FOOTBALL Defense

[TrueBlue147]

What is the issue? I refuse to belive that the talent gap between us and Western is that big. If the excuse is that Stockstill left us with no talent, Mason signed 53 new players this year were they all terrible too?

Mason dominated Stockstill's spread offense when he was at Vanderbilt. Why is he struggling mighty right now?

Mason is a defensive guy. Is the issue is the defensive scheme? Why would he hire a terrible defense coordinator and why would he allow it to continue thus far?

Any chance he takes over defensive calling?

This is just crazy terrible defense. Tennessee Tech was bad and of course Ole Miss. If it doesn't improve I don't see a win on our schedule. Maybe Kennesaw State.

 

[RaiderDoug]

Well, this isn't NCAA football on the playstation - you don't just plug in a 76 rated guy instead of a 70 rated guy and boom, problem solved.

It was a shite night, no doubt - but those games happen to every program from time to time especially rebuilding programs.

WKU's won 3 straight bowl games, 3 of last 4 years have 9 win seasons, and is on their 6th year with their coaches - i have no idea why people chalked this up as a W.

 

[TrueBlue147]

Well, this isn't NCAA football on the playstation - you don't just plug in a 76 rated guy instead of a 70 rated guy and boom, problem solved.

It was a shite night, no doubt - but those games happen to every program from time to time especially rebuilding programs.

WKU's won 3 straight bowl games, 3 of last 4 years have 9 win seasons, and is on their 6th year with their coaches - i have no idea why people chalked this up as a W.

I thought I heard on the radio that Western had around 50 new players, so having many new players doesn't sound like a good enough excuse to me.

Also, I never "chalked this up to a w". I just thought the game would be a little more competitive and that we woukd be able to get more than one stop the entire game, especially with a defensive minded coach.

 

[RaiderDoug]

I thought I heard on the radio that Western had around 50 new players, so having many new players doesn't sound like a good enough excuse to me.

Also, I never "chalked this up to a w". I just thought the game would be a little more competitive and that we woukd be able to get more than one stop the entire game, especially with a defensive minded coach.

Well - i've no idea what their roster makeup is. But, WKU, considering their recent success, a coaching staff in their 6th year, and recent history of putting guys in the league and playing for titles can probably bring in a higher caliber of newcomer than we can at this point. They've certainly recruited better than we have for the past 15 years or so, so that's nothing new.

Kirby Smart went 4-4 his first 8 games at UGA, getting blown off the field in several of them, and his defense averaged giving up like 28 points a game in his first year. That team doesn't look anything like his teams a year or two later.

I always thought we'd open 1-4, and that progress would be assessed in November. I've seen nothing I haven't expected to see yet.

 

[TrueBlue147]

Well - i've no idea what their roster makeup is. But, WKU, considering their recent success, a coaching staff in their 6th year, and recent history of putting guys in the league and playing for titles can probably bring in a higher caliber of newcomer than we can at this point. They've certainly recruited better than we have for the past 15 years or so, so that's nothing new.

Kirby Smart went 4-4 his first 8 games at UGA, getting blown off the field in several of them, and his defense averaged giving up like 28 points a game in his first year. That team doesn't look anything like his teams a year or two later.

I always thought we'd open 1-4, and that progress would be assessed in November. I've seen nothing I haven't expected to see yet.

Really? You thought it would take us a last minute come from behind drive to beat Tennessee Tech and a beatdown at home like we just witnessed against Western?

I didn't think we would win CUSA this year but I thought we would e more competitive in these two games.

I'm not giving up on Mason this early, but I can't say I'm not disappointed thus far.

 

[ewglenn]

Really? You thought it would take us a last minute come from behind drive to beat Tennessee Tech and a beatdown at home like we just witnessed against Western?

I didn't think we would win CUSA this year but I thought we would e more competitive in these two games.

I'm not giving up on Mason this early, but I can't say I'm not disappointed thus far.

I was hoping for more in the WKU game but I’m not shocked either. They are one a good program that is consistent. I made my pick that we would win but that was totally a heart and not a head pick. I expected to be 1-4 after the first five games with a few beat downs along the way. We match up much better against Duke. Memphis will be ugly. The offense was moving the ball but we need to figure out how to punch it into the end zone. We could/should have easily had 35 points tonight.

 

[RaiderDoug]

Really? You thought it would take us a last minute come from behind drive to beat Tennessee Tech and a beatdown at home like we just witnessed against Western?

I didn't think we would win CUSA this year but I thought we would e more competitive in these two games.

I'm not giving up on Mason this early, but I can't say I'm not disappointed thus far.

I wouldn't have predicted 49-21, but I didn't think we'd win. And if you told me the score line would have been 38-24, I wouldn't have batted an eye.

There was never, ever going to be a quick turnaround. There was 17 years of non-competitive rot to clean out - it doesn't change in a few months. There's no winning culture here. There's no veteran older players to mentor younger players. There's not many dudes who stuck around to help in the transition with a bunch of them leaving in the portal.

I have said that I will judge Mason on the totality of the season, and whether or not I can see progress being made and that judgment requires a 12 game sample.

 

[AustinLewis]

The season has progressed about like I expected (expected a win against TTU, but I expected margin to be wider).

Expected to get blown out by Ole Miss and WKU. It's just where MT is right now. Expect another L against Duke & Memphis. .

As others have said, the season will be judged once you get into mid-October.

I'm not giving Mason a pass & believe some hard questions need to be asked :

1) Why did we not look explosive against TTU?
2) Why does MT have so many injuries?
3) How can we get playmakers the ball?
4) What needs to be done to stop teams on defense?

 

[TrueBlue147]

I feel like the coaches may be trying to force their system when we don't have the players for it. Our offense is terrible but we start out trying to run the ball. By the time they figure out that doesn't work we are down three touchdowns. Why not start out opening up the run with the pass first. In goal line situations, why not roll Vattiato out and give him the option to run it in or pass, like Westen did to us? Instead we tried to run it in four times in a row and couldn't gain a yard.

Defense is much harder to figure out.

They may need to wait untill they get the players that fit their system instead of trying to force it now. If that's what are they doing.

 

[Brew_Raider]

I rewatched most of the game last night.

It seemed like we stayed in a base 4 down, off man coverage most of the game. We did very little zone (ineffective) and just a few blitzes.

It was clear our DL was unable to consistently sustain pressure, so it was easy pitch and catch for WKU. Then, with a missed tackle in man, it was big gain after big gain.

Why did we not adjust from off to press man? Why the lack of zone blitzes? Why the lack of blitzing in general?

If they are just eating us up passing, then you have to adjust and we didn’t. Given CDM’s background, I expected the scheme and adjustments to be further along.

Also noticed a few upperclassmen that were lost a few times. I’m not calling out by name, but we had some guys that should be more aware costing us big time.

I’m curious if we see any improvements in this area. Talent is what it is this year. But adjustments and coaching points should improve.

 

[TrueBlueFB_23]

I was hoping for more in the WKU game but I’m not shocked either. They are one a good program that is consistent. I made my pick that we would win but that was totally a heart and not a head pick. I expected to be 1-4 after the first five games with a few beat downs along the way. We match up much better against Duke. Memphis will be ugly. The offense was moving the ball but we need to figure out how to punch it into the end zone. We could/should have easily had 35 points tonight.

Offensively it’s a huge combination of play calling/package & personnel decisions on big plays & inside red zone & OL (injuries & not the depth you want). We started out the game really moving the ball 1st drive then they start rotating guys in & out & im thinking nobody is tired yet. Why ever would O Kelley & H Willis come off the field except just as needed & quickly back on. Scrap all these packages that aren’t working & play your best O skill guys because with this defense, the O has to score a lot & keep our defense off field and with breaks. Stop forcing run when it isn’t there. Yes one would think you run from the 1 yard line, but if you get stuffed up the middle with your QB, be a little creative and not run back up the middle on 2nd down (yes he slipped but still). Then you decide to keep trying & on 4th you hand of to RB yo go airborne up the gut against a WKU team that is loaded in box and just stopped your arse 3 straight times. Get in the spread if you must run & run the QB behind a TE around the end. All he needs is a seam/opening to hit & punch it in. Vattiato did it behind Wills multiple times. Other options but for God’s sakes force the D to spread out. This staff seems to be forcing an identity instead of coaching what the players are best suited for. It’s a real head scratcher. Some local Boro OCs could run the offense better right now. They stated preseason they wanted to rotate a lot of guys….a great question for media would be why???? I mean if you needed to & could without drop off I guess keeping fresh guys might make sense but we ain’t running an up tempo air raid here folks. They don’t need a break every other play. Other teams don’t do this. Teams think we are running when Willis comes out & it is stupid. Our tendencies have been picked up in the stands so you think coaches don’t see this? They probably think we are stupid but hey gift to them. Willis can do both so stop it for crying out loud! Our best offense is from a spread so be stubborn or win games.

Have the coaches not picked up that play calls with Willis in motion worked well vs Ole Miss? Just decided not to attack our rival WKU with that? Targeting Willis opens up Kelly & vice versa. Miles Butler good hands too. With Frank out we really messed up this game offensively.

Defensively, OUT were arguably the 2 best LBers (with speed & tackle production from last year), 2 starting corners, and starting safety. If you don’t think that hurts any team, you don’t know football. That is catastrophic unless you have great depth. Still it just adds to defensive struggles and this is why we haven’t seen the opposing teams punters at all the last 2 games.

They need to flip a switch and make some changes & also hope to get some defensive guys back quick.

 

[AustinLewis]

FWIW, it usually takes about 3 years to build it.

Offensively it’s a huge combination of play calling/package & personnel decisions on big plays & inside red zone & OL (injuries & not the depth you want). We started out the game really moving the ball 1st drive then they start rotating guys in & out & im thinking nobody is tired yet. Why ever would O Kelley & H Willis come off the field except just as needed & quickly back on. Scrap all these packages that aren’t working & play your best O skill guys because with this defense, the O has to score a lot & keep our defense off field and with breaks. Stop forcing run when it isn’t there. Yes one would think you run from the 1 yard line, but if you get stuffed up the middle with your QB, be a little creative and not run back up the middle on 2nd down (yes he slipped but still). Then you decide to keep trying & on 4th you hand of to RB yo go airborne up the gut against a WKU team that is loaded in box and just stopped your arse 3 straight times. Get in the spread if you must run & run the QB behind a TE around the end. All he needs is a seam/opening to hit & punch it in. Vattiato did it behind Wills multiple times. Other options but for God’s sakes force the D to spread out. This staff seems to be forcing an identity instead of coaching what the players are best suited for. It’s a real head scratcher. Some local Boro OCs could run the offense better right now. They stated preseason they wanted to rotate a lot of guys….a great question for media would be why???? I mean if you needed to & could without drop off I guess keeping fresh guys might make sense but we ain’t running an up tempo air raid here folks. They don’t need a break every other play. Other teams don’t do this. Teams think we are running when Willis comes out & it is stupid. Our tendencies have been picked up in the stands so you think coaches don’t see this? They probably think we are stupid but hey gift to them. Willis can do both so stop it for crying out loud! Our best offense is from a spread so be stubborn or win games.

Have the coaches not picked up that play calls with Willis in motion worked well vs Ole Miss? Just decided not to attack our rival WKU with that? Targeting Willis opens up Kelly & vice versa. Miles Butler good hands too. With Frank out we really messed up this game offensively.

I kinda have the same line of thought :

Why is MT not basing out of 11 personnel with a couple of 12 / 21 personnel packages?

But the problem for those of us not in the meeting rooms, practice, weight room, etc is that there is a LOT of things we don't know. Do guys not know the playbook? Are they only good a specific things so they have to find ways to scheme for their limited abilities?

And what kind of tempo do they lift / practice at?

It's 2024. There are ways of practicing tempo (and getting guys more reps) that even pro-style teams do.

Defensively, OUT were arguably the 2 best LBers (with speed & tackle production from last year), 2 starting corners, and starting safety. If you don’t think that hurts any team, you don’t know football. That is catastrophic unless you have great depth. Still it just adds to defensive struggles and this is why we haven’t seen the opposing teams punters at all the last 2 games.

They need to flip a switch and make some changes & also hope to get some defensive guys back quick.

This is why the defensive struggles don't surprise me. Injuries to key players are going to affect any defense. It's also one reason that TTU got back in the game.

 

[AustinLewis]

I rewatched most of the game last night.

It seemed like we stayed in a base 4 down, off man coverage most of the game. We did very little zone (ineffective) and just a few blitzes.

It was clear our DL was unable to consistently sustain pressure, so it was easy pitch and catch for WKU. Then, with a missed tackle in man, it was big gain after big gain.

Why did we not adjust from off to press man? Why the lack of zone blitzes? Why the lack of blitzing in general?

Probably because of the backups. Injuries across the defense meant Mason / Stewart probably didn't feel comfortable playing man with guys they didn't think could stand up to it.

 

[Brew_Raider]

I get injuries limit how exotic a defense can be. We ran a lot more man considering the injuries.

I also know we can’t allow a QB to hit 90% of his throws with limited pressure. If we play like we did Saturday, we won’t win another game this year. We literally only stopped them 1 time and they dropped a TD pass on that drive (not counting the kneel at end of game).

Got try something different or heal injuries faster.

 

[Shayne_Pickering]

I get injuries limit how exotic a defense can be. We ran a lot more man considering the injuries.

I also know we can’t allow a QB to hit 90% of his throws with limited pressure. If we play like we did Saturday, we won’t win another game this year. We literally only stopped them 1 time and they dropped a TD pass on that drive (not counting the kneel at end of game).

Got try something different or heal injuries faster.

On the bright side, outside of maybe Jax State, the DL won't see another offensive line like that in conference play. On the down side, the defense has had its struggles outside of stopping the run all season. I don't really hold Ole Miss against them. Henry Parrish is running all over everyone