BASKETBALL Middle Tennessee(23-5, 15-1) vs WKU(22-7, 14-2)(CBSSN), 7PM, Thursday, March 1, 2018
- Thread starter SpaceRaider
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The joint was just about full! Cry babies just have to complain about something. Scoreboard speaks for itself.
In fairness too these guys. It's probably tough for them to be objective while they're thinking about their goat that's waiting for them when they get back home.
Anybody else tired today?
That was a fun fun game to be a part of. Sims looked incredible outside of some small things that will just continue to get better. Giddy hitting clutch 3s to send a statement and what about Johnson's halftime shot? King doing his thing. Walters was solid on the inside.
Took great pictures and had a great time. I think we are in the dance. There is little that needs to be said.
GBR
That was a fun fun game to be a part of. Sims looked incredible outside of some small things that will just continue to get better. Giddy hitting clutch 3s to send a statement and what about Johnson's halftime shot? King doing his thing. Walters was solid on the inside.
Took great pictures and had a great time. I think we are in the dance. There is little that needs to be said.
GBR
How refreshing is it to have a team that doesn't s*** their pants in big moments??
excerpt from a post on the Hilltopper Haven(cleaned up the typos and punctuation to make it readable):
For anyone that wasn't there last night I'm not sure how to give a full picture of what that game was like. The quick foul on Dwight completely took him out of his game and he was pretty much non-existent. That can't happen against MTSU because Justin doesn't play enough defense to contain them in the post. Walters and King absolutely dominated us in the post all night. They also got away with a lot of grabbing in the post on the defensive end. That took away whatever offensive advantage we might have had in the post.
I also can't say enough about the environment. I've probably watched us play in the Murphy Center 10-12 times and their crowds always disappoint, but they brought it last night. It was a genuine top 25 team in a genuine top 25 atmosphere, and that bothered some of our guys. I don't know if Darius has a mental block against them or what, but both of the games against middle have been just about his worst two of the year. Tay and Josh were virtually non-existent as well, and I think a lot can be attributed to the environment.
Middle is the real deal. They're absolutely better than us, and it will take a monster effort to beat them in Frisco. That said, the first 18 minutes of this game we were right there with them. The last two minutes of the first half is when we lost it. If we can somehow package a 40 minute effort like we have had against several teams his year and do that against MTSU, I have no doubts we can beat them.....
For anyone that wasn't there last night I'm not sure how to give a full picture of what that game was like. The quick foul on Dwight completely took him out of his game and he was pretty much non-existent. That can't happen against MTSU because Justin doesn't play enough defense to contain them in the post. Walters and King absolutely dominated us in the post all night. They also got away with a lot of grabbing in the post on the defensive end. That took away whatever offensive advantage we might have had in the post.
I also can't say enough about the environment. I've probably watched us play in the Murphy Center 10-12 times and their crowds always disappoint, but they brought it last night. It was a genuine top 25 team in a genuine top 25 atmosphere, and that bothered some of our guys. I don't know if Darius has a mental block against them or what, but both of the games against middle have been just about his worst two of the year. Tay and Josh were virtually non-existent as well, and I think a lot can be attributed to the environment.
Middle is the real deal. They're absolutely better than us, and it will take a monster effort to beat them in Frisco. That said, the first 18 minutes of this game we were right there with them. The last two minutes of the first half is when we lost it. If we can somehow package a 40 minute effort like we have had against several teams his year and do that against MTSU, I have no doubts we can beat them.....
another thread (this from their 24/7 board) and a couple of posts from one of their better, more knowledgeable fans:
[climbs on high horse]
People who are freaking out about last night 1) do not understand what an advantage that environment gave MTSU (ask ODU about their trip to Diddle) and 2) are not giving MTSU nearly enough credit.
[decides to stay on high horse]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let me add this.
Based on KenPom rating, MTSU would be favored at home against ANY TEAM IN AMERICA not in the top 14. Xavier at MTSU would be a push. Now, give them THAT environment. I don't know what that environment gives them over the "standard home margin," but some. Two points? Three? Let's say three.
Now, the list is the top seven teams in America. Your "push" games would be North Carolina and Kansas at MTSU. Gonzaga might be a slight favorite. Clearly, UVA, Nova, Duke, Cincy, Purdue and Michigan State would be slight faves. That's the list.
Give MTSU their due. They are really good, and give them a record-setting crowd? Well, you saw what that looks like.
[climbs on high horse]
People who are freaking out about last night 1) do not understand what an advantage that environment gave MTSU (ask ODU about their trip to Diddle) and 2) are not giving MTSU nearly enough credit.
[decides to stay on high horse]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let me add this.
Based on KenPom rating, MTSU would be favored at home against ANY TEAM IN AMERICA not in the top 14. Xavier at MTSU would be a push. Now, give them THAT environment. I don't know what that environment gives them over the "standard home margin," but some. Two points? Three? Let's say three.
Now, the list is the top seven teams in America. Your "push" games would be North Carolina and Kansas at MTSU. Gonzaga might be a slight favorite. Clearly, UVA, Nova, Duke, Cincy, Purdue and Michigan State would be slight faves. That's the list.
Give MTSU their due. They are really good, and give them a record-setting crowd? Well, you saw what that looks like.
this breakdown of the game last night on the wku 24/7 board:
PACE 66. Right where MTSU wants it.
EFFICIENCY
WKU 97.5
MTSU 125
Congrats to MTSU. They have been the best team in CUSA all year and stuck a bold period at the end of that statement that last night. They have multiple titles over the last few years, they have a system that works, and they set their attendance record last night. Much respect, even if I hate losing to them...especially when I make the drive down to the Boro. When we got settled into the arena, I told my family sitting with me, "I'm not sure ANYONE not named MTSU can win in here tonight." It would have taken a near-perfect game and we were far from perfect.
So, you don't need too much deep analysis to know what happened if you were there. Johnson/Coleby combined for zero free throws. So...yeah, it was physical. That won't happen in Frisco, I can guarantee that. Beyond that, only one stat pops: MTSU shot 60% on 2s and 45% on 3s for 62.5% eFG%. It was their best shooting night and best O-EFF night all season. It was our worst D-EFF night all season. This is one of those where I simply cannot hear you if you try to talk about our offensive struggles. This wasn't even close to MTSU's best defensive game. They have TEN other games that rate out higher. We beat them at the line, like we always do. We lost the glass, but it was not a crushing defeat. Turnovers were even. If you gave me those stats going into last night, I would have taken it with a lot of hope to win. The game came down to who could make more shots. Man, I'll take the Tops in a shooting match every time. But, MTSU was on fire from everywhere. Our zone was pilloried all night as MTSU got loads of layups against it. And, they were hot from 3 to boot. Add that to the environment and we had no chance.
To relieve you of stress, don't sweat our struggles offensive struggles against their zone. The Radiers were focused. We put up a better efficiency number against them last night than Auburn (who beat MTSU) or Murray and nearly equaled Marshall's number that beat MTSU. The Raiders lost at home to Belmont on Nov 16 at home, and since then are 10-0 at home. I don't know the list of teams that could honestly expect to win in there last night, but it's incredibly short.
All that said, our defense was not nearly ready and that is the last turn of the screw for this team. JJ/Coleby are not going to shoot ZERO free throws if we face MTSU on a neutral court in Frisco. Simply won't happen. MTSU is unlikely to shoot THAT well in Frisco. What's left for this fine Topper team is to find the "championship defense" gear for a very long stretch against MTSU. It's the only way. We aren't going to magically solve their 1-3-1. No one does! The Raiders are #26 NATIONALLY in D-EFF and #1 in CUSA by a country mile. Not only is their zone amongst the best in the country, they give up NOTHING in transition. We will have to manufacture points and pile up FT advantage. And, we can do that. What will give us a chance to beat MTSU is 40 minutes of defense like we've never played it before. I'm not sure the answer is our version of the 1-3-1 defense. I don't know the answer...and that's what I mean. We have ONE MORE turn of the dial to unlock this thing.
Stanz was VERY confident in his team going into last night. We got smashed. Let's see what he can teach this team about bounce-back at UAB and then find ONE MORE level before Frisco.
IDENTITY STATS
1. SHOOTING. 50% on 2s, 20% from 3 (2-10). Not great, but against an elite defense in that environment? It should have given us a chance.
2. FREE THROWS. We doubled up MTSU at the line on takes and makes. +10 takes, +7 makes. Death, taxes, Tops getting to the line.
3. TURNOVERS. Even. Both took good care of the ball (10 TOs each, 15% TOrate).
Again, nothing stands out other than this: we were not dominated in every phase, we simply got shot into oblivion.
UAB now is a big task. They rocked Marshall last night, we got squashed in a huge game, and UAB is at home on senior night. I don't like the way that shapes up. But, for tourney purposes, we will be the 2 or the 3 seed. Either way, we get a bye and it's likely we have to go through both ODU and MTSU if the chalk holds.
Dust yourselves off Tops. Game tomorrow, and we have to find one more gear. We're still the most dangerous offense in the league and there are no home games in Frisco, Texas.
PACE 66. Right where MTSU wants it.
EFFICIENCY
WKU 97.5
MTSU 125
Congrats to MTSU. They have been the best team in CUSA all year and stuck a bold period at the end of that statement that last night. They have multiple titles over the last few years, they have a system that works, and they set their attendance record last night. Much respect, even if I hate losing to them...especially when I make the drive down to the Boro. When we got settled into the arena, I told my family sitting with me, "I'm not sure ANYONE not named MTSU can win in here tonight." It would have taken a near-perfect game and we were far from perfect.
So, you don't need too much deep analysis to know what happened if you were there. Johnson/Coleby combined for zero free throws. So...yeah, it was physical. That won't happen in Frisco, I can guarantee that. Beyond that, only one stat pops: MTSU shot 60% on 2s and 45% on 3s for 62.5% eFG%. It was their best shooting night and best O-EFF night all season. It was our worst D-EFF night all season. This is one of those where I simply cannot hear you if you try to talk about our offensive struggles. This wasn't even close to MTSU's best defensive game. They have TEN other games that rate out higher. We beat them at the line, like we always do. We lost the glass, but it was not a crushing defeat. Turnovers were even. If you gave me those stats going into last night, I would have taken it with a lot of hope to win. The game came down to who could make more shots. Man, I'll take the Tops in a shooting match every time. But, MTSU was on fire from everywhere. Our zone was pilloried all night as MTSU got loads of layups against it. And, they were hot from 3 to boot. Add that to the environment and we had no chance.
To relieve you of stress, don't sweat our struggles offensive struggles against their zone. The Radiers were focused. We put up a better efficiency number against them last night than Auburn (who beat MTSU) or Murray and nearly equaled Marshall's number that beat MTSU. The Raiders lost at home to Belmont on Nov 16 at home, and since then are 10-0 at home. I don't know the list of teams that could honestly expect to win in there last night, but it's incredibly short.
All that said, our defense was not nearly ready and that is the last turn of the screw for this team. JJ/Coleby are not going to shoot ZERO free throws if we face MTSU on a neutral court in Frisco. Simply won't happen. MTSU is unlikely to shoot THAT well in Frisco. What's left for this fine Topper team is to find the "championship defense" gear for a very long stretch against MTSU. It's the only way. We aren't going to magically solve their 1-3-1. No one does! The Raiders are #26 NATIONALLY in D-EFF and #1 in CUSA by a country mile. Not only is their zone amongst the best in the country, they give up NOTHING in transition. We will have to manufacture points and pile up FT advantage. And, we can do that. What will give us a chance to beat MTSU is 40 minutes of defense like we've never played it before. I'm not sure the answer is our version of the 1-3-1 defense. I don't know the answer...and that's what I mean. We have ONE MORE turn of the dial to unlock this thing.
Stanz was VERY confident in his team going into last night. We got smashed. Let's see what he can teach this team about bounce-back at UAB and then find ONE MORE level before Frisco.
IDENTITY STATS
1. SHOOTING. 50% on 2s, 20% from 3 (2-10). Not great, but against an elite defense in that environment? It should have given us a chance.
2. FREE THROWS. We doubled up MTSU at the line on takes and makes. +10 takes, +7 makes. Death, taxes, Tops getting to the line.
3. TURNOVERS. Even. Both took good care of the ball (10 TOs each, 15% TOrate).
Again, nothing stands out other than this: we were not dominated in every phase, we simply got shot into oblivion.
UAB now is a big task. They rocked Marshall last night, we got squashed in a huge game, and UAB is at home on senior night. I don't like the way that shapes up. But, for tourney purposes, we will be the 2 or the 3 seed. Either way, we get a bye and it's likely we have to go through both ODU and MTSU if the chalk holds.
Dust yourselves off Tops. Game tomorrow, and we have to find one more gear. We're still the most dangerous offense in the league and there are no home games in Frisco, Texas.
I still can't believe what I saw from Sims last night. Where has he been? He is for real at the PG position. Last night is how good our team can be when Walters doesn't get in foul trouble. The refs let em play last night.
A lot of teams can hang with us for the first 15 minutes, but then fatigue sets in. Our depth has been the key to our success. We can go 8, 9, 10 deep with not much of a dropoff. We are fresh at the end of the game and other teams are sucking wind because they could only play their best 7.
Regular rotation 10 deep. Thing is we can rotate several bodies at multiple guard positions. It makes us seem even deeper.
Dixon
Potts
Johnson
King
Walters
Sims
Simpson
Simmons
Hawthorne
Gamble
Can’t forget Shelton-Scmitt.
He may have not shown a lot to me, but Davis is high on him.
Dixon
Potts
Johnson
King
Walters
Sims
Simpson
Simmons
Hawthorne
Gamble
Can’t forget Shelton-Scmitt.
He may have not shown a lot to me, but Davis is high on him.
Not sure but I forget what exactly transpired at one point in the game, but Nick King slapped hand with one of them after a King play, so I thought they were cool or maybe at that point they had accepted the inevitability of a wku beatdown...
wku missed their shot then Johnson banks the three at the buzzer - it was a total kick in the nuts! LOVED IT.
I was wondering the same thing. Those seats have names on the back of them and they belonged to TDK Construction. I appreciate their financial donation, but no way I show up in red, or give those seats to someone who is wearing red.
One of those times that the announced attendance really does appear to be accurate. Seems some of the rivals resentment and bitterness in their tweet.
Absolutely. I think that has been a sort of almost unspoken key factor for MT for at least a few seasons. Depth is key. I suspect Kermit's demanding physical practices are a part of it as well. When it comes crunch time down the stretch, Kermit's teams stand strong and fight.
It also seems a lot of teams give their best to try to keep up with MT for most of the half, but those last few minutes of the half MT's depth and toughness just wears down opponents. Also credit Kermit for intentionally instilling in his team that expectation that they are tougher and believe they can and will find a way to finish.
A couple of thoughts on WKU supporter comments:
Almost surprisingly, there is some accuracy. Of course with a rival we're bound to see some things different, but generally they were pretty much on target. It usually seems programs with a rich tradition and history of much success are usually fairly reasonable in their assessments after a loss. I think that success brings confidence and security generally speaking. When a program knows they are generally good, it's fairly obvious they just got beat by a better team that night. It's the programs without much tradition or success that gets unreasonable and somewhat irrational in their assessments after losses. Some of these WKU fans seem to reasonably take the loss in stride. Murray St is another program that comes to mind that usually has a pretty mature and developed attitude postgame.
By the way, anyone else seeing the irony of WKU dominating in football while MT is dominating in basketball. Hasn't that role been reversed in years past?
Almost surprisingly, there is some accuracy. Of course with a rival we're bound to see some things different, but generally they were pretty much on target. It usually seems programs with a rich tradition and history of much success are usually fairly reasonable in their assessments after a loss. I think that success brings confidence and security generally speaking. When a program knows they are generally good, it's fairly obvious they just got beat by a better team that night. It's the programs without much tradition or success that gets unreasonable and somewhat irrational in their assessments after losses. Some of these WKU fans seem to reasonably take the loss in stride. Murray St is another program that comes to mind that usually has a pretty mature and developed attitude postgame.
By the way, anyone else seeing the irony of WKU dominating in football while MT is dominating in basketball. Hasn't that role been reversed in years past?
One overlooked aspect in the big game seems to be WKU's attention to King in their attempt to slow him down. The upside for MT, too many other good players were able to step up with huge games i.e. Brandon Walters.
Anyone else starting to think that Stansbury is trying to copy some things from Kermit? Examples, Senior transfers. WKU seeming to focus on 1-3-1 defense, or at least trying.
Anyone else starting to think that Stansbury is trying to copy some things from Kermit? Examples, Senior transfers. WKU seeming to focus on 1-3-1 defense, or at least trying.
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