FOOTBALL Stockstill FIRED

[MidTennMtneer]

I get it. I do. My 8yr old had one coach on his Peewee team he absolutely had to get a gift for. There's 5 of them, but this one, as my son said, believed in him. Talked him up. And I witnessed myself the difference he made in my son. So I get it.

A lot of these kids, Stock was their only D1 offer. He believed in them. And I respect their admiration for him.

But, there comes a time when the good of the program outweighs the loyalty to the coach. It appeared CM realized that during the press conference yesterday. It was just a few years too late. Maybe it was pressure from McP, the Board, donors, who knows. But when there are under 10k in the stands for Veteran's and senior day, when there is an overall and conference losing record the last 5yrs with 3 losing seasons, it's time to move on and put MT first, put that diploma on the wall first, and not the coach.

 

[subkyle]

Alex Dale is nearly 30, the first class he recruited would be 35/36 now and he had seniors in 2006 who are 40. I haven't seen any of those guys attacking fans(I'm not on twitter), but have seem some lamenting the decision on Facebook.

I'm not sure the average person, even the college football super fan, can fully understand the player/coach relationship.

I mostly understand what you’re saying. I ran Track for Dean Hayes, and I give him credit for helping me get my degree and become the man I am today. I still shed tears knowing he’s gone. That being said business is business. It’s on you if you can’t realize this needed to happen. There are ex players that are openly bashing the entire fan base and trying to belittle. That’s classless and inexcusable

 

[RaiderDoug]

A lot of these kids, Stock was their only D1 offer. He believed in them. And I respect their admiration for him.

This is kind of where I can't get on board with all the Stock "thanks for your service stuff" with Stock.

The fact is, he brought in people who were not capable of succeeding at this level either on the player or coaching side. And he kept them long after their incompetence was clear to see.

He literally sabotaged the program in order to set up his petty coaching kingdom and surround himself with his yes men and loyal servants.

If he would have been more ruthless with his staff, and more competitive on the recruiting trail, a much different book would have been written.

 

[blueraiderJT]

mASSaro said it best. "We need a coach with a personality and who will engage with the commmunity and fanbase." We had the opposite of that for 18 years and it eroded the program. I wish we could find a guy like a Rich Rod. I like Scotty Walden because he's young and has done a lot with little resources. We will see but I hope we get a proven HC, not another first time HC who was an OC or TE coach.

I just hope we get good OL and DL coaches. How much more watchable would all of this be with real position coaches in those spots?

 

[zreed]

I mostly understand what you’re saying. I ran Track for Dean Hayes, and I give him credit for helping me get my degree and become the man I am today. I still shed tears knowing he’s gone. That being said business is business. It’s on you if you can’t realize this needed to happen. There are ex players that are openly bashing the entire fan base and trying to belittle. That’s classless and inexcusable

And I'm not excusing anyone's behavior, I was mostly just responding to what someone said about the former players not being men yet, when statistically speaking more than half of his former players are 30 or older.

I have witnessed, through some of the players I'm friends with, who are as knowledgeable and passionate about football as anyone I know, be completely unable to let go of the soft spot for Stock and some of these guys played just a year or two for him.

 

[Brew_Raider]

I’ve never seen a response like this for a coach that was fired for failure to perform. Never at the FBS level.

FBS is win first, cut throat, money driven football. That’s the game the rest of FBS is playing. It’s 100% clear that personal relationships matter more than success at MT. That’s fine, but we are not playing the same game the rest of FBS is playing.

You should not be in FBS if your success metric for a coach is “can you average beating 4 or more bottom feeder teams in the worst conference in FBS?”

Are we really trying to be a FBS program or not? If we don’t expect/demand more than what has been demonstrated by our athletic department, then we might as well drop back to FCS.

 

[mtfblue]

great point.

I worked in college athletics for 18 months or so in various capacities (10 years ago) and I am still impacted by the coaches I worked with. And I didn’t play

I don't get the argument he worked with his hands ties and so on. euke #1 as employee, you are free to leave your job for something more to your liking. So they kill that noise about how he was basically mistreated. He wasn't handcuffed and tied up like a slave to coach here. It was something keeping him here, oh it was the money 💰.

 

[JohnDavidBlue]

Z - I never said that all his players weren't men. Stop being so literal. And noone ever said they were attacking fan bases.

My suspicion of maturity in that statement was when I read continual responses on X that spoke to the detriment of the success of mtsu because "their" guy was relieved of his duties.

It's weird but I'm glad it's over.

 

[MidTennMtneer]

I don't get the argument he worked with his hands ties and so on. euke #1 as employee, you are free to leave your job for something more to your liking. So they kill that noise about how he was basically mistreated. He wasn't handcuffed and tied up like a slave to coach here. It was something keeping him here, oh it was the money 💰.

Yeah, I don't get that either. Several threads on X about that. How he did so much with so little. I don't see it that way.

Do facilities help, does $ help, a good assistant pool? Yup. But it isn't the answer. Florida, Minnesota, Nebraska, all have amazing facilities and $ yet they all had losing records. LSU has some of the nicest in the SEC and they didn't even win the West. Other schools have so so facilities. I'm not saying ours are good. We all know the things that need fixed.

But coaching is #1. Period. Bar none end of discussion. LSU facilities and A&M $ would not have made Stock a championship coach.

And that isn't an excuse anymore. It's not like we have to sell recruits or coaches on a blueprint or drawing. Dirt is moving. It is under construction. It's real.

CM said all the right things yesterday. So facilities are checked, let's see if they can come through with the rest.

I personally would rather have fired 3 coaches in 10yrs all with losing records, an admin that shows they are trying, than have one coach at .500 for 10yrs.

 

[SpaceRaider]

a reaction, first part:

 

[RaiderDoug]

Yeah, I don't get that either. Several threads on X about that. How he did so much with so little. I don't see it that way.

Do facilities help, does $ help, a good assistant pool? Yup. But it isn't the answer. Florida, Minnesota, Nebraska, all have amazing facilities and $ yet they all had losing records. LSU has some of the nicest in the SEC and they didn't even win the West. Other schools have so so facilities. I'm not saying ours are good. We all know the things that need fixed.

But coaching is #1. Period. Bar none end of discussion. LSU facilities and A&M $ would not have made Stock a championship coach.

And that isn't an excuse anymore. It's not like we have to sell recruits or coaches on a blueprint or drawing. Dirt is moving. It is under construction. It's real.

CM said all the right things yesterday. So facilities are checked, let's see if they can come through with the rest.

I personally would rather have fired 3 coaches in 10yrs all with losing records, an admin that shows they are trying, than have one coach at .500 for 10yrs.

The whole facilities argument always galls me.

This isn't a chicken or the egg scenario. There's a very clear step 1, then step 2....

You win, put out a good product, and have a good personality - fans/students/alumni/media will become invested in your program. You will bring in money. You will then have greater resources. It will snowball.

It's not, stamp feet and wait for people to give you money, and then maybe you win.

And again, this hasn't been a poor program relative to its peers over the years. We've been at or near the top of both the Sunbelt and CUSA in budget pretty much since we went FBS. I do think we've settled back to middle of the pack right now. But still, money hasn't been the problem here that's been holding this football program back.

 

[BRaiderDave]

The whole facilities argument always galls me.

This isn't a chicken or the egg scenario. There's a very clear step 1, then step 2....

You win, put out a good product, and have a good personality - fans/students/alumni/media will become invested in your program. You will bring in money. You will then have greater resources. It will snowball.

It's not, stamp feet and wait for people to give you money, and then maybe you win.

And again, this hasn't been a poor program relative to its peers over the years. We've been at or near the top of both the Sunbelt and CUSA in budget pretty much since we went FBS. I do think we've settled back to middle of the pack right now. But still, money hasn't been the problem here that's been holding this football program back.

His downfall was self inflicted and started with the squandering of the NO Bowl momentum after the USM win.

 

[MidTennMtneer]

a reaction, first part:

They bring up a good point though. What is the NIL situation of our peers? We know Reed stayed at WKU due to NIL. How much are Troy or Jax players making? App St or JMU? Boise?

So much of this is confidential. It'd be interesting in knowing real numbers. Not specific people, but just per school.

 

[ewglenn]

I mostly understand what you’re saying. I ran Track for Dean Hayes, and I give him credit for helping me get my degree and become the man I am today. I still shed tears knowing he’s gone. That being said business is business. It’s on you if you can’t realize this needed to happen. There are ex players that are openly bashing the entire fan base and trying to belittle. That’s classless and inexcusable

I’m not surprised with how the SHSU game ended.

 

[mtfblue]

They bring up a good point though. What is the NIL situation of our peers? We know Reed stayed at WKU due to NIL. How much are Troy or Jax players making? App St or JMU? Boise?

So much of this is confidential. It'd be interesting in knowing real numbers. Not specific people, but just per school.

Most of the peers have small if any NIL. So we are on par, most NIL is usually a one off

 

[Brew_Raider]

They bring up a good point though. What is the NIL situation of our peers? We know Reed stayed at WKU due to NIL. How much are Troy or Jax players making? App St or JMU? Boise?

So much of this is confidential. I'd be interesting in knowing real numbers. Not specific people, but just per school.

EKU has a better NIL than us.

Perfect example: Former Coalfield QB Parker McKinney (who we didn’t offer) is a star and getting NFL scout attention for the Colonels.

EKU advertised the NIL deal for buying his gear online and have billboards of him advertising products around Richmond. I saw him this past week as I traveled through there for Thanksgiving.

I know he is getting at least in the thousands from clothing sales and the endorsements…at EKU.

I think most our peers have small NIL like us, but we are behind even some FCS schools and I don’t think we have leveraged / adapted as fast as other schools.

 

[mtfblue]

EKU has a better NIL than us.

Perfect example: Former Coalfield QB Parker McKinney (who we didn’t offer) is a star and getting NFL scout attention for the Colonels.

EKU advertised the NIL deal for buying his gear online and have billboards of him advertising products around Richmond. I saw him this past week as I traveled through there for Thanksgiving.

I know he is getting at least in the thousands from clothing sales and the endorsements…at EKU.

I think most our peers have small NIL like us, but we are behind even some FCS schools and I don’t think we have leveraged / adapted as fast as other schools.

That's my QB. The have the Maroon Fund, not all athletes are part of it. I'm lucky that my son is. Yes, Parker played at 1a coalfield. He actually got a pretty good deal to come back this year. They matched what some FBS SEC teams offered him to leave. I won't put the numbers out but it was pretty good for a FCS school.

 

[zreed]

His downfall was self inflicted and started with the squandering of the NO Bowl momentum after the USM win.

I'd argue it started with the 4th quarter collapse against Troy in 2006.

7-6(6-1) co-champions ran off the field by CMU becomes 9-4(7-0) SBC champions, easy win against Rice in New Orleans. That alone could have changed the entire trajectory of the program. Maybe another win or two in '07 and/or '08, maybe he never has the Troy complex, if we beat them in '09 that would have been 11-2(8-0) another conference title, maybe even sneaking into the postseason top 25, perhaps even far better offers for Stock than ECU and Memphis. Maybe we beat La Tech to Sonny Dykes.

 

[RaiderDoug]

I think most our peers have small NIL like us, but we are behind even some FCS schools and I don’t think we have leveraged / adapted as fast as other schools.

We really need someone to start a collective type of fund.

I'm not going to go online and order a t-shirt with some 18 year old kids name on it.

But, if you had me pledge 25 bucks a month, and sent me a sticker, koozie, keychain - or any # of those corporate fundraiser type things that you see at trade shows that cost pennies, screen print some cheap t-shirts from hobby lobby and sell 'em - i'd sign up.

That fund could be worked with the coaches and AD to target portal guys, high school guys, or keep our own dudes from leaving.

An MTSU version of this:

Join The Volunteer Club

You are the Tennessee legacy, you are Tennessee’s competitive edge. Together, let’s build an elite NIL experience for our athletes and fans. About The Volunteer Club Welcome to the new...

thevolunteerclub.com

 

[MidTennMtneer]

We really need someone to start a collective type of fund.

I'm not going to go online and order a t-shirt with some 18 year old kids name on it.

But, if you had me pledge 25 bucks a month, and sent me a sticker, koozie, keychain - or any # of those corporate fundraiser type things that you see at trade shows that cost pennies, screen print some cheap t-shirts from hobby lobby and sell 'em - i'd sign up.

That fund could be worked with the coaches and AD to target portal guys, high school guys, or keep our own dudes from leaving.

An MTSU version of this:

Join The Volunteer Club

You are the Tennessee legacy, you are Tennessee’s competitive edge. Together, let’s build an elite NIL experience for our athletes and fans. About The Volunteer Club Welcome to the new...

thevolunteerclub.com

That is exactly my thought. I'm actually writing an email now to Lee to discuss this. The Vol Club is very similar to Country Roads Trust. Same thing. Memberships, gear giveaways, autographed ball gives, sideline access gives, etc. Works hand in hand with the AD and MAC (their BRAA).

 

[crposton]

That is exactly MT thought. I'm actually writing an email now to Lee to discuss this. The Vol Club is very similar to Country Roads Trust. Same thing. Memberships, gear giveaways, autographed ball gives, sideline access gives, etc. Works hand in hand with the AD and MAC (their BRAA).

How involved can the AD/BRAA be involved in the creation of this? I would love to be involved, but would be better for people who lives in the area to be main contacts.

 

[MT01]

We really need someone to start a collective type of fund.

I'm not going to go online and order a t-shirt with some 18 year old kids name on it.

But, if you had me pledge 25 bucks a month, and sent me a sticker, koozie, keychain - or any # of those corporate fundraiser type things that you see at trade shows that cost pennies, screen print some cheap t-shirts from hobby lobby and sell 'em - i'd sign up.

That fund could be worked with the coaches and AD to target portal guys, high school guys, or keep our own dudes from leaving.

An MTSU version of this:

Join The Volunteer Club

You are the Tennessee legacy, you are Tennessee’s competitive edge. Together, let’s build an elite NIL experience for our athletes and fans. About The Volunteer Club Welcome to the new...

thevolunteerclub.com

So, I signed up for that before the UGA game. I know there are some here that can't see past their own nose and scoff at it, but again undergrad from UTK. And I will tell you that even though Tenn got absolutely steam rolled (it was like watching a season opening MT game), I had some of the most fun I've had at a game in a long time. The atmosphere was better than when Peyton was there. Neyland broke the all time decibel record for a college game that dated back to 1992. Band was hype. Dolly was there.

I've since cancelled the Vol Club because I just signed up for the tailgate, but for $25 here's what I got. Basically exactly what you said. A couple of koozies, a T-shirt, some stickers and the whole reason I signed up for it... Access to the tailgate (along with a plus 1). All you can eat buffet style. BBQ wings, sandwiches, sides, deserts and all you can drink beer, liquors, etc. Wasn't a full bar but close enough. Opened at 10:30. My guest and I ate and drank from 10:30 to 3:00 for what amounted to $12.50 a person. Not a bad day.

 

[RaiderDoug]

So, I signed up for that before the UGA game. I know there are some here that can't see past their own nose and scoff at it, but again undergrad from UTK. And I will tell you that even though Tenn got absolutely steam rolled (it was like watching a season opening MT game), I had some of the most fun I've had at a game in a long time. The atmosphere was better than when Peyton was there. Neyland broke the all time decibel record for a college game that dated back to 1992. Band was hype. Dolly was there.

I've since cancelled the Vol Club because I just signed up for the tailgate, but for $25 here's what I got. Basically exactly what you said. A couple of koozies, a T-shirt, some stickers and the whole reason I signed up for it... Access to the tailgate (along with a plus 1). All you can eat buffet style. BBQ wings, sandwiches, sides, deserts and all you can drink beer, liquors, etc. Wasn't a full bar but close enough. Opened at 10:30. My guest and I ate and drank from 10:30 to 3:00 for what amounted to $12.50 a person. Not a bad day.

It's definitely doable. The question is, do we have someone(s) willing to do it.

 

[RaiderDoug]

How involved can the AD/BRAA be involved in the creation of this? I would love to be involved, but would be better for people who lives in the area to be main contacts.

I do know that the UT coaches/admins and the Spyre sports guys do work hand in hand.

NIL is so murky, I'm not sure anyone knows the rules or boundaries (or if there are any).

 

[MidTennMtneer]

ADs can't create a trust/collective, but can work hand in hand with them. Coaches can promote them too.

What makes collectives great is their ability to market differently. Join BRAA and get parking passes, discounts, etc. Join the TrueBlue Trust and get entered for a giveaway of two field passes. A one on one dinner with coach. Etc. Can be much more incentive laden. Some collectives even purchase boxes or suites and then can use those as giveaways. The school makes money on the sale then the Trust makes it again for the players.

Not to mention the alcohol aspect. Country Roads works with a WV brewery and sells Country Roads Lager. A really, really good beer that part of the proceeds go directly to the Trust. Have a bourbon coming too. ADs and BRAA and the like can't do that. With our fermentation program and relationships we could easily have a TrueBlue Ale.

I don't have the business acumen (or $ funds) to start it but absolutely would help get it rolling.

 

[DisgruntledAlum]

Case in point… this entire thread. Yikes. And they wonder why people look at them as a joke. This attitude towards the few fans we do have doesn’t do any favors!

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Well, a winning football team lacked from my college experience and as an alumnus.

 

[DisgruntledAlum]

I had to Google what “bih” meant. 😂😂

He did his part to help it get "that bih to 0"

 

[SpaceRaider]

Chip at the 1:09:10 mark

 

[blueraiderJT]

Why is it that the scrubs are the ones barking? Murphy, Dale and now this dude. Why are they barking at us? mASSaro pulled the trigger. We aren't sad but none of this is our fault. Give us something to show up for and we will.

 

[magaraider]

should feel sad for Stockstill, but he got paid a sh1tload of money while he was at MT. Happy is not the word I would use to describe how I feel about his firing. RELIEVED is more like it.

 

[DisgruntledAlum]

should feel sad for Stockstill, but he got paid a sh1tload of money while he was at MT. Happy is not the word I would use to describe how I feel about his firing. RELIEVED is more like it.

I don't at all. Honestly, he's probably glad. We all saw his face this season.

How do we know he didn't want out, but hated to leave that buyout on the table?

 

[SpaceRaider]

you want to throw up?

 

[DisgruntledAlum]

you want to throw up?

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Has it been addressed yet? I just turned it on few minutes ago.

 

[sWiley]

I don't at all. Honestly, he's probably glad. We all saw his face this season.

How do we know he didn't want out, but hated to leave that buyout on the table?

In Massaro's presser he said Rick still wants to coach, and still wanted to coach here. I believe it.

I suspect if Stock went to Massaro mid-season and said "Hey, I am going to replace Polly, West, and Mallory. The results are not good enough and we need to shake things up..."...he very well might still have a job.

 

[SpaceRaider]

Has it been addressed yet? I just turned it on few minutes ago.

I'm just tired of these stockstill fan boys bashing the fans.

 

[DisgruntledAlum]

In Massaro's presser he said Rick still wants to coach, and still wanted to coach here. I believe it.

I suspect if Stock went to Massaro mid-season and said "Hey, I am going to replace Polly, West, and Mallory. The results are not good enough and we need to shake things up..."...he very well might still have a job.

I expected something like that vs Stock going. I really didn't think it would happen because of the buyout.

 

[Hop45]

Another convo on Twitter has them complaining about getting 2 tennis facilities before a football facility. Numb nuts fail to realize one was a city project and the other was paid for with private donations.......wait for it......after several championships! A quality product will go a long way to getting butts back in the seats and money into the program for nice things.

 

[MidTennMtneer]

I hate to say it but I'm about to go off. So Stock was a nice guy, well respected, etc. Ok. Good. But two things come to mind.

1) his job is to win games, win championships, win bowl games. He didn't do that. Period. I don't care how nice you are. If you don't do the job you are being paid for regardless of not having resources (which I still haven't figured out), I don't care, I'm going to call for your firing.

2) it ticks me off that these former players are putting their coach above the school. Most have a diploma that says Middle Tennessee State University. Sure it was helped to be paid for by Stock through a scholarship, but his name isn't on the diploma. Loyalty should be to your Alma Mater, not a person who happened to work for them.

I just need to go to bed before I cause a crapstorm on X.

 

[DisgruntledAlum]

Another convo on Twitter has them complaining about getting 2 tennis facilities before a football facility. Numb nuts fail to realize one was a city project and the other was paid for with private donations.......wait for it......after several championships! A quality product will go a long way to getting butts back in the seats and money into the program for nice things.

The tennis coach went out and raised the funds himself for it. What I read someplace at least.

 

[FranklinRaider315]

I just ignore them. They are loyal to their coach, It is what it is.