We didn't accept it nor were we ok with it. He was saying that he would be ok with 2 losing seasons in a row and a 1 win season if we won a championship. I was saying that I would never accept that. Different argument.
Very thankful to be 6-3.
- Thread starter MTsumner92
- Start date
The question I was trying to ask is: would someone prefer consistent ~7 +/- 1 win seasons w/o a championship (throw out the single 10 win and 10 lose outlier seasons) like what Stock gives us OR would someone want 2 championship years knowing it would be followed by 2 straight losing years including a 1 win season where we were one of the bottom 10 schools in college football & there is no sign of improvement (like WKU now).
JT wouldn't want the championships if it meant dealing with a one loss year. I would trade places with WKU's last 4 football seasons in a heartbeat. We just put different values on championships.
It's easy to say trade championships for a 1-lose season. But read the WKU boards....it really really sucks. But I would still make the trade.
I think the bigger issue is the G5 conferences compete in a system where the bigger conferences with more power and money along with the NCAA make it to where they only have conference championships to compete for. UCF keeps winning and is moving down in the AP and Coaches polls. Sit at #12 in CFP rankings and they have won 21 straight games. People can say what they want about their schedule, but they proved they can compete with the best on the field. They beat Auburn who was the only team to beat both Georgia and Bama last year. Also schedule does not matter when Bama's SOS is much lower than other teams with 0 or 1 losses because the pass the "eye test". A system that does not allow every conference to have a chance to compete for the National Championship is a flawed system. I honestly think if we were undefeated right now and was Georgia's only loss and Vanderbilt had only lost to us and Georgia we still would be ranked around 10-15 in the CFP rankings. We can argue 7+/- 1 win seasons every year without conference championships or a conference championship for a year or two then a few bad seasons with a new coach and rinse and repeat. I think we should question why we willingly participate in a system where those are our only two options. I think fan support and excitement would be much higher if we were competing with the NDSU's and JMU's in the FCS for national titles every year. No guarantee we would, but at least we would have a shot. I think other CUSA and Sun Belt schools should consider the same.
Fact is we can't trade places and we are stuck with Stockstill for better, average, or worse. Like this discussion has pointed out there are positives to take. The fact is we only have about 4-6 games a season we play where we don't know the outcome prior to the game. We are either playing these $$$$ games which we have no chance or we play 1 and 2 win teams which we are favored by two TD's and we have to have a bus accident on the way to the game to lose. When you play the worst teams in America 3-4 wins are pretty easy to come by and the you go .500 against average conference foes. As you can see from the breakdown "We ain't played nobody Pawl!" That's how you get bowl eligibility. 2013 and 2017 are prime examples. If anyone is interested I will try and compile record against winning teams.
Since this "magical" streak of non losing seasons began:
2012 (8-4):
Lost to FCS
Beat two teams with .500 or better records (GA Tech and WKU)
2013 (8-5):
Beat 1 .500 Team
Beat 1 over .500 Team
Beat 1 FCS Team
Beat 4 teams with 2 wins or less
2014: (6-6)
Beat 3 winning teams
Beat FCS
2015: (7-6)
Beat 2 teams with two wins or less
Beat 1 winning team
Beat FCS
2016 (8-5) (My opinion our best team in terms of talent)
Beat 1 FCS
Beat 1 winning team
2017 (7-6)
Beat 3 teams with two wins or less
Beat 2 winning teams including bowl
2018 (6-3)
1 winning team
Since this "magical" streak of non losing seasons began:
2012 (8-4):
Lost to FCS
Beat two teams with .500 or better records (GA Tech and WKU)
2013 (8-5):
Beat 1 .500 Team
Beat 1 over .500 Team
Beat 1 FCS Team
Beat 4 teams with 2 wins or less
2014: (6-6)
Beat 3 winning teams
Beat FCS
2015: (7-6)
Beat 2 teams with two wins or less
Beat 1 winning team
Beat FCS
2016 (8-5) (My opinion our best team in terms of talent)
Beat 1 FCS
Beat 1 winning team
2017 (7-6)
Beat 3 teams with two wins or less
Beat 2 winning teams including bowl
2018 (6-3)
1 winning team
I will add, I think Stock should be fired if he doesn’t win the conference, no matter what our record ends up being this year.
We can't do it though the money's not there. But the good news is he has stuck around long enough and been just good enough that this year we have a real shot at getting to conference title game. Though I will argue this is the worst the East has been talent-wise at the top in a while.
First of all, Stock ain't getting fired. When you haven't had a losing season in 7 years in a lower tier G5? No way is he getting fired no matter what happens. Contract or not. WKU will keep Sanford for another 2 years at least and that dude can't coach his way out of a wet sack.
It's just so funny when some folks act like we have it so bad when only 4 other teams in all of G5 has had the streak we've had for the last 7 years. This "We haven't played anybody" argument is silly too. We can't help what conference we're in. Again, if 7 years without a losing season was so damn easy, why are we the only ones in our conference who has done it? Why didn't Rice, UNT, UTEP, LaTech, WKU, Marshall, FAU, FIU or Southern Miss do it? They played the same schedule we did year in and year out.
It's not about acceptance. It's about me not having 50 million in the bank to change it. Instead, I'm appreciating the fact that it could be much worse and that I'm glad I'm not UTEP, Rice, UTSA or WKU right now. Now that doesn't mean I'm not frustrated as hell with our staff many times in the season because I get just as pissed as everyone.
I don't see us winning the conference this year. I'll be honest. UAB is playing off the chain. They are the most complete team in this conference. We'll have the shot on Nov. 24 and it will be set up for us but we don't have a complete enough team to take them out this year. I think we'll challenge the crap out of them. Even if we won on Nov.24, we'd have to beat them again a week later. Not happening. That's a brutal task. No one in the east can match them right now. That doesn't define our season in my mind but everyone thinks differently and that's a good thing. If we get this win tomorrow, then we gotta be there on Thanksgiving weekend. I will be there.
It's just so funny when some folks act like we have it so bad when only 4 other teams in all of G5 has had the streak we've had for the last 7 years. This "We haven't played anybody" argument is silly too. We can't help what conference we're in. Again, if 7 years without a losing season was so damn easy, why are we the only ones in our conference who has done it? Why didn't Rice, UNT, UTEP, LaTech, WKU, Marshall, FAU, FIU or Southern Miss do it? They played the same schedule we did year in and year out.
It's not about acceptance. It's about me not having 50 million in the bank to change it. Instead, I'm appreciating the fact that it could be much worse and that I'm glad I'm not UTEP, Rice, UTSA or WKU right now. Now that doesn't mean I'm not frustrated as hell with our staff many times in the season because I get just as pissed as everyone.
I don't see us winning the conference this year. I'll be honest. UAB is playing off the chain. They are the most complete team in this conference. We'll have the shot on Nov. 24 and it will be set up for us but we don't have a complete enough team to take them out this year. I think we'll challenge the crap out of them. Even if we won on Nov.24, we'd have to beat them again a week later. Not happening. That's a brutal task. No one in the east can match them right now. That doesn't define our season in my mind but everyone thinks differently and that's a good thing. If we get this win tomorrow, then we gotta be there on Thanksgiving weekend. I will be there.
It's not like we have it so bad that has people ready for a change. It's because we have it so mediocre. We want more.
But we also do not get $29.2 million in gross revenue like Vandy or $36.5 million for Iowas State. If we did play in those conferences with that money one would assume we could get better coaches, have better facilities, and get better players.
Exactly! We're winning with bread crumbs in comparison to the money those teams have.
That's a fair point. A change doesn't guarantee that we won't still be mediocre or worse. Especially with our athletic admin. If we fired Massaro and some others, we might have a shot of getting a really good hire here. With Massaro, I doubt it. We got lucky with Stock to be honest. In comparison to the rest of his career, he's over-performed here.
I can see your point. It’s true, even if Massaro fired Stock (I know that won’t happen) our next coach could be the same or worse.
I think that’s another place our difference in perspective show up. I would rather us remove Stock, hire someone new trying to win a championship, and that person turn out like Sanford than us keep going 7 wins a year like we do now. In my mind, at least we are putting a premium on championships that way and trying. I realize you would lose your mind if we did that. It would suck, but It’s worth the risk to me.
All that said, I think you are spot on with us finishing 7-5. Even if we do back into the championship game that way via tiebreaker,I think we lose to uab 2x in a row and we go into a bowl 7-6. It’s funny, I think we are closer to finish .500 than not, but I think we are in great position to win the East.
A lot of people think we won't have much of a chance against UAB, but who have they played? They had a SOFT out of conference schedule, and they haven't blown me away much with their in conference play.
IMO, Stock being here for as long as he has without any more than what he has accomplished has crushed any momentum for the program.
Top down replacement in the entire AD department needs to happen. We run this place like a Div 3 department. New blood is desperately needed.
Top down replacement in the entire AD department needs to happen. We run this place like a Div 3 department. New blood is desperately needed.
Stock was almost exclusively a position coach, I know ECU wasn't thrilled with his one season as OC, but apart from that year, what can really be said about his career? How often are we discussing the contribution of various position coaches good or bad?
