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BASKETBALL Basketball schedule?

blueraiderJT said:
Kermit won here even in his worst years. CMD hasn't even broke .300 yet let alone .500. Let's start there first. Besides all of that, Nick hasn't beaten P5's on the regular or ever here. He hasn't taken down a no.2 seed in the Final Four Tourney so it's a pointless argument. Until he wins on this level and matches upsets like that, it is what it is. No bashing of CNM here. This is fact. However, he now has talent and could do something real this year. If he does, then he can start to build his own legacy here and then it's all good. If he doesn't win with this roster, then we truly know what we have.

CNM still has big shoes to fill and he hasn't even put his socks on yet. It's year 3. It's now or never. I think that's a fair statement.
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Its funny you and MT01! think that I’m arguing for/against CKD or CNM by breaking down the last 7 seasons to answer a question someone asked about quality wins. I am stating that 7 big name wins in 5 seasons is not the same as MT01 claimed as 12 wins in 5 years- that’s all I’m arguing to be honest. Truly have no agenda other than providing objective data to reflect the truth about wins.
 
kingaling42 said:
Its funny you and MT01! think that I’m arguing for/against CKD or CNM by breaking down the last 7 seasons to answer a question someone asked about quality wins. I am stating that 7 big name wins in 5 seasons is not the same as MT01 claimed as 12 wins in 5 years- that’s all I’m arguing to be honest. Truly have no agenda other than providing objective data to reflect the truth about wins.
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We played who was in front of us. We weren't in a P5 conference so the schedule is what it is. I look at number of wins.

2011/12 - 27 - reg season champs - 3rd round NIT
2012/13 - 28 - reg season champs - NCAA Tourney appearance
2013/14 - 24
2014/15 - 19
2015/16 - 25 - Tourney Champ and upset over Michigan St. at the NCAA tourney
2016/17 - 31 - Tourney Champ and upset over Minnesota at the NCAA tourney
2017/18 - 25 - Reg season champs, Top 25 ranking, 2nd round NIT

179 wins in 7 years (25.5 wins a year avg.)

In his entire coaching career here, he only had 1 losing season and got 15 wins that year. I didn't even realize that.

Now let's look at CNM's performance at MT.

2018/19 - 11-21, 8-10 in CUSA (bottom 3 finish in the conference) Never have been bottom 3 in anything under Kermit.

2019/20 - 8-23 4-14 in CUSA - dead last

19-44 total record so far I believe.

You can talk about quality wins all you want. I'd settle for any wins under CNM. Kermit wasn't perfect and left a lot of meat on the table at times but he was pretty damn good for us. He's also 2-0 vs. CNM I believe so there's that. I do understand that 25.5 wins a year isn't high level enough for you so this is a moot point.
 
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blueraiderJT said:
We played who was in front of us. We weren't in a P5 conference so the schedule is what it is. I look at number of wins.

2011/12 - 27 - reg season champs - 3rd round NIT
2012/13 - 28 - reg season champs - NCAA Tourney appearance
2013/14 - 24
2014/15 - 19
2015/16 - 25 - Tourney Champ and upset over Michigan St. at the NCAA tourney
2016/17 - 31 - Tourney Champ and upset over Minnesota at the NCAA tourney
2017/18 - 25 - Reg season champs, Top 25 ranking, 2nd round NIT

179 wins in 7 years (25.5 wins a year avg.)

Now let's look at CNM's performance at MT.

2018/19 - 11-21, 8-10 in CUSA (bottom 3 finish in the conference) Never have been bottom 3 in anything under Kermit.

2019/20 - 8-23 4-14 in CUSA - dead last

19-44 total record so far I believe.

You can talk about quality wins all you want. I'd settle for any wins under CNM. Kermit wasn't perfect and left a lot of meat on the table at times but he was pretty damn good for us. He's also 2-0 vs. CNM I believe so there's that. I do understand that 25.5 wins a year isn't high level enough for you so this is a moot point.
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I answered someone else's question about quality wins- it 's only your agenda to compare the coaches or their records.. no where did I say anything about MTSU's overall level of quality play outside of Top100 (which was brought up by someone else) or the average number of wins each year overall.. you're just ranting on about the same old stuff simply because I'm the one who responded to another's question. It's just basketball talk for me which I generally enjoy.. evidently you enjoy beating dead horses for arguments no one else has engaged in..
 
We are all grateful for what CKD did for this program. But, I think we are losing sight of what it was like early in his tenure. He averaged 16.5 wins per season his first 5 seasons, including a 15-17 record in 06-07. We were a .500 team in 2010-2011 with a loss to Campbell. Remember Martin Methodist, Houston Baptist, and Global Sports?

Does Kermit have more wins than any coach in MT history? Yep. Would he have that record if he didn't continually get his contract extended with .500 seasons and no conference championship? Does that sound familiar?

We need to pump the brakes on the CNM vs CKD comparisons. Not a near big enough sample size. I'm not trying to take anything away from what Kermit did. Wish he was still here. And the Mich St win was the best sports day of my life. It appears CNM is finally able to put a competitive team on the floor this year, and I can't wait. Can we please drop the negativity and just be excited about basketball season? We have two P5 transfers putting on a Blue Raider uniform. Give the dude a chance. Sorry, off my soapbox now.
 
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kingaling42 said:
I'm not downplaying CKD's record- posting about MT's record over 7 seasons is simply data- it doesn't have feelings... you automatically assume I have an agenda which is your real mistake.



2012-2018 is actually 7 seasons of basketball my friend (hint: I even broke down all 7 years above if you ran out of fingers on your one hand)- did you work in the budget & finance section of the Athletic Department? Because your math/logic skills are amazing... I think you referred to my stupidity but I digress..
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You can't get out of your own way. Here let me type it slowly for you...

1. 2012-13
2. 2013-14
3. 2014-15
4. 2015-16
5. 2016-17
6. 2017-18

In all other worlds apparently except yours this is six seasons. And you have still missed the point. You countered CNM's horrible non-conference record with the "fact" that he beat one team (not even in a power conference) that had a sub .500. And then when someone else brought up Kermit you jumped all over that to the point where you literally went through some significant research to post every game meeting a set of criteria and your reasoning was clear. No one is fooled. No one.
 
MT01 said:
You can't get out of your own way. Here let me type it slowly for you...

1. 2012-13
2. 2013-14
3. 2014-15
4. 2015-16
5. 2016-17
6. 2017-18

In all other worlds apparently except yours this is six seasons. And you have still missed the point. You countered CNM's horrible non-conference record with the "fact" that he beat one team (not even in a power conference) that had a sub .500. And then when someone else brought up Kermit you jumped all over that to the point where you literally went through some significant research to post every game meeting a set of criteria and your reasoning was clear. No one is fooled. No one.
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You mentioned UCLA, Tennessee, and another Ole Miss win which were in the 2011-2012 season- type your list slower next time.. that's 7 seasons . When spaceraider corrected my UCLA error- I admitted it- it's not hard, give it a try..

As for my post several days earlier- I was yet again correcting your post about having never beaten a big name program while he was at UNCA.. it wasn't a comparison or reflection on anyone, it was just a statement of fact.
 
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After enjoying MT men's BkB under Earle, Simpson, and Stewart I lived through 20 years of mediocrity under Weil, Farrar, and in the first years of Davis' tenure.
While I am disappointed that McDevitt has started as poorly as he has and that he didn't at least show improvement during his 2nd year (in fact regressed - declined precipitously) I'm willing to give McDevitt a few years to get it right. What other choice do we have?
We all know the cupboard was bare when Davis left but we now have, on paper, as much talent as has ever been assembled on campus. Let it play out.
 
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I agree with you.

With any coaching change, especially given the style change, you expect some bumps. Even CKD said 2018-2019 would be a rebuild of sorts for him. However, the degree of drop off in the first 2 years of CNM was a disappointment. If CNM is going to be successful here, we should start seeing it on the court this season. It looks like we have some pieces to make this happen, I hope it does.
 
Yea, I kinda breezed through the history debate. I normally like historical discussion, but now the new season has my attention. Kermit's success here was great, but it's getting to be a few years now. It is time for CNM to show some good improvement particularly with the new talent and a full roster.

CNM's first couple of years were disappointing to me beyond the W-L and thin roster. I was really put off by the lack of effort, fight, defense, toughness, and overall lack of flow on offense. That is now in the past with the old thin roster giving way to a virtually new roster.

While I have been pretty hard on CNM these past 2 seasons, CNM still strikes me as a really likable guy. I'm more than willing to throw my support behind him if he puts some fight on the court. Since CNM's hire, his approach to recruiting has appeared to be a big strength. His style would take some time to develop on the roster. Presently, it appears his approach to recruiting is starting to pay off, at least on paper.

All of that to say, I'm willing to give CNM another chance this season to see if he can make this team into a competitive fighter. Despite the improved roster, the improvements have to manifest on the court in effort, defense, fight, ball movement, etc etc. I don't have an exact number of wins in mind to measure success. To me, yes it is about winning more but just as importantly it's how the team plays on the court with effort, discipline, execution, defense, offensive flow so on and so forth. Also, do they get better as the season progresses?
 
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SigmaNuBlue said:
We are all grateful for what CKD did for this program. But, I think we are losing sight of what it was like early in his tenure. He averaged 16.5 wins per season his first 5 seasons, including a 15-17 record in 06-07. We were a .500 team in 2010-2011 with a loss to Campbell. Remember Martin Methodist, Houston Baptist, and Global Sports?

Does Kermit have more wins than any coach in MT history? Yep. Would he have that record if he didn't continually get his contract extended with .500 seasons and no conference championship? Does that sound familiar?

We need to pump the brakes on the CNM vs CKD comparisons. Not a near big enough sample size. I'm not trying to take anything away from what Kermit did. Wish he was still here. And the Mich St win was the best sports day of my life. It appears CNM is finally able to put a competitive team on the floor this year, and I can't wait. Can we please drop the negativity and just be excited about basketball season? We have two P5 transfers putting on a Blue Raider uniform. Give the dude a chance. Sorry, off my soapbox now.
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I'd love to have a 16.5 win average with this current coach. I hope he can win every game this year just to get to that. :)
 
kingaling42 said:
You mentioned UCLA, Tennessee, and another Ole Miss win which were in the 2011-2012 season- type your list slower next time.. that's 7 seasons . When spaceraider corrected my UCLA error- I admitted it- it's not hard, give it a try..

As for my post several days earlier- I was yet again correcting your post about having never beaten a big name program while he was at UNCA.. it wasn't a comparison or reflection on anyone, it was just a statement of fact.
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SO what is considered a quality win? Is it top 75? Top 50? or Top 25? Is it P5? Is it RPI ranking? Like what data do you need? Also, what's the endgame? We don't have many? Whatever we have, it's way more than CNM because so far he has none. And so far he has none here which is all that matters to me. It's not a comparison because so far, there is no comparison. CNM is nothing like or anywhere close to CKD.

Now as far as this season goes, CNM can turn it all around. I sure hope he does. I'm rooting for him. I really am. The pressure is on for him to perform.
 
I’m still here... keeping comments to myself because I am knee-deep in this business now. Enjoyed the conversation about all of this. Plenty of things I want to say, just don’t think it would be appropriate. Bottom line is I bleed blue. We need these guys to find a way to start winning, and winning a lot.
 
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SigmaNuBlue said:
You think Kermit would have won 32 games the past two seasons with our roster? We can just agree to disagree.
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He won 16 games in his first year with Randy Weil's roster and no resources that we have now so yeah, we can agree to disagree.
 
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blueraiderJT said:
He won 19 games in his first year with Randy Weil's roster and no resources that we have now so yeah, we can agree to disagree.
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Kermit went 16-14 his first season, with losses to Global Sports and 4 OVC match-ups. But let's not let facts get in the way. He did finish with a 9-5 conference record. I don't think it is a stretch to say that his first roster, which included Tommy Gunn, Marcus Robinson, Eric Parham, William Pippen, Moon and Hump was more talented than what CNM inherited in his first season.
 
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SigmaNuBlue said:
Kermit went 16-14 his first season, with losses to Global Sports and 4 OVC match-ups. But let's not let facts get in the way. He did finish with a 9-5 conference record. I don't think it is a stretch to say that his first roster, which included Tommy Gunn, Marcus Robinson, Eric Parham, William Pippen, Moon and Hump was more talented than what CNM inherited in his first season.
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No doubt, much better talent for 1st year of Davis.
 
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The SOS of schedule for the 2019-20 season was 111 overall, 10 for non-conf slate which is the 2nd toughest schedule ever (the 2018-19 season was the toughest at 92 overall, 5 OOC).. highly doubtful that any of the Sun Belt schedules ever sniffed that level..
 
kingaling42 said:
The schedule is out.. article here schedule here

Akron
2 more games from Gulf Coast Tourney
Murray State
UT Chatty
Non-D1
Ole Miss
home/home vs Bellarmine
CUSA schedule
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All things considered not a bad schedule - just wish the pre-season tournament we are in had a few "power" schools. Wasn't so long ago IIRC that all pre-season tournaments were primarily "power" teams and good high mid-majors. Only recently have we seen the tourneys made up exclusively of mid-majors with varying degrees of expectations.
Hard to beat "power" schools (and draw attention to your program) if you don't have a chance on a neutral floor since they will rarely appear at your place.
 
kingaling42 said:
The SOS of schedule for the 2019-20 season was 111 overall, 10 for non-conf slate.. 2nd toughest schedule that I found for MTSU (the 2018-19 season was the toughest at 92 overall, 5 OOC).. highly doubtful that any of the Sun Belt schedules ever sniffed that level..
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Let’s be fair. CKD set up a challenging schedule and left. With the coaching change, we lost several high end recruits and went through a major roster turnover while bringing a new coach and new system.

I think it’s expected to fall off a bit in this scenario. However, I think the fall off was worse than expected. My other school is going through the exact same thing in football with Mike Leach. We expect some bumps, but his first season has been atrocious and people are definitely questioning the hire and if his system will work in Starkville or why we went away from a style that won ~60% of our games for the past decade. CNM’s first 2 seasons have been atrocious as well. I really do hope he turns it around this year. However, if we don’t start showing real improvement in the W/L column this year then this will look like a bad match.
 
RaiderDawg78 said:
Let’s be fair. CKD set up a challenging schedule and left. With the coaching change, we lost several high end recruits and went through a major roster turnover while bringing a new coach and new system.

I think it’s expected to fall off a bit in this scenario. However, I think the fall off was worse than expected. My other school is going through the exact same thing in football with Mike Leach. We expect some bumps, but his first season has been atrocious and people are definitely questioning the hire and if his system will work in Starkville or why we went away from a style that won ~60% of our games for the past decade. CNM’s first 2 seasons have been atrocious as well. I really do hope he turns it around this year. However, if we don’t start showing real improvement in the W/L column this year then this will look like a bad match.
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No doubt it's not been good and like some others here I strongly felt the lack of energy, heart, and desire by players was very disappointing and concerning last season.. having depth and talent should make a huge difference this year but the key will come down to chemistry, heart, energy, and some on-court leadership to emerge.

As wiley noted it's a good problem to have now in making all these guys happy- the back-to-back scheduling should help some of that but I'll be really interested in the roster management and player rotation strategies now that there are a full compliment of players for the first time in CNMs tenure..

On that note.. here's a did you know stat- in 24 of 26 non-conf games there have been no more than 8 scholarship players dressed/available the past 2 years... the other 2 games there were only 9 scholarship guys available
 
kingaling42 said:
No doubt it's not been good and like some others here I strongly felt the lack of energy, heart, and desire by players was very disappointing and concerning last season.. having depth and talent should make a huge difference this year but the key will come down to chemistry, heart, energy, and some on-court leadership to emerge.

As wiley noted it's a good problem to have now in making all these guys happy- the back-to-back scheduling should help some of that but I'll be really interested in the roster management and player rotation strategies now that there are a full compliment of players for the first time in CNMs tenure..

On that note.. here's a did you know stat- in 24 of 26 non-conf games there have been no more than 8 scholarship players dressed/available the past 2 years... the other 2 games there were only 9 scholarship guys available
Click to expand...

I did not realize those roster numbers. I knew it was bad, but not at that level.

I tend to be a W/L guy. Massaro is an awful AD, so this won’t happen, but if we win 10 or less games this year, CNM should be fired. If we aren’t it at .500 or better In year 3, CNM should not get a contract extension. If he doesn’t win the conference or make it to the NCAA/NIT by year 5, he should be fired. I hope he successful and earns the right to stay here.
 
The 2010-11 season was the year I thought for sure Kermit was going to be relieved of his duties. He was given a lot of rope and didn't hang himself after starting to recruit one year/one hit wonders.

This year will be Nick's defining moment. I don't suspect a firing due to money but I don't see his contract extended.

SigmaNuBlue said:
We are all grateful for what CKD did for this program. But, I think we are losing sight of what it was like early in his tenure. He averaged 16.5 wins per season his first 5 seasons, including a 15-17 record in 06-07. We were a .500 team in 2010-2011 with a loss to Campbell. Remember Martin Methodist, Houston Baptist, and Global Sports?

Does Kermit have more wins than any coach in MT history? Yep. Would he have that record if he didn't continually get his contract extended with .500 seasons and no conference championship? Does that sound familiar?

We need to pump the brakes on the CNM vs CKD comparisons. Not a near big enough sample size. I'm not trying to take anything away from what Kermit did. Wish he was still here. And the Mich St win was the best sports day of my life. It appears CNM is finally able to put a competitive team on the floor this year, and I can't wait. Can we please drop the negativity and just be excited about basketball season? We have two P5 transfers putting on a Blue Raider uniform. Give the dude a chance. Sorry, off my soapbox now.
Click to expand...
 
SigmaNuBlue: ". . . I think we are losing sight of what it was like early in his tenure."

What I remember is roster turnover (including a few really good players) and that every year the player who was sitting out was the next coming of Michael Jordan (never happened - many weren't even third string all-conference).

That said, his last half dozen + years were the best ever for this long-suffering MT fan.
 
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Despite the early two seasons of disappointment, at least I'm hopeful and willing to give CNM another chance this season particularly with the full and good looking roster.

Now Massaro, nope, no confidence that he will get things right.

While I was fairly outraged by the lack of effort last year, I will be interested to see if CNM can get them to play with great effort and heart. CNM virtually has 3 deep at each position this season while he hasn't had 2 deep at each position up to this point. Now there will be little excuse to keep a player on the court if he isn't giving great effort.
 
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SigmaNuBlue said:
Kermit went 16-14 his first season, with losses to Global Sports and 4 OVC match-ups. But let's not let facts get in the way. He did finish with a 9-5 conference record. I don't think it is a stretch to say that his first roster, which included Tommy Gunn, Marcus Robinson, Eric Parham, William Pippen, Moon and Hump was more talented than what CNM inherited in his first season.
Click to expand...
My bad, you're right. 16-14. Still a winning record. CNM ain't even got close to that. But let's not let facts get in the way. I question the talent level though. I was there. We can argue til the cows come home but I got crap to do so agree to disagree. Glad you're happy with what we have. Kermit wasn't perfect at all so I get it but so far, he is head and shoulders above CNM. However, I'll give CNM a pass now for the first 2 years.

CNM has the pieces he needs now apparently. Let's see what he does now. If he does well, I'll happily admit I was dead wrong about the guy.
 
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MTFNBY5 said:
All things considered not a bad schedule - just wish the pre-season tournament we are in had a few "power" schools. Wasn't so long ago IIRC that all pre-season tournaments were primarily "power" teams and good high mid-majors. Only recently have we seen the tourneys made up exclusively of mid-majors with varying degrees of expectations.
Hard to beat "power" schools (and draw attention to your program) if you don't have a chance on a neutral floor since they will rarely appear at your place.
Click to expand...

With all the pandemic scheduling and atypical start of the season it's not terribly surprising- given MTs poor play the last 2 years it would be improbable to get invites to tourney where power programs were participating in as well.. typically you have to work your way into those invites by performing well- I've always hated that somewhat because we've seen many years where mid-major programs have a really really good squad of seniors one year and the next year the team goes into a really nice OOC tourney having graduated a good class and it's tough. I'd like to see more of the home-home or even 2 and 1 contracts emerge with power programs as we've seen with the Ole Miss series.. typically these work best when you're not playing regional programs where player recruiting is less head-head between the 2 schools.. first step is getting the program back on track and seeing how the sports world evolves in this COVID world.. Akron, ETSU, Indiana State were good teams last year but hard to say how they'll look this year.. ETSU's team has already quarantined twice due to COVID cases.. and you've all seen how football has played out with cancelled/rescheduled games..

I think the schedule outside of the 1 non-D1 game will be a good test for this team and where they're at in playing together for the first time.. Akron, Murray State, Ole Miss should be good games- Bellarmine is a really good, albeit transitioning program. For this year and all the dynamics it's not a bad schedule- especially if the gyms end up relatively empty for these games..
 
I agree a decent schedule. We r not ready for a really demanding schedule. We have to o grow this team bigs r still young. At least just one d2 school. Look forward to season Nick didn’t have much talent first 2 years. Last year really young now is time to see improvement. I believe we will
 
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ECU just opted out of the Gulf Coast Showcase due to COVID concerns.

With the tourney so close and maybe other schools dropping out, I wonder if this tournament occurs.
 
I am a G5 fanatic so love these tournaments against other G5 opponents. Sad to see indiana state and Akron not playing.
We need to Win this tournament. ETSU and Austin Peay are quality programs. Omaha can be hit or miss but can pour on the points. Winning this tournament would be huge and a big indicator that things are on the up swing.
 
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We better play this tournament like it’s our last and win the whole thing. Covid may destroy this season.
 
With three of the teams in this 8 team tournament already canceling out just wondering if the promoters had back-up teams on standby (doubtful) and also just how you set up a bracket for a 5 team tournament and have all teams playing 3 games.

Got a strong feeling that the men's first game will be Dec. 2nd against Murray, if then.
 
Since the ole miss hosted tourney was cancelled there are three teams that are without those games. Seems too perfect match to happen though.
 
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