BASKETBALL Middle Tennessee(13-4, 5-0) @ Marshall(12-6, 3-2) (BEIN), 7PM, Thursday, January 18, 2018
- Thread starter SpaceRaider
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Were gonna get killed at Western. This team is just not that athletic and mentally weak. Suprised we've done as well as we have this year.
Agreed. After the Belmont game I saw huge red flags. We played well against Miami and USC, but basketball isn't a game of moral victories. We will not have any Top 50 RPI wins at the end of the year, and we'll be lucky to have any Top 100 wins the way Ole Miss and Vandy have been sucking. Our offense is too inconsistent, and our guard play is generally terrible outside of Potts and Johnson. One game Walters looks like an NBA prospect, the next game he doesn't look like a D1 starter. You can't have inconsistencies like that from starting seniors and expect to be a championship level team. This was a night when we were supposed to bring our A game....our very best. It was the most important game of the year thus far. And look how we come out. It says a lot about this team. We just got smoked by a Marshall squad who lost to a 5-13 Morehead State team sitting in 12th place in the OVC....No words. Rest in peace, RPI.
I have not the slightest clue how we can only score 63 points against one of the worst defenses in the country (Other than we're just not a good team).
Long story short, I just don't think this team is very good. Marshall, WKU, and Old Dominion are all better teams in this conference. We'll be lucky to make the NIT this year IMO.
Losing Jacory Williams & Reggie Upshaw (Plus some great bench players over the last 2 years) is just too much. Hopefully there is top level talent in the recruiting pipe lines because our roster as-is is not championship pedigree IMO beyond King & Potts (And you can't do it with 2 players).
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Amazing how some seem to be almost completely absent on here win after win after win. Then when the team screws up or has a bad night, said people show up to gripe, complain, and generally talk about how they can tell the team is terrible all along.
MT came into this game leading the nation in consecutive road wins. The nation! While the loss may have been a letdown or disappointing, it is hard to get down on them for a rare road loss vs one of the better teams in the conference.
What is somewhat frustrating in watching games this year is the amount of time they have labored strenuously on the offensive end. A large factor in that is that it appears that the team has a lot more potential and ability they have yet to realize. Partly, it looks like an issue of consistency. Or as I like to say, they just aren't getting into the flow on offense. Stated another way, they struggle to get into rhythm on offense. Being that I could only hear the game vs Marshall, I don't know if they were moving the ball well. That appears sometimes to be a part of their struggles. Being that they are a talented team, sometimes it seems they are trying to score individually vs moving the ball. It's understandable as it's brought them pretty far this season. I suspect to be at championship level performance, they are going to need good ball movement in flow with good assists.
Rebounding is about attitude and effort. MT rebounded well in the loss. This suggests that it was not an effort problem. It seems the team played hard. Potts and Johnson appeared to have played well. Dixon seemed to have an ok game. What couldn't happen and MT still win is have Potts or Walters to spend much time on the bench in foul trouble to go along with King struggling on offense. That happened tonight. Makes me wonder if King's bum wheel was bothering him somewhat? 6 turnovers and an uncharacteristically amount of missed shots suggest something was off for King. Judging by King's 9 rebounds, effort does not appear to be the culprit in this game.
Turnovers were obviously a problem. When the home team shoots 15 more FTs than you with 11 made FTs more than you, it seems suggestive when you lose by 10. It seems a factor even when not placing all the blame on refs and FTs.
Lastly, how much are the new rules of freedom of movement the last couple of years effecting MT's traditional strength of tough defense?
What is somewhat frustrating in watching games this year is the amount of time they have labored strenuously on the offensive end. A large factor in that is that it appears that the team has a lot more potential and ability they have yet to realize. Partly, it looks like an issue of consistency. Or as I like to say, they just aren't getting into the flow on offense. Stated another way, they struggle to get into rhythm on offense. Being that I could only hear the game vs Marshall, I don't know if they were moving the ball well. That appears sometimes to be a part of their struggles. Being that they are a talented team, sometimes it seems they are trying to score individually vs moving the ball. It's understandable as it's brought them pretty far this season. I suspect to be at championship level performance, they are going to need good ball movement in flow with good assists.
Rebounding is about attitude and effort. MT rebounded well in the loss. This suggests that it was not an effort problem. It seems the team played hard. Potts and Johnson appeared to have played well. Dixon seemed to have an ok game. What couldn't happen and MT still win is have Potts or Walters to spend much time on the bench in foul trouble to go along with King struggling on offense. That happened tonight. Makes me wonder if King's bum wheel was bothering him somewhat? 6 turnovers and an uncharacteristically amount of missed shots suggest something was off for King. Judging by King's 9 rebounds, effort does not appear to be the culprit in this game.
Turnovers were obviously a problem. When the home team shoots 15 more FTs than you with 11 made FTs more than you, it seems suggestive when you lose by 10. It seems a factor even when not placing all the blame on refs and FTs.
Lastly, how much are the new rules of freedom of movement the last couple of years effecting MT's traditional strength of tough defense?
A few insights after reading Kermit's comments on the game.
Passing or ball movement was not good. Personally, I think this is an aspect of the team's overall game that they have yet to get right this season. Perhaps this Marshall loss will serve as a catalyst for the team to get motivated into learning and implementing good offensive ball movement.
How much of King's poor shooting in this game is a byproduct of the nation's leading shot blocker from Marshall being in his head?
So yea, this team is having to find their own way after having to replace some stellar players. On top of that, C-USA is improved compared to last year. Not only has the conference improved overall, it seems the top 5 teams in the conference are better with each being capable of winning the championship.
Passing or ball movement was not good. Personally, I think this is an aspect of the team's overall game that they have yet to get right this season. Perhaps this Marshall loss will serve as a catalyst for the team to get motivated into learning and implementing good offensive ball movement.
How much of King's poor shooting in this game is a byproduct of the nation's leading shot blocker from Marshall being in his head?
So yea, this team is having to find their own way after having to replace some stellar players. On top of that, C-USA is improved compared to last year. Not only has the conference improved overall, it seems the top 5 teams in the conference are better with each being capable of winning the championship.
The team has a lot of work to do. I think that duke's assessment is pretty spot on.
Other teams are getting better in the conference and our offensive woes and turnovers has made us a bit of a "middle" tier team. Nothing that can't be fixed but it was frustrating to listen to and I only was able to listen to the second half.
Other teams are getting better in the conference and our offensive woes and turnovers has made us a bit of a "middle" tier team. Nothing that can't be fixed but it was frustrating to listen to and I only was able to listen to the second half.
We are not a middle tier team in CUSA...geez you guys are ridiculous. We are one of the top teams but right now are not playing our best and others are playing well. We are 5-1 for goodness sake; losing to Marshall at Marshall is not a bad loss. The good news is we are far from peaking, we can get better. Everyone take a chill pill and relax.
WKU will be favored on Saturday, but both WKU and Marshal have to play at our house.
WKU will be favored on Saturday, but both WKU and Marshal have to play at our house.
Good grief. I came on here to see if there were some decent takes on the game. Instead I see guys throwing sweet sixteen temper tantrums about how bad of a team we are. Interestingly enough, some of these people only post when we lose.
Yeah we lost, this season isn't over. Win on Saturday and we retake the conference lead.
Yeah we lost, this season isn't over. Win on Saturday and we retake the conference lead.
MT lost on the road last night to the team that MT had to have 30 points from Giddy Potts in last year's championship to beat. This team doesn't possess the mental toughness that last year's team possessed. Not saying that the Raiders aren't a mentally tough team, but this collection of players doesn't have the collective leadership that last year's team did. The Raiders weren't going to go undefeated in this conference this year.
The road to the NCAA for this team is what it has always been. Win the damn tournament.
The road to the NCAA for this team is what it has always been. Win the damn tournament.
Boy, most of the conference games this season have been frustrating to watch on offense. I agree, the team's struggles are fixable. They just have to get together as a team, work together, and get it done.
I don't think I'm wearing blue colored glasses on this, but MT is still a top of the conference title contender. Despite having to sort out some offensive kinks, MT is still right in the thick of things at the top of the conference. Even with those same offensive struggles, MT has established success largely on toughness, effort, and hard work as evidenced by defense and rebounding. I like a team's chances that is tough and willing to work hard.
Lastly and perhaps more importantly, MT has started this conference race with 5 of the first 7 games being on the road! Sitting at 5-1 with 5 of the first 7 games on the road is pretty darn impressive. In Kermit's system of standings, what does that make MT right now? About +3
I think that is about the 2nd or 3rd time Kermit has made that assertion about King. I suspect King is going through some bumps in the road in refining his overall game.
How MT got to this point, here's my take:
The typical Kermit offensive flow has not been there this season. For most of the season, particularly non-conf, a lot of the offense seemed to be the team standing around on offense looking to give the ball to King and watching him go to work for 20-30 points a game. It sure was fun and enjoyable to watch, but it was clear that it wasn't typical Kermit team offense.
Then Hawaii. Playing top teams in the nation and 2 losses later, I suspect the team realized they needed to start playing offense as a team. Seems the team began to realize in those losses that they could not win vs national powers on national stage (i.e. NCAA Tournament) on individual play alone on offense. It seems the team realized their offensive individual play needs to give way to team offense for the team to be the best they can be.
Then conf play started mostly on the road, and just about the whole way MT has been struggling to figure out how to get into offensive flow. The upside is MT was able to get some wins on effort, toughness, and hard work on defense and rebounding. On the road swing through top conf teams of Marshall and WKU, defense and rebounding are not enough. Offense has to be in place to go along with defense and rebounding to get these tough wins on the road.
This is also consistent with King trying to refine and improve his overall game. King and the team are out of sorts on offense while trying to get the offense in sync. Fortunately, Giddy appears to be getting back to his solid fundamentals that has made him so good over the years. Johnson is coming along and continues to develop. Walters is improving and is a monster when he can just stay out of foul trouble. It also appears that assists are more of an emphasis.
Cause for hope? How many seasons have we seen MT struggle early in conference play only to come together and get hot by late Jan/early Feb? Most every time, MT has gone on to be dominant and impressive down the stretch.
To put it another way, I'm still bullish on the boys in blue!
The typical Kermit offensive flow has not been there this season. For most of the season, particularly non-conf, a lot of the offense seemed to be the team standing around on offense looking to give the ball to King and watching him go to work for 20-30 points a game. It sure was fun and enjoyable to watch, but it was clear that it wasn't typical Kermit team offense.
Then Hawaii. Playing top teams in the nation and 2 losses later, I suspect the team realized they needed to start playing offense as a team. Seems the team began to realize in those losses that they could not win vs national powers on national stage (i.e. NCAA Tournament) on individual play alone on offense. It seems the team realized their offensive individual play needs to give way to team offense for the team to be the best they can be.
Then conf play started mostly on the road, and just about the whole way MT has been struggling to figure out how to get into offensive flow. The upside is MT was able to get some wins on effort, toughness, and hard work on defense and rebounding. On the road swing through top conf teams of Marshall and WKU, defense and rebounding are not enough. Offense has to be in place to go along with defense and rebounding to get these tough wins on the road.
This is also consistent with King trying to refine and improve his overall game. King and the team are out of sorts on offense while trying to get the offense in sync. Fortunately, Giddy appears to be getting back to his solid fundamentals that has made him so good over the years. Johnson is coming along and continues to develop. Walters is improving and is a monster when he can just stay out of foul trouble. It also appears that assists are more of an emphasis.
Cause for hope? How many seasons have we seen MT struggle early in conference play only to come together and get hot by late Jan/early Feb? Most every time, MT has gone on to be dominant and impressive down the stretch.
To put it another way, I'm still bullish on the boys in blue!
Almost 24 hours later, it is still maddening that some people pop up on here to run down the team after 1 road loss vs strong conf competition on one of the toughest road stretches in conference play. Perhaps just as or even more outrageous is this running down the team for 1 conf loss even though they are starting conference play with 5 of the first 7 conference games on the road.
Make no mistake, it's not some personal offense towards me or some such thing. It's that Kermit has brought this program from relative obscurity and few fans to now near a national power. Kermit has built this winner with less resources than most any other successful program, yet he continues to work hard to take the program even further. The facilities are in desperate need of improvement, and the athletic dept still struggles to scrape up some small pay raises for him and his staff that he has more than earned. While the team deserves to be playing in front of a packed house nearly every home game, I suspect that these same people running down the team don't even bother to show up for even a majority of the home games.
Lastly, those players deserve better. Those young men are putting in tremendous effort and time working their guts out to be a great team. They are working incredibly hard that appreciative fans can enjoy some excellent college basketball games...at our alma mater! Bottom line is that it just ain't right. It's not true of how they have been run down. That team deserves better.
Make no mistake, it's not some personal offense towards me or some such thing. It's that Kermit has brought this program from relative obscurity and few fans to now near a national power. Kermit has built this winner with less resources than most any other successful program, yet he continues to work hard to take the program even further. The facilities are in desperate need of improvement, and the athletic dept still struggles to scrape up some small pay raises for him and his staff that he has more than earned. While the team deserves to be playing in front of a packed house nearly every home game, I suspect that these same people running down the team don't even bother to show up for even a majority of the home games.
Lastly, those players deserve better. Those young men are putting in tremendous effort and time working their guts out to be a great team. They are working incredibly hard that appreciative fans can enjoy some excellent college basketball games...at our alma mater! Bottom line is that it just ain't right. It's not true of how they have been run down. That team deserves better.
Altshauf has maintained that this team can be really good. I will start taking inventory at the beginning of February....
You are completely misguided about the loss. It's not the fact that we lost, it's HOW we lost. We scored 63 points against a team that gives up an average of 81.4 PPG. We scored almost 20 points below what Marshall typically allows. If that doesn't concern you, then I have no words. That's a HUGE red flag.
This is not the teams of 2015, 2016, and 2017. We are not as talented, we are not as consistent, and we are not going to win nearly as many games. Like I said, we'll be lucky to make the NIT this year IMO. The combination of C-USA being a lot better this year, plus with us just not being very good, I just don't see it. You can be bullish and wear Blue Blinders all you want. I called this back after the Belmont game and still have the thread saved because many mocked me about being down on the team this year. I do hope I'm wrong, but IMO we've got about a 5% chance to make the NCAA's this year, and I'll ALWAYS bet against 5%.
This is not the teams of 2015, 2016, and 2017. We are not as talented, we are not as consistent, and we are not going to win nearly as many games. Like I said, we'll be lucky to make the NIT this year IMO. The combination of C-USA being a lot better this year, plus with us just not being very good, I just don't see it. You can be bullish and wear Blue Blinders all you want. I called this back after the Belmont game and still have the thread saved because many mocked me about being down on the team this year. I do hope I'm wrong, but IMO we've got about a 5% chance to make the NCAA's this year, and I'll ALWAYS bet against 5%.
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