BASKETBALL 2018 Bad Boy Mowers Battle 4 Atlantis

[Blueraider_Mike]

Not necessarily. It's all going to depend on the quality of this hire, and I will explain in just a moment. Personally, I believe the guy from UMBC - Ryan Odom - was a better fit culturally for MT, and I think everyone by now knows what happened there between Massaro and McPhee.

Very different circumstances. MT basketball has some clout now. We are getting into tournaments like Atlantis and the one next year because the profile of the program has been raised. We are in more recognizable basketball league now as well though it's not as good as it once was. All that to say is that McDevitt - in spite a difficult roster situation in year one - inherits a program with some name recognition and a culture of winning. The brand is out there now to influence the recruiting picture, so bottom line is that it's up to McDevitt to keep it going. He inherited a far better situation than Davis did when he got here.

While the brand is better - apparently not good enough to get us in the NCAA as an at-large. Not good enough for the recruits to stick after Davis left. Not good enough for a big season ticket base. Money was not pouring into the program.

But to say he inherited a better situation is not a compete read...did you look at the roster of 2002-03 I posted? Have you compared the OOC schedule of 2002-03 to this year.

Look, MT has never arrived. We are not nor never have competed with the high major teams, we are not in the same league has teams like VCU, Wichita State, Butler and others. We won 2 first round games over a 15 year tenure. We won some OOC games against good P5 in the last 5-6 years, but not top 25 teams.

We were trending up...but looking at our roster its evident that players were not committed to MT due to our brand.

 

[KenG84]

I agree that MT never was a force on the national stage at any point in our history. We just started to become a force in our own conference and that is where we need to get to first. You can probably count on one hand the amount of wins that had a national impact the entire time CKD was here.

 

[MT01]

While the brand is better - apparently not good enough to get us in the NCAA as an at-large. Not good enough for the recruits to stick after Davis left. Not good enough for a big season ticket base. Money was not pouring into the program.

But to say he inherited a better situation is not a compete read...did you look at the roster of 2002-03 I posted? Have you compared the OOC schedule of 2002-03 to this year.

Look, MT has never arrived. We are not nor never have competed with the high major teams, we are not in the same league has teams like VCU, Wichita State, Butler and others. We won 2 first round games over a 15 year tenure. We won some OOC games against good P5 in the last 5-6 years, but not top 25 teams.

We were trending up...but looking at our roster its evident that players were not committed to MT due to our brand.

You put a whole lot of words into my mouth I didn't say. If you honestly think Kermit inherited a better situation than Nick you are beyond delusional. Just recruiting budget alone is quadruple what it was then. We averaged about 800 people a game when Kermit took over. What is special about that roster in 2002? Nothing.Tommy Gunn was the only Division 1 caliber player on that team.

And to say we weren't competing with high majors is asinine. Not only were we competing with them we were beating blue bloods like Michigan State and UCLA. We beat Minnesota, Vanderbilt, Ole Miss and Tennessee. There are more. Can't recall them all but those are all high major teams. And while we didn't win them all we definitely competed and matched up pretty damn well. You are just talking out of your ass right now.

When Kermit took the job MT was the dregs of college basketball. When Nick takes over the program had some established credibility. If you can't see that then you are just arguing to be an ass and therefore I'm done with you. Go on the ignore list.

Oh and BTW, Nick himself said this when he decided to leave Asheville and cited it is one of the primary reasons he decided to leave his hometown. So, Kermit said it when he left. The new guys says it when he gets here, but we'll just go off what you think. Sounds rational.

 

[MT01]

And I will make one more final point on why the situation is most certainly better now. In 2002, we hired an assistant who had NCAA baggage as a former head coach. In 2018, we hired an established Division I head coach with a winning record. That alone tells you how far we've come.

 

[Blueraider_Mike]

And I will make one more final point on why the situation is most certainly better now. In 2002, we hired an assistant who had NCAA baggage as a former head coach. In 2018, we hired an established Division I head coach with a winning record. That alone tells you how far we've come.

This is a fair point but not the whole story.

My only issue is the unrealistic expectations.

I keep trying to address it with players and schedule and you keep going to net new points. Despite all that you’ve said the roster was better in 2002 than now, the schedule is harder and last years team wouldn’t have a better record. These are facts.

And calling me an ass doesn’t change the facts.

 

[kingaling42]

You put a whole lot of words into my mouth I didn't say....

Seems fair since you’ve been putting a whole lotta words into my mouth I didn’t say either.. evidently you don’t appreciate your own medicine...

So if you’ll actually listen- this is a mediocre team and CNM has adjustments to make no doubt- If you don’t see the things that have changed in game action then perhaps the game is too complex and my points will forever be lost on some.. fault for those who feel the need to assign it lies with both groups- it’s is a TEAM game after all..

CNM said a lot of things at his opening presser and other interviews based on what he feels and/or felt at the time.. take the comments into proper perspective at least- he hadn’t lost any recruits at that time, he didn’t have knowledge of off court issues with returning guys, he also wasn’t making overall guarantees or comments about how the team was going to look only 5-6 games into this first year.. that said YES he needs to adapt but you have to wonder if these players are capable.. systems aren’t overly complex but these players are turning the ball over on BASIC stuff- things you don’t expect HSers to do.. are they sloppy in practice? I dunno but it’s not a hard guess to think that the other players in practice can’t replicate what UVA or Butler or Belmont can do with their first string... how much game experience did these guys have prior to this season? Not a lot and those that have some experience didn’t have it TOGETHER.. that’s all I’m seeing- a team with limited talent that plays hards but not smart.. there are times you can only coach up players so much. What’s the alternative if the BIGs screw up- cuz I don’t see Massenburg coming in to do anything better.. I’m not trying to pick on any one player because they ALL have weaknesses so the point is there’s no depth to replace.. so mistakes don’t have a whole lot of consequences for this group..!

Many have noted that his system is totally different than CKDs so it’s obvious that the returning players likely don’t fit as well- the others are new and/or freshmen.. my point is give this team and staff time. Stop watching if that’s overly difficult and doesn’t line up with anyone’s need for instant gratification..

 

[Blueraider_Mike]

King

Watch out, you may get put on the ignore list and called names for discussing reality.

 

[MTOleBlue]

I swear you guys are acting like the sky is falling. Yes we are obviously not good. Let’s improve as the year goes along. I think we will. Some games we will play better than expected and others we will play worse. That’s how it goes. We look better (from just observation) on offense now even with the really limited depth chart. There’s plenty of room to improve and I’m excited to see what this season holds. Maybe we can take down Stanford tonight.

 

[MTFNBY5]

kingaling42: Since I personally don't know just what the "off court stuff" was I can't comment other than to ask: Are you positive Davis had looked the other way?, Were the players kicked off the first time for a "minor" offense?, Were any of the three given a 2nd chance? Were all three equally guilty of similar infractions?, at the same time? Was McDevitt looking for an excuse to free up scholarships or just make a statement? Wish I knew the answers.

MT01: You may think everyone knows what happened between Massaro and McPhee during the hiring process but I don't and I do my damnedest to keep up. (Hard living outside of The Boro with no acquaintances who keep up with MT inside info). IIRC it came down to Grensing and McDevitt but that's all I remember. Care to give a brief summary.

KenG84: ". . . CNM is already bringing in more highly touted 4 year players then [sic] CKD was ever able to do."
IIRC Davis brought in at least a couple of high school players in the 2.3 to 2.7 star range and , again IIRC, regardless of how it has turned out so far Massenburg somewhere was rated 3 stars. I have failed to see confirmation that any of the five (the three this year and the two next year) high schoolers McDevitt has signed so far other than Jackson are rated anywhere more than 2 star recruits. Additionally, Jackson had a couple of high major offers (probably because you can't coach size but regardless, an indicator), which may or may not have been withdrawn by the time he signed with MT. Even if we dismiss Davis' last class I find it hard to see that we are signing significantly more highly touted high schoolers. Time will tell but with only two to give next year, barring turnover, we should know next year at this time after McDevitt has has a full year and a half to recruit. The 2+ signees in the '19-'20 class will give us a clearer indication of McDevitt's recruiting prowess.

 

[kingaling42]

I’m not going to shed light on what you don’t know regarding the dismissals here- I’m not sure about CKDs knowledge but since folks in the community had knowledge I’d guess someone on the former staff was aware as well.. that’s not too far of a stretch.. from what I saw after the dismissals one of the players mom was going to tell all on Twitter but since that never happened it’s a fair assumption for you to understand actions were warranted.. I’d certainly remain quiet if it were my child and I was interested in them landing at another program. what I can say is it was not anything CNM wanted just to free up schollies.. I do know that for certain.

 

[MightyRaider]

King

Watch out, you may get put on the ignore list and called names for discussing reality.

I figured we could call him McDevitt’s apologist or fan boy. Wonder what his thoughts are on mike morrell? Can’t be happy getting thumped by manhattan and only putting up 38 points. I am sure even with the attrition of the roster unca fans are not pleased with the early results. Looks like freshman Devon baker has picked up morrell’s system quickly though! Maybe try the unca boards.

 

[MightyRaider]

MT01: You may think everyone knows what happened between Massaro and McPhee during the hiring process but I don't and I do my damnedest to keep up. (Hard living outside of The Boro with no acquaintances who keep up with MT inside info). IIRC it came down to Grensing and McDevitt but that's all I remember. Care to give a brief summary

I had heard Forbes was the clear front runner and offered the job and turned us down. Would have been an absolute home run if Massaro could have closed.

 

[Hop45]

So, to sum up the previous page and a half, YES our program is in much better shape than it was when Kermit arrived on the scene. However, the 2018-19 TEAM was decimated by Kermit's departure and the new recruits following him as well as a few guys not returning. The entire argument, in my opinion, is about 2 totally different things. One guy focusing on the overall program, while the other commenting on the current team. This years is going to suck, but I have seen some flashes of positive from the young guys against very good competition. Just be better at the end of this season than we are now. We all knew this was going to be a rough year.

 

[JohnDavidBlue]

I am truly expecting a corner to turn for this team in the next 2-3 years. I was calling Kermit's head by 10. Having been through some rough years post Stewart, I can wait. Kermit learned and changed during that time and Nick will too.

 

[MT01]

Seems fair since you’ve been putting a whole lotta words into my mouth I didn’t say either.. evidently you don’t appreciate your own medicine...

So if you’ll actually listen- this is a mediocre team and CNM has adjustments to make no doubt- If you don’t see the things that have changed in game action then perhaps the game is too complex and my points will forever be lost on some.. fault for those who feel the need to assign it lies with both groups- it’s is a TEAM game after all..

CNM said a lot of things at his opening presser and other interviews based on what he feels and/or felt at the time.. take the comments into proper perspective at least- he hadn’t lost any recruits at that time, he didn’t have knowledge of off court issues with returning guys, he also wasn’t making overall guarantees or comments about how the team was going to look only 5-6 games into this first year.. that said YES he needs to adapt but you have to wonder if these players are capable.. systems aren’t overly complex but these players are turning the ball over on BASIC stuff- things you don’t expect HSers to do.. are they sloppy in practice? I dunno but it’s not a hard guess to think that the other players in practice can’t replicate what UVA or Butler or Belmont can do with their first string... how much game experience did these guys have prior to this season? Not a lot and those that have some experience didn’t have it TOGETHER.. that’s all I’m seeing- a team with limited talent that plays hards but not smart.. there are times you can only coach up players so much. What’s the alternative if the BIGs screw up- cuz I don’t see Massenburg coming in to do anything better.. I’m not trying to pick on any one player because they ALL have weaknesses so the point is there’s no depth to replace.. so mistakes don’t have a whole lot of consequences for this group..!

Many have noted that his system is totally different than CKDs so it’s obvious that the returning players likely don’t fit as well- the others are new and/or freshmen.. my point is give this team and staff time. Stop watching if that’s overly difficult and doesn’t line up with anyone’s need for instant gratification..

I have only responded to one post you made. And I didn't put any words in your mouth. I simply responded to what you said. Those were my thoughts/words. I didn't insinuate anything or project anything you were saying or not saying.

Now, for your other comments. Agree about the dismissals. In fact, I have stated previously that the biggest loss in the offseason was losing A. Johnson. We are a completely different team right now with him on the floor. I even made the statement that he would thrive in this system.

As for everything else particularly the play and turnovers. It can and only will be fixed or won't be fixed by coaching. There is a lot of movement in Nick's offense. So, with that comes the need to have precision and discipline. That is not MT right now. That doesn't mean that won't change, and I have offered several times now that no one is levying judgment or expectations on him in year one. Only discussing what I/we see right now. So, why does everyone get so bent out of shape over the fact that we aren't very good right now and some people say hey we aren't very good right now and then discuss the reasons why? I don't get all the consternation.

With that I will share one final piece of information and move on. A couple of thoughts from Marshall and Western Ky fans to show that there are others who aren't wearing blue blinders and making objective observations. At the end of the day the only thing I have been saying is 1) we do not have the players to run what he wants to do right now 2) he's still trying to do it anyway 3) none of us know right now if he can get the type of players that he is going to need to do what he wants to do and still be successful in a high major environment and 4) what these guys say that...

Marshall Fan:
I also thought that MTSU hiring McDevitt was a reach somewhat. He looked decent as a Big South coach until you look at the schools and recruiting the Big South has. It only takes a few players at that kevel to win that conference.

WKCC Fan
Jury is still out on McDevitt of course...He (McDevitt) seems to follow the trend of recruiting 6'5" guys that can play multiple positions. This is fashionable with a lot of coaches these days. Harper tried this at WKU. Spoiler alert: it didn't work. Remains to be seen if he can land the kind of players that he needs to really compete.

 

[kingaling42]

I figured we could call him McDevitt’s apologist or fan boy. Wonder what his thoughts are on mike morrell? Can’t be happy getting thumped by manhattan and only putting up 38 points. I am sure even with the attrition of the roster unca fans are not pleased with the early results. Looks like freshman Devon baker has picked up morrell’s system quickly though! Maybe try the unca boards.

I’m biased of course as former teammate & close friend of Nick. That said I’ve ripped him and his teams on the UNCA board when it was appropriate- nothing I haven’t also said to him personally. Without game changing players what many are expecting is far too soon at this point.

FWIW- UNCA is turrible, might not win more than 1-2 Div1 games this year.. Morrell is a chump- Baker is thriving because the offense moves the ball 40 feet from the basket until there’s no time left on the shot clock- Baker can create his own shots so he’s producing. There’s not much to pick up.. He’s also running 14 miles each game.. thanks for inquiring!

 

[MightyRaider]

I’m biased of course as former teammate & close friend of Nick. That said I’ve ripped him and his teams on the UNCA board when it was appropriate- nothing I haven’t also said to him personally. Without game changing players what many are expecting is far too soon at this point.

FWIW- UNCA is turrible, might not win more than 1-2 Div1 games this year.. Morrell is a chump- Baker is thriving because the offense moves the ball 40 feet from the basket until there’s no time left on the shot clock- Baker can create his own shots so he’s producing. There’s not much to pick up.. He’s also running 14 miles each game.. thanks for inquiring!

It feels like unca is almost in the same situation as MTSU. Definitely understandable when it comes to your feelings on Nick but hope you can see my reservations like you have with Morrell. Appreciate your insight.

 

[SpaceRaider]

goblueraiders.com:

Hot-shooting Bulldogs down Raiders in Atlantis



Next Game:

vs. Stanford

11/23/2018 | 6:00 PM

ESPNU

94.9/95.1 FM, 100.5/101.9 FM, 1450 AM

LIVE STATS

LISTEN LIVE

WATCH LIVE

Stanford has lost its last two games by 18-16 points; Cardinal is even less experienced team than MT. Cardinal started 3 sophs, and 2 freshmen yesterday. Stanford 2 of 18 three's yesterday...

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college...rd-@-middle-tennessee-state.cfm/date/11-23-18

 

[Blueraider_Mike]

So Stanford is only favored by 4? So your saying we have a chance!

 

[kingaling42]

It feels like unca is almost in the same situation as MTSU. Definitely understandable when it comes to your feelings on Nick but hope you can see my reservations like you have with Morrell. Appreciate your insight.

I understand everyone wants the best for their team and trusting anyone new has its own challenges- most here are reasonable in their expectations for this season but not so much when it comes to live game action/occurrences- which is also understandable as fans..

Major difference is that Morrell was implicated by Bowen on day 1 in the NCAA recruitment/bribery case as well.. so my concerns are on the mans character more than his aptitude at this point.. you may or may not be happy with CNMs coaching but you’ll never have to worry about that stuff..

 

[sWiley]

I live on the wild side. I don't mind coaches pushing the envelope and doing what need's to be done to get players. I know, without reservation, that tons of college programs out there are cheating the rules, paying players, offering their families housing/jobs, and who knows what else. Hell, these types of impermissible benefits are even done at the high school level. You can't tell me it isn't happening in college too. It's wide-spread, too.

If CNM has to get a little dirty, then get after it dude. I honestly really don't care. For a school like MT to ever truly break through, it seems impossible to "do it the right way" - Just don't get carried away, and obviously don't get caught. You can't tell me Stansbury up north is doing things legit.

I want to win and win at all costs and go down swinging if we can't. With WKU bringing in the caliber of player that they are, 2 star players are not gonna do it anymore here at MT. We gotta start signing mostly 3 star players and get the occasional 4 star player through transfer.

 

[SpaceRaider]

 

[SpaceRaider]

excerpt:

...The Stanford Cardinal and the Middle Tennessee Blue Raiders will be matching up at Imperial Arena in college basketball activity on Friday.

Stanford enters this one at 2-3 on the season. The Cardinal opened up with a pair of wins versus Seattle and UNCW, then fell in succession to North Carolina 90-72, Wisconsin 62-46 and Florida 72-49.

In the Gators game, Stanford’s lead scorer was Cormac Ryan with 12 points, two rebounds and one assist—he was the only one in double-figures for the team. Josh Sharma was the top Stanford rebounder with five alongside six points.

Over on the Middle Tennessee side, they’re 3-3 on the year. The Raiders opened up with wins over Lees-McRae and Milligan, then fell to Belmont before taking out Charleston Southern and dropping another game to Virginia.

In the Butler game Thursday, MTSU lost 84-53. Topping the stat sheet for the Raiders in that one was James Hawthorne’s 11 points.

MTSU is 1-7 ATS in their last eight neutral-site games and 0-5 ATS in their last five overall. The Raiders are 0-5 ATS in their last five non-conference games and 1-4 ATS in their last five following an ATS loss.

Meanwhile, the Cardinal are 7-3-1 ATS in their last 11 overall and 1-7 ATS in their last eight neutral-site games. The under is 5-0 in Sanford's last five Friday games and 4-1 in their lst five overall.

Well, Stanford certainly hit a brick wall against Florida, mustering just 13 points in the first half to the Gators’ 32. Things got better from there, but it was never really a game at all, just like the Cardinal’s previous pair.

Middle Tennessee is having some offensive difficulties against these more talented teams as well, posting just 27 in the first half and 26 in the second versus Butler.....

 

[MTsumner92]

We have no depth at this point in time. Hopefully we can get some by the end of this season. We have a long way to go. We need shooters and we need them now. Anyone in the wings?

On another note I noticed we left the starters in til about 30 seconds left. That tells me we haven't gelled and they need all the p.t. they can get, which is to be expected at this point in the year. We have 5 new starters. I almost don't even recognize the team from last year. This is a brutal reality check.

 

[sWiley]

We might be the worst team in CUSA this year.

Not sure I've ever seen a first to worst in a basketball conference

 

[JohnDavidBlue]

2017 - 2018 VCU squad went 18 - 15 after Will Wade left having similar losses.

 

[sWiley]

Stanford is a 6.5 point favorite. We've yet to cover a spread this year. Will tonight be the night?

 

[abarnett]

I’ve been an avid active fan for 47 years. I’ve seen the good bad and ugly. I would never want my university to go as low as Stansbury what a reputation. We can win without being dirty. We have to we are not a blue blood they will be looking for us. Nick will be fine it’s easy to second guess everything. We r not going to be good this year. I know for sure at least 2of the freshmen we would have preferred to redshirt. That’s what we have to do on our level We are not going to be signing 4/5 stars very often. We must develop that takes time. I feel sure the sun will come up in the morning. There also is no bigger fan of the raiders than I. Go blue

 

[TrueBlue147]

I t

I’ve been an avid active fan for 47 years. I’ve seen the good bad and ugly. I would never want my university to go as low as Stansbury what a reputation. We can win without being dirty. We have to we are not a blue blood they will be looking for us. Nick will be fine it’s easy to second guess everything. We r not going to be good this year. I know for sure at least 2of the freshmen we would have preferred to redshirt. That’s what we have to do on our level We are not going to be signing 4/5 stars very often. We must develop that takes time. I feel sure the sun will come up in the morning. There also is no bigger fan of the raiders than I. Go blue

I think it depends on Stanford's style of play. If they play a style similar to Belmont or Butler we will get blown out again. I haven't seen them play this year so I have no idea. I just want to see us limit the turnovers this game.

 

[SpaceRaider]

 

[RaiderDawg78]

We might be the worst team in CUSA this year.

Not sure I've ever seen a first to worst in a basketball conference

2017 - 2018 VCU squad went 18 - 15 after Will Wade left having similar losses.

And Charleston Southern went from first to worst in 2015. It happens.

 

[MT01]

These two teams are made for each other. 14 combined turnovers in the first 12 minutes.

 

[SpaceRaider]

half dozen layups missed

 

[SpaceRaider]

this is a winnable game if we cut out the stupid turnovers and not finishing at the basket

 

[TrueBlue147]

They are overplaying us on defense we need to start slipping the ball screens and backdoor cutting.

 

[SpaceRaider]

 

[TrueBlue147]

This is an awful Stanford team. Mcdevitt has got to do something to get our guys open. We have no one that can create their own shot so he has to come up with something to get us somw shots.

 

[TrueBlue147]

McDevitt's offense is the problem. It gives us zero opportunities at a good look. This is a really bad Stanford team and we have had zero open looks. They are switching on the screens and we're not making them pay for it.

 

[TrueBlue147]

We have yet to hit a three this game. You're telling me McDevitt cant run a play to get a spot shooter like Green open for a three point shot?

 

[sWiley]

Stanford is a 6.5 point favorite. We've yet to cover a spread this year. Will tonight be the night?

Nope.