Name

[MT01]

It appears that athletics has quietly been reintroducing MTXX on all references after the first. I first started noticing this last year and as we go into the new academic year MTXX now litters the website and in the writing. MT isn't being used at all. Middle Tennessee - written out - is no longer used beyond the first reference. All subsequent references now use the "su" acronym.

 

[RaidRRick]

It appears that athletics has quietly been reintroducing MTXX on all references after the first. I first started noticing this last year and as we go into the new academic year MTXX now litters the website and in the writing. MT isn't being used at all. Middle Tennessee - written out - is no longer used beyond the first reference. All subsequent references now use the "su" acronym.

I've been noticing that too. Disappointing!

 

[MidTennMtneer]

It's actually planned. Lee stated they were focusing on eliminating use of Mid Tenn, Middle Tenn, MT, and plain Middle in media usage and focusing on MTSU. Especially on TV score tickers and at visiting stadiums.

Athletics and academics should feel as one, not separate as they look now. The flying WV is on everything WVU (even the 50+ hospitals around the state they run). We should be the same with the MT everywhere.

I 100% agree with a straight branding approach. MTSU should not be that approach though.

 

[Sommy]

We so badly need a quality marketing firm. Whomever is coming up with these ideas is pathetic. It just shows how little league we are.

We have a MAJOR marketing problem and it's quite comical how bad we are in that area. Whether it's our logo, name, our positioning in the market, etc. it's embarassing how they continue to miss the mark.

 

[MTFAN61]

If that's the plan which I'm sure it is will we soon see "MTSU" as the center court logo at the Murphy Center? "MTSU" on the football helmets & as the 50 yard logo at Floyd Stadium?
Maybe that's what is needed so protesters could show up pregame, & finally force the administration to acknowledge everyone hates their "plan".

 

[FranklinRaider315]

I really don’t care. My piece of MBA paper says , “Middle Tennessee State University.”

They can call it whatever they want, I got mine. 😂😂

 

[MT01]

It's actually planned. Lee stated they were focusing on eliminating use of Mid Tenn, Middle Tenn, MT, and plain Middle in media usage and focusing on MTSU. Especially on TV score tickers and at visiting stadiums.

Athletics and academics should feel as one, not separate as they look now. The flying WV is on everything WVU (even the 50+ hospitals around the state they run). We should be the same with the MT everywhere.

I 100% agree with a straight branding approach. MTSU should not be that approach though.

This is a quasi-right decision based on a really bad macro decision thanks to an incompetent and compromised president. You can’t have split branding.

Our branding is horrific. Anyone in the Jones business school could tell you that. But what this does is likely cements that we will never change the name.

Someone once asked me if the name change is such a big deal then why hasn’t it worked for North Texas. Well, the results are now finally in. UNT wasn’t the one that got left behind in the Sun Belt (the first time). UNT wasn’t the one that got left behind in C-USA. Really that’s all you need to know. And even when I did the study 20 years ago UNT was already ahead of us in many areas. It just didn’t look like it yet. When I worked so hard for this, being the U of MT wasn’t about an overnight switch being flipped. It was a movement to position MT for the future - for the next generation thereby enhancing the degree value of the previous generations. Which is exactly what’s happened at UNT and why they are in a better position than us, have better facilities, have higher academic rankings, raise more money, and have a much larger endowment.

But those who fought me/it couldn’t see that. They lacked vision. They lacked understanding about how not every decision, every change is about making an immediate impact.

This is McPhee’s legacy and failure. Instead of taking Dr. Walkers vision and making it his own and adding to it he’s basically kept us in place for two decades. Dr. McPhee you have failed us - all of those who are at this school now and those who came before.

 

[MidTennMtneer]

This is a quasi-right decision based on a really bad macro decision thanks to an incompetent and compromised president. You can’t have split branding.

Our branding is horrific. Anyone in the Jones business school could tell you that. But what this does is likely cements that we will never change the name.

Someone once asked me if the name change is such a big deal then why hasn’t it worked for North Texas. Well, the results are now finally in. UNT wasn’t the one that got left behind in the Sun Belt (the first time). UNT wasn’t the one that got left behind in C-USA. Really that’s all you need to know. And even when I did the study 20 years ago UNT was already ahead of us in many areas. It just didn’t look like it yet. When I worked so hard for this, being the U of MT wasn’t about an overnight switch being flipped. It was a movement to position MT for the future - for the next generation thereby enhancing the degree value of the previous generations. Which is exactly what’s happened at UNT and why they are in a better position than us, have better facilities, have higher academic rankings, raise more money, and have a much larger endowment.

But those who fought me/it couldn’t see that. They lacked vision. They lacked understanding about how not every decision, every change is about making an immediate impact.

This is McPhee’s legacy and failure. Instead of taking Dr. Walkers vision and making it his own and adding to it he’s basically kept us in place for two decades. Dr. McPhee you have failed us - all of those who are at this school now and those who came before.

I can't like this post enough.

I really thought things were changing when they unveiled the new wordmark in a press conference a few years ago. Updated ALL signs on campus to place the focus on Middle Tennessee and less on State University. The main entrances were updated to the new logo.

The academic buildings had the same logo on their sidewalk signs while athletics had the block MT. They unveiled True Blue with the full name below it.

With that focus on Middle Tennessee I thought we were headed in the right direction. The CUSA contract at the time even specified that we must be called Middle Tennessee on broadcasts.

Now we are going back to MTSU and might as well have kept the 70s slant sign that was at the corner of Greenland/MT Blvd.

I just don't get it.

 

[MTLynn]

This is McPhee’s legacy and failure. Instead of taking Dr. Walkers vision and making it his own and adding to it he’s basically kept us in place for two decades. Dr. McPhee you have failed us - all of those who are at this school now and those who came before.

I wouldn't expect anything less from a school that is run by a collection of skid marks.

 

[ewglenn]

I honestly don’t get the hate for MTSU. I personally don’t mind it. We definitely need cohesiveness with our branding efforts. I’m okay with it.

 

[JohnDavidBlue]

This goes back to the Delphi board days.

It’s not what the people want but the bozos running the show are going to do what they want to do or TOLD to do.

Just another reason to continue distancing myself. They really don’t get it.

 

[MT01]

I honestly don’t get the hate for MTSU. I personally don’t mind it. We definitely need cohesiveness with our branding efforts. I’m okay with it.

It’s not about hate. It’s about doing what’s best for the university. The fact you consider yourself a hardcore diehard and don’t get this baffles me. But I’m over trying to explain it to people. It’s a waste of my time. Significant time I have already wasted over two+ decades.

 

[SpaceRaider]

I don't consider it a failure for McPhee. He actually succeeded. It was intentional on his part.

He can't depart Cope fast enough for me. Whether it's retirement, resignation, or feet first. He can burn in hell for all I care.

 

[MTsumner92]

Why do i feel McPhee was strategically put at MT in order to hold us back?

 

[MTLynn]

Why do i feel McPhee was strategically put at MT in order to hold us back?

Turn MTSU into tsu-Murfreesboro

 

[ewglenn]

It’s not about hate. It’s about doing what’s best for the university. The fact you consider yourself a hardcore diehard and don’t get this baffles me. But I’m over trying to explain it to people. It’s a waste of my time. Significant time I have already wasted over two+ decades.

I would like to have the name changed to UMT but I don’t think it has a major impact like some of you think. We would still be a directional state school that is second tier to the big state school. There are plenty other schools dealing with the same issues.

 

[arg3b]

I would like to have the name changed to UMT but I don’t think it has a major impact like some of you think. We would still be a directional state school that is second tier to the big state school. There are plenty other schools dealing with the same issues.

MT01 did very extensive research of this years ago and presented the results (most likely they are still buried in this board). It’s been gone over quite a few times since, which is why he probably doesn’t want to go over it again. UNT was the peer school referenced as they were once North Texas State University. The argument for a shortened name to UMT is very solid and more impactful than you’d realize. I’m very much in favor for a name change to UMT

However, I don’t believe North Texas made the jump to CUSA and now the AAC because of their name. I think that’s more because of their market in DFW and actual dedication to athletics with major sport championships in both the SBC and CUSA

Edited because Memphis just came to mind. Memphis, us, and ETSU were all established at the same time as West Tenn/Middle Tenn/East Tenn Normal School. Lots of political/external factors involved in the name changes over the years, but do you think Memphis would rather be “West Tennessee State University” today considering branding?

 

[Sommy]

North Texas gets ZERO attention in DFW. Like less than high school sports. Pro and high school are the main interests. Even TCU, who went to the friggin championship only got marginal media coverage.

NTX and MT are very similar in my opinion, but they must have much better leadership than us.

 

[MT01]

Of course “one” decision isn’t going to cause a school from our perch to jump to the SEC or become an Ivy League contender academically. No one has ever suggested that but people like to use these negative ploys based on personal preference rather than strategic reasons. In other words what’s best for the individual or what they prefer (because that’s what my diploma says like Franklinraider stated) vs. what’s actually in the best interest of the institution.

If it wasn’t going to matter why did North Texas do it? Why did West Tennessee State do it? Or Northwest Missouri State? I guess they all did it for shits and giggles.

A university is measured more by how its perceived than its actual output or performance. Whether we all think it’s right or wrong the perception of a college or university is probably one of the single most important factors in how it’s measured against and compared against its peers.

If anyone thinks North Texas has outperformed us academically, has more resources including a much larger endowment, or has been preferred over us for conference affiliation because of its media market then you’re a victim of rationalizing our failures. Which I suppose makes us feel better and numbs the pain. It’s so difficult to prove a negative but if they were still NTSU and had just accepted their lot in life and carried on status quo would they be a Tier 1 research institution? I have a hard time believing they would but we can only speculate. As Agr points out, the research I did was quite telling. And it even acknowledges that a name change alone isn’t going cure all ills, but after doing it I was forced to acknowledge that for a school like ours it could and would have significant benefits. If nothing else it would signify a leadership vision to excel to take the next step not just exist.

And as a refresher for those who are new or don’t remember, I was agnostic to the name change previously and wasn’t convinced it mattered. Until I did it. In fact, that was the whole reason I did it. And the fact that every other TBR state school and UT have fought against it provided further evidence what I learned would indeed have an impact to benefit our university. Then McPhee started calling me and inviting me to his palace to meet on it. Which is where I copped onto the fact he was trying to placate me in an effort to bury it.

The timing isn’t lost on of me of McPhee’s arrival. I believe that McPhee was put in place almost solely for this reason. To kill any chance of it happening. Many didn’t like our decision to move up and many more didn’t want to see us grow and succeed and the name change would have further differentiated us from other fledgling TBR schools. So that was first order of business to put an end to that and then the powers that be have kept him propped up because they learned they could control him and by virtue the University. The name change and dousing the University’s growth proved he was and is just a puppet getting wealthy at the expense of his own student and alumni base. Cheers.

 

[FranklinRaider315]

Of course “one” decision isn’t going to cause a school from our perch to jump to the SEC or become an Ivy League contender academically. No one has ever suggested that but people like to use these negative ploys based on personal preference rather than strategic reasons. In other words what’s best for the individual or what they prefer (because that’s what my diploma says like Franklinraider stated) vs. what’s actually in the best interest of the institution.

If it wasn’t going to matter why did North Texas do it? Why did West Tennessee State do it? Or Northwest Missouri State? I guess they all did it for shits and giggles.

A university is measured more by how its perceived than its actual output or performance. Whether we all think it’s right or wrong the perception of a college or university is probably one of the single most important factors in how it’s measured against and compared against its peers.

If anyone thinks North Texas has outperformed us academically, has more resources including a much larger endowment, or has been preferred over us for conference affiliation because of its media market then you’re a victim of rationalizing our failures. Which I suppose makes us feel better and numbs the pain. It’s so difficult to prove a negative but if they were still NTSU and had just accepted their lot in life and carried on status quo would they be a Tier 1 research institution? I have a hard time believing they would but we can only speculate. As Agr points out, the research I did was quite telling. And it even acknowledges that a name change alone isn’t going cure all ills, but after doing it I was forced to acknowledge that for a school like ours it could and would have significant benefits. If nothing else it would signify a leadership vision to excel to take the next step not just exist.

And as a refresher for those who are new or don’t remember, I was agnostic to the name change previously and wasn’t convinced it mattered. Until I did it. In fact, that was the whole reason I did it. And the fact that every other TBR state school and UT have fought against it provided further evidence what I learned would indeed have an impact to benefit our university. Then McPhee started calling me and inviting me to his palace to meet on it. Which is where I copped onto the fact he was trying to placate me in an effort to bury it.

The timing isn’t lost on of me of McPhee’s arrival. I believe that McPhee was put in place almost solely for this reason. To kill any chance of it happening. Many didn’t like our decision to move up and many more didn’t want to see us grow and succeed and the name change would have further differentiated us from other fledgling TBR schools. So that was first order of business to put an end to that and then the powers that be have kept him propped up because they learned they could control him and by virtue the University. The name change and dousing the University’s growth proved he was and is just a puppet getting wealthy at the expense of his own student and alumni base. Cheers.

Since you threw my username out there I’ll jump in and add my two cents. First, regarding Memphis State and the name change. There was a very large contingent of heavy hitters (some alums, some not) at FedEx(Fred Smith), Harrah’s (Mike Rose, Frank Flaut legacy Holiday Inns) AutoZone, Plough Inc. etc.) who helped push the Memphis name change. Got lots of local and state political support. MSU was a longtime rival of Louisville and Cincy for decades and they were used as examples. The guy (President) who pushed the name change (V. Lane Rawlins) ironically ended up at North Texas as well so he had a proven track record.
As for the conspiracy theory about McPhee, I have no idea. Never met him until I graduated from MTSU. The other two top MTSU folks who migrated over from Memphis, the late R. Eugene Smith and the late John Cothern I had known since I was an 18 year old freshman football player at Memphis. Cothern was even the Tiger Football Equipment Mgr. while attending law school and later became the Tigers’ NCAA Compliance Officer. Dr. Smith controlled the purse strings at Memphis State for decades and was a powerful force with the TBOR. My older cousin and teammate babysat his kids.
I cannot believe Dr. Smith would do anything to impede the growth of his alma mater…..Especially while serving as interim President.
In a nutshell, I don’t think MTSU has cultivated the kind of business and political clout that was leveraged in Memphis in the early 90’s to get the name change done.

 

[ewglenn]

Of course “one” decision isn’t going to cause a school from our perch to jump to the SEC or become an Ivy League contender academically. No one has ever suggested that but people like to use these negative ploys based on personal preference rather than strategic reasons. In other words what’s best for the individual or what they prefer (because that’s what my diploma says like Franklinraider stated) vs. what’s actually in the best interest of the institution.

If it wasn’t going to matter why did North Texas do it? Why did West Tennessee State do it? Or Northwest Missouri State? I guess they all did it for shits and giggles.

A university is measured more by how its perceived than its actual output or performance. Whether we all think it’s right or wrong the perception of a college or university is probably one of the single most important factors in how it’s measured against and compared against its peers.

If anyone thinks North Texas has outperformed us academically, has more resources including a much larger endowment, or has been preferred over us for conference affiliation because of its media market then you’re a victim of rationalizing our failures. Which I suppose makes us feel better and numbs the pain. It’s so difficult to prove a negative but if they were still NTSU and had just accepted their lot in life and carried on status quo would they be a Tier 1 research institution? I have a hard time believing they would but we can only speculate. As Agr points out, the research I did was quite telling. And it even acknowledges that a name change alone isn’t going cure all ills, but after doing it I was forced to acknowledge that for a school like ours it could and would have significant benefits. If nothing else it would signify a leadership vision to excel to take the next step not just exist.

And as a refresher for those who are new or don’t remember, I was agnostic to the name change previously and wasn’t convinced it mattered. Until I did it. In fact, that was the whole reason I did it. And the fact that every other TBR state school and UT have fought against it provided further evidence what I learned would indeed have an impact to benefit our university. Then McPhee started calling me and inviting me to his palace to meet on it. Which is where I copped onto the fact he was trying to placate me in an effort to bury it.

The timing isn’t lost on of me of McPhee’s arrival. I believe that McPhee was put in place almost solely for this reason. To kill any chance of it happening. Many didn’t like our decision to move up and many more didn’t want to see us grow and succeed and the name change would have further differentiated us from other fledgling TBR schools. So that was first order of business to put an end to that and then the powers that be have kept him propped up because they learned they could control him and by virtue the University. The name change and dousing the University’s growth proved he was and is just a puppet getting wealthy at the expense of his own student and alumni base. Cheers.

Do you still have your paper on it? I’m curious to read the entire thing. Research is an opinion with research backing it. I have a thesis coming up and I would be interested in a counter argument.

 

[AustinLewis]

Do you still have your paper on it? I’m curious to read the entire thing. Research is an opinion with research backing it. I have a thesis coming up and I would be interested in a counter argument.

I'd be interested in reading it too.

Maybe it was MT01 or maybe it was one of our other posters, but someone I think someone on here wrote a paper on the effect of a name change on state universities.

FWIW, IMO MT needs to become UMT. Drop the state. It's unnecessary.

 

[ewglenn]

I'd be interested in reading it too.

Maybe it was MT01 or maybe it was one of our other posters, but someone I think someone on here wrote a paper on the effect of a name change on state universities.

FWIW, IMO MT needs to become UMT. Drop the state. It's unnecessary.

Just so everyone understands my position, I am also for a name change I just don’t think it’s as significant of an impact as a lot here believe it is.

 

[MidTennMtneer]

I 1000% believe with someone with a greater vision in charge, we would be bigger. The nail in the coffin for me was the law school. McP made his case but when it came down to putting up a fight, it didn't happen. When it came down to political prowess and using the clout you have, it didn't happen. We have zero clout. I don't think McP was told "keep the school small" but I do think he has a more academic vision, doesn't, can't, or won't, see the true value in athletics, and is content being on an island and not pushing issues. In other words his personality fit what those in power wanted. TBOR did not want MT turning in to a Tier 1 school, or having medical, law, etc. Now we have our own board but it is filled with those who are happy with the status quo. They don't want major change and cause a ruckus to lose what power they have, and again, McP fits that mold.

Perception creates its own value. There's a reason Lousiana-Lafayette markets themselves just as Lousiana. Why Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University uses Virginia Tech. Why it was such a huge deal even in my area when our two colleges, Bluefield State College and Concord College became Universities. If we hired a new President and they came from Fairmont State Normal School, we would roll eyes and fuss. What about Fairmont State University? Same school and name changed less than 10yrs ago.

We've changed our name before to change our perception and grow in to more. More than a normal school, a teacher's college, and more than a state college. We are now more than a four letter acronym.

 

[RaiderDoug]

There's nothing quantifiable here. It's simply a perception issue.

To me, "University of XYZ" sounds more prestigious than "XYZ State U" (if it's not an actual state).

For whatever reason, the first one gives me warm fuzzies, and the other my brain associates with late night informercial diploma mills. I have no evidence or data to support any of it, but I know I'm not the only one who feels this way.

It's a simple difference between a positive and negative immediate reaction. If you're not trying your best to paint whatever you're doing in the most positive light possible, you're doing it wrong.

Guess which one our "leadership" chose?

 

[MT01]

Do you still have your paper on it? I’m curious to read the entire thing. Research is an opinion with research backing it. I have a thesis coming up and I would be interested in a counter argument.

Any bias I had was in the direction of not changing it. As I said I was agnostic. I was an undergrad UT alum who decided to come back for grad school. I really didn’t care, but I was working in the athletics Dept when the decision was made to use Middle Tennessee in everything. And I had friends advocating for it. So I decided to do the research for a marketing class. But I bit off more than could chew and didn’t get it done in time for the course. It took far more work to do the outreach and interviews with the other schools. So I completed after I graduated.

I no longer have it - especially the empirical data collected. But I wrote a couple of articles based off of the research that were published to this site. No idea if they still exist. Imagine through server updates and what not they’ve probably been lost or purged.

 

[MT01]

There's nothing quantifiable here. It's simply a perception issue.

To me, "University of XYZ" sounds more prestigious than "XYZ State U" (if it's not an actual state).

For whatever reason, the first one gives me warm fuzzies, and the other my brain associates with late night informercial diploma mills. I have no evidence or data to support any of it, but I know I'm not the only one who feels this way.

It's a simple difference between a positive and negative immediate reaction. If you're not trying your best to paint whatever you're doing in the most positive light possible, you're doing it wrong.

Guess which one our "leadership" chose?

Perception is a clear variable. No question, but what I discovered wasn't just that. Both North Texas and Memphis pointed to using the rebrand to not only enhance perception but drive fundraising and reposition the university's respective vision/mission. My look into Memphis was more about dropping State but of course they used to also have a similar name to us when they were called West Tennessee Normal (then Teachers) School.

At the end of the day one of the arguments I was able to make is what drove early decisions to drop "normal school" or "teachers college" from our respective names and then eventually in Memphis' case Memphis State College. These decision reflect their progression, growth, etc., as they took on more areas of instruction and the school's progressed to where the name they had no longer reflected who they were. We probably reached that place some 20 or 30 years after the school became MTSU from MTSC. Dr. Walker recognized that, which is why he began the pitch to make the change to reposition the University for not only what it had become but where it was going.

Both North Texas and Truman State (aka NE Missouri St) showed me not only why they did it but impacts to fundraising and endowment in the five to 10 years after vs the five to 10 years prior.

Truman was very forthcoming about this and in fact has maintained information about their decision on their website since they've had one.


The University’s former directional name of Northeast Missouri State University (the school’s name from Aug. 13, 1972 – 30 June 30, 1996) projected an image of its former self as a regional multipurpose institution rather than reflecting its evolving role in higher education as one of the finest public liberal arts and sciences universities.

The perceptions inherent with the regional name caused problems with student and faculty recruitment and with the University’s efforts to garner grants and other funds from the private sector. As a regional university, Northeast shared similar names with its sister regional institutions throughout the state. The instances of Northeast Missouri State University being confused with Northwest Missouri State University and other regional institutions were numerous among the media, the legislature, prospective students, educators, and the general public. -Truman website

That bolded part. Sound familiar? In fact I did just that in post #19 myself when I called them NW Missouri St .Ultimately that was the #1 reason I flipped on this issue. Not because of the money but because of the confusion with us TSU and ETSU. Especially TSU which I saw play out routinely as an employee of the athletic department. I would show these examples in the media to McPhee and he just ignored it.

 

[ewglenn]

So why not MTU?

 

[FranklinRaider315]

I like the ring of UMT but that change probably wouldn’t go over well in Knoxville, Martin, Chattanooga and now Pulaski.

 

[AustinLewis]

Just so everyone understands my position, I am also for a name change I just don’t think it’s as significant of an impact as a lot here believe it is.

Fair.

A name change while keeping McPhee will render it the positive effects of name change null & void.

McPhee's tenure has some bright spots, but there have been points where his weaknesses have been exposed. He's a good ACADEMIC, but MT desperately needs a guy who can be GREAT at outreach.

 

[DisgruntledAlum]

I was a student when the name change was a hot topic. If I remember correctly, didn't TSU also chime in saying it would damage their brand, something along the lines of MT being the man or sole public university in Middle Tennessee.

 

[DisgruntledAlum]

https://www.dnj.com/story/sports/co...randing-needed-if-mtsu-changed-name/77177830/

 

[MTLynn]

The student body voted and approved the name change to the University of Middle Tennessee when I was a Freshman (1988–1989). The name change and the acquisition of a law school should have happened decades ago.

 

[DisgruntledAlum]

The student body voted and approved the name change to the University of Middle Tennessee when I was a Freshman (1988–1989). The name change and the acquisition of a law school should have happened decades ago.

Absolutely

 

[SpaceRaider]

https://www.dnj.com/story/sports/co...randing-needed-if-mtsu-changed-name/77177830/

After that article or there about, the university plastered the four letter acronym all over the new faux brick crosswalks and the new pylons or posts that were erected at major entrances to the campus and IIRC, the press box tower got tagged as well with 'state university' as well. So making it just a little more costly if the university ever went the correct route of changing the name.

 

[SpaceRaider]

If I remember correctly, didn't TSU also chime in saying it would damage their brand, something along the lines of MT being the man or sole public university in Middle Tennessee.

I'm pretty sure that is correct. The Geier Stipulation that also played a part in the first attempt at obtaining a law school back in the 80s IIRC. That attempt ended after tsu screamed bloody murder about the foundation's offer to purchase the Nashville Law school outright. The state government ended up being forced to appropriate/give money to tsu to negotiate that purchase which ended up not happening, but tsu ended pocketing the state funds anyway.

 

[ewglenn]