Originally posted by RaiderDoug:
Originally posted by bigbadjohn45:
The real question at play here is what are you going to do about eternity, Doug? When you die, what do you believe happens to you? If you believe there is no God, you most likely believe there is no future beyond your life here on earth. Am I correct on that?
Thanks again for your responses.
This post was edited on 2/20 1:03 PM by bigbadjohn45
We can debate the bible all we want. To be honest, I don't know if I can agree that the "bible is open to interpretation". Many of the contradictions, absurdities, oddities, and just plain falsehoods are as plain as day.
I can't tell you what happens after we die.
It doesn't really matter to me since we're all headed there anyway.
Maybe nothing. Maybe we come back as bugs or cows or more people. Maybe we're ghosts. Or, maybe there's a heaven or a hell (honestly, I find this to be far-fetched). Maybe there's a harem with 72 virgins (more farfetched than heaven/hell).
The whole concept of heaven/hell/afterlife just doesn't work for me.
What's the point of heaven? "Heaven" for one person might actually be a "hell" for another. Why doesn't God just make the real world awesome instead of making us pass this test? I don't want to spend eternity hanging out with my dead relatives. I didn't even want to hang out with them when they were here.
And I don't believe in the concept of Hell whatsoever - which was clearly and obviously created by religious authority as a means of control (do what I say or else!!!).
Many of these points that you're bringing up, i've discussed with my wife, who is an uber-religious baptist and still goes to church with her family. I sleep in and watch NFL gameday. I grew up Catholic, sometime about age 20, the more I tried to think about it, the more it just never made sense to me. I've wavered between agnosticism and athiesm ever since.
Doug, so sorry I'm just now getting back with you.. Hope you didn't think I was through talking with you--because I'm not--but I had a little incident yesterday when I slipped and fell on the ice while loading some firewood. Nothing is broken (I don't think), but my shoulder and side are sore as the dickens today!
At any rate, I just read my friend Nashville Flash's post concerning our discussion. Flash is right, my sole purpose here is to help you. I don't know you other than our posts back and forth, and I've never met you. The fact that we haven't met is not really the issue here. The issue is that you're still a human being that God loves. In fact, God loves you so much that he gave His only begotten Son to die on a cruel cross for you. And, if you were the only person living in the world, He would've still died--just for you. That's how much He loves you.
You see Doug, we're all infected with the disease of sin--every one of us. "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23 KJV). That's why we're in need of the Savior.
The thing about it, Doug, is that nothing can compare with all that is ours in Christ when we find salvation. Forgiveness. Justification. Adoption. Eternal life. What a glorious life the Gospel offers to those who are searching for purpose and meaning or to those who have found that materialism and sensual pleasure are not the answer to the deepest yearnings of the heart.
The crowning glory of salvation is promised when we enter into the presence of the King. We have a home in heaven reserved for us and awards that await us. No wonder the Gospel is "Good News."
Unfortunately, many people today have distorted the meaning of salvation, saying that it means only political, social and economic liberation in this life. Certainly, Christians should be concerned about injustice and do what they can to promote a more just world. But lasting and complete liberation from social injustice will come only when Jesus Christ returns to establish His Kingdom. Biblical salvation is far deeper, because it gets to the root of our problem-the problem of sin. Only Christ can change the human heart and replace greed and hate with compassion and love.
Do you understand God's plan of salvation?
There are certain points we all need to understand about the heart of the Good News of Christ.
First, all are sinners and stand under the judgment of God. "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23, NIV). We might believe that we are good enough to win God's favor or that we can perform certain religious acts to counterbalance our bad deeds. But the Bible states that we are all condemned, for "there is no one righteous, not even one" (Romans 3:10, NIV).
Second, we need to understand what Christ has done to make our salvation possible. God loves us, and Christ came to make forgiveness and salvation possible. What did He do? He died on the cross as the complete sacrifice for our sins. He took upon Himself the judgment that we deserve.
Third, we need to respond to God's work. God in His grace offers us the gift of eternal life. But like any gift, it becomes ours only when we take it.
We must repent of our sins. Repentance carries with it the idea of confession, sorrow, turning and changing. We cannot ask forgiveness over and over again for our sins and then return to those sins, expecting God to forgive us. We must turn from our practice of sin as best we know how, and turn by faith to Christ as our Lord and Savior. "It is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works, so that no one can boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9, NIV). Christ invites us to come to Him, and God has promised, "to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God" (John 1:12, NIV).
Fourth, we must understand the cost of coming to Christ and following Christ. Jesus constantly called upon those who would follow Him to count the cost. A person must determine to leave his sins behind and turn from them. Some people may be unwilling to do so. And there may be other costs as well when we decide to follow Christ. In some cultures, a person who turns to Christ may be disowned by family, alienated from social life, imprisoned or even killed.
The ultimate cost of true discipleship is the cost of renouncing self: self-will, self-plans, self-motivations. Christ is to be Lord of our lives. Jesus declared, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me" (Luke 9:23, NIV). Jesus does not call us to a life of selfish comfort and ease-He calls us to a battle! He calls us to give up our own plans and to follow Him without reserve-even to death.
Yes, it costs to follow Christ. But it also costs not to follow Christ. It cost the Apostle Paul the prestige of a high-level position in the Jewish nation. But he declared, "whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things" (Philippians 3:7-8, NIV). Christ calls men and women not only to trust Him as Savior, but also to follow Him as Lord.
Fifth, salvation is intimately linked to the cross. The man who hung there between two thieves was without sin. His virgin birth, by the miraculous intervention of the Holy Spirit, meant that He did not inherit a sinful human nature. Neither did He commit any sin during His lifetime. Mary gave birth to the only perfect child. He became the only perfect man. As such, He was uniquely qualified to put into action God's plan of salvation for mankind.
Why was Calvary's cross so special, so different from hundreds of other crosses used for Roman executions? It was because on that cross Jesus suffered the punishment for sin that we all deserve. He was our Substitute. He suffered the judgment and condemnation of death that our sinful nature and deeds deserve. "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God" (2 Corinthians 5:21, NIV).
Paul wrote to the church at Corinth, "I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified" (1 Corinthians 2:2, NIV). Paul knew there was a built-in power in the cross and the resurrection.
Finally, faith is essential for salvation. But we must be absolutely clear on what we mean when we speak of "salvation by faith." There are various kinds of belief or faith, and not all are linked to salvation. In the New Testament, faith means more than intellectual belief. It involves trust and commitment. I may say that I believe a bridge will hold my weight. But I really believe it only when I commit myself to it and walk across it. Saving faith involves an act of commitment and trust, in which I commit my life to Jesus Christ and trust Him alone as my Savior and Lord.
My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus's blood and righteousness. It's a tremendous feeling to know that if I should die today, I'd go home to be with the Lord in Heaven.
This is the Good News that I share with you, Doug. I can boldly share the love of Jesus with you because I know what He's done for me. If God can forgive me, just a lowly sinner not worthy of anything--let alone forgiveness--He can save and forgive you, too.
Please let me know if you have any questions, Doug. If I can't answer them, my friends and fellow posters Flash and Mike would be willing to assist, I'm sure. God bless you, Doug.
--BBJ
I also am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ. Jesus told us that if we're not willing to acknowledge Him before men, then He's not willing to acknowledge us before His Father who is in Heaven.