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jakeboldenbrp
sWiley said:
How many championships? Regular season? Tournament?

NIT appearances? NCAA appearances?
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No issue with you using facts and objectively proving your opinion as valid. It took KD 10 years to do the above and you're screaming at a HC that nearly did it year 5 and has a roster to do it this year.

sWiley said:
Hilarious if you think the players he brought in will actually come off the bench and do anything.
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Bookmarked. I'll prove this point when the season gets going.

sWiley said:
Tre Green is going to be a good player and taking a flyer on the Hall kid certainly seems worth it. J. Johnson plays so hard so it's hard not to like him but there's a clear ceiling there. Not much else excites me.
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Talk about "come off the bench this year and do anything". Bookmarked.

sWiley said:
Pretty much all the same starters except at the 5 position.
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You have 2 new starters in Lands and Mostafa. If you want to reinsert Weston as a third because he didn't play last year, further disproving your narrative this is the same team as last year.

I completely understand your viewpoint on the matter, genuinely. I don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment that he shouldn't be the coach here past year 3. But the constant goal post moving to compare him to Kermit Davis is ridiculous. It is CLEAR you have revisionist history on KD. It took him 10 years to get a "transfer POY superstar". AND it wasn't until LaRon Dendy that KD started to recruit JuCo/P4 heavily and started his 7 year tear before he took the Ole Miss job.

You are entitled to your opinion but you lose all credibility when you stand on a hypocritical basis. 10 years to win a conference championship. 10 years to get a SBC POY. 11 years to win 70% of games.

I want to win championships, I want to beat WKU, I want to be in the NCAAT. We haven't done those 3 things to my liking either. But it is so hard to empathize with your viewpoints when you literally just make stuff up and you're just mad enough to confirm your bias.
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BASKETBALL Secret Scrimmages

MidTennMtneer
ewglenn said:
I disagree with Wiley on a lot of things but I wouldn’t question his fandom. I also will agree with his stance on a contract extension.

CNM had a breakout year in 21-22 and has regressed in the following seasons. He has loaded this team to win now and I think it is reasonable for an AD to call it how it is.

CNM is doing what he needs to in order to win. I don’t blame him for it, but to say 20 wins and no postseason success is enough for an extension is terrible management. In business, if you take a huge risk, it better pay off. Coaching is no different. CNM took a chance and if doesn’t work he needs to go.
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I personally think in this lame duck year there shouldn't be a minimum for any extension. The year (and his previous years) should be measured in totality. Did he beat WKU? What was our RPI? Road wins? Attendance? Etc.

Granted I would've moved on already, but setting a minimum for a single year is asking for trouble and gives zero incentive for future.

I'd have minimums in a contract over rolling 3yr periods, such as minimum avg of 20-22 wins and no more than one losing season during the period.
But CM doesn't work that way.
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ewglenn
I disagree with Wiley on a lot of things but I wouldn’t question his fandom. I also will agree with his stance on a contract extension.

CNM had a breakout year in 21-22 and has regressed in the following seasons. He has loaded this team to win now and I think it is reasonable for an AD to call it how it is.

CNM is doing what he needs to in order to win. I don’t blame him for it, but to say 20 wins and no postseason success is enough for an extension is terrible management. In business, if you take a huge risk, it better pay off. Coaching is no different. CNM took a chance and if doesn’t work he needs to go.
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BASKETBALL Secret Scrimmages

M
sWiley said:
I remember a pack the house night vs. WKU a long time ago. Probably 15 years or so. Can't remember the specific occasion but I believe it had something to do with Dr. Walker. Just a crazy crowd and night, whole place was basically full.
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Most recent big crowd I remember was one of Kermit's last games. Winning the championship & beating WKU at home. Another great night.
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BASKETBALL Secret Scrimmages

sWiley
FranklinRaider315 said:
I want to get back to the type of crowds we had like the NIT Minnesota game. That was as loud as I’ve ever heard Murphy Center. What a night. 10,500+
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I remember a pack the house night vs. WKU a long time ago. Probably 15 years or so. Can't remember the specific occasion but I believe it had something to do with Dr. Walker. Just a crazy crowd and night, whole place was basically full.

Can we ever get back to that ?
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BASKETBALL Secret Scrimmages

sWiley
altshauf said:
Say what you want about Wiley’s points, but understand he has a great Blue Raider passion for the athletics programs. Don’t question his motivations. Frankly it’s not how I handle things, but I think we could use a few more like him. MT fans/alumni that truly hold people accountable for their choices. I think WKU has that, and that’s why they touch the gutter then get out of it.
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I appreciate it. I know I'm harsh and rub many the wrong way....but there's a reason. So many throughout our fan base, in my opinion, are non-vocal or just flat out too soft on these coaches/administrators. And that's fine if that's how people want to approach it. I understand for many this is just casual whatever, and it is for me too, but it's hard because of the incompetence that has festered for so long. Hard to believe it's been two decades (or more). I should just throw in the towel and walk away like so many others have....but I really do want to see MTSU succeed.

Definitely feels futile though. No support from the city or county, terrible leadership in Cope, incompetent board, and on and on. Did you see the Murfreesboro mayor, Shane McFarland, giving the "keys to the city" recently and welcoming UTK's baseball coach to Murfreesboro? Utterly despicable. MTSU is totally taken for granted, by every single person associated with it, from the local town to the president to the AD to the coaches.....does anyone truly care about it? Or is it all self-serving interests and taking care of your own skin?
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A
Say what you want about Wiley’s points, but understand he has a great Blue Raider passion for the athletics programs. Don’t question his motivations. Frankly it’s not how I handle things, but I think we could use a few more like him. MT fans/alumni that truly hold people accountable for their choices. I think WKU has that, and that’s why they touch the gutter then get out of it.
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FB RECRUITING MTSU is first in CUSA for recruiting

sWiley
MT01 said:
Fourth by average. When compared apples to apples I don't value more players. What matters is a) how good are the guys you have committed/signed and b) what's your staff's application and capability for development.

Mason needs time. No doubt. But let's not pretend he has the number one class right now. We can express appreciation and even hope for what he's doing on the trail - especially in state. That has me impressed. But let's not start putting lipstick on yet.
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Exactly. Average star rating is what matters if we're going to look at this objectively. I've never understood why teams with more recruits get a higher ranking even though average star rating is lower. So dumb.

High school recruiting has definitely improved for us. But how much of that is the tailwinds from having a new coaching staff + so many programs signing fewer HS players? By the sheer numbers our HS recruiting SHOULD improve since fewer HS players are looked at now by the big fish. They just let programs like us sort through it all and once the cream rises to the top...well....you know what happens.

G5 is now the Glorified JUCO 5.
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sWiley
MTFAN61 said:
I'm all for moving CNM along. Bottom line as much as many people like him as a person he just doesn't have the coaching chops for a top 10-13 basketball league. The one thing I will disagree on is I don't believe this administration has the "chops" to put a 25 game victory quota on him, plus a CUSA tourney championship, + an NCAA victory to come back as coach next year. When I stated 19-20 victories will probably save his job, that was looking from an administration perspective not my own personal feelings. However if you think the administration has put that high a quota on CNM this year to save his job I salute you. Personally I'm a bit pessimistic that degree of success will be needed for McPhee & Massaro to bring him back at season's end.
Whatever the outcome we'll likely know by next April.
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Ha, no. Those morons have probably already extended him before the season even started. I was simply stating my beliefs. We are entering year 7 after 6 years of nothing burgers. "If you ain't first, you're last"......Well, we've never been first with McDevitt.

It's time to be first or get the F out of dodge.
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FB RECRUITING MTSU is first in CUSA for recruiting

M
Fourth by average. When compared apples to apples I don't value more players. What matters is a) how good are the guys you have committed/signed and b) what's your staff's application and capability for development.

Mason needs time. No doubt. But let's not pretend he has the number one class right now. We can express appreciation and even hope for what he's doing on the trail - especially in state. That has me impressed. But let's not start putting lipstick on yet.
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BASKETBALL Secret Scrimmages

M
sWiley said:
How many championships? Regular season? Tournament?

NIT appearances? NCAA appearances?

Should have already been fired. Now he wants to load up with a super senior type of roster in desperation for a contract extension, future be damned. Won't matter anyway. Pretty much all the same starters except at the 5 position. Hilarious if you think the players he brought in will actually come off the bench and do anything. You really think last years leader in turnovers, from one of the worst D1 programs in the country (that's saying something), is actually going to help this team? There are a few good players I like on this team who I think would contribute to a championship, but not enough of them. Tre Green is going to be a good player and taking a flyer on the Hall kid certainly seems worth it. J. Johnson plays so hard so it's hard not to like him but there's a clear ceiling there. Not much else excites me.

Anyway, you're right. I don't like him and I don't believe he deserves to be the head coach here. Why should I favor him after we went through the worst 3 year period in our programs history after he was hired and he's done nothing but tread water since then. He can't win on the road and he's never been able to recruit well enough to do anything meaningful here. What's our record vs. WKU since he arrived?? (Genuine question, I have no idea what it is, but I bet it's not good)

Kermit brought in transfer after transfer and turned them into CUSA POY superstars along with stalwart role-players to surround them. Kermit took players with little to no hype and turned them into champions. He elevated his recruits. He did it over a nearly 10 year period and did it with several recruiting classes to prove it wasn't a fluke. That's what we need. And I don't think Kermit was some superstar coach either. He was above average with a knack for recruiting overlooked players.

We've had nothing of the sort for the last 6 years with McDevitt. It is so very clearly time to move on. We pay our head basketball coach very well here at MT and it's a shame the results we've been getting for said pay. McDevitt's teams are routinely outplayed and outcoached by staffs and programs who receive 1/3rd of his pay and have a quarter of our athletic budget......That pretty much never happened under Kermit (Because it shouldn't....)
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I'm all for moving CNM along. Bottom line as much as many people like him as a person he just doesn't have the coaching chops for a top 10-13 basketball league. The one thing I will disagree on is I don't believe this administration has the "chops" to put a 25 game victory quota on him, plus a CUSA tourney championship, + an NCAA victory to come back as coach next year. When I stated 19-20 victories will probably save his job, that was looking from an administration perspective not my own personal feelings. However if you think the administration has put that high a quota on CNM this year to save his job I salute you. Personally I'm a bit pessimistic that degree of success will be needed for McPhee & Massaro to bring him back at season's end.
Whatever the outcome we'll likely know by next April.
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BASKETBALL Secret Scrimmages

sWiley
jakeboldenbrp said:
That's 3 CUSA Tourney wins and 1 NCAAT win, so finish the regular season at least 21-10 (or 25-11 with a R32 exit in NCAAT = 70% win), and he still has to beg for his job back next year. You drive a tough athletic department Mr. Wiley.

Kermit won 70% of his games in six of his 16 season... and it took him 10 years to do it the first time... in the Sun Belt.

I can understand Kermit setting a standard for the MTSU program, and brand on his way out, but you're setting an unprecedented goal post for any mid-major not named Gonzaga. Mind you, in a significantly tougher CUSA than the Sun Belt that Kermit coached in his first 11 seasons.

In this same thread you say:

and


Do you want him to win 25+ this year or not? It's not gonna happen keeping "the same team as last year", as you say! It's not gonna happen picking up 2-3 HS freshman every year and waiting for him to develop them in 3 years when you want him fired one year removed from 19 and 26 win seasons.

Clearly I'm more optimistic than most, but this narrative of he needs to win 25+ to save his job is ridiculous. If he wins just 19 games this year he would be top 5 in CUSA in winning% in the last 4 years (assuming this entire league also wins 60% of their games), top 3 if you exclude SHSU and Liberty who played in the WAC in ASUN within the last 4 years.

I want to see this team succeed more than anyone, dare I say, more than you. But defending your rhetoric must be exhausting, but I get it -- You "hate to be so negative". At some point just say you don't like him because he doesn't win to your expectations. That is a far more reasonable take than the nonsense you're putting on this thread.
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How many championships? Regular season? Tournament?

NIT appearances? NCAA appearances?

Should have already been fired. Now he wants to load up with a super senior type of roster in desperation for a contract extension, future be damned. Won't matter anyway. Pretty much all the same starters except at the 5 position. Hilarious if you think the players he brought in will actually come off the bench and do anything. You really think last years leader in turnovers, from one of the worst D1 programs in the country (that's saying something), is actually going to help this team? There are a few good players I like on this team who I think would contribute to a championship, but not enough of them. Tre Green is going to be a good player and taking a flyer on the Hall kid certainly seems worth it. J. Johnson plays so hard so it's hard not to like him but there's a clear ceiling there. Not much else excites me.

Anyway, you're right. I don't like him and I don't believe he deserves to be the head coach here. Why should I favor him after we went through the worst 3 year period in our programs history after he was hired and he's done nothing but tread water since then. He can't win on the road and he's never been able to recruit well enough to do anything meaningful here. What's our record vs. WKU since he arrived?? (Genuine question, I have no idea what it is, but I bet it's not good)

Kermit brought in transfer after transfer and turned them into CUSA/SBC POY superstars along with stalwart role-players to surround them. Kermit took players with little to no hype and turned them into champions. He elevated his recruits. He did it over a nearly 10 year period and did it with several recruiting classes to prove it wasn't a fluke. That's what we need. And I don't think Kermit was some superstar coach either. He was above average with a knack for recruiting overlooked players.

We've had nothing of the sort for the last 6 years with McDevitt. It is so very clearly time to move on. We pay our head basketball coach very well here at MT and it's a shame the results we've been getting for said pay. McDevitt's teams are routinely outplayed and outcoached by staffs and programs who receive 1/3rd of his pay and have a quarter of our athletic budget......That pretty much never happened under Kermit (Because it shouldn't....)
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BASKETBALL Secret Scrimmages

M
MTFAN61 said:
I don't think we have to worry about too many in the fan base expecting an above average year. With what has been experienced in the past I think most would be surprised with a winning year.
31 regular season games this year. For CNM to lock in an extension believe he needs 19-20 regular season wins + make it to the CUSA tournament championship. That would give him at least 21-22 victories. From administration perspective they would pprobably consider that good enough to give at least 1 or 2 year extension on contract.
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And if that is the case why in the world is he still here? His contract was up. No buyout. Terrible record. This is just a wasted year when we need to be demonstrating to other leagues we have value in something other than track and tennis.
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