McDevitt

Discussion in 'The Raider Roundup' started by MT01, Nov 25, 2019.

  1. MT01

    MT01 True Blue
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    A number of you will crap on this perhaps due to being external optimist in the face of reality slapping you in the face. Disagree all you want but since the day he was announced CNM has done absolutely not one thing to disavow me of my concerns. In fact, he’s validating them. This was simply a bad hire. He is in over his head at this level and it’s not just this tournament that shows it.

    You only need to look at the one game with Ohio. So here’s a team that hasn’t had a winning season in three years, they are picked last in the MAC East, and has a first year head coach that absolutely dominated McDevitt's team in every facet of the game. So, all these BS excuses I keep hearing/reading about giving time, be patient, he will turn it around, blah, blah blah can be swept away after what happened last night. At MT that’s the culture most everyone has been forced to chew and swallow. It’s why it takes so long for many to see the decline in football. In other words, at Ohio they hire a new coach and start flipping the script. At MT we just have to give it time.

    From my vantage point, the dichotomy between these two teams is indicative of why I have been concerned about what I see. Year 1, the Ohio program coming off consecutive losing seasons is already well, well ahead of MT in year one than MT is in year two. That should be a major red flag. MT wasn't a losing program. It was coming off a dominant and epic run and while I know that Kermit left with a bare cupboard after the signees were granted releases (which was a mistake), it's no longer someone else's fault. This is McDevitt's team and he makes $750,000 per year not to put the garbage product out that is currently MT basketball. The Ohio head coach makes $580K. Maybe McPhee and Massaro should have hired that guy instead?

    If I saw us moving in the right direction, I would say so or at least I wouldn't say what I am here today, but it's not. There is absolutely no improvement in year two and - as I said - the primary concerns that were pretty obvious from the day he was hired are being validated night after night when his team steps on the floor.
     
    1 MT01, Nov 25, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
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  2. MTLynn

    MTLynn Hall of Famer
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    Who would you have hired? I liked lipscombs coach (now at belmont) and I like McDevitt.
     
  3. MT01

    MT01 True Blue
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    I would have been ok with Odom. But like all things MT we half assed it. He wanted charter flights for away games which is too Division I for our blood, and our genius president wanted CNM.

    Odom will be at power school sooner or later. This was paramount to missing Rich Rod in football. But will take a few years before that becomes evident.
     
    3 MT01, Nov 25, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
  4. MT01

    MT01 True Blue
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    My first choice was the guy at C of C but it’s pretty clear we didn’t make that hard of a push. Or with Forbes at ETSU.
     
  5. MTBig Blue

    MTBig Blue All American
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    I've been of the frame of mind "to give him time and he'll get it done". However this last week was eye-opening. I didn't expect to be in the Villanova game but the fact that we got taken to the woodshed by two teams that we should be comparable to is scary. Tulane won 4 freaking games last year and we were never, ever in it.

    I get it that we have 3 forwards out right now, 2 of which will be returning soon but the result thus far are a little worrisome.
     
  6. mtfblue

    mtfblue All Conference
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    Can't use tulane, they got a new coach in hunter and he uses the transfer portal to perfection to get players.
     
  7. kingaling42

    kingaling42 Blue Raider Fan
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    MT01 is the guy that would’ve fired Coach K in year 3 at Duke...
     
  8. MT Glenn

    MT Glenn True Blue
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    I'm going to be more patient because he took over a program that had been burnt to the ground and is having to be rebuilt. My only argument against him is that Massaro hired him, so it must have been a bad hire.
     
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  9. MT01

    MT01 True Blue
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    kingaling is the coach's buddy who will try to influence online opinion of a failing regime no matter how bad it gets. Hey brother, just remember there are no tanks in Baghdad.
     
  10. MTOleBlue

    MTOleBlue All Conference
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    Kermit left a dumpster fire behind. CNM has to fix it, slowly. That much is obvious.
     
  11. crclarke55

    crclarke55 Blue Raider Fan
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    I am all in on giving him a legitimate opportunity to be successful. A year and 6 game isn’t enough. Also, seems like he is recruiting well. Remember, many wanted to run Kermit out before he had his run.
     
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  12. sWiley

    sWiley All American
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    And rightly so. It took him the better part of a decade to get anything meaningful done.
     
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  13. MTFNBY5

    MTFNBY5 Hall of Famer
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    I've been watching this thread along with the others connected to the four games played in the HTC Center. After watching all the games it is clear that the 2nd year of McDevitt's tenure is not going smoothly. I don't think it can all be blamed on Dishman's injury, Millner being our for some games, or the fact that Scurry is ineligible early (a fact known when planning for the year). Regardless of these inside players being out we were going to be a perimeter oriented team anyway with three players starting all of whom had two or more years playing on the D-1 level. We should have been more competitive against Tulane and Ohio. (Since Coastal proved to be pretty good before the injury to one of their players I'll overlook that loss which looked bad at the time)

    When we were going through the losing stretch last year I stated on this board that I would not begin to judge McDevitt until after the early signing period this year and the OOC results early this year. Those two factors, along with what improvement was to be shown during the last portion of last year would give an indication of future success. Clearly mixed results. Yes, have to be impressed with how we finished last season after the bad, really bad, start. And the one signing in this year's class is impressive but the early signing period is over and we have only one signee. The third criteria will not be over until the end of Dec. but I can't see another victory over any D-1 team in the OOC schedule. I hope I'm wrong.

    Two questions I would have for McDevitt:
    Since we have three perimeter starters with experience (two started for MT last year) just why is the guard play so horrendous. What factors have contributed to the unforced turnovers, poor shooting, inability (or refusal) to run offense resulting in numerous quick shots, and really bad perimeter defense. There is no way our perimeter play should be this bad.
    Additionally, when you had your first presser you stated in so many words that you liked to play fast and would do so until your players showed they could not play at that speed. Just what is it going to take to show you that this isn't working? Isn't it time for the knowledgeable fans to see you are trying a different approach?
     
  14. Hop45

    Hop45 All American
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    He was left with a dumpster fire at a horrible time for recruiting. He has only had 1 true season of recruiting. He gets at least another year for me before I start calling for his head. Too early.
     
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  15. MT01

    MT01 True Blue
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    At MT it's always wait til next year. Yet, at a Mecca like Ohio they can dominate us in year one coming off of a far worse situation.

    I disagree he was left with a dumpster fire. The program was on top of the world. We lost some key pieces for sure, but McDevitt failed at holding on to the key recruits that Kermit had signed representing MT's best recruiting class ever. He didn't even save one of them. He then dumped other players from the team that left the roster bare. I don't know the circumstances with Antwane Johnson, but was he ever charged with a crime? Given the roster situation could he not have suspended for half a season instead? He then ran off players like Shelton-Szmidt and Thompson and though they weren't world beaters didn't replace them with better players. Kermit's departure was BS, and I'm still somewhat pissed at him for the circumstances, because I still believe it cost us at the end of that final season, but CNM wasn't left with a dumpster fire. He inherited a program that won 24 or 25 games plus six times in seven years. I can assure you it was a hell of a lot easier pitch to prospective coaches here than it was at Ohio earlier this year - which is why we are paying almost $200,000 more per year for our head coach.

    I get the premise he has to be given enough to time "to see if he can make it work." But what evidence do we have it will in year 3 or even 4? That's my issue. I saw some things that gave me hesitation about this hire. I see those exact things playing out even when we play competition that is supposed to be equal to and especially lesser than us. Even if he is a great recruiter you can be a good one and still not be a good coach.

    For once, I actually respect wkcc more than my own university, because they dumped a football coach after just two seasons when it was very evident things weren't going to get better. We won't do that.

    But my primary point is I'm really disappointed with where we are. It should not have happened. And even if CNM turns this around three years from now and we are back in the tournament this period of time never should have gone down like it has. There is no reason for us to be this bad right now. Nor was it last year or will it be next year.
     
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  16. SigmaNuBlue

    SigmaNuBlue Blue Raider
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    Dude...really? We were on top of the world after beating WKU at home in front of 11k. And then we took a nose dive. We had an epic choke at the end of the season, and lost our best recruiting class. Losing those commits hurt, but that is the business. Let's face it, they committed to Kermit, not MT basketball. KD knew HIS stock wouldn't get any higher, bolted for greener pastures while giving a big middle finger to the university that stood by him for more than a decade.

    As far as I'm concerned, we are 7 games in to the McDevitt tenure. Last season was meaningless. There isn't a coach on the planet that could have won with the hand he was dealt. I know some, but not all of the details on why Johnson and Thomas were booted from the team. Sure it sucked, but needed to happen. You think CNM wanted to kick off one the best guards in C-USA just to give me himself another challenge? Come on man. He had to do it.

    Yes, the Myrtle Beach tournament was rough...but we are down 2, maybe 3 starters, so a lot of freshmen are having to play meaningful minutes. IMO, the only thing you can judge CNM on right now is the level of players he is bringing in. He just got a 3 star to commit to a program coming off a dumpster fire of a season.

    Once we get healthy, lets see how we progress throughout the season. Our expectations this year should be .500 overall and .500 conference, and win at least one conference tournament game...Some of ya'll need to step back from the ledge, or go cheer for Duke, etc. Give the man some time.
     
  17. RaiderDawg78

    RaiderDawg78 All American
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    With this mentality, you would have fired Coach K at Duke. He was 38-47 in his first 3 years post Foster taking Duke to the Elite 8.

    I’m not saying NM is anywhere near Coach K, but you have to give a new coach a few years to build a team with his players and system. That includes getting rid of talented players from the previous coach that break your rules or don’t fit your system.


    I don’t believe in the Massaro keep a coach forever if they manage .500. However, I think you have to give a new coach 3 or 4 years to build a team their way with their players. Fully expected a couple of crappy seasons in the process, with any head coach hire.
     
  18. subkyle

    subkyle Blue Raider
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    McDevitt was left with a dumpster fire. I don’t think the situation could have possibly been worse for him to begin his tenure. Not understanding this fact is silly. This thread is silly.
     
  19. kingaling42

    kingaling42 Blue Raider Fan
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    If you're going to use Ohio as the example then full disclosure is that the Bobcats gave Saul Phillips 5 years to show what he could do before his contract wasn't renewed last year.. That's the Mecca you describe so give CNM 5 years already...
     
  20. crposton

    crposton True Blue
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    You clearly do not know what you are talking about. He did not run off Shelton-Schmidt. He left to focus on other things he saw as more important. Every player he brought in last year is better than Thomas who averages 5 points and 2 rebs a game. Sure he only plays 10 mins, but that should show you how good he is when he barely sees the court on a 1-6 Sun Belt team. Also pretty sure Thomas was in with Dixon and Johnson.
     
  21. dukewayne

    dukewayne All American
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    I'm starting to get a picture of things that have only been hinted at around here. Sounds like there may have been one or two factors contributing to the uncharacteristic meltdown at the end of Kermit's final season. At the time, my speculation was that Kermit became distracted while working things out with Ole Miss. It seems some might be suggesting that there might have been more factors complicating Kermit's usually rigorous discipline. No wonder people are describing Kermit's closing weeks with such strong terms.
     
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  22. RahRahRaider

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    Can’t judge the guy yet. Freshman are playing a ton. I think you have to give him four years to get his guys in there. Everything was fine about a week ago now that we lose a couple it’s easy to look at the guy in charge and say forget him bring on the next one. I don’t care if it was Roy Williams, Kermit, or Bobby Knight, they couldn’t have fixed a problem like this this quick. Culture takes time. Culture is created with recruits as freshman. Give him time.
     
  23. JohnDavidBlue

    JohnDavidBlue All American
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    I see where 01 is coming from but I’m thinking year 4 should be the test.

    Kermit had way too much grace for his early lack of results and I definitely don’t want to wait out that time again.
     
  24. altshauf

    altshauf All American
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    Hang on... Kermit? No way. 16-14 and went to the sunbelt title in his 1st season. 17-12 his second year, 19-12 his 3rd. Before he arrived it was a “true” dumpster fire.
     
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  25. RaiderDawg78

    RaiderDawg78 All American
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    John didn’t say Kermit was a dumpster fire, he said early lack of results and I agree.


    Kermit was the Rick Stockstill of Mens BBall for his first 9 years. He averages going 17-14 (.548), never won a conference regular season or tournament, or a division title, or beat a P5 school or won 20 games in a season. He padded his win total versus D2, NAIA and NCCAA teams (games they counted as exhibition we counted as regular season wins). He was, going into his 10th season, tied for the longest tenure at a FBS size school w/o going to at least the NIT once.

    That is Stockstill level mediocrity. If he never made the NCAA/NIT, won a conference or even division, & was still going 17-14 per year, Massaro would still be renewing that contract.

    That’s too much leeway, but that’s Mediocre Massaro’s way.
     
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  26. MTLynn

    MTLynn Hall of Famer
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    I want Rick to have the same success as Kermit. I hope he can turn the Raiders into a 10+ win program every year. Crossing my fingers
     
  27. RaiderDawg78

    RaiderDawg78 All American
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    Since we are stuck with him, I hope so too. I tend to think what happened with Kermit is more unusual than the norm.
     
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  28. MT01

    MT01 True Blue
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    I believe what altshauf was trying to illustrate is that (aside from some not having good recollection) is that while the circumstances weren't ideal for CNM when he came in the program was as healthy as it had ever been.

    And in contrast what Kermit inherited really and truly was dumpster fire. A program that was further driven into the ground by another UNCA coach. A program that had no money, no status, no success, and no direction. That's what Kermit took over.

    Are some of you seriously going to sit at your keyboard and suggest that CNM somehow inherited a worse situation? I mean - if so - the delusion runs deep here in this place. What CNM had to deal with happens to almost every single new coach that takes a program coming off success. Some of the players who led to that success graduate. The recruits (generally speaking) don't stick. And the program has to more or less start fresh. Every single coach has to go through this when they take on a job when the previous coach left due to success. It's even harder when a coach is taking over for one who didn't have success, because there is literally nothing to build from. CNM allegedly gets a pass for last year because of when he was hired. Well, guess what all coaches for basketball get hired in the spring after the season just like the coach who got hired at Ohio only in March and dominated Nick's team with a team expected to finish last in the MAC with six freshman that Boals signed on just in his first month or so on the job. But that wasn't the difference the other night. The difference was Ohio played defense. I don't know why that's so hard to understand.

    I do believe he needs time to see if he can win here. All I'm saying is where is the evidence to support that? Looks like they have it Athens, OH. What do we have to give us some hope things are improving? I see evidence that supports all the concerns I had, but where is the supporting evidence that we are moving in the right direction? I'm not willing to wait four years. Year three we have to see dramatic improvement.
     
    28 MT01, Nov 28, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2019
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  29. RaiderDawg78

    RaiderDawg78 All American
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    No one said CNM inherited a worse program than Kermit.

    You’re right, the results are not good so far.

    It’s reasonable to expect us to show some life by the end of season 2 and to see us push above .500 in year 3. It’s reasonable to expect NM having us compete for, if not winning, CUSA in year 4.


    If we are still only winning ~33% of our games in year 3, we fire him. If we are not well above .500 in year 4, we fire him. If he hasn’t produced a NIT/NCAA bid and/or a conference championship in year 5, we fire him.

    That’s my expectations for a coach. I’m interested to see if CNM can pull it together given time.
     
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  30. MT01

    MT01 True Blue
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    I can go along with that. Seems logical - so long as we don't add on unwarranted extensions.
     
  31. RaiderDawg78

    RaiderDawg78 All American
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    The problem will be our AD. If CNM makes it to ~17-14 annually, Mediocre Massaro will extend him forever.
     
  32. MT01

    MT01 True Blue
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    I didn’t want to revisit until the end of the year but how’s our progress going? I have stopped watching the games. I mean there’s only so many times one can tolerate watching the same train wreck over and over again, so it has gotten to the point where I just check the score before the end of the night.

    But there was something that struck me earlier this week. I was listening to Mark Turgeon on the radio and he was talking about his team and specifically one of their recent wins. And even though I’m putting this in quotes for emphasis I’m paraphrasing what he said as I was in the car listening.

    He was talking about how they were struggling offensively. Both in terms of getting into rhythm and just having a really hard time making shots. And then he said “I told our guys to defend and rebound.” He restated that saying keep rebounding and defending and that would get them through their other struggles.

    On the other hand, we have a head coach in a similar but much worse situation and his emphasis is to tell his team to just keep shooting. We’ve heard that several times from CNM no? I still can’t, for the life of me, understand why there is so little development on the defensive end. When you know you don’t have shooters. You don’t have a lot of size and strength down low why you don’t emphasize defense and do so orders of magnitude more over the other aspects of the game. Maybe my fears were worse than even I thought when he was hired. I thought he just emphasized offense over defense but it seems like it’s starting to become pretty clear he just doesn’t even know how to coach that side of the ball.

    This is obviously nothing more than an anecdotal example but it really got my attention listening to Turgeon speak. In some respects is illustrates the chasm between the two and at least to me is a very visible and overt reason why one leads a top 10 basketball program and we have maybe one of the 10 worst.
     
  33. dukewayne

    dukewayne All American
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    What you describe is one of the main reasons CNM lost any confidence I might have had for him to improve and develop the team. I still have not heard any suggestion or seen any evidence out of him to suggest he is capable of big success at this level of competition. Frankly I'm dumbfounded that he has continued to assert that shots just aren't falling as one of the main reasons for the losses. It's almost unbelievable that a coach at this level making that much money to coach would even be making such assertions. I've been so dumbfounded by it that I was wondering if I was missing something he said or just misheard him. Sadly the continued poor results are aligning with his assertions on the team's performance.

    All of that comes back to the bottom line with me that he is just not capable of getting this program back to performing at a high level with big success.

    Off the top of my head, I cannot recall one game where the CNM coached Blue Raiders have really locked down on defense vs an opponent for an entire game.
     
  34. Raiderclyde

    Raiderclyde True Blue
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    In two years, MT MBB has gone from the “penthouse to the outhouse”. Two years ago, we were celebrating our AP Ranking of 24 and for two weeks, we had an unbelievable story of rags to riches with the stewardship of Kermit Davis. Kermit was far from perfect and he’s not a Naismith HOF coach like a Dean Smith or a Bobby Knight. But, he was the best we have ever experienced in our history as far as getting a sustained period of success. Us long time fans will also add Jimmy Earle (who will have his name added to the Hale Arena) as an all time great. In two games all of that goodwill Kermit worked for largely vanished: Marshall and USM in the C-USA Tournament. Cannot cry over spilled milk. He made a career choice and left us picking up the pieces. He did what was best for him and his family...I don’t exactly blame him for his life choices. But, Kermit’s legacy is somewhat diminished at MT as an all time great: maybe he will rise to national stature at his current job? That remains to be seen. The $EC has rich rewards, but it also has less tolerance for .500 or just above seasons too.

    Last years performance is more forgiving due to the roster turnover and loss of recruiting. We still made C-USA Tournament, but this year we won’t unless we win 4 games of our next 6 (in my view). We need to split against UAB and go 3-1 in bonus play. That gets 10 wins total (really 7 D-1 Wins). Tonight, what I saw was driveway basketball and a porous defense that allowed wide open shots in the paint. Got too far behind. “Our shots didn’t fall” is not a good enough answer from a D-1 Coach earning a high salary. What I saw tonight was a team that has played 25 games this season with lacking basic fundamentals, such as a lane violation along with ill advised shots and defensive breakdowns. Also saw a effectively wasted timeout in the 2d half near where a media timeout would have been. Would have been nice to have that extra time out around 1:00 left?

    Coach McDevitt is running out of opportunities to come around. He’s a seemingly good person, but not everyone can coach at this level. I’m beginning to think he may be beyond his level of expertise to get it done. It’s highly debatable at this point he should get a year 3. Remember Rice has not been to an NCAA Tournament since 1970...fifty years as a program from the dance! Our NET is 289 and we are losing decisively to programs such as these at the end of year two in this coaching regime.

    Tonight was a telling and disturbing sign. Just hope AD Chris Massaro understands the importance of this decision at the end of the season. Frankly, my confidence is quite low in AD Chris Massaro as far as his decision making abilities go right now.
     
    34 Raiderclyde, Feb 8, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  35. dukewayne

    dukewayne All American
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    Clyde, that makes you and me both. I have almost zero confidence that Massaro will make the bold decision that clearly needs to be made.
     
  36. dukewayne

    dukewayne All American
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    I would feel better about a year 3 for CNM if the team was at least showing goods signs of improvement with good play and 4 or 5 decent wins vs other teams that aren't in the cellar also.

    Rice is the team doing what I would have hoped MT would be doing late in the season in demonstrating improvement.
     
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  37. JohnDavidBlue

    JohnDavidBlue All American
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    There was a bit more defense against North Texas (I guess) but this street ball has me thinking this is a bigger issue.

    I really want Nick to be successful because when he is, Middle is. Right now I am dumping this stock!
     
  38. MT01

    MT01 True Blue
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    I didn’t watch it but would be curious how it was better. We allow just about every single opponent to shoot between 50 and 60%. Just looking at the box. No different in that game as UNT shot 52%. Sometimes you face a team that just has a hot hand but when you consistently allow opponents to shoot percentages this good defending is a huge problem. And you don’t need three and four star signees to play good defense.
     
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  39. MightyRaider

    MightyRaider Blue Raider
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    Agree. Looking back on the below article it is almost laughable at this point.... “we are going to be a tough, gritty, defensive minded basketball team” yikes

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dnj.com/amp/460700002
     
  40. dukewayne

    dukewayne All American
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    How many seasons was it when Massaro pulled the trigger and fired the baseball coach a couple of years ago? Was that 2 or 3 years into his tenure?
     

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