BASKETBALL Middle Tennessee (1-0, 0-0 C-USA) at Winthrop (1-1, 0-0 Big South), 3PM, Saturday, Novermber 12, 2022

[SpaceRaider]

Location: Rock Hill, SC
2021-22 Record 23-9, 14-2
Enrollment: 6,109
2021-22 Finish: 1st Big South
2021-22 Postseason: Big South Finals
Starters R/L: 2/3 Letterwinners R/L: 7/6
Arena: Winthrop Coliseum (6,100)
Website: winthropeagles.com
Colors: Gold & Garnet Nickname: Eagles
Head Coach: Mark Prosser
Record at School: 23-9 (2nd Season) Career Record: 60-62 (5th Season)

 

[SpaceRaider]

Blue Raiders Head to Winthrop for First Road Test - Middle Tennessee State University Athletics

MURFREESBORO, Tenn. – After a season-opening win at home on Monday, Middle Tennessee men's basketball will look to move to 2-0 when it visits Winthrop this Saturday.

goblueraiders.com

 

[sWiley]

We are -1 on the road. Gonna be a tall task

 

[MTFAN61]

I feel if this team could shoot close to the 35 percent range from 3 they can play with & beat anyone on their schedule. That being said we were only 27 percent from 3 in game 1 at home. Hopefully confidence & proper spacing will continue to develop throughout the season. Tomorrow afternoon will be big test #1. Go Raiders!

 

[MTFAN61]

Bad night for CUSA basketball. UAB, FAU both lose. UTSA which is one of our weakest got curb stomped

 

[sWiley]

Bad night for CUSA basketball. UAB, FAU both lose. UTSA which is one of our weakest got curb stomped

Yep. You can forget about being a multiple bid league with results like that.

 

[MTFAN61]

Yep. You can forget about being a multiple bid league with results like that.

Just checked CBS preseason rankings. For FAU at least Ole Miss was preseason ranked #55, & for the UAB supporters, Toledo was not ranked in the top 100 while UAB WAS #39. I won't gloat too much, until we see what happens about 5:30 tomorrow. Learned to never predict basketball

 

[SpaceRaider]

 

[ewglenn]

Hopefully we can get a win. Winthrop will be a good team.

 

[sWiley]

Lovely offense. We are on pace for what, 20 points ?

I smell a blowout. We have no offense

 

[MTFAN61]

At the 1st tv timeout Raiders looking like the rest of CUSA thus far

 

[sWiley]

Not sure what's worse our basketball or football team

 

[MTFAN61]

Fussell never touched him on the 3.

 

[sWiley]

games over before it even started. look at all these fouls and totally lost on offense

 

[MTFAN61]

Finally back to back baskets without turnover or foul. Must have taken our adderall during last timeout. Why are we playing like madmen?? This is not North Carolina in front of 20,000.
We may be starting to settle down

 

[sWiley]

we don't even look like we belong on the same floor. they are better in every phase of the game

this team can't even hit a free throw meanwhile winthrop doesn't miss, from anywhere

 

[sWiley]

L

Off to watch something else. Going to be a long year. To say this team is offensively challenged would be an understatement.

 

[MTFAN61]

Personal thoughts after watching most of 1st half against D1 competition, this team misses not just Sims & Jefferson. It misses last year's coaching staff. These guy's are playing like pick up street ball. Zero coaching fundamentals!

 

[sWiley]

I just want to add: We are getting boat raced by a team who's coach makes 30% of what McDevitt makes.

We have one of the highest paid non-American G5 coaches in the country and the other guy who makes 200k a year has better players. Our assistant coaches make more than their head coach, for perspective.

 

[FranklinRaider315]

L

Off to watch something else. Going to be a long year. To say this team is offensively challenged would be an understatement.

At this rate, you may only be posting in the track and field and WBB forums. 😂😂😂

 

[MTFAN61]

Showing some fight. Reminds me of the ladies 1st game. I don't think 10 minutes of quality play will be enough though

 

[sWiley]

In the 20ish years I've followed this program I don't think I have ever seen free throw shooting this bad.

Holy mother of god. WE, AS A MESSAGE BOARD, COULD HIT MORE

 

[MTFAN61]

Didn't we shoot close to 75 percent from the stripe last year

 

[MTFAN61]

Winthrop deserves it

 

[TrueBlue147]

Terrible offense and defense this game. Offense is about what I expected (see my earlier posts on the topic) but defense was much worse. There is no reason we should be this bad on defense considering what we returned. Poor free-throw shooting, too many fouls, turnovers, bad FG %. That being said, it is still early and alot of this can get cleaned up. I don't think we're going to have a good OOC record but hopefully by the time conference starts they will figure something out. We still won't have any scorers. Mcdevitt desperately needs to recruit some next season or it will be more of the same.

 

[MidTennMtneer]

51.7% from the stripe. 15-29

Winthrop was 27-31. 87.1%.

That's the game right there. I'm absolutely one of those that there is zero excuse for ever missing a free throw. None.

 

[sWiley]

how can a college basketball team that shoots 50% from the FT line (with 29 attempts) be taken seriously ?

These bums cost me $600 tonight. They win the turnover battle, they win the rebound battle, they attempt nearly 20 more shots than the opponent...and STILL find a way to lose because they can't put the ball in the basket.

52% from the FT line
18% from 3pt line

To say I am pissed off would be an understatement. I knew this team would be offensively challenged but I didn't think they would shoot like a literal junior high squad. Winthrop isn't even that good, and they play in one of the weakest D1 conferences in the country. Pathetic loss

 

[MTFAN61]

15 - 29 at the line is not due to lack of skill or talent. This is lack of discipline & concentration which falls back on the coaching staff. A month ago Oliver started a discussion thread. One of the things brought up was how terribly the team played for 1st 3 years under McDevitt & company, then coach Turner Battle shows up year 4. Suddenly It's a night & day difference. He was here for just 1 year, only. I was hoping it was coincidence, & that we would not revert back to same undisciplined style of play as years 1 - 3. After watching tonight I was reminded of those same 1st 3 years of play. When brought up that Sean Dixon also left recently, my only argument would be he was also here for those same disastrous 3 prior years. Until things change for the better my contention will be that in the past 5 years coach Battle may have been the only one here worth his salt. It looks like the rest just say let's throw it up & see what happens. Coach Nick your a heck of a recruiter no doubt, now here's your chance to show if you know an X from an O. Prove me wrong in my assumption, please

 

[ewglenn]

I’m not shocked, Winthrop is a good team. It’s a long season to start panicking now. Give them a few more games before we start being this critical.

 

[TrueBlue147]

15 - 29 at the line is not due to lack of skill or talent. This is lack of discipline & concentration which falls back on the coaching staff. A month ago Oliver started a discussion thread. One of the things brought up was how terribly the team played for 1st 3 years under McDevitt & company, then coach Turner Battle shows up year 4. Suddenly It's a night & day difference. He was here for just 1 year, only. I was hoping it was coincidence, & that we would not revert back to same undisciplined style of play as years 1 - 3. After watching tonight I was reminded of those same 1st 3 years of play. When brought up that Sean Dixon also left recently, my only argument would be he was also here for those same disastrous 3 prior years. Until things change for the better my contention will be that in the past 5 years coach Battle may have been the only one here worth his salt. It looks like the rest just say let's throw it up & see what happens. Coach Nick your a heck of a recruiter no doubt, now here's your chance to show if you know an X from an O. Prove me wrong in my assumption, please

I don't think Mcdevitt is a great recruiter. Who has he recruited that has been a superstar player? I would say he is an average recruiter.

 

[MTFAN61]

I don't think Mcdevitt is a great recruiter. Who has he recruited that has been a superstar player? I would say he is an average recruiter.

Prior to the NIL program of buying a player any transfer had to set a full year before playing. Even though they were transfers Elias King & Coleman-Jones were both P5 4 star recruits at their respective schools. T Lenard as a 3 star recruit was considered CUSA's top freshman pick. Now varying analysts have him as a sleeper nba pick. I can't recall MT ever with a 2nd year sleeper nba pick.

 

[sWiley]

Prior to the NIL program of buying a player any transfer had to set a full year before playing. Even though they were transfers Elias King & Coleman-Jones were both P5 4 star recruits at their respective schools. T Lenard as a 3 star recruit was considered CUSA's top freshman pick. Now varying analysts have him as a sleeper nba pick. I can't recall MT ever with a 2nd year sleeper nba pick.

King was a big bust at Miss St. and had to leave if he ever wanted to see the court. His star rating didn't matter at that point, he had to take his best offer available and it was us. Coleman-Jones was a similar deal at Northwestern. Star rating doesn't mean anything once a player has been viewed as a bust/project.

Kermit Davis did the exact same thing with Nick King, the iowa state transfer, and JaCorey Williams. They were all highly rated recruits at their respective schools and fizzled out and had to come to a school like ours. Only difference is, Kermit actually got 110% out of these guys and won a shit ton of games.

T Lenard doesn't look to have progressed at all this off-season. In fact, I'm calling for a sophomore blues type of year for him and regression. His shooting is really bad. Ill-timed and ill-advised, rarely looks in rhythm, and just not connecting at a rate you need to have from the guard position. If he keeps playing the way he is he'll be lucky to even start for us, much less be discussed as an NBA sleeper. I'll admit I was very high on him last year, but I don't see any improvements in his game. He's still a remarkably ineffective scorer unless 5 feet from the basketball. The potential is still there, he has physical traits and skills that you can't teach and his defensive presence is good, but I just don't see the scoring threat that is needed from his position and it's difficult to see him magically developing it.

This team will win a decent chunk of games because they will simply physically dominate weak and mediocre competition with their size and athleticism and get 20+ more shot attempts and just win with bulk shooting. But when skillful shooting is required because possessions are limited and we are playing good teams, I see very bad outcomes in our future. Sure, they will catch fire a few nights here and there and shoot the nets out against a few good teams, but there isn't going to be any consistency on the offensive side of the ball and that's what you gotta have to win championships and make runs deep into March.

Winthrop game really pissed me off. More so because they cost me $600 I will admit, but mostly because of the manner in which they lost and subsequently lost me my money. If Winthrop was simply the better team and we weren't good enough to win, I wouldn't have been bothered at all and would have chalked it up to just another lost bet and a learning opportunity for the team. But that simply wasn't the case.

I don't think I've ever watched a more undisciplined game in Blue Raider history. The amount of stupid, careless fouls was jaw dropping. Shot selection was as bad as I've ever seen it. Very little to no rhythm on the offensive side of the ball. No inside-outside game, no smooth moves and easy buckets down low from Dishman, no consistent outside scoring threats, nobody that could drive to the basket and create something. Nothing. This team has zero offensive identity. Oh, and 52% from FT line with 29 attempts, I don't even know what to say to that. They were literally out there playing streetball, and wouldn't shut the F up despite getting beat wire-to-wire by a bum Big South team. Zero composure and zero discipline yet they still only lost by 6. Infuriating.

 

[MTFAN61]

I’m not shocked, Winthrop is a good team. It’s a long season to start panicking now. Give them a few more games before we start being this critical.

Certainly not critical of the players physical effort on the floor, they played like mad hard. Think that's what I was critical of, settle down fellas! A team with an 80 percent returning cast with an additional year of seasoning under its belt was more out of control than in any game I could practically remember last year. Even that I could accept because of high expectations & a strong to desire to impress, that's understandable. But to take close to 30 free throws & to hit only half?? Not excusable. Put me down as shocked for those numbers. To add, I have no idea what # were missed of 1 plus 1's. Could easily have been in excess of 30 taken. But yes it will take time to get play in line. Part of it could have been nerves getting inside their heads adding to miscues. It happened to the ladies, & see what they did in game 2! Hoping for more settled play & free throw shooting. We'll see game 2, and absolutely still support the guys efforts!

 

[crposton]

I didn’t come on here during the game because I knew there would be some major overreacting going on. The game was very ugly for a while and FT shooting was atrocious. We act like we have never seen FT shooting so bad before, but the NCAA tournament team that beat Mich St. shot 61% on the season. I think they were 4th from the bottom if D1? I am not sure if they ever had a 50% game, but I wouldn’t doubt it. It does not excuse this team, but we act like that is unheard of. It is a long season and we only lost by 8 on the road to a team that could easily make the NCAA tournament while shooting under 20% from 3 and 50% from the line. I don’t think we should hit the panic button just yet.

 

[FranklinRaider315]

I didn’t come on here during the game because I knew there would be some major overreacting going on. The game was very ugly for a while and FT shooting was atrocious. We act like we have never seen FT shooting so bad before, but the NCAA tournament team that beat Mich St. shot 61% on the season. I think they were 4th from the bottom if D1? I am not sure if they ever had a 50% game, but I wouldn’t doubt it. It does not excuse this team, but we act like that is unheard of. It is a long season and we only lost by 8 on the road to a team that could easily make the NCAA tournament while shooting under 20% from 3 and 50% from the line. I don’t think we should hit the panic button just yet.

I only checked in to read sWiley’s posts when I saw the 17 pt. Winthrop lead. He had a vested interest. 😂

 

[OliverLBaltz]

Keep in mind the last time they shot this poorly from the line in a game was November of the 2016-17 season (UNCW), which ended up basically the best season in program history. The team FT% that season finished at 69.9%.

No loss (or win) is meaningless IMO, I am disappointed with how they came out. Definitely saw shades of the first 3 CNM years in the first half. Still worry about the halfcourt offense. If guys arent getting past their defender or arent threats to finish at the rim, the defense has no reason to help off their man and the ball doesn't rotate, forcing us to jack up contested jumpers or get stuffed on a weak post shot.

All that said, still extremely early. Winthrop played a true opponent in Penn State and then a D3 team before Middle, and were clearly in better rhythm as a result. Road games against good teams arent easy. Think if you copy the 2nd half strategy and execution and paste it in the 1st, they probably win. Liked that Nick played Weston and Porter together down the stretch.

And all THAT said, Rice needs to be a win. Because the first three seasons and the fourth season were so drastically different, it is easy to think dualistically about our prognosis of this year's team. Were the first three seasons outliers with justified excuses? Or was last season the outlier where you had a perfect storm of talent, experience, revenge mentality, and opponents being caught off guard? Rice isnt a must-win for the sake of the season, but the bad vibes from 2019-2021 will bust through a wall like the Kool-Aid man if they start 0-2 to two teams we expected them to be better than.

 

[MTFAN61]

Keep in mind the last time they shot this poorly from the line in a game was November of the 2016-17 season (UNCW), which ended up basically the best season in program history. The team FT% that season finished at 69.9%.

No loss (or win) is meaningless IMO, I am disappointed with how they came out. Definitely saw shades of the first 3 CNM years in the first half. Still worry about the halfcourt offense. If guys arent getting past their defender or arent threats to finish at the rim, the defense has no reason to help off their man and the ball doesn't rotate, forcing us to jack up contested jumpers or get stuffed on a weak post shot.

All that said, still extremely early. Winthrop played a true opponent in Penn State and then a D3 team before Middle, and were clearly in better rhythm as a result. Road games against good teams arent easy. Think if you copy the 2nd half strategy and execution and paste it in the 1st, they probably win. Liked that Nick played Weston and Porter together down the stretch.

And all THAT said, Rice needs to be a win. Because the first three seasons and the fourth season were so drastically different, it is easy to think dualistically about our prognosis of this year's team. Were the first three seasons outliers with justified excuses? Or was last season the outlier where you had a perfect storm of talent, experience, revenge mentality, and opponents being caught off guard? Rice isnt a must-win for the sake of the season, but the bad vibes from 2019-2021 will bust through a wall like the Kool-Aid man if they start 0-2 to two teams we expected them to be better than.

Fair call. Let's move on to Rice & have a good game.

 

[dukewayne]

Look, I can, and have, gotten down on the team at points over the years especially including the ugly recent few year run. With that out of the way, I think it is a little too early to be throwing the team & coaches under the bus.

Sure I wasn't happy about the loss, but it was the first real game of the season. Plus, it was on the road vs a decent team. Admittedly, the opponent was not necessarily a great team much less a national power, but they weren't a bad team either.

I was frustrated with MT's effort for about the first 15 mins of the game. I thought they looked lethargic and just generally lacked effort and energy. With about 5 mins to go in the 1st, they looked like they started to wake up. During the 2nd half, MT finally appeared to be playing with a sense of urgency, effort, and energy. Unfortunately, it was just a little too late in order to be able to pull out the win. I hope the team learns from that.

I was more alarmed about the lack of discipline. I hope that is quickly corrected. After last year's success and this being the first real game, I'm not hitting the panic button. I just hope to see better discipline.

There is a clear gaping hole from the loss of 5th/6th year Seniors in the backcourt as floor generals. As Oliver mentioned above, Weston & Porter showed some signs of starting to fill that role down the stretch.

I was encouraged to start to see the communication amongst the players especially on the sidelines during timeouts etc. It looked like the players were encouraging each other and holding each other accountable. At least that is the way it looked.

It also appeared that Coleman-Jones was exhibiting good leadership while both on the floor and during timeouts. It was good to see leadership amongst the team. Unfortunately for Coleman-Jones, his being rusty after the season off has him in limited minutes at this point.

 

[sWiley]

Appears this is going to be the bad loss I always thought it was going to be. They were not an impressive team in the least bit.

We are their only win over a D1 school to date. They are 2-4 with wins over MT & Piedmont.

They've been blown out by Auburn, Penn State, and today a 25 point loss to Southern Miss. All double digit losses, with their 4th loss being a 9 point L to Mercer that wasn't as close as the score indicates.

Yikes.