, Kyle Lowe QB, currently pledged to be a Blue Raider. The staff still recruits Tennessee but as documented above, they're pretty picky and selective about where they invest their time and effort. And when you look at the big picture I can honestly see why the staff isn't tearing up the roads in Tennessee. You can't be everywhere recruiting everyone.


I'm not taking the staffs side here, just trying to give some perspective on why I believe things are the way they are. If we had a better perception locally, better facilities, weren't viewed as a suitcase bachelors degree college, and some success on the gridiron then it definitely would make more sense for the staff to recruit locally. But that's just not the case and it seems things are getting worse with each passing year and this administration does not appear to have any solutions.

 

[SpaceRaider]

Donnelly hit Georgia pretty hard and had good success, but he did well in TN and reeled in midstate and east TN recruits as well. At one time, a huge number of HS coaches were MT alums.

Back when they had the TN-KY all stars game alternating between the two state, MT signees seemed to always have an impact. After Holcomb's senior high school season that group beat up the KY all stars and most if not all the points scored by TN were by MT recruits.

 

[FranklinRaider315]

Watching Franklin at Riverdale on MyTV30 Friday Night Rivalries.
I was just thinking and wondering if the MT staff is represented there. Holcomb’s son is the QB for Riverdale. Several P5 commits playing in this game.

 

[FranklinRaider315]

This is just too good not to share. The announcers just said Riverdale students were having a “Hawaiian Shirt Night”
😂😂

I wonder if Massaro is there????

 

[RaiderDoug]

I might take some heat here but I understand why we probably don't hit Tennessee as hard as we should and for the most part agree with the approach.

Has MTSU ever really recruited Tennessee that much in the modern era of football? Even before Stockstill? I bet we havn't, and I bet there's a reason.

1. Our facilities suck. It's hard, and in today's environment, to recruit good players when FCS schools have a better set up. We can point fingers and blame whoever, but the fact remains that our facilities suck. Until we get better facilities, we are going to have difficulties recruiting across the board, but especially in the state of Tennessee because we have such a bad reputation here.

2. Our regional and in-state perception is just bad. Is this a self-inflicted problem? Probably. But I ask again, have we ever really recruited Tennessee hard in the modern era of football? With such a bad perception, it probably makes the most sense to focus our efforts in places where we don't have such a bad reputation. Enter Georgia, Florida, Alabama, the Carolinas, and even Arkansas recently with Dearmon now here. Tony even used to hit the West Coast. I feel like the coaches read the room and tried to adapt with the hand they were dealt. Is their situation a product of their own failures? I think it certainly is a factor. Our lack of success on the field, piss poor attendance, and poor investment in facilities is a joke. It is mind boggling to me that, in this day and age, our athletic director has STILL not delivered/secured a football (or basketball even) facilities upgrade. They tried to peddle some BS several years ago now about a $40 million state of the art complex, that honestly looked pretty good, but of course have not heard anything about since. Pathetic, man.

3. Is Tennessee really worth recruiting that hard? I have a hard time believing high school football here stacks up to that of Alabama, Georgia, Florida, and even the Carolinas. I'm not saying that we don't have talent here in Tennessee, but how many kids here sign a D1 scholarship every year? With so many factors already working against the MT coaching staff (Bad perception locally, crappy facilities) does it really make sense to invest a lot of time and effort here?

4. Lastly, it's not like we completely ignore the state. We have signed good players from the state of Tennessee and have the top commit of our class thus far, Kyle Lowe QB, currently pledged to be a Blue Raider. The staff still recruits Tennessee but as documented above, they're pretty picky and selective about where they invest their time and effort. And when you look at the big picture I can honestly see why the staff isn't tearing up the roads in Tennessee. You can't be everywhere recruiting everyone.


I'm not taking the staffs side here, just trying to give some perspective on why I believe things are the way they are. If we had a better perception locally, better facilities, weren't viewed as a suitcase bachelors degree college, and some success on the gridiron then it definitely would make more sense for the staff to recruit locally. But that's just not the case and it seems things are getting worse with each passing year and this administration does not appear to have any solutions.

What I took from your post is basically "we should recruit out of state because they don't know how sucky this place is".

I don't think MT has the reputation issues that you think it does. I constantly see MT stuff here all over East Tennessee. I meet plenty of people who went to MT, or who's kids went to MT, etc. They seem to be a pretty solid matriculation destination for kids across the state. I haven't really detected any like "MTSU? Gross" attitudes. I don't think any local high school coaches would have any problem sending kids to MTSU if you gave them a reason to.

As far as facilities, that's a direct function of the health of the program and how you sell the product. You got to give people a reason to hand over their money. But we've been over that many times.

Also, while this article polled instate coaches - there's no real evidence that this staff is putting in any real effort out of state either. It's not like "oh, we don't bother with Tennessee because we're getting big timers from Florida/Georgia". The classes aren't ranked very highly relative to peers, and the proof of talent evidence on Saturdays - we certainly don't appear to deploy supremely talented rosters on gamedays.

 

[SpaceRaider]

we certainly don't appear to deploy supremely talented rosters on gamedays.

I'm not sure at anytime under the current regime that has ever been the case, even when the talent level has been higher, the team has struggled to win against the better teams in our conference.

 

[mtfblue]

this roster is

What I took from your post is basically "we should recruit out of state because they don't know how sucky this place is".

I don't think MT has the reputation issues that you think it does. I constantly see MT stuff here all over East Tennessee. I meet plenty of people who went to MT, or who's kids went to MT, etc. They seem to be a pretty solid matriculation destination for kids across the state. I haven't really detected any like "MTSU? Gross" attitudes. I don't think any local high school coaches would have any problem sending kids to MTSU if you gave them a reason to.

As far as facilities, that's a direct function of the health of the program and how you sell the product. You got to give people a reason to hand over their money. But we've been over that many times.

Also, while this article polled instate coaches - there's no real evidence that this staff is putting in any real effort out of state either. It's not like "oh, we don't bother with Tennessee because we're getting big timers from Florida/Georgia". The classes aren't ranked very highly relative to peers, and the proof of talent evidence on Saturdays - we certainly don't appear to deploy supremely talented rosters on gameda

this roster is TN heavy, you have 7 kids from metro ATL with 3l being transfers, total of GA kids at 16. So this theory they not recruiting TN is a joke, what's a joke is there out of state recruiting and getting kids with P5 offers too come here and ball. Andy did that, Diaz and Mangus as well. Since 2010 recruiting has gone down hill and when Bibbe retired in 2017 it really excellarated to below avg

 

[sWiley]

What I took from your post is basically "we should recruit out of state because they don't know how sucky this place is".

Pretty much. I think MT is not even viewed in the same realm as Memphis and Tennessee, especially when it comes to sports. I bet the average person would think we play in a "lower division" compared to UT-Knoxville, for example. MTSU is a glorified JUCO, "bachelors degree only," suitcase college.

That's how I believe most people in the state see it. I could be wrong, but I don't think I'm that far off base.

And as another poster said....is the roster really that devoid of Tennessee players? When I scroll through it I see lots of TN players on the roster? And 2 of the 4 current commits for the 2022 class are from the state of TN, and very highly respected and ranked players, too.

 

[RaiderDoug]

And as another poster said....is the roster really that devoid of Tennessee players? When I scroll through it I see lots of TN players on the roster? And 2 of the 4 current commits for the 2022 class are from the state of TN, and very highly respected and ranked players, too.

The problem isn't that they're not taking any Tennessee kids. It's that they're not competing for the ones that seem to make a difference.

2021 - Didn't sign a top 50 instate player
2020 - 2 of the top 50
2019 - None of the top 50
2018 - 2 of top 50
2017 - 3 of top 50.

So, out of a possible 250 players - we landed 7 of them. And a lot of these kids are finding homes at programs that are out playing us - Appy State has taken a bunch, Marshall shows up a lot, Arkansas State shows up a lot, UAB, etc.

Granted, the two guys we have for 2022 are top 50 guys.

But I think if you look at the #'s, and results on the field, and the comments from the coaches in that article - it paints a picture of a program that's simply not making the grade on the recruiting trail.