East Carolina, at home, in front of over 50,000, won it's sixth straight against ACC competition....
FOOTBALL Winning is the answer
- Thread starter SpaceRaider
- Start date
They've driven me to apathy.
For the first time since I became an MT student in 2003, I found myself struggling to get fired up for the season.
I already know the result of every season from now until something major changes - we're going 6-7 or 7-6 with a bowl loss and every big game (every rivalry, bowl, P5, early season matchup) will result in a loss, usually with us being non-competitive. I'll hear the same drivel about injuries, or we competed hard, or we made just a few mistakes. We'll win a few games against the dregs of the conference in November when no one is watching, allowing us to claim the all important "non-losing" season. Bowl Eligible! It's the same season, over and over again.
I keep trying to think of a reason to come to a game, or wear some MT gear, or even come here and participate in threads, or something/anything. Aside from my sense of duty as an alum, I can't think of a single reason.
The program isn't bad. It's just hopeless. They've lost me.
FWIW, I went to a Battle of Bristol party with about 20 people at one of the wife's friends houses in Morristown, kind of a housewarming/football get-together. I think we had about 8 MT alums there, and 1 UTk alum. The fans are there, there's just no reason for them to buy in.
For the first time since I became an MT student in 2003, I found myself struggling to get fired up for the season.
I already know the result of every season from now until something major changes - we're going 6-7 or 7-6 with a bowl loss and every big game (every rivalry, bowl, P5, early season matchup) will result in a loss, usually with us being non-competitive. I'll hear the same drivel about injuries, or we competed hard, or we made just a few mistakes. We'll win a few games against the dregs of the conference in November when no one is watching, allowing us to claim the all important "non-losing" season. Bowl Eligible! It's the same season, over and over again.
I keep trying to think of a reason to come to a game, or wear some MT gear, or even come here and participate in threads, or something/anything. Aside from my sense of duty as an alum, I can't think of a single reason.
The program isn't bad. It's just hopeless. They've lost me.
FWIW, I went to a Battle of Bristol party with about 20 people at one of the wife's friends houses in Morristown, kind of a housewarming/football get-together. I think we had about 8 MT alums there, and 1 UTk alum. The fans are there, there's just no reason for them to buy in.
Apathy is worse than anger. When folks stop caring, it's over.
Well said Doug. Hard for me to disagree there. I was more excited for this season than any others over the last 5 years just because we brought in Franklin and the rest of CUSA is as vulnerable as it's gonna be. If we were to ever win the conference, it would have been this year. The schedule even set up to potentially be undefeated with not a single top 25 opponents on the schedule.
And here we are only 2 weeks into the season already with a blowout loss and the season looking like every other before it
And here we are only 2 weeks into the season already with a blowout loss and the season looking like every other before it
Gentlemen, you are absolutely pathetic. One loss and the season is over? That tells me that you are only high times supporters. Yes, we did get embarrassed Saturday, but the season is far from over. We are at 500 for the year. That is not winning or loosing right now.
There was a lot of things that influenced the outcome of that game, a "D" end making an interception 4 feet from the QB, the best hands on the team muffing a punt,
un-characteristic fumbles and missed passes. These things are and will be corrected.
Now you can see the glass as half full or empty, but the true Blue fan is half full and getting fuller. You go ahead and support your big orange, but I predict they will end up with a record very similar or worse than ours by the end of the season.
Only a TRUE fan supports win, loose, or draw!!!
I'm TRUE BLUE now and always.
D-wins
There was a lot of things that influenced the outcome of that game, a "D" end making an interception 4 feet from the QB, the best hands on the team muffing a punt,
un-characteristic fumbles and missed passes. These things are and will be corrected.
Now you can see the glass as half full or empty, but the true Blue fan is half full and getting fuller. You go ahead and support your big orange, but I predict they will end up with a record very similar or worse than ours by the end of the season.
Only a TRUE fan supports win, loose, or draw!!!
I'm TRUE BLUE now and always.
D-wins
Outside of the Defensive end making that interception, the other things that make your list is what makes watching our program so infuriating . The fumbles, unsportsmanlike penalties, muffed punts are all basic fundamentals of the game. And it is not uncharacteristic because when we lose games we lose because of lack of discipline in the fundamentals most of the time. And sometimes we get lucky and win these games like Marshall last year. I get that the young guys will make mistakes. Garnett is a freshman, and he will learn from this game. I'm not done with the year because we still haven't played our conference schedule, but at some point our football program needs to learn how to play smarter if we want to have something special here.
It's acceptable to make youthful mistakes, if the player learns from them. It's far better to learn basics fundamentals and develop regimen in practice or scrimmage. When it gets to be 2,3, or 4 games into FB season that we are seeing major penalties, fumbles, and lapses in decision making-- this team is not going to have special qualities making a great season. It might still be a "good" season, but what we really need is a great season! No, the season is not over and there are still things to play for in terms of bowl eligibility and winning conference record. But, lose just once in conference and there is a better than even chance that we won't make or host the C-USA Championship Game come December, because we will lose out on tiebreaker and need the team ahead of us to lose twice. Lose twice, and championship hopes are 99.75% gone with us needing three way and complicated tiebreakers to elevate us to the championship game. Every game matters now!!
How many times have we written the same post-mortem after a big game loss?
1. Uninspired play? - check
2. Poor fundamentals? - check
3. Turnovers? - check
4. Failure to be competitive? - check
This program has a "just happy to be here" attitude. They have it in big games. They have it in bowl games. They have it early in the season. They have it in rivalry games. They have it when it comes to competing for championships.
We bemoan the folks who wear orange instead of blue. We wonder why we can't capture the Nashville market. We can't get or keep the casual fan.
I know the fan base is there. In our party on Saturday, I followed the game on twitter, and every one of those 8 alums kept asking me for updates.
But this is a C+ product.
How many of you want to bet we'll be saying the same things after WKU? Or Marshall? Or La-Tech? Or Mizzou? Or our 6-6 bowl filler game?
I hate to bring the doom and gloom, because I was one of the preachers of positivity for so long, but after 10 years - this program and fan base deserves better than to go to a terrible Vandy team, with a lame duck coach, and poop all over the field.
Winning is the answer. But this is a game where everyone is either rising or falling, there's no treading water, and is winning at a .501 clip really winning?
1. Uninspired play? - check
2. Poor fundamentals? - check
3. Turnovers? - check
4. Failure to be competitive? - check
This program has a "just happy to be here" attitude. They have it in big games. They have it in bowl games. They have it early in the season. They have it in rivalry games. They have it when it comes to competing for championships.
We bemoan the folks who wear orange instead of blue. We wonder why we can't capture the Nashville market. We can't get or keep the casual fan.
I know the fan base is there. In our party on Saturday, I followed the game on twitter, and every one of those 8 alums kept asking me for updates.
But this is a C+ product.
How many of you want to bet we'll be saying the same things after WKU? Or Marshall? Or La-Tech? Or Mizzou? Or our 6-6 bowl filler game?
I hate to bring the doom and gloom, because I was one of the preachers of positivity for so long, but after 10 years - this program and fan base deserves better than to go to a terrible Vandy team, with a lame duck coach, and poop all over the field.
Winning is the answer. But this is a game where everyone is either rising or falling, there's no treading water, and is winning at a .501 clip really winning?
When other universities are looking to replace a head coach because a loss in fan base or support, is this really a main concern for them? Are they losing revenue dollars because of that?
If so, where is our leadership on this issue? Does Chris Massaro and McPhee not recognize this? Or has our fan base never been looked at enough to even notice this? Is there thinking that our fan base isn't big enough and won't ever be big enough to facilitate a change based on its drop? If that's the case, then shouldn't they want our fan base to grow? Or are they good with not having much pressure on them in this regard?
When we talk about complacency, I think that is where it starts. No one is scared of being replaced due to lackluster performance, so it really doesn't behoove them to make risky decisions to better our programs. I am not saying that coaches don't want to win, but there is no fire under their ass if they lose. So why not make it easy on themselves.
I believe that this is an issue from the top down of this administration. Apparently it was there at one point or we would have never went to Division 1-A. It was lost somewhere along the way. We need to find it. Because it really hurts me as an individual to put my money, my time, my effort in supporting something that lets me down time and time again. The hangovers, from games like we played on Saturday, hurt more than they used to.
If so, where is our leadership on this issue? Does Chris Massaro and McPhee not recognize this? Or has our fan base never been looked at enough to even notice this? Is there thinking that our fan base isn't big enough and won't ever be big enough to facilitate a change based on its drop? If that's the case, then shouldn't they want our fan base to grow? Or are they good with not having much pressure on them in this regard?
When we talk about complacency, I think that is where it starts. No one is scared of being replaced due to lackluster performance, so it really doesn't behoove them to make risky decisions to better our programs. I am not saying that coaches don't want to win, but there is no fire under their ass if they lose. So why not make it easy on themselves.
I believe that this is an issue from the top down of this administration. Apparently it was there at one point or we would have never went to Division 1-A. It was lost somewhere along the way. We need to find it. Because it really hurts me as an individual to put my money, my time, my effort in supporting something that lets me down time and time again. The hangovers, from games like we played on Saturday, hurt more than they used to.
I'm with D-Wins on this one. I for one hope more than a few of you just leave the boards if all we're gonna hear is this crap for the rest of the season. I was pissed too so I get it but it's over now. Time to move on.
Nationally, we are 5th in passing yards and 6th in total offense. We have a lot to work with. We'll improve. Personally, I'm glad this happened because it means we will improve a lot before conference play. If we can correct some things this weekend, we'll be ready for a good showing at home vs. LaTech and we play a lot better at home. We just do.
Nationally, we are 5th in passing yards and 6th in total offense. We have a lot to work with. We'll improve. Personally, I'm glad this happened because it means we will improve a lot before conference play. If we can correct some things this weekend, we'll be ready for a good showing at home vs. LaTech and we play a lot better at home. We just do.
So you are ok with a good showing? As long as we compete, you are cool with our program?
My thoughts - What are Massaro's expectations for the program?
Is it to build a national brand? To win championships? To have a winning record? To not have a losing record? To have high APR? Has anyone ever directly asked him this question in an interview? I would love for some of with access to ask him this.
My feeling is Massaro's expectations are for us to not be a losing program and to have a high APR. Anything else is icing on the cake. He did the same thing with Kermit - it took 10 years before KD start achieving at the level. I am glad KD did finally take it to the next level, but Massaro was not going to fire him if he keep going 17-13. I think we are in for the same thing with Stock. If Stock maintains ~.500 record, he is MT's coach as long as Massaro is our AD. Same thing will happen in baseball; if McGuire has another losing season, he will be in trouble, but as long as he gets back to .500, he is our coach forever.
It sucks, but until Massaro changes or is fired, this is MT athletics. Realizing this helped me not get as angry about games like last week. I will hope we win each week & maybe we will catch lightening in a bottle. However, I expect a ~7 win (+/- 1), non-champion team that loses a bowl game to another non-P5, ~7-5 school because that's the bar our AD has set as acceptable.
Is it to build a national brand? To win championships? To have a winning record? To not have a losing record? To have high APR? Has anyone ever directly asked him this question in an interview? I would love for some of with access to ask him this.
My feeling is Massaro's expectations are for us to not be a losing program and to have a high APR. Anything else is icing on the cake. He did the same thing with Kermit - it took 10 years before KD start achieving at the level. I am glad KD did finally take it to the next level, but Massaro was not going to fire him if he keep going 17-13. I think we are in for the same thing with Stock. If Stock maintains ~.500 record, he is MT's coach as long as Massaro is our AD. Same thing will happen in baseball; if McGuire has another losing season, he will be in trouble, but as long as he gets back to .500, he is our coach forever.
It sucks, but until Massaro changes or is fired, this is MT athletics. Realizing this helped me not get as angry about games like last week. I will hope we win each week & maybe we will catch lightening in a bottle. However, I expect a ~7 win (+/- 1), non-champion team that loses a bowl game to another non-P5, ~7-5 school because that's the bar our AD has set as acceptable.
I'm simply not gonna b!tch about things I can't control. I have enough stuff going on in my life. This is merely entertainment. It does not define my existence. It's an escape from the pressures of life. However, I have learned from life that nothing is impossible to overcome. You win and you lose. That's part of life.
Our performance Saturday was not satisfactory and I think they know that. It was caused by us and not Vandy. I think they know that too. Both points are things that can be worked out and I think they will be.
I'm gonna chalk this one up to raw emotion. Besides UCONN, we were the only program IN THE NATION to have a Basketball Tourney champ and NCAA Tourney appearances in Men's and Women's BB and have a football team play in the post season. To say Massaro hasn't done a pretty damn good job due to the obvious limitations he faces everyday here is silly.
SMH.
You absolutely and totally missed the point of my post.
KD got 9 years prior to making the NIT or NCAA and he had zero conference championships in that time. At that time, he was the longest tenured coach of any at the 120+ FBS schools without a conference championship or NCAA appearance. His winning percentage was 54% prior to 2011.
RS has had 9 years since tying for a conference championship. His winning percentage is 51%. He is currently 1 of 2 coaches in the country to be at their current school since 2006 or earlier that has not at least tied for their division or won their conference.
Massaro is the only AD at a FBS school that has allowed 2 major sports coaches 9+ years without a championship and winning percentages in hovering around 50%. And that's ok. Once I realized our AD's expectations are not as high as mine are, I adjusted my expectations. I don't get near as upset now about losses as I used to. As long as our coaches win ~50% of their games and do not have 2 bad years in a row, then they will always be our coach. Anything more is a cherry on top.
So was Massaro right to keep KD? I think the last 4 years have proven that he was.
Stock may not fit your bill but who could we afford to hire that would? We could afford FIU's or FAU's coach. They would be awesome. Dan McCarney is available. </sarcasm> We've done ok. If you want to bail, bail.
The last 4 years is what I judge and so far we are +8. That ain't .500. Until that slips, I'm ok. I don't have 5 mill to buy him out and I doubt they could find a better coach that wouldn't get poached in a year.
A few things.
1. Truth is, I would have fired KD in 2007 and I would have fired RS in 2014 or 15. I would never present a contract to a coach that I could not afford to buyout. I am glad KD is winning now, but a do not believe a coach should be given 10 years to win a conference championship. Who knows how my replacement for KD would have done from 2007-present.
2. Where did I say I want to bail? Can you quote my statement that says I am bailing?
3. So he is winning 58% over the past 4 years and no championships. OK. Without a conference championship, that's not worthy of keeping his job, IMO.
My entire point from the above 2 posts - people should not freak out or think the sky is falling. Massaro will never fire RS if he keeps a .500 record, no matter how many bad loses we have or no matter if we never win a conference championship. So our program is what it is. So just watch the games, hope for the best, and maybe RS will catch lightening in a bottle.
Right, so you fire a bb coach with a winning record and replace him with who? KD was making peanuts. He ends up striking gold and we just had the biggest win in our entire history and made news all over the planet. But under your awesome leadership, we would have hired some clown like Mike Jarvis and we would have never known that glory.
Awesome logic. That's why you aren't an AD. Please lookup where we were before Massaro and where we are now. Don't forget all of the stadium and Murphy Center upgrades, Tennis complex, partnership with Champions Run for our golf program, the soccer complex, Baseball stadium upgrade, etc. Hey, we could still have Boots with that last in the nation APR, less than 13,000 attendance avg. and awesome Big Boi concerts.
But on a message board, everybody has awesome ideas. I think we can agree to disagree on this.
Awesome logic. That's why you aren't an AD. Please lookup where we were before Massaro and where we are now. Don't forget all of the stadium and Murphy Center upgrades, Tennis complex, partnership with Champions Run for our golf program, the soccer complex, Baseball stadium upgrade, etc. Hey, we could still have Boots with that last in the nation APR, less than 13,000 attendance avg. and awesome Big Boi concerts.
But on a message board, everybody has awesome ideas. I think we can agree to disagree on this.
Again, a few points.
1. You never answered my question. Where did I say I bailed on the football team?
2. Another question - Where did I say Massaro has done a poor job as AD?
I actually think Massaro has done a good job overall. I said, Massaro does not have the same championship expectations for our football and basketball coaches as essentially any other AD in the country. And that's OK. I said a coach will never be fired if they maintain a .500 or better record and have a high APR. I think the track record supports that. I personally wish Massaro set a bit higher bar for success. But it is what it is.
Geez man, you rip folks for saying the sky is falling. Then you rip me for saying our coaches aren't going anywhere so don't get so upset about it, and just hope for the best. Who wins your arguments with the man in the mirror?
You didn't say you were bailing. I said that. If I b!tched and moaned as much as some of you do on this board, I would have been gone. It "sounds" like you want to bail. That's why I said that. Obviously, you aren't happy. Why don't you send these gripes to Massaro and Stock?
As far as question 2 goes, C'mon. You've said that things suck and won't get better until Massaro is fired or resigns. That's not exactly a positive endorsement. LOL.
It just gets old, probably as much as reading that I'm not as bothered by all of this as others are is getting old to you.
But to your point, we really can't do anything about any of this except go or stay. We can complain until the cows come home but none of that changes anything. This is the product. We either continue to buy this or switch brands. For the record, I don't like everything that's going on either. Sports teams are like family members, they piss you off like no other at times but deep down you still love em.
It's not a 1 game season is all I'm saying. We don't have to agree. It's a free country. Well, kinda. At the end of the day, I'm glad you're here. It means you care.
As far as question 2 goes, C'mon. You've said that things suck and won't get better until Massaro is fired or resigns. That's not exactly a positive endorsement. LOL.
It just gets old, probably as much as reading that I'm not as bothered by all of this as others are is getting old to you.
But to your point, we really can't do anything about any of this except go or stay. We can complain until the cows come home but none of that changes anything. This is the product. We either continue to buy this or switch brands. For the record, I don't like everything that's going on either. Sports teams are like family members, they piss you off like no other at times but deep down you still love em. It's not a 1 game season is all I'm saying. We don't have to agree. It's a free country. Well, kinda. At the end of the day, I'm glad you're here. It means you care.
When the hell did they have Big Boi?
I did go to the Outkast one. I still enjoy that band. Speaking of music in Murfreesboro, this town was once music city. The glass house had some concerts here, and the local scene was awesome. Greenland would have people walking up and down the sidewalk going from one bar to the next. Luckily I got to enjoy a couple of years playing during that time before most of them moved on - some signed deals; some signed deals and pissed it all away too. Then cell phones and itunes came about and folks haven't looked up to see anything fun since.
I was there. Big Boi kept saying "F@#$ the rain!"
20 minutes in they cancelled the show because of the rain....
http://jewlscholar.mtsu.edu/bitstream/handle/mtsu/2950/4448.pdf?sequence=1
It was the Idaho game but at least we won 34-14
It was the Idaho game but at least we won 34-14
Didn't he actually say he was going to come back out when the rain stopped?
I remember several thousand people milling about waiting for him to come back out.
That rain was freezing too.
I hated the loss to Vandy. With Vandy's reputation as a horrible football team, it stinks just a little more.
Before I throw in the towel on the season, I do want to see at least a couple more games. Tomorrow's game is big and telling to me.
MT's offense is doing ok for playing what would amount to 3rd stringers at WR if not for injuries. I'm willing to give the offense a couple of more games to learn the new offense. Hopefully, improvement will be seen tomorrow.
I'll also be interested to see how Vandy plays the next few weeks. Regardless of it being Vandy, they have a monster defense. There is nothing to be ashamed of in being challenged by that defense. It just might be that MT might have been on the poor end of the 1 in 10 odds of being the team that Vandy finally got their offense going against. I'm not suggesting that Vandy will be SEC champs, but they still might be a decent team with the already known good defense and running game. If they can balance all of that with some passing, like they eventually did vs MT, they are likely going to be a pretty good team.
Again, I'm still hoping that MT can show growth and improvement over the next couple of games so that they might compete at a level most to all of us want to see. Let's see how MT bounces back on the road at a G5 program Saturday morning.
Before I throw in the towel on the season, I do want to see at least a couple more games. Tomorrow's game is big and telling to me.
MT's offense is doing ok for playing what would amount to 3rd stringers at WR if not for injuries. I'm willing to give the offense a couple of more games to learn the new offense. Hopefully, improvement will be seen tomorrow.
I'll also be interested to see how Vandy plays the next few weeks. Regardless of it being Vandy, they have a monster defense. There is nothing to be ashamed of in being challenged by that defense. It just might be that MT might have been on the poor end of the 1 in 10 odds of being the team that Vandy finally got their offense going against. I'm not suggesting that Vandy will be SEC champs, but they still might be a decent team with the already known good defense and running game. If they can balance all of that with some passing, like they eventually did vs MT, they are likely going to be a pretty good team.
Again, I'm still hoping that MT can show growth and improvement over the next couple of games so that they might compete at a level most to all of us want to see. Let's see how MT bounces back on the road at a G5 program Saturday morning.
I think the Vandy loss mainly just boiled down to our stupid mistakes allowing Vandy to play with the lead the entire game. That was the setup for them to be able to control the game on the ground. Had we protected the ball we likely would have had a two touchdown first quarter lead and Vandy would have been much less likely to ever enter an offensive comfort zone.
Hope we can get the win today at Bowling Green. A road win against a MAC program would be a positive step.
Hope we can get the win today at Bowling Green. A road win against a MAC program would be a positive step.
Amen Randall,
That game was all about us. We spotted them at least 23 points or more. If we clean it up, we'll be a pretty good football team.
That game was all about us. We spotted them at least 23 points or more. If we clean it up, we'll be a pretty good football team.
Yes, MT did spot Vandy a whole mess of points. Any advantage our defense was gaining and their defense possibly becoming worn down were wrecked by the MT offensive errors and the untimely almost 2 hour delay in the game.
Time for MT to put that loss behind them and demonstrate some good improvement when they take the field vs BG in an hour or two.
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