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BASKETBALL 2018 Bad Boy Mowers Battle 4 Atlantis

We are disgustingly bad. Even worse than I thought. We will do well to win 5 Division 1 games this year. Getting run out of the gym by a terrible stanford team.

Absolutely not looking forward to the Ole Miss and WKU games this year. UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
 
It looks like our streak of games hitting a 3 will end. How many games had we made a three in a row?
 
It looks like our streak of games hitting a 3 will end. How many games had we made a three in a row?

Set play for Green took care of that.. although Hawthorne didn’t run the play right- down screen supposed to be at FT line not just hanging out not screening at the top of the key.. difference between a contested miss vs a wide open 3 pt attempt
 
What a pathetic performance throughout the whole tournament. That was embarrassing... I think we would have been better off playing in some crappy tournament somewhere not on TV instead of having our new style of basketball on display in front of the entire country.
 
Why does crump start over Johnson? Geez

My guess is you need a player to sub for Green/Sims that is capable of scoring.. Johnson & Jr fit that role better than Crump..

I’d be more concerned if Crump were getting the lions share of minutes.. since he’s not playing more than Johnson or Jr I don’t worry about the start personally..

Sims was MIA tonight..
 
My guess is you need a player to sub for Green/Sims that is capable of scoring.. Johnson & Jr fit that role better than Crump..

I’d be more concerned if Crump were getting the lions share of minutes.. since he’s not playing more than Johnson or Jr I don’t worry about the start personally..

Sims was MIA tonight..

I think you are right on your observations there...
 
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FIU could beat Stanford. That was the worst looking power conference team I've ever seen. Stanford will finish last in the Pac 12. If anyone in that league is worse than them I don't want to see them play.

Getting to seven might be generous. This looks more like Randy Weil's 5-win team.
 
So 0-3 for this tournament. All 3 losses by double digits. Leaving the tournament with many more questions than answers.

Trying to think of some positives and find the silver lining. Not coming up with anything.
 
Positives: the guys play loose and shoot with ease.

Negatives: the guys are lost on defense and set offense
 
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So 0-3 for this tournament. All 3 losses by double digits. Leaving the tournament with many more questions than answers.

Trying to think of some positives and find the silver lining. Not coming up with anything.

You’re a glass completely empty kinda guy so it’s really not surprising...

Going into this tourney no one expected anything other than 3 losses.. although Stanford is a bad team as well..

Biggest takeaway is that a consistent 2nd scorer has to emerge on the perimeter.. we’ve seen moments from Sims & Johnson but it’s too easy for defenses to overplay and hedge on Green without another scorer.. the defense sags and packs further in as well... having another scorer will open up the spacing for Scurry, Hawthorne, & Gamble to operate as well.. it’s up to the guards to emerge in that regard and stop looking at Green alone to carry the outside shooting..

I viewed this tourney as a team building experience- play some games to get more experience, have the team continue to bond with a ton of off court opportunities etc.. the way this team plays hard it’s seems they care and that’s certainly a positive. Hawthorne’s energy in particular is great.. Just need the light to come on for someone other than Green in the shooting/scoring department.
 
So 0-3 for this tournament. All 3 losses by double digits. Leaving the tournament with many more questions than answers.

Trying to think of some positives and find the silver lining. Not coming up with anything.

You’re a glass completely empty kinda guy so it’s really not surprising...

Going into this tourney no one expected anything other than 3 losses.. although Stanford is a bad team as well..

Biggest takeaway is that a consistent 2nd scorer has to emerge on the perimeter.. we’ve seen moments from Sims & Johnson but it’s too easy for defenses to overplay and hedge on Green without another scorer.. the defense sags and packs further in as well... having another scorer will open up the spacing for Scurry, Hawthorne, & Gamble to operate as well.. it’s up to the guards to emerge in that regard and stop looking at Green alone to carry the outside shooting..

I viewed this tourney as a team building experience- play some games to get more experience, have the team continue to bond with a ton of off court opportunities etc.. the way this team plays hard it’s seems they care and that’s certainly a positive. Hawthorne’s energy in particular is great.. Just need the light to come on for someone other than Green in the shooting/scoring department.

And the scorer will have to come from the F guards. They all can drive to the basket but none of them have show a 3 point shot. And until they do Surry, Gamble and Hawthorne will have little room to operate.
 
You’re a glass completely empty kinda guy so it’s really not surprising...

Going into this tourney no one expected anything other than 3 losses.. although Stanford is a bad team as well..

Biggest takeaway is that a consistent 2nd scorer has to emerge on the perimeter.. we’ve seen moments from Sims & Johnson but it’s too easy for defenses to overplay and hedge on Green without another scorer.. the defense sags and packs further in as well... having another scorer will open up the spacing for Scurry, Hawthorne, & Gamble to operate as well.. it’s up to the guards to emerge in that regard and stop looking at Green alone to carry the outside shooting..

I viewed this tourney as a team building experience- play some games to get more experience, have the team continue to bond with a ton of off court opportunities etc.. the way this team plays hard it’s seems they care and that’s certainly a positive. Hawthorne’s energy in particular is great.. Just need the light to come on for someone other than Green in the shooting/scoring department.


If only we had Antwan Johnson. He's the epitome of what you're describing we need. He better have been doing some real bad. and I mean REAL bad. Like moving Kilos of cocaine.
 
I think if we would have gotten a waiver for Butler this would be a different team. He shot 45% from three last year in JUCO. Start him instead of Crump. You lose like 4 inches in height, but 6'4" 215 is big enough to play the 3.
 
If only we had Antwan Johnson. He's the epitome of what you're describing we need. He better have been doing some real bad. and I mean REAL bad. Like moving Kilos of cocaine.

It was real bad...you keep referencing the guys who got kicked off, it was with very good reason. They were not simply using.
 
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I’ve been an avid active fan for 47 years. I’ve seen the good bad and ugly. I would never want my university to go as low as Stansbury what a reputation. We can win without being dirty. We have to we are not a blue blood they will be looking for us. Nick will be fine it’s easy to second guess everything. We r not going to be good this year. I know for sure at least 2of the freshmen we would have preferred to redshirt. That’s what we have to do on our level We are not going to be signing 4/5 stars very often. We must develop that takes time. I feel sure the sun will come up in the morning. There also is no bigger fan of the raiders than I. Go blue

If you are who I guess then I'm glad to see you're still on board as a supporter. For some reason I had the mistaken belief that you were more of a Davis fan than a MT fan. And just to let you know that although your businesses are 75 +/- miles from me I have bought from you and will continue to give you first shot should I be desirous of any of the items you carry. I believe in supporting businesses that promote my school.
 
It was real bad...you keep referencing the guys who got kicked off, it was with very good reason. They were not simply using.


Well, I'll give you my opinion on that, and it's probably not a very popular one.

If he was selling weed, I don't care. I believe it should be legal anyway, so it would be wrong of me to view him in a bad light for selling something I believe should be legal.

I hear he had guns also. Again, I don't care. As long as he is not threatening people with them, brandishing them in public, pistol whipping girls on the weekends, etc. Guns are legal in this country, and I'm assuming he owned guns that were not outlawed.

Probably not a popular opinion, but I really don't care about a handgun and some dime bags.
 
Well, I'll give you my opinion on that, and it's probably not a very popular one.

If he was selling weed, I don't care. I believe it should be legal anyway, so it would be wrong of me to view him in a bad light for selling something I believe should be legal.

I hear he had guns also. Again, I don't care. As long as he is not threatening people with them, brandishing them in public, pistol whipping girls on the weekends, etc. Guns are legal in this country, and I'm assuming he owned guns that were not outlawed.

Probably not a popular opinion, but I really don't care about a handgun and some dime bags.

Its worse...I will leave it at that.
 
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Well that's very strange. If it's worse, there had to be evidence. You can't kick a guy off the team because you THINK he might be selling cocaine or something of that nature. That's a very serious accusation that requires evidence.

If there was evidence, wouldn't the law be involved? We would have heard something if so.

Now he's at Buffalo and all is peachy?

I really hope he wasn't kicked off the team for hearsay. Because it's sure starting to sound like that, and that's a damning (and shitty) precedent to set.
 
Its worse...I will leave it at that.

You and some others have access to information I don't and I truly want to accept your conclusion. But, I am old enough to remember black players being dismissed for asking the wrong girl out. Additionally, we can agree that public opinion on pot is rapidly changing, whether we like it or not. What I am saying that what you say is "worse" is quite possibly open to opinion.
All that said; It's very hard to believe this violation was as egregious as you imply and yet there were no criminal charges which we all know would have found their way into the media. It shouldn't be hard to understand why sWiley and others, myself included, have unanswered questions about the dismissals.
 
I do not like the mindset that if you think something SHOULD be legal it means it is okay to do. Just because you think something should be legal does not make it legal. I happen to agree marijuana should be legal for adults to use, but that does not mean I am going to sell/use it and expect no consequences if I get caught. The people with decision power thought whatever they did was bad enough to dismiss them and those are the only people's opinions that really matter in this case. Arguing questions whether something should or should not be legal or whether a violation of team rules is egregious enough to be kicked off is a matter of opinion and the two sides will likely not merge. I say we focus on what we can agree on and that is this team has a long way to go, we have all seen flashes of good, and we hope the 3 players sitting this year mixed with the incoming recruits will improve us dramatically next year.

Opinions are great and that is what these boards are for. There is nothing wrong with putting them on here and venting to other like-minded fans. I just feel we have had all of these arguments multiple times before and the same things were said previously. I think we have all of the pieces we need on campus, but 3 of those pieces are not eligible this year. The good is experience for the freshmen, the bad is what we saw in the Bahamas last week. As for me I am going to continue to show up to games and support this team no matter how bad it gets. The players cannot take this season off and wait for next year and neither am I.
 
You and some others have access to information I don't and I truly want to accept your conclusion. But, I am old enough to remember black players being dismissed for asking the wrong girl out. Additionally, we can agree that public opinion on pot is rapidly changing, whether we like it or not. What I am saying that what you say is "worse" is quite possibly open to opinion.
All that said; It's very hard to believe this violation was as egregious as you imply and yet there were no criminal charges which we all know would have found their way into the media. It shouldn't be hard to understand why sWiley and others, myself included, have unanswered questions about the dismissals.

The fact that the players (and their families/circles) departed MTSU without any further appeals/arbitration attempts/PR debacles/hints of injustice should be indicative as well.

The dismissals were warranted (not just weed), verified by decision makers (i.e not sWiley, you, me, or others here), and photographic (independent and self-incriminating) evidence was reviewed, the consequences just and everyone had the ability to move forward without further implications when it could've moved into legal arenas or worse. Best possible outcome for all.
 
The fact that the players (and their families/circles) departed MTSU without any further appeals/arbitration attempts/PR debacles/hints of injustice should be indicative as well.

The dismissals were warranted (not just weed), verified by decision makers (i.e not sWiley, you, me, or others here), and photographic (independent and self-incriminating) evidence was reviewed, the consequences just and everyone had the ability to move forward without further implications when it could've moved into legal arenas or worse. Best possible outcome for all.

You are coming pretty close to implicating several parties in a conspiracy to cover up criminal activity when you say "it could've moved into legal arenas or worse".
 
You are coming pretty close to implicating several parties in a conspiracy to cover up criminal activity when you say "it could've moved into legal arenas or worse".

Let it go Eliot Ness... One comment you don't believe anything or it's just a matter of opinion- the next comment we're down the FBI probe/conspiracy rabbit hole? C'mon man...
 
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Hey kingaling42, could you do me a favor? Since you know Coach McD pretty well, would you mind explaining in a brief summary what is Coach McD's system? As a fan, I get some of the basics. Being that I never formally played or was ever taught to play basketball, I really don't know a lot of the details or ins and outs of offensive and defensive philosophy. What I have learned is from watching MT basketball over the years. I've learned enough to be a mouthy fan, but I really don't know much of the various philosophies and approaches offensively and defensively. I had hoped to really pick up his system during the 3 games in 3 days of the tournament. Sadly, you know how that turned out. I couldn't tell what the heck they were supposed to be doing! Generally, I get that CNM wants to play fast with big, lengthy, and versatile guards. I gather he wants to play good defense with toughness, but what will that look like under CNM? What will the offense look like when successfully run under CNM? How does his approach set his team apart from team x running system xyz?

I'm really not asking for a 5 page report or anything, but I really would appreciate a brief rundown for me to pick up on.
 
My two cents:

Most all of us figured this was setting up to be rough and bumpy year. It really should come as no surprise that is exactly what is occurring after a few weeks of the season. I really don't see how it would be fair to place blame on CNM for the lack of success this year. Like others, I do hope to see some improvement in the team and players over the course of the year. I also hope to see some recruiting that might provide some hopeful positive signs for the upcoming seasons.

Right now, I'm trying to figure out the baseline for this team. Where are they in forming a team so that I have something to compare their performance at the end of the season. Currently, the players look pretty lost. To this point, it looks to me that much of their scoring has been on individual play. It's hasn't been pretty. They appear to be struggling to just move the ball with when faced with defensive pressure. The Asst-to-turnover ratio is indicative of a losing team. Hopefully that will improve as the season progresses. At this point, I long to see that extra pass show up in a game.

Of note, at any given time in a game there are 2 or 3 freshman and 1 sophomore on the floor with 1 at the most 2 upperclassman. That itself suggests a rough year of growth. The upside is that in a couple of years these players and team will likely become a force on the court.

Keeping things in perspective. While I instantly liked the energy and toughness Kermit demanded from his team from the first game, they were still not a dominant team. And that was against a lot less demanding schedule. Kermit's teams seemed to me to improve those first 2-3 years, but then his teams seemed stuck at average all the way out to about year 9 of his tenure. I know I started to want a coaching change around year 4 or 5, it was another long 4 years or so before Kermit took the next step with MT basketball.

Considering Kermit's long road to growth and success, waiting a couple of years to see if CNM can pick things up to a successful level seems pretty reasonable. Right now, I just don't have a read on how things will unfold over the next few years. CNM seems like a smart guy, and he seems like a good guy. I hope big things happen for him and MT basketball over the next few years. Through no real fault of his own, CNM is having to virtually start from scratch to simply fill out a roster.

I do like how CNM still scheduled a strong out of conference slate despite the huge rebuilding job. I do hope that is indicative of an attitude that CNM has about his expectations for MT basketball.
 
My two cents:

Most all of us figured this was setting up to be rough and bumpy year. It really should come as no surprise that is exactly what is occurring after a few weeks of the season. I really don't see how it would be fair to place blame on CNM for the lack of success this year. Like others, I do hope to see some improvement in the team and players over the course of the year. I also hope to see some recruiting that might provide some hopeful positive signs for the upcoming seasons.

Right now, I'm trying to figure out the baseline for this team. Where are they in forming a team so that I have something to compare their performance at the end of the season. Currently, the players look pretty lost. To this point, it looks to me that much of their scoring has been on individual play. It's hasn't been pretty. They appear to be struggling to just move the ball with when faced with defensive pressure. The Asst-to-turnover ratio is indicative of a losing team. Hopefully that will improve as the season progresses. At this point, I long to see that extra pass show up in a game.

Of note, at any given time in a game there are 2 or 3 freshman and 1 sophomore on the floor with 1 at the most 2 upperclassman. That itself suggests a rough year of growth. The upside is that in a couple of years these players and team will likely become a force on the court.

Keeping things in perspective. While I instantly liked the energy and toughness Kermit demanded from his team from the first game, they were still not a dominant team. And that was against a lot less demanding schedule. Kermit's teams seemed to me to improve those first 2-3 years, but then his teams seemed stuck at average all the way out to about year 9 of his tenure. I know I started to want a coaching change around year 4 or 5, it was another long 4 years or so before Kermit took the next step with MT basketball.

Considering Kermit's long road to growth and success, waiting a couple of years to see if CNM can pick things up to a successful level seems pretty reasonable. Right now, I just don't have a read on how things will unfold over the next few years. CNM seems like a smart guy, and he seems like a good guy. I hope big things happen for him and MT basketball over the next few years. Through no real fault of his own, CNM is having to virtually start from scratch to simply fill out a roster.

I do like how CNM still scheduled a strong out of conference slate despite the huge rebuilding job. I do hope that is indicative of an attitude that CNM has about his expectations for MT basketball.
 
Hey kingaling42, could you do me a favor? Since you know Coach McD pretty well, would you mind explaining in a brief summary what is Coach McD's system? As a fan, I get some of the basics. Being that I never formally played or was ever taught to play basketball, I really don't know a lot of the details or ins and outs of offensive and defensive philosophy. What I have learned is from watching MT basketball over the years. I've learned enough to be a mouthy fan, but I really don't know much of the various philosophies and approaches offensively and defensively. I had hoped to really pick up his system during the 3 games in 3 days of the tournament. Sadly, you know how that turned out. I couldn't tell what the heck they were supposed to be doing! Generally, I get that CNM wants to play fast with big, lengthy, and versatile guards. I gather he wants to play good defense with toughness, but what will that look like under CNM? What will the offense look like when successfully run under CNM? How does his approach set his team apart from team x running system xyz?

I'm really not asking for a 5 page report or anything, but I really would appreciate a brief rundown for me to pick up on.

First- I know CNM will gradually evolve from what he was doing at Asheville- simply because he will be able recruit some different players at MTSU. I will be interested just like you all to see how he's able to further adapt and bring in the types of players he wants over time.

Offensively- his preference has been as you've summarized in part. But specifically taking those versatile, long guards and being able to push pace- i.e. long guards can help rebound and push the ball up the court instead of waiting for an outlet pass.. but that's all opportunity driven- off of rebounds, steals, turnovers.. you'll see the assists rise and turnovers fall as these guys get more comfortable with each other and as the players learn how to run plays while also reading the defense.

In the half-court CNM has preferred similar formation sets that have a ton of options off of the same "shell"- quick hitting plays and high IQ/high team chemistry stuff.. as one example: a 3 or 4 guard/perimeter set with a big that can step out or is able to work the baseline/short corners- the motion looks all the same initially but various stuff happens- sometimes there's a pick/pop, pick/roll, backcut, duck in post for a big guard guarded by a small guard, or traditional zipper/exchange screens for a BIG in the post. CNM likes the similar formation sets because it's harder to scout and doesn't give away any tells about what play is coming. Right now there are some plays just not being executed that I recognize- especially with the BIGS needing to screen then either pop, roll, or open up based on reading the defense. Green is often the guy getting the screen and on the overplay when the BIG isn't reading it they're just clogging things up instead of rolling and getting easy shots/layups. So right now it looks like a mess.. in any set play all it takes is one guy to be out of position, a step late, make the wrong read and then the spacing is bad... the other guards are getting open looks that they're passing up on in some sets.. through time CNM will expect guys to take/make those shots and that'll make the defensive hesitant to overplay one guy..

Late shot clock- he'll expect a playmaker to make a play probably with high ball screen/3 low or flatten all 4 guys to the baseline with some set screen/movement. Overall CNM will expect these guys to play ball within the sets and he'll allow them to make reads on the defense accordingly- not just be robots who go from point A to point B- you see that right now with some guys not taking opportunities to slip, roll, or pop because they're running "the play" or not confident.

Hopefully that makes sense as it's hard to describe through words without drawing up plays I know they're trying to run right now...

Situational: CNM really likes situational sets though- specialized plays for sideline/underneath OOB plays. He'll have a bunch of specialized plays but generally will use only in situations- late game, end of half.. opts for 2 for 1 possessions at the end of halves..

Defense- CNM has always played the style of defense that fits his players and based on scouting the other team.. he'll show a lot of different looks as you saw in the Bahamas and it was on display in that UVA & Butler game when they battled back in the first halves- the defense changed from man-man to that halfcourt 1-2-1-1 and then the 2-3 zone.. you've got to have depth and some studs to rely on man-man due the fouls committed and the "freedom of movement" emphasis.. the 1-2-1-1 has Syracuse tendencies- long armed point and front wings to force the offense to throw slow lobbed passes and prevent quick direct passes that will eat up any zone D. Emphasis on active hands and getting a lot of deflections (which I'm sure the staff is charting).. depth will be the biggest key here as you can only switch to man-man if you're not in foul trouble.. you won't see any packline stuff on the 2-3 zone daring teams to shoot- he'll expect those guys to be in position to help then close out on shooters, active hands, hands up..

Not being familiar with CKD's offense was it more robotic execution/play oriented?

Some coaches run a ton of plays that require high execution. I played for Randy Wiel at Asheville for 1 year and he was from that Carolina mold where you have a ton of plays and are expected to execute because the defense knew what was coming. Then Eddie Biedenbach came during my last 3 years and we ran the "UCLA" 4 around 1 sets which was a shell formation with a ton of set play options.. in my experience you could see why Dean Smith didn't play freshmen- too many damn plays to know what you were doing without enough time...
 
Appreciate that insight king. Two questions.

1. That 1-2-1-1 looks an awful lot like a less trap intensive (one might say softer) version of the 1-3-1 we ran under Kermit. What is the purpose? Is it to create turnovers or just provide a different look for the opposing team (perhaps to slow them down)?

2. So, we've heard a lot about how he likes big guards. You mentioned in more specificity how he likes to utilize those guards, but I'm curious how did this roster/lineup work at Asheville when you guys had to go up against bigger and stronger teams? Aside from the problems on the offensive end we are getting absolutely abused so far by teams that have big PF or a C. We saw some of those bigs in the Bahamas who don't get a lot of minutes or score many points just feast on us. And in C-USA most of the better teams have elite play at both the SM and PF positions. We're really going to struggle defensively in conference this year, because when you look at teams like Western, ODU, La Tech, UAB and others they have 6'8 and 6'9" guys that are going to wear us out inside and get a lot of second chance points by out rebounding us. So, just curious how this is supposed to work in a league that values that PF position.
 
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First- I know CNM will gradually evolve from what he was doing at Asheville- simply because he will be able recruit some different players at MTSU. I will be interested just like you all to see how he's able to further adapt and bring in the types of players he wants over time.

Offensively- his preference has been as you've summarized in part. But specifically taking those versatile, long guards and being able to push pace- i.e. long guards can help rebound and push the ball up the court instead of waiting for an outlet pass.. but that's all opportunity driven- off of rebounds, steals, turnovers.. you'll see the assists rise and turnovers fall as these guys get more comfortable with each other and as the players learn how to run plays while also reading the defense.

In the half-court CNM has preferred similar formation sets that have a ton of options off of the same "shell"- quick hitting plays and high IQ/high team chemistry stuff.. as one example: a 3 or 4 guard/perimeter set with a big that can step out or is able to work the baseline/short corners- the motion looks all the same initially but various stuff happens- sometimes there's a pick/pop, pick/roll, backcut, duck in post for a big guard guarded by a small guard, or traditional zipper/exchange screens for a BIG in the post. CNM likes the similar formation sets because it's harder to scout and doesn't give away any tells about what play is coming. Right now there are some plays just not being executed that I recognize- especially with the BIGS needing to screen then either pop, roll, or open up based on reading the defense. Green is often the guy getting the screen and on the overplay when the BIG isn't reading it they're just clogging things up instead of rolling and getting easy shots/layups. So right now it looks like a mess.. in any set play all it takes is one guy to be out of position, a step late, make the wrong read and then the spacing is bad... the other guards are getting open looks that they're passing up on in some sets.. through time CNM will expect guys to take/make those shots and that'll make the defensive hesitant to overplay one guy..

Late shot clock- he'll expect a playmaker to make a play probably with high ball screen/3 low or flatten all 4 guys to the baseline with some set screen/movement. Overall CNM will expect these guys to play ball within the sets and he'll allow them to make reads on the defense accordingly- not just be robots who go from point A to point B- you see that right now with some guys not taking opportunities to slip, roll, or pop because they're running "the play" or not confident.

Hopefully that makes sense as it's hard to describe through words without drawing up plays I know they're trying to run right now...

Situational: CNM really likes situational sets though- specialized plays for sideline/underneath OOB plays. He'll have a bunch of specialized plays but generally will use only in situations- late game, end of half.. opts for 2 for 1 possessions at the end of halves..

Defense- CNM has always played the style of defense that fits his players and based on scouting the other team.. he'll show a lot of different looks as you saw in the Bahamas and it was on display in that UVA & Butler game when they battled back in the first halves- the defense changed from man-man to that halfcourt 1-2-1-1 and then the 2-3 zone.. you've got to have depth and some studs to rely on man-man due the fouls committed and the "freedom of movement" emphasis.. the 1-2-1-1 has Syracuse tendencies- long armed point and front wings to force the offense to throw slow lobbed passes and prevent quick direct passes that will eat up any zone D. Emphasis on active hands and getting a lot of deflections (which I'm sure the staff is charting).. depth will be the biggest key here as you can only switch to man-man if you're not in foul trouble.. you won't see any packline stuff on the 2-3 zone daring teams to shoot- he'll expect those guys to be in position to help then close out on shooters, active hands, hands up..

Not being familiar with CKD's offense was it more robotic execution/play oriented?

Some coaches run a ton of plays that require high execution. I played for Randy Wiel at Asheville for 1 year and he was from that Carolina mold where you have a ton of plays and are expected to execute because the defense knew what was coming. Then Eddie Biedenbach came during my last 3 years and we ran the "UCLA" 4 around 1 sets which was a shell formation with a ton of set play options.. in my experience you could see why Dean Smith didn't play freshmen- too many damn plays to know what you were doing without enough time...

Kingaling42, Thank you. Seriously, I really do appreciate you taking the time to explain the details and what CNM is trying to do with the team on the floor. I think I saw the team attempt to do some of what you described in the tournament. Of course their inexperience and lack of chemistry was not helping in them demonstrating things consistently.

I suspected, and you seem to be alluding to CNM wanting a high IQ type team. With a high IQ high bball IQ team, it will definitely take a bunch of new guys some time to learn and implement the system. Not only is it a bunch of new guys, it's a whole team having to learn the system. I could be way off, but I have speculated a few times the last week or two that CNM is trying to install a type of offensive system that is not all that dissimilar from Rick Byrd's offense at Belmont. Examples I refer to with Rick Byrd are smart high IQ players who all can shoot accurately from anywhere on the floor. Precision passing. If a defenses overplays you, they get burned with all the backcuts, etc.

It looks like and sounds like CNM has a solid defensive approach specifically with mixing up defenses to keep offenses from getting in a rhythm. It seems like CNM might focus a little more on forcing turnovers with long arms and hands in the passing lanes.

I do share some of the concerns some others have expressed about size in the frontcourt. I'm assuming that lack of size this year is just because of the roster debacle and few recruits left late in the process. There is no doubt having long and versatile guards with that good size is a real nice presence on the court.

Back in MT days in the OVC and even when Coach Wiel arrived, it was fairly normal for MT and fellow conference teams to have those smaller rosters. Teams competed for and won conference championships with small quick PGs, 6-1 and 6-2 SGs, 6-3 to 6-6 SFs and PFs, and a 6-8 post player. While that worked fine in conference play, it did not work out so well out of conference vs quality teams or come March tournament time. Over the years as MT progressed to C-USA, the team makeup is a completely different animal in order to compete for conf championships and postseason success. Same goes for quality scheduling out of conference. Is recruiting big strong physical frontcourt players in CNM wheelhouse? Has CNM had success in recruiting good frontcourt size over the years?
 
Appreciate that insight king. Two questions.

1. That 1-2-1-1 looks an awful lot like a less trap intensive (one might say softer) version of the 1-3-1 we ran under Kermit. What is the purpose? Is it to create turnovers or just provide a different look for the opposing team (perhaps to slow them down)?

2. So, we've heard a lot about how he likes big guards. You mentioned in more specificity how he likes to utilize those guards, but I'm curious how did this roster/lineup work at Asheville when you guys had to go up against bigger and stronger teams? Aside from the problems on the offensive end we are getting absolutely abused so far by teams that have big PF or a C. We saw some of those bigs in the Bahamas who don't get a lot of minutes or score many points just feast on us. And in C-USA most of the better teams have elite play at both the SM and PF positions. We're really going to struggle defensively in conference this year, because when you look at teams like Western, ODU, La Tech, UAB and others they have 6'8 and 6'9" guys that are going to wear us out inside and get a lot of second chance points by out rebounding us. So, just curious how this is supposed to work in a league that values that PF position.

You’re right about the 1-2-1-1 in that it is not designed to trap per se- some trap opportunities if guys get in the ‘coffin’ corners but mostly to slow teams down/give different look.. but when it is active it can generate a lot of steals and transition opportunities.. CNM likes to show varying looks on D just to change pace and not let teams/players get comfortable on offense.. he’ll implement full court pressure that will have trap/havoc looks- but with this team I’m guessing that’ll be limited due to personnel/depth..

So far as the Avl lineups- that PF/SF type player is something Avl had with kids 6’4”-6’6” that were converted guards.. think of athletic but taller running back build- thick legs, strong but some ball skills.. CNM played his best lineup and often that meant bringing in a 6’9” less mobile guy for limited spells.. team rebounding concepts and try to play at high pace to tire out other teams BIGs.. it worked fine in conference obviously.. CNM isn’t going to go long term with small ball but I don’t see him wanting BIGS that have limited mobility either.. I think at MTSU he can get skilled BIGs.. one of his mentors loved 7-footers and CNM coached 7’7” Kenny George so he knows you can replicate height but he’s not going to use too many scholarships on projects..

That’s what I’m most interested in seeing with future recruiting and asking him about at some point (I try not to talk b-ball unless he brings it up during season).. if he mirrors his recruiting while at Avl you’ll see the staff get in on top level recruits early- and with diamonds in the rough before they’re on everyone else’s radar and have rapport/relationships in place should they develop.. I think you’ll see more Draymond Green types than Steven Adams if that makes sense
 
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To answer the question about CKD, I'll take a stab at it. Please take my observations with a grain of salt as fan telling you what I would see from the stands. I think some plays, particularly set plays, CKD wanted exact execution as assigned. That was sort of CKD in total really. As you may know, he was a defense first coach. It didn't matter how good a player's offense may have been, they weren't on the floor if they did not play intense rigorous physical defense. He did not tolerate any defensive breakdowns.

On offense, I think CKD was pretty exacting on players for certain roles. For instance, I don't think PGs typically had robotic or preset marks to hit on the court so much as it was adhering to the role of taking care of the ball, distributing the ball, no turnovers, and getting assists. Generally Kermit insisted on good ball movement with good motion or off ball movement. I know Kermit really liked to swing the ball, especially reversing the ball around the perimeter. Generally I think he wanted paint touches and ball movement side-to-side-to-side to work the opponents defense, create the open shot, get that extra pass, and shoot the higher % after the side to side movement. There may be a technical term of which I'm unaware, but it seemed some players would probe defenses when the ball would move around the perimeter. You know, looking for that opening to drive the rack. I guess some of his called plays were to throw the ball into his stretch 4 player and let him go to work anyway they could usually with great success. Kermit made a nice living with his line of stretch 4 players.

I hope I described to some degree what his offense usually looked liked. Again, I may not have known all of the technical details or terminology, but as a fan I certainly recognized the look and flow of it from watching it for years.

Lastly, it was my observation that Kermit didn't care to try to run every team out of the gym with high scoring offense. Matter of fact, Kermit seemed just as happy and successful in grinding out games that may have gotten to the upper 50s or low 60s as a winning score. There were plenty of games his teams would score in the 80s if that benefited his team for the win.

Again, I hope that painted a picture of Kermit's offenses would typically look like.
 
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