8-36 vs teams .500
- Thread starter sWiley
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Andy was 20-16 (.556)in conference play.
Stock is at 42-25 (.627). Maybe not huge improvement but improvement none the less. The trend lines are different too. Andys last two seasons here were 4-4 and 3-4. Stocks last two were 6-2 and 6-2. Andy was trending down every year. After winning 6 his first year he never one more than four. After his first year he was 14-15. Most would argue the SBC is was signicantly better as a conference during the Stock era too.
Also there were never four guaranteed losses on Andy's schedule. Our OOC was full of games against teams like akron, temple, SEMO and transitional SBC teams like FAU.
Stock is at 42-25 (.627). Maybe not huge improvement but improvement none the less. The trend lines are different too. Andys last two seasons here were 4-4 and 3-4. Stocks last two were 6-2 and 6-2. Andy was trending down every year. After winning 6 his first year he never one more than four. After his first year he was 14-15. Most would argue the SBC is was signicantly better as a conference during the Stock era too.
Also there were never four guaranteed losses on Andy's schedule. Our OOC was full of games against teams like akron, temple, SEMO and transitional SBC teams like FAU.
Not much difference. And I would argue the SBC had much more parity in the McCollum days. It was prime pickins when Stock showed up and inherited a motivated senior led team (full of McCollum's players) and ran the table. McCollum never won an outright championship, but neither did Stock. Both did manage to win co championships.
Stock is a little bit better of a coach than McCollum, but that isn't saying much. I don't know why we have to have such low standards here at MT.
Any school that takes itself seriously and wants to win would replace a coach who's managed to only beat 8 teams with a winning record over a 9 year period. Unbelievable.
Stock is a little bit better of a coach than McCollum, but that isn't saying much. I don't know why we have to have such low standards here at MT.
Any school that takes itself seriously and wants to win would replace a coach who's managed to only beat 8 teams with a winning record over a 9 year period. Unbelievable.
His record vs winning teams is irrelevant.
Many of these "winning" teams are BCS level behemoths. Vince Lombardi isn't going to take MTSU and beat many of these teams.
We go into many of those games with one hand tied behind our backs. I don't want to sell MT short, but there's a reality that a young CUSA program with budget issues, no tradition, and a middle of the pack fan base must face.
Stockstill's conference record - 10-4 in CUSA - 71%, 42-25 overall - 63%. These are the teams we need to be beating, and, for the most part, we are.
If you're operating under the assumption that it's just a simple matter to hire a coach who's going to win more than 63% of his conference games, history is not on your side.
Again, I challenge anyone to find a school that fired a coach that won more than 60% of conference games (for performance reasons, not NCAA or other troubles), and then hired a coach who actually won more.
Many of these "winning" teams are BCS level behemoths. Vince Lombardi isn't going to take MTSU and beat many of these teams.
We go into many of those games with one hand tied behind our backs. I don't want to sell MT short, but there's a reality that a young CUSA program with budget issues, no tradition, and a middle of the pack fan base must face.
Stockstill's conference record - 10-4 in CUSA - 71%, 42-25 overall - 63%. These are the teams we need to be beating, and, for the most part, we are.
If you're operating under the assumption that it's just a simple matter to hire a coach who's going to win more than 63% of his conference games, history is not on your side.
Again, I challenge anyone to find a school that fired a coach that won more than 60% of conference games (for performance reasons, not NCAA or other troubles), and then hired a coach who actually won more.
Are they though? Not trying to start something (and I certainly haven't dove deep into this) but I want to say the bulk of those winning teams were conference mates through the years. Maybe it's a split, but I think the majority of those teams would not be classified as BCS level programs, and many that are would be the likes of Maryland, Virginia, BYU and Minny - so not exactly the Alabama's and Florida's of the world.
If I get some time today I'd like to deep-dive into it. It certainly is a telling statistic, but if it's skewed than it definitely loses some merit.
Bottom line. Stock ain't going anywhere period until he loses bad like 3 years straight which he never has.
10-4 in CUSA ain't gonna get you fired. Y'all know that besides Rice, we're the only team that's beaten Marshall in the last 2 years. In fact, in conference play, we've still put more points on them than any other team this year. It's a let down year no doubt but let's be realistic here. We played in the SBC and C-USA. We are gonna face more teams with bad records than we will with good ones so those stats are skewed a bit.
The one factor that may matter is if the Season Tix sales keep going way down and attendance gets to be Andy Mac bad. Massaro might consider a move then. I think Stock is here for a while still whether folks like it or not.
10-4 in CUSA ain't gonna get you fired. Y'all know that besides Rice, we're the only team that's beaten Marshall in the last 2 years. In fact, in conference play, we've still put more points on them than any other team this year. It's a let down year no doubt but let's be realistic here. We played in the SBC and C-USA. We are gonna face more teams with bad records than we will with good ones so those stats are skewed a bit.
The one factor that may matter is if the Season Tix sales keep going way down and attendance gets to be Andy Mac bad. Massaro might consider a move then. I think Stock is here for a while still whether folks like it or not.
Without a doubt. That man is not going anywhere unless he wants to. The team is on the verge of being bowl eligible for the 3rd straight year. That has never happened. There's still an outside chance of winning 8 games this year (assuming a bowl win) for the 3rd straight year. That has never happened.
I get why people are upset, I really do. You look around and all you hear and see is about the successful programs. You want your team to mirror that. When it doesn't happen, you get upset. That's rational, sure. In the same token, you cannot simply expect MT's program to mirror a BCS level school overnight. It's gonna take time, and a lot of it. People get impatient, and i get that too. But you have to put things into perspective. Where is the program now versus 10 years ago? 20? 30? If things are progressing, than you have to take some solace in that. If things are not progressing as fast as you'd like, what alternative measures are they? Is firing the coach going to fix everything? There's a litany of possible solutions out there - you just have to think things through.
I think the record against winning teams is very relevant.
2014
Good Teams played - 4 teams - ass kicked in everyone
2013
Good Teams
BYU - Ass kicked
UNC - Ass Kicked
NT - Ass kicked
Navy - Ass Kicked
ECU - Beat at home, we scored late to make it closer than it really was
Marshall - only bright spot.
2012
Mcneese - Beat at home
ULM - Ass kicked at home
Miss State - Ass Kicked
ASU - for the championship, ass kicked.
Gtech - was a win but they were 6-7 so not a good team.
Please show me our progress over the last three years - we have beat one good team. And for the most part have been beat soundly. We really are not even competitive in the losses.
2014
Good Teams played - 4 teams - ass kicked in everyone
2013
Good Teams
BYU - Ass kicked
UNC - Ass Kicked
NT - Ass kicked
Navy - Ass Kicked
ECU - Beat at home, we scored late to make it closer than it really was
Marshall - only bright spot.
2012
Mcneese - Beat at home
ULM - Ass kicked at home
Miss State - Ass Kicked
ASU - for the championship, ass kicked.
Gtech - was a win but they were 6-7 so not a good team.
Please show me our progress over the last three years - we have beat one good team. And for the most part have been beat soundly. We really are not even competitive in the losses.
How many other "Middle" conference schools would meet your expectations? NONE !!!!!
Marshall has dominated our conference this year, period. Who else have they played of significance?
MT does have a winning percentage within our conference size.
It would be like asking 1A South Pittsburg (who is down this year, but is normally a winning program) to compete with Riverdale of Oakland on a regular basis.
When we were 1 AA we were average to better than average for many years. It went up and down, but overall average.
Well we moved up to 1A (FBS) if you will, and we were better than average in the Sunbelt.
Now we are in a little better conference and I'll be dad-gum if we ain't average here.
Better just takes a lot of time.
GO Raiders GO!!!
D-winns !!
This post was edited on 11/17 3:57 PM by D-winns
Marshall has dominated our conference this year, period. Who else have they played of significance?
MT does have a winning percentage within our conference size.
It would be like asking 1A South Pittsburg (who is down this year, but is normally a winning program) to compete with Riverdale of Oakland on a regular basis.
When we were 1 AA we were average to better than average for many years. It went up and down, but overall average.
Well we moved up to 1A (FBS) if you will, and we were better than average in the Sunbelt.
Now we are in a little better conference and I'll be dad-gum if we ain't average here.
Better just takes a lot of time.
GO Raiders GO!!!
D-winns !!
This post was edited on 11/17 3:57 PM by D-winns
I hope you realize that the 3 years youre complaining about constitute what's arguably the best 3 year stretch in MT football history.
2012 - 8-4 and played for a conference title.
2013 - 8-4 regular season, 4th bowl in our DI history
2014 - not done yet, but 2nd in the east, a winning record and a 2nd consecutive bowl trip appears likely.
I could go back further to 2010 if you want but I figured we got beat by everyone that year, so do we have to go back 5 years to find evidence? I feel like you are just fighting for your side of the argument.
Aside from 2009, can you honestly say any of the CRS teams are really that different?
Aside from 2009, can you honestly say any of the CRS teams are really that different?
I would say the 10-3 and 8-4 teams are pretty different from the 2-10 team or the 5-7 teams when were in scholarship jail.
in all seriousness, how is the 2012 team that went 8-4 but got steam rolled by ASU to finish the seasons any better than our 5-7 teams. I get they won a few more games but its a fine line with the poor competition we play.
We have two outlier years, 2009 and 2011.
We are both fans, I do love my school and know you do too. But I don't see any progress. We are 29-31 since our high point - our record is worse from our first 50 or so games. Our attendance is worse the last 5 years compared to the first 4 years. I just documented our success against winning teams - I think one game we won with most of them be games we were dominated in.
Please show me in any measurable s that show progression in CRS last 5 years compared to his first 4?
If we're cherrypicking stats from our high point I'll play too. We are 21-14 from our low point. Although if we win our bowl I could make a strong argument that we are in the middle of our high point. Do I wish we were better? Sure, but as Doug points out you can't find a team that has fired a coach with a winning conference record. I think too many of our fans have lost all perspective of where we are, where we have been and where we should be. They think saying they just want what's best justifies irrational comments. Our biggest problem IMO is our fans not our coaches. The lack of financial support. The lack of attendance. The spouting off on social media. All pathetic IMO. I personally think all this "coach needs to sell the program" stuff is crap too. Everybody likes to talk about Franklin at Vandy but I guess they all have amnesia because all the conversation his last year there was about how terrible attendance was. Coaches who are sucessful selling the program say and do the same things Stock does. The problem isn't Stock ain't selling. The problem is we got a bunch of alums have zero school pride. We hate our name. We hate our mascot. We hate our coaches and we're suppose to be the "good fans".I have honestly never seen anything like it. You would think we had back to back 4-8 seasons not back to back 8-4 seasons. No coaching change will fix it. I just hope we have a better class of alums coming our way. That is the only thing fix our stagnation.
I get that we have had some disappointments. And Saturday was inexplicable.
But the fact is, teams like ours, at this point in our development (budget, facility issues), have glass ceilings. If 8-4 ain't that ceiling, it's awful close.
Every once in a while, a team like a Marshall can have a magical year, but by and large, the best teams at our level win at a clip that's similar to what we've been winning at.
Marshall's last 4 years conference winning percentage is .66. Since we got to CUSA, we've been winning at a .71 clip.
I really just don't understand what your honest expectations for this program are. By any reasonable measure, Stock and MT football is doing well.
Did you know that if we win the next 2, we'll be assured of a 3rd consecutive winning season. Which we've never done at the FBS level and haven't done as a program since '94-'96.
I know the bumps in the road have been hard to take sometimes, but when you look at the bigger picture, we've done well as a program.
How exactly do we fix getting a "better class of alums coming our way"?
We can point to all sorts of statistics to support the half empty/half full conjectures about Coach Stocksill and company. Compelling discussions either way. Personally, I have legitimate concerns about the overall progress with the entire program since we have gone 1-A in 1999 (or 1995 when we announced to the world). We've also seen this anxiety with Kermit's coaching and staff too, before the NIT and NCAA play in games in Men's Basketball. The 8-36 record against winning opponents is bothersome, the stagnating fan base, the image that we left out to the world in the Navy Bowl game, the McNeese State loss, 2011 season. All that has been well documented at this point.
For me, its the New York Times College Football Fan Map that puts it all into clear awareness and perspective. MT is not among the 84 teams that are recognized as having a major fan base, major college football if you will and all of the marketing and visibility that goes with it. Yes, I know we have only been at this for 15 (or 19 years). But 15 or 19 years is long enough to garner something of a fan base--at least a top three reading in one's own zip code. Said it before, if we can't win the hearts of 37130, where else can we win? I think that along with a outright championship would soothe feelings greatly. No, we are not Michigan, Nebraska, Tennessee, Alabama, or Southern California. I get that! I think the move to 1-A was sold on the premise that we would be competitive with an SEC school (know we have 3 wins over Vanderbilt). But a top 25 win? Nada. Top 25 ranking? Nada. We received 1 or 2 votes at one time, that's it along with our 2001 and 2006 co-championships. The 2006 co-championship was with Andy Mac's players. So, we are at the ninth year with our head coach and no championship? We have one New Orleans Bowl win (over our now conference mate). That's our most significant signature moment as we close 15 years of 1-A play, as I see it. Granted, Georgia Tech and Maryland wins are big moments, but we should be winning some of those games all along. I see the points of frustrations easily.
The name change, mascot, et.al is well documented and certainly needs a serious review and action to make our university more prominent. I won't repeat all of the possibilities here, but will say we also need to examine the programs offered in the professional world (e.g. law, medicine, dental, veterinarian). That requires huge commitments of money and political clout that we don't currently have. But we need it nevertheless for the next generation.
What I am not seeing is overwhelming passion and desire to make these things possible within the next 15-25 years. Where will we be in 2026 (when today's first graders enter college), 2036 (when MT celebrates its 125th anniversary), or even 2061 (when MT celebrates 150). What are our leaders and alumni doing to make our university and athletic programs better for the years ahead. Yes we got a science building. but it took 30+ years to get. Yes we got parking garages, but that had been proposed as far back in the seventies, but got shelved several times. I could keep going. But when all of these things are considered, we start to question mission and vision. The things we have are largely as a result in catch up mode, rather than building a first rate athletic and academic program. Think it goes hand in hand.
The political situation 180 miles south on I-65 should serve as a warning of what 5-7 years of weak support can do for a football program. It's sad. The 1970's weren't great times for MT football and hope we don't slide back down the ladder of relevance. We have come too far, I think to turn the clock back. I think that is what some of us fear will happen as budget get trimmed, student enrollment levels, and changes happen with the NCAA regarding stipends/revenue et.al.
If one doesn't believe it can happen, one doesn't have to leave the State of Tennessee to see the results two former OVC scholarship football programs get dismantled (though one has returned recently and now has a refurbished 7,000 stadium). But scholarship football was a casualty of budget cuts for a few years that both universities are trying to rebuild from.
Again, where do we go from here? The goal for the football program was to be major college football like Tennessee and the SEC with a large contingent of fans in the Murfreesboro area. Or so I thought.
What Cristobal did at FIU was nothing short of a miracle. The overall numbers may not support it, but he took a TERRIBLE (0-12) FIU squad and eventually landed them in the Motor City Bowl against a solid Toledo team. Much like MTSU, this was FIU's first bowl game. They of course won the game though, something we couldn't do. Cristobal led a terrible FIU team to two bowl games. He had ONE bad season (like 3 or 4 wins) and was fired. Unfortunately the FIU AD followed it all up with a bum hire, but he showed his commitment to win was second to none. And we are talking FIU football here. They've had a team for what, 10-15 years, and have higher standards than we do?
No wonder they just kicked our ass.
Also, Cristobal. Another great coach and name who could and would come here and likely do very well. I'm not saying Stock is a bad coach but I really do feel like our fans sell us short and settle for mediocrity way too often. There are so many young talented coaches out there just itching for a head coaching job to prove themselves. If Ark. St. can land Freeze, Malzahn, Harsin (should I go on?) then I'm confident MT could find a talented a coach.
Or if Stock is the best you think we can do, then fine. Good luck with that
Actually GT went 7-7. They played FSU for the ACC championship and beat USC 21-7 in a bowl. Pretty good team we beat there.
Our current fans are all we have - whats interesting to me is I am not criticizing you personally for your opinion?
the bigger problem is we don't have enough fans and we are not getting any new fans and the biggest reason for this is our play on the field - so you can spin it anyway you want, Stock is not getting it done.
The game is changing, potential fan interest is changing, how students will choose who to root for is changing so fast we are stuck in the last century for how we will judge success.
Please stop, they were an average team that backed into a bowl under the strangest of circumstances. Yes we beat them and it was a nice win. But they were not a team with a winning record.
The bottom line for me is our program is not growing - we have fewer fans today than we did 5 years ago and not enough cash. The program is funded heavily by student fees - our enrollment is down. We are a program on student welfare. This is not sustainable in the future. The BRAA grows just a tad each year (maybe). We still after 17 years do not post how many season tickets we sell.
Forget about the wins and losses for a minutes and just look at who is going - its fewer folks. Now look forward 10 years, do you think under the current leadership its really going to generate different results that lead to a program that can support itself?
The game of big boy college FB has changed drastically since we made the jump, we are still acting like its 1999. Maybe we are powerless and will not be able to keep up, but it sure would be nice to understand the game plan on how we might grow the program or understand our identity or something. We are attacking this incrementally - we will never make it with this thought process.
Forget about the wins and losses for a minutes and just look at who is going - its fewer folks. Now look forward 10 years, do you think under the current leadership its really going to generate different results that lead to a program that can support itself?
The game of big boy college FB has changed drastically since we made the jump, we are still acting like its 1999. Maybe we are powerless and will not be able to keep up, but it sure would be nice to understand the game plan on how we might grow the program or understand our identity or something. We are attacking this incrementally - we will never make it with this thought process.
The "incremental" approach is a concern of mine, too. And it extends beyond the boundaries of a football stadium. Whatever we do today as a program, needs to be forward thinking far beyond a coach or whatever the team record happens to be in 2014. When we embarked on this 1-A journey some 19 years ago, officials painted a picture of a SEC or big time atmosphere. We haven't achieved that level yet, that is clear. The landscape of college athletics has changed significantly and will change more in the years ahead. Dr. Walker had it right about athletics being the "front porch" of the university as its a brand and perception issue. Our fan base and name recognition is not among the top 80, much less the top 25. I don't think top 80 is too much to ask out of 120 or so FBS schools? If it is, maybe we ought to reconsider our athletic and universities mission? FIU and FAU seem to get it from an institutional perspective. Virtually everything you see is less than 40 years in the making and they will have the base well established in another 15-25 years, while we struggle with identity issues and mediocrity as the 21st century progresses. Educational delivery is changing and we have to give ourselves the best opportunity to succeed.
Since the financial issue was brought up a few posts ago, I learned something yesterday that I thought was interesting. My sister and her family have 6 season tickets for Texas A&M. They are all Aggies. Bought tickets this year after the recent expansion of the stadium. They can not go to the LSU game Thanksgiving weekend, so they are trying to sell their tickets. They are in the endzone, second deck and face value per ticket is $120. I pay only slightly more than that for season tickets in the blue chair backs at Floyd! Kyle Field is always packed and ticket sales create a huge sum of money for the school. Am I saying we need to raise our ticket prices? Of course not. That would only shoo more folks away. However, I posted this just to show the gap between us and the "big boys".
Any team that beats any USC team like a drum in a bowl game is a good team. Have you ever thought about the fact that we kept them from having a winning season while we were a 28 point underdog? I was personally at that game and I've never had a better time as a Blue Raider fan. Never. Not even close. Last year with the Marshall win and this year with the WKU win but those games still don't compare with the GT win down there at Bobby Dodd Stadium.
Blueraidermike, if you're not happy, write Massaro a letter but no matter how you feel, Stock ain't going anywhere. It's entertainment to me. It's not my life nor does it define me. I enjoy it and I'm ride or die. I've sat through a lot of bad MT performances in my day and to be honest, Stock hasn't come close to the 2002-2005 era. We play much better teams than we did then in conference play. We played horrible teams in our conference back then with bad offenses and defenses and still lost. The FIU game was bad. Don't get me wrong here but still, when you weigh it all out, we are still in a pretty dang good position that a lot of teams would kill for.
If you don't want to come to the games or whatever, that's on you but I'm MT til I hit the dirt no matter what. I come to the games a lot of times, I'm alone. I don't care, I still get there. Some years we're awesome and some years we're not. We got a redshirt sophomore starting his first year replacing a 3 year starter. Did you think he was gonna be off the chain with no mistakes? He still has 2300 yards with 15 TD's. Pretty dang good for a first year. We lost T-Jeff and Kyles. We lost a lot of O-line from last year. We also lost a lot of Defensive leadership. We were gonna hit some speed bumps. We are still in the hunt of a 3rd straight winning season. We've never done that since we've been 1-a.
If you're bored, follow a P5 team. We are a mid major. It is what it is. If we win too much, we lose our coach and have to start over again. That's a 50/50 crapshoot. Not too many mid majors have made that work very well.
Marshall is great and all but if they get the G5 access bid and win it, Doc Holiday is gone and maybe gone to Florida. He coached at Florida and is probably on the radar. Marshall will have to rebuild then after losing Cato and a lot of other weapons. 50/50.
If you're rooting for a mid-major, it's a long haul. It could be much worse. Much much worse.
Blueraidermike, if you're not happy, write Massaro a letter but no matter how you feel, Stock ain't going anywhere. It's entertainment to me. It's not my life nor does it define me. I enjoy it and I'm ride or die. I've sat through a lot of bad MT performances in my day and to be honest, Stock hasn't come close to the 2002-2005 era. We play much better teams than we did then in conference play. We played horrible teams in our conference back then with bad offenses and defenses and still lost. The FIU game was bad. Don't get me wrong here but still, when you weigh it all out, we are still in a pretty dang good position that a lot of teams would kill for.
If you don't want to come to the games or whatever, that's on you but I'm MT til I hit the dirt no matter what. I come to the games a lot of times, I'm alone. I don't care, I still get there. Some years we're awesome and some years we're not. We got a redshirt sophomore starting his first year replacing a 3 year starter. Did you think he was gonna be off the chain with no mistakes? He still has 2300 yards with 15 TD's. Pretty dang good for a first year. We lost T-Jeff and Kyles. We lost a lot of O-line from last year. We also lost a lot of Defensive leadership. We were gonna hit some speed bumps. We are still in the hunt of a 3rd straight winning season. We've never done that since we've been 1-a.
If you're bored, follow a P5 team. We are a mid major. It is what it is. If we win too much, we lose our coach and have to start over again. That's a 50/50 crapshoot. Not too many mid majors have made that work very well.
Marshall is great and all but if they get the G5 access bid and win it, Doc Holiday is gone and maybe gone to Florida. He coached at Florida and is probably on the radar. Marshall will have to rebuild then after losing Cato and a lot of other weapons. 50/50.
If you're rooting for a mid-major, it's a long haul. It could be much worse. Much much worse.
JT, in all honesty you have missed the point I am making the last few weeks. I don't need to send CM a note because I have participated in a much deeper way in the past - no one listened to me then, and they wouldn't listen to me now. Despite this, I am true blue - I will root for us regardless.
That's what I'm saying. I can't worry about stuff I have no control over. I'm either a fan or not. I've tried to work with their marketing dept. for years since that's what I do for a living. I did pro bono work for them for a few years. No one listened to me. I eventually got tired of it and decided to just be a fan.
The guy that owns Raider's Tees that used to handle the Lightning's locker room. He got tired too. Now he just sells MT stuff in his showroom and goes to the games. The athletic dept. is what it is. They like things they way they are and I found out early that I was never gonna change anything so I now watch my team play and enjoy my life. It doesn't define my life.
The guy that owns Raider's Tees that used to handle the Lightning's locker room. He got tired too. Now he just sells MT stuff in his showroom and goes to the games. The athletic dept. is what it is. They like things they way they are and I found out early that I was never gonna change anything so I now watch my team play and enjoy my life. It doesn't define my life.
Mike,
I noticed that no one was able to answer your question, and the obvious reason is because they're unable to. There is no measurable basis of progression that can be documented.
Again, as I've stated to Doug in previous posts, although I personally like Coach Stock and admire him and his character, he has not shown the ability to advance our program beyond mediocrity. We are what we are; we're an extremely middle-of-the-road, mediocre football program. And, considering our status as the largest undergraduate university in the state, this is just not acceptable. Our diminishing attendance and fan base are a testiment to the fact that they're not happy with the direction of our program. They, in essence, have already voted on this issue.
I believe Coach Stock has taken this program as far as he can. Almost nine years worth of evidence is now before us and the results speak for themselves.
We're in line to have our 3rd consecutive winning season for the first time in about 20 years. We don't have the winning pedigree of Alabama - this is progress.
It really could be a lot worse. I'll stack the last 5 years record of Stock and MT up against any other non-BCS level school - you'll find that we're likely well above the average.
The problem is, if winning (which we are doing - and at almost an unprecedented rate for us historically) won't attract fans, what will?
We are what we are - a school with a small fan base, getting by on a small budget with mediocre facilities, small-time media exposure, with little to no tradition of success.
When you look at the obstacles we face, and then you see how successful we've been, it's hard to look at the results and say "UNACCEPTABLE".
Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, that's as far as a program like can reasonably be expected to go at the present state of development?
I look around at other non-BCS schools - most of them are struggling with the same things we are. And they don't have near the success we do.
Aside from Boise's miracle rise, I just don't see anyone else at our level of competition that has done significantly better than we have over the last several years, and done it on a consistent basis over the past 9 years. Every so often, teams ride the crest of a 2-3 year hot streak, but sooner or later, they're back down in the dumps.
Honestly, what are your expectations for this football program - because clearly, multiple winning seasons and bowl trips are not good enough for you.
Conference championships? Undefeated seasons? 30k+ season tickets sold? How many years are you giving a staff to accomplish this?
Because even if for some reason Nick Saban decided he loves sitting in traffic and that he must move to Mufreesboro, odds are - you're not getting what you would deem "acceptable".
This is the life of a mid-major football program. It's not for the faint of heart.
Doug,
For me, it is simply that we could do better with a hungry coach. We could also do worse.
Can we afford to keep giving 100k raises with declining attendance and .500 records?
The man makes a heck of a lot of money. I expect a lot more.
For me, it is simply that we could do better with a hungry coach. We could also do worse.
Can we afford to keep giving 100k raises with declining attendance and .500 records?
The man makes a heck of a lot of money. I expect a lot more.
Are we .500 though?
We're well above .500 since we joined CUSA. We're 21-14, at a .600 clip. In conference, we're 10-4, or .714.
Take out 2010, which looks like an aberration, and we're 37-24, or .610. Even with 2010, we're 39-34, .540.
Looking around the world of the non-BCS schools, I don't see a whole lot of coaches with that type of success. In fact, the majority of our peer level programs would kill to be in our shoes.
I just don't think it's as simple as add new, hungry coach, stir, and Viola! - out pops maybe 1 more win per year? Maybe?
History has shown that when a program fires a winning coach - it's much more difficult to hire another coach who wins at that same level than it appears to be. It's a rarity.
+1. Doug.
If we don't collapse this will be the best 3 year run in my lifetime and certainly since we went 1A. If someone looks at that says its not improvement than there is not anyone or anything that can change their mind. It is what it is. I don't know why I worry about it. They aren't convincing anybody that is paid to make a decision of this nonsense. So everything will be ok. I just hate that with the advent of Twitter recruits and players are subjected to what was once just message board silliness. Oh well I guess having irrational fans is a sign of growth. All the big schools have em.
If we don't collapse this will be the best 3 year run in my lifetime and certainly since we went 1A. If someone looks at that says its not improvement than there is not anyone or anything that can change their mind. It is what it is. I don't know why I worry about it. They aren't convincing anybody that is paid to make a decision of this nonsense. So everything will be ok. I just hate that with the advent of Twitter recruits and players are subjected to what was once just message board silliness. Oh well I guess having irrational fans is a sign of growth. All the big schools have em.
Only there is no growth. You guys are still missing the point.
I guess the only thing to do is watch the game on Saturday.
Recruiting has improved and is continuing to improve. This will lead to better records - slowly - and the only thing that will grow a fan base is winning more games - everything else is just a gimmick.
If the team wins 10 games next season then people will take notice and come out a little more.
If the team wins 8 games you won't see anymore people in the stands but if the team breaks into the top 25 then you will see some sell outs.
We've always operated under the assumption that wins = more attendance.
Well, that doesn't appear to be a strict rule, apparently.
It is concerning, and I don't have an answer for you there.
How do our season ticket prices compare to the SBC days? How many comp tickets we're we giving out back then?
Football attendance is down all over the country. For many, the home experience has exceeded the stadium experience (I'm one of these).
I'm frustrated by the dip in attendance even though i'm part of the problem (this is the first year I've not made a trip from Knoxville to M'Boro - i'm not protesting, I've just been busy).
Sure, Stock and co can have a little more personality - the team, coaches, and program overall is very bland, but I really don't think you can demand much more of them from an on-field perspective at this current point in our development as a program.
ULM is a school that comes to mind when you think of a school that has thumped some big boys but translation in the stands has been less than stellar.
I don't know what the special sauce is either but I do know that CUSA was down last year when we won 8 and we aren't looking good in bowl or televised games. Losing to FCS schools hasn't helped either.
IMO, Stock has missed or blown opportunities that have really, really hurt the program.
I don't know what the special sauce is either but I do know that CUSA was down last year when we won 8 and we aren't looking good in bowl or televised games. Losing to FCS schools hasn't helped either.
IMO, Stock has missed or blown opportunities that have really, really hurt the program.
I think you are basing that on facts not in evidence. The BRAA has grown in numbers of members. I was told that season tix were up but can't verify that. I know for a fact sponsorship is up. We have some major brands on board. These brands are buying in as well. Golden Flake is putting MT stickers on the bags in the Grocery Stores. They also put up an MT billboard by L.P. field. Mt. Dew is running multiple MT promo spots per hour on the radio. MT has twice the visibility we had 5 years ago. There is growth all over the place. Also I travel middle Tennessee for work and you see tons more hats, bumper stickers etc than you did just 5 years ago.
We had lack luster attendance this year but nothing to push the panic button about. Lots of factors at play. Attendance is an issue everywhere. TV is putting the hurt on lots venues. Even the NFL is having issues. This is our first year dealing with bad TV times 11:00 games etc. Plus our casual fan can watch us on TV now. We have never had to deal with that.Its growing pains. TV rev is making up for the attendance gap. Plus I bet we have record attendance next year.
This post was edited on 11/20 10:21 AM by TeKEraider
This post was edited on 11/20 10:23 AM by TeKEraider
We had lack luster attendance this year but nothing to push the panic button about. Lots of factors at play. Attendance is an issue everywhere. TV is putting the hurt on lots venues. Even the NFL is having issues. This is our first year dealing with bad TV times 11:00 games etc. Plus our casual fan can watch us on TV now. We have never had to deal with that.Its growing pains. TV rev is making up for the attendance gap. Plus I bet we have record attendance next year.
This post was edited on 11/20 10:21 AM by TeKEraider
This post was edited on 11/20 10:23 AM by TeKEraider
You make a lot of good points.
The fact that we're on TV much more now, and how that would affect attendance - I never even thought about that.
Game times have been much less fan friendly than in the past (11am games? Game up against the Vols? Bad ideas).
20k going down to 18k could be for any # of reasons. It's not like it dropped to 13k.
I think that sometimes, the fans can be our own worst enemy. There's the air of negativity around the program that just isn't warranted and kind of perpetuates bad feelings - when in reality, we're doing ok - most people would have said we're in line for an 8-4/7-5 season at the beginning of the year. Well, here we are.
It's almost like a stock market panic - it just snowballs for no apparent reason.
Stock can do us all a lot of favors by winning out and winning the bowl game.
I agree that our record will be where most thought it would be. However, how we got there is what disturbs me. We have really laid a couple eggs this season. Without the wasted opportunities, we could have over achieved. It just seems like we are never able to get over that hump and do better than what we think. The FIU game was a microcosm of what has gone wrong the last couple years. Just gets frustrating year after year, same old stuff. I am proud of the job Stock has done since he has been here. Is it wrong to want more?
