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FranklinRaider315

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^^^^ Very sad when you lay it all out like that.

Plenty of blame to go around for it too. Kermit, McPhee, Massaro, and McDevitt.

What's that saying......The blind leading the blind?
Meanwhile......Kermit beat the hell out of his alma mater last night in the basketball version of the Egg Bowl. :D
 

blueraiderJT

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6 wins (3 D1) in our conference is simply unacceptable. He should be fired for that alone. We will not make the CUSA tourney which I said wouldn't happen more than a month ago. He will get another year. If it's remotely the same as this year and Massaro doesn't pull the trigger, then the program is dead.

How can he recruit with these results? Who would want to play here and for him? That's why he should be fired now. We aren't losing anything by canning him. Massaro won't but I would have already done it.
 

RaiderDawg78

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Meanwhile......Kermit beat the hell out of his alma mater last night in the basketball version of the Egg Bowl. :D
I expect Ben Howland to be asked to retire. You can’t lose to a crappy team you have better talent than and cant lose like that when leading at half & only down 4 with 10 minutes to go. Complete meltdown by state and Tyree going off for OM.

Howland is doing a real poor job with the team and the sharks are circling. Good thing that AD will pull the trigger if the coach isn’t working.
 

sWiley

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To be fair Ole Miss is much better than their record and is playing good basketball right now. The game was a pick in Vegas. No shame in losing there to a hot shooter like tyree. It’s a rivalry game though and fans can’t be too happy. Still plenty of ball left for Miss St to get into tournament.
 

RaiderDawg78

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To be fair Ole Miss is much better than their record and is playing good basketball right now. The game was a pick in Vegas. No shame in losing there to a hot shooter like tyree. It’s a rivalry game though and fans can’t be too happy. Still plenty of ball left for Miss St to get into tournament.

I don’t think Ole Miss is good.

MSU has 2 guys that are projected NBA draft picks. They are playing like a NIT team and honestly that’s where they belong based on play. I would have no issues with Ben Howland getting canned.
 

dukewayne

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Folks it's Feb, and right on time, the Kermit coached team is coming together and getting hot. 3 straight wins with time still left for Ole Miss to make some noise down the stretch of $EC play.

Most any of us watching Kermit for over 15 years knew this was entirely predictable.
 

RaiderDawg78

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Folks it's Feb, and right on time, the Kermit coached team is coming together and getting hot. 3 straight wins with time still left for Ole Miss to make some noise down the stretch of $EC play.

Most any of us watching Kermit for over 15 years knew this was entirely predictable.
He is going to finish 17-14. That’s straight up his first 9 years here.
 

crposton

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Folks it's Feb, and right on time, the Kermit coached team is coming together and getting hot. 3 straight wins with time still left for Ole Miss to make some noise down the stretch of $EC play.

Most any of us watching Kermit for over 15 years knew this was entirely predictable.
I don’t know why everyone seems to care what Kermit and Ole Miss are doing.
 
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JohnDavidBlue

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true. true. But take "Ole Miss" out of that sentence and a lot of Middle people care what Kermit is doing. I'm not even entirely sure that we have seen the end of Kermit Davis and Murfreesboro. In some form or fashion, he is a large part of recent success.

I don’t know why everyone seems to care what Kermit and Ole Miss are doing.
 

MT01

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I don’t know why everyone seems to care what Kermit and Ole Miss are doing.
Probably because there damn sure isn’t anything to look forward to in our own program. If we were doing well no one would care what Ole Miss is doing. But instead we have a dumpster fire of a program.
 
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dukewayne

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Probably because there damn sure isn’t anything to look forward to in our own program. If we were doing well no one would care what Ole Miss is doing. But instead we have a dumpster fire of a program.
Exactly. I've been watching a couple of other teams with some amount of regularity this year just so I can enjoy some College Basketball. I try with MT, but I am in NO way enjoying MT's basketball games.

I enjoy watching teams play that exhibit outstanding effort.
 

dukewayne

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He is going to finish 17-14. That’s straight up his first 9 years here.
Yep, that is exactly right. See, it is entirely predictable.

To me, the big question with Kermit & Ole Miss is if and when Kermit gets the pieces in place to start the season hot? At MT, that was about a 9 or 10 year wait. I doubt Ole Miss will be as patient, but Kermit has likely learned from his past. Plus, recruiting is wide open for him in the $EC.
 

crposton

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Probably because there damn sure isn’t anything to look forward to in our own program. If we were doing well no one would care what Ole Miss is doing. But instead we have a dumpster fire of a program.
I will send you an Ole Miss shirt. Size?
 
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SpaceRaider

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Sure would be nice to have an audit of what the university gets from it, as well as what MT administrators receive outside of the agreements...
this is the kind of thing I'm talking about...

BBC:

...The US Department of Education said the elite schools did not fully report hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign gifts and contracts.

Harvard and Yale told the BBC they were preparing responses for the government.

It comes amid a clamp down on foreign funding to academic institutions.

Under US law, universities are required to report all gifts and contracts from foreign sources that exceed $250,000 (£193,000).

Since July, the Department of Education said it had uncovered some $6.6bn in previously unreported gifts from countries including Qatar, China, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. It said this figure could be "significantly underestimated".

Officials have previously described foreign spending on US universities as a "black hole" and warned that such money can come with strings attached....
 
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MT01

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I will send you an Ole Miss shirt. Size?
Hey. Thanks. Appreciate it. And for the kind gesture I will have a special athletics Razzie Award made just for you that truly represents the special place our basketball program has reached.
 
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MTLynn

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Sure would be nice to have an audit of what the university gets from it, as well as what MT administrators receive outside of the agreements...
Just like D.C., there are likely many under the table perks outside of the country (offshore accounts, houses, etc.)

This brings a MacArthur quote to mind:

“Much that I have seen since my return to my native land after an absence of many years has filled my with immeasurable satisfaction and pride. Our material progress has been little short of phenomenal.

It has established an eminence in material strength so far in advance of any other nation or combination of nations that talk of an imminent threat to our national security through the application of external force is pure nonsense.

It is not of any external threat that I concern myself but rather of insidious forces working from within which have already so drastically altered the character of our free institutions — these institutions which formerly we hailed as something beyond question of challenge — those institutions we proudly called the American way of life.

Foremost of these forces is that directly, or even more frequently indirectly, allied with the scourge of imperialistic Communism. It has infiltrated into positions of public trust and responsibility — into journalism, the press, the radio and the school.

It seeks through covert manipulation of the civil power and the media of public information and education to pervert the truth, impair respect for moral values, suppress human freedom and representative government, and in the end destroy our faith in our religious teachings."
 
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dukewayne

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Just a couple of decades ago, the Chicoms were little more than an agrarian society with few of the modern infrastructure staples. They went from a nation of mostly poor farmers to one of the wealthiest and most powerful nations on Earth in a couple of decades mostly off the backs of the American people.

They have bought off our corrupt politicians and "elites" in industry, finance, law, tech, academia etc etc, in an ongoing theft of technology & intellectual property. Heck, they have even been heavily investing and buying up Hollywood studios. Last I heard, the theft of intellectual property has been at $600 BILLION a year. This includes all of America's advances in weaponry. This includes guided ICBM technology. Where do you think the most closed off nation in the world, North Korea, is getting their missile technology? It has been one of the most disgusting and sickening sellouts of the American people in history.

These Chinese cultural institutes are on campuses all over America, including MTSU, so that the Chicoms can place agents to monitor, spy, and steal any scientific advances & technological breakthroughs in America's universities and pass along back to their Communist Party masters in China.

I'll end this rant here as this should probably be in another forum.
 
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MTLynn

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I don’t think Ole Miss is good.
I wonder how much of Kermit's success is the result of his assistants.

He had Donnie Tyndall until 2006 and the results were about what they are now at Mississippi.

Not much changed when he hired Artie Pepelea

In his few months on the staff, Rob Moxley was responsible for finding Cintron, Massey and Knight.

But Kermit's biggest success at MT was with Greg Grensing and Win Case.
 

MT01

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I wonder how much of Kermit's success is the result of his assistants.

He had Donnie Tyndall until 2006 and the results were about what they are now at Mississippi.

Not much changed when he hired Artie Pepelea

In his few months on the staff, Rob Moxley was responsible for finding Cintron, Massey and Knight.

But Kermit's biggest success at MT was with Greg Grensing and Win Case.
The answer to this question is yes and no. Don't forget Monty who I believe was also instrumental in on the floor teaching at the beginning of Kermit's run.

Having competent assistants is critical to success. But I have also written previously about what led to Kermit's success. And since I've written about it before I'm not going to detail it all again. But in summary, Kermit changed his style of coaching. His style, which in his early career and first 8 to 10 years at MT, were Bob Knight-esque. But that style did not fit the 21st Century kids. Millennial's do not respond to that type coaching. Remember, these are all kids that grew up getting trophies for showing up. The kids who came of age during the early 2000s came with a sense of entitlement and that was true even with lower economic status student-athletes to a degree. So, Kermit had to change. And he did. He also changed his recruiting philosophy. He figured out how to find kids that could play but that were also willing to play his style outside a P5. And then he added complementary pieces through transfers.The biggest thing though was that he changed his coaching and leadership style for which he deserves a lot of credit, because we always had good athletes who could play. The problem in truly getting over the hump from 18-19 wins seasons was addressing the amount of roster turnover early in his career here. The roster seemingly was always in flux. Things changed when he evolved as a coach, was able to keep them on the roster, and create buy in with the philosophy.
 
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MTLynn

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Kermit changed his style of coaching. His style, which in his early career and first 8 to 10 years at MT, were Bob Knight-esque
Gregg Marshall has a Bob Knight-esque style, I think.

I was stunned when Kermit was hired over Greg Marshall. I thought Marshall was the obvious choice.

Regardless, I'm interested to see how Kermit does at Mississippi.
 

sWiley

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Probably because there damn sure isn’t anything to look forward to in our own program. If we were doing well no one would care what Ole Miss is doing. But instead we have a dumpster fire of a program.
This. I have been forced to live vicariously through other programs because ours is dog$hit
 

kingaling42

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The answer to this question is yes and no. Don't forget Monty who I believe was also instrumental in on the floor teaching at the beginning of Kermit's run.

Having competent assistants is critical to success. But I have also written previously about what led to Kermit's success. And since I've written about it before I'm not going to detail it all again. But in summary, Kermit changed his style of coaching. His style, which in his early career and first 8 to 10 years at MT, were Bob Knight-esque. But that style did not fit the 21st Century kids. Millennial's do not respond to that type coaching. Remember, these are all kids that grew up getting trophies for showing up. The kids who came of age during the early 2000s came with a sense of entitlement and that was true even with lower economic status student-athletes to a degree. So, Kermit had to change. And he did. He also changed his recruiting philosophy. He figured out how to find kids that could play but that were also willing to play his style outside a P5. And then he added complementary pieces through transfers.The biggest thing though was that he changed his coaching and leadership style for which he deserves a lot of credit, because we always had good athletes who could play. The problem in truly getting over the hump from 18-19 wins seasons was addressing the amount of roster turnover early in his career here. The roster seemingly was always in flux. Things changed when he evolved as a coach, was able to keep them on the roster, and create buy in with the philosophy.
Glad to see you have some appreciation for a former UNC-Asheville coach! Monte was one of my favorite coaches.. probably the straightest shooter you'll ever met, you always knew where you stood with Coach Towe.. good guy!
 
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MT01

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Glad to see you have some appreciation for a former UNC-Asheville coach! Monte was one of my favorite coaches.. probably the straightest shooter you'll ever met, you always knew where you stood with Coach Towe.. good guy!
Well, his influence speaks for itself. The program went 79-22 during his three years on the staff. And a lot of people really close to the program talked a lot about his mentorship to the players and how well the guys responded to him in practice. And then he departs and we go 19-17 the next year before Kermit was able to turn it back on again.

Can't underestimate the role he played in jump starting the program from a decent one to a great one.
 
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sWiley

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Well, his influence speaks for itself. The program went 79-22 during his three years on the staff. And a lot of people really close to the program talked a lot about his mentorship to the players and how well the guys responded to him in practice. And then he departs and we go 19-17 the next year before Kermit was able to turn it back on again.

Can't underestimate the role he played in jump starting the program from a decent one to a great one.
Well then what's ole Monte up to these days? Sounds like we need to make a spot for him
 

RaiderDawg78

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true. true. But take "Ole Miss" out of that sentence and a lot of Middle people care what Kermit is doing. I'm not even entirely sure that we have seen the end of Kermit Davis and Murfreesboro. In some form or fashion, he is a large part of recent success.

Kermit is dead to me.

He’s like an ex-wife that after 9 rough years that you support her through, and then a couple of good years, she leaves you for her rich boss and takes all your favorite possessions with her.

In the end, you hope the ex catches VD and her boss hubby dumps her first chance he gets for his much younger secretary.


I don’t blame CKD for taking the money, but I really hate the way he left, recruiting our commits and coaching the NIT. So GTHOM
 

sWiley

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I will say, I'm very interested to see what comes of Kermit after Ole Miss is done with him. He will have to do really big things there to keep his job IMO. Their expectations are very high. The middle and bottom tier SEC programs go through coaches like hot cakes. Andy Kennedy had to win 20+ games every year just to stay there. First season where he didnt have 20+ wins, he was peaced.
 

JohnDavidBlue

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lol


Kermit is dead to me.

He’s like an ex-wife that after 9 rough years that you support her through, and then a couple of good years, she leaves you for her rich boss and takes all your favorite possessions with her.

In the end, you hope the ex catches VD and her boss hubby dumps her first chance he gets for his much younger secretary.


I don’t blame CKD for taking the money, but I really hate the way he left, recruiting our commits and coaching the NIT. So GTHOM
 

dukewayne

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Kermit is dead to me.

He’s like an ex-wife that after 9 rough years that you support her through, and then a couple of good years, she leaves you for her rich boss and takes all your favorite possessions with her.

In the end, you hope the ex catches VD and her boss hubby dumps her first chance he gets for his much younger secretary.


I don’t blame CKD for taking the money, but I really hate the way he left, recruiting our commits and coaching the NIT. So GTHOM
That is pretty freakin funny.

Do I detect a little Miss St rivalry talking?

I have to say that I see why Miss St people would be outraged. Isn't Kermit's roots in Starkville? That is the part that puzzled me about as much as anything. How does a Miss St guy take a HC position at Ole Miss?

How would folks around here feel about Brent Stockstill taking the HC job at WKU? Or how about Matt Insell taking the HC job of women's bball at WKU?
 

RaiderDawg78

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That is pretty freakin funny.

Do I detect a little Miss St rivalry talking?

I have to say that I see why Miss St people would be outraged. Isn't Kermit's roots in Starkville? That is the part that puzzled me about as much as anything. How does a Miss St guy take a HC position at Ole Miss?

How would folks around here feel about Brent Stockstill taking the HC job at WKU? Or how about Matt Insell taking the HC job of women's bball at WKU?
I do wish Kermit went somewhere I didn’t care about, like an ACC or B10 school.

But the way he left MT, specifically actively recruiting plays from MT to Ole Miss and coaching in the NIT, was crappy.

and I have mixed feelings about him as a coach. He was Rick Stockstill for 9 years, as mediocre as it comes. I really enjoyed the last few years, but it’s goes against my convictions that a coach is given that much time to succeed. So glad he won, but he should have never been here to do that.

as for Ole Miss, now that he’s there I hope the NCAA finds his petty cash drawer for players and he along with that school gets the death penalty. The funny thing, I didn’t dislike Ole Miss until I moved to MS for grad school. Same goes for Kentucky basketball fans.
 
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Raiderclyde

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That is pretty freakin funny.

How would folks around here feel about Brent Stockstill taking the HC job at WKU? Or how about Matt Insell taking the HC job of women's bball at WKU?
This doesn’t bother me.

In fact, there is somewhat of precedent in MT athletics history: Edgar A. Diddle, Jr. was head men’s basketball coach at MT in early 1960’s prior to Ken Trickey. He didn’t fare well based on his W/L record and didn’t last long here. His father won 724 games in college basketball and his name is lovingly etched on the arena at WKU in Bowling Green, Kentucky. Like everything else, coaching longevity should be about teaching and leadership excellence. Coaches should be required to have a strong body of work just to be retained.

If Brent or Matt excelled at a rival institution, wish them the best (except games against MT)!! Kermit much the same way: he made a decision that appears favorable to his career. However, cachet at MT being an all time great— worthy of having a court or building named after them— is not so much enhanced by them departing to another institution and having outstanding or legendary careers. Judge each primarily from time at MT and recognize IF personal or team accomplishments were clearly exemplary, or if personal contributions to the betterment of Middle Tennessee State University was significant and measurable over a lifetime, or if one made national impact/innovation to the sport itself (e.g John Heisman, “Mouse” Davis, Bob Knight, Al McGuire) at the end of their career/lifetime. Generally, supreme honors should be earned based on a long record (lifetime) of service to MT versus one hit season wonders or a short 4-6 year coaching career with a couple of above average years.

It’s about blooming where one is planted!!
 
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JohnDavidBlue

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I would hire Kermit to lead our department as an AD.

He never walked around like a zombie tossing tshirts. He was involved with Murfreesboro and he would expect excellence in the program and involvement in the community.

I wouldn’t burn the bridge. He knows how to sell us to be national brand. Am I happy he left the way he did...no. He should have been given an ovation and Greg should have taken the reins for at least the NIT. But that is neither here nor there.
 
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RaiderDawg78

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I would hire Kermit to lead our department as an AD.

He never walked around like a zombie tossing tshirts. He was involved with Murfreesboro and he would expect excellence in the program and involvement in the community.

I wouldn’t burn the bridge. He knows how to sell us to be national brand. Am I happy he left the way he did...no. He should have been given an ovation and Greg should have taken the reins for at least the NIT. But that is neither here nor there.

I really wish we had a tenacious AD. I want to send CM the 10x rule or have him watch Seth Feroce’s you tube channel. I want an AD that drives businesses crazy he is calling/in person so much. Forget working behind the scenes - go do thinks in front and behind the scenes. Relentless, attacking and set a tone. The biggest issue is not setting / demanding high goals and attacking it.
 

FranklinRaider315

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I would hire Kermit to lead our department as an AD.

He never walked around like a zombie tossing tshirts. He was involved with Murfreesboro and he would expect excellence in the program and involvement in the community.

I wouldn’t burn the bridge. He knows how to sell us to be national brand. Am I happy he left the way he did...no. He should have been given an ovation and Greg should have taken the reins for at least the NIT. But that is neither here nor there.
LOL! This post brought back a memory of that video our SID put out. That was pretty embarrassing.
 

blueraiderJT

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I do wish Kermit went somewhere I didn’t care about, like an ACC or B10 school.

But the way he left MT, specifically actively recruiting plays from MT to Ole Miss and coaching in the NIT, was crappy.

and I have mixed feelings about him as a coach. He was Rick Stockstill for 9 years, as mediocre as it comes. I really enjoyed the last few years, but it’s goes against my convictions that a coach is given that much time to succeed. So glad he won, but he should have never been here to do that.

as for Ole Miss, now that he’s there I hope the NCAA finds his petty cash drawer for players and he along with that school gets the death penalty. The funny thing, I didn’t dislike Ole Miss until I moved to MS for grad school. Same goes for Kentucky basketball fans.
Kermit has won more games in his worst years here than CMD will ever see. Kermit could at least coach. CMD looks like a deer in the headlights. I would take mediocre right over absolute embarrassment anyday.