Mens Basketball Program........

sWiley

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It's bad man. Real bad. And there are zero answers in sight. We have serious problems and deficiencies from top to bottom and all throughout. Our president, our AD, our coaches, our players, even our fans......Yes I will acknowledge we are not the perfect fans but when you consider what this athletic department has put us through, how is there a reasonable expectation for us to be good fans and supporters????????? I do not believe in blind, ignorant allegiance.

This is going to sound crazy, but Rick Stockstill and his staff are the only remaining competent individuals we have throughout our athletic department and major sports (Football, Mens CBB). Rick and his staff have at least demonstrated the potential to compete for a championship in CUSA.

It is truly hopeless at this point for the basketball program. As I've grown older, I've tried to find the positives instead of focusing on the negatives just because I don't want to be grumpy, angry, and negative all the time.

But good lord, how can one be positive after we go from experiencing our best years ever in basketball to, quite literally, the worst 2 seasons in the history of our basketball program in the blink of an eye. I don't even know what to say or what to think it's gotten so bad. And there's absolutely nothing to indicate a turnaround will occur any time soon. This coaching staff appears to be throwing more bad money at bad money by keeping all these inferior players on our roster that were originally destined for UNC-Asheville (Crump, Lawrence).

It flat out perplexes me that McDevitt believes he can win CUSA championships with players like Jayce Johnson, Crump, Lawrence, Millin, Millner, etc. I raised alarm bells and was very concerned when we started accepting bench player transfers from schools like EKU and Missouri St. - Like seriously, what? When have we ever taken bench players from programs that are not even as successful as ours???? It almost feels like McDevitt doesn't want to win. Did he really think bench players from inferior D1 programs like Scurry & Dishman, and his UNC-Asheville commits could get it done in CUSA? This is a serious question. I hesitantly gave him the benefit of the doubt when he brought all these players in but my skepticism appears very warranted at this point. And now, he wants to double down on these players instead of just flushing it and getting better players?? Maybe after 2 years of abysmal failure nobody wants to come play for us anymore??? Truly perplexing. I 100% do not understand the approach. I believe he greatly underestimated the talent and level of competition in CUSA. This is not the Big South. And it's not even close.

What's Nick gonna do next year after all these guys get smoked again by superior talent at North Texas, Western Kentucky, Marshall, Charlotte, FIU, FAU.....We are literally one of the least talented teams in CUSA now and it shows....BIG TIME. This roster needs a complete make-over, not a few set piece changes. We need to sign at least 3 and more likely 4 quality players with this class. Fussell is a great start but we can't just take 1 more player with this class. There is some hope with Jalen Jordan, Jordan Davis, and Dishman getting healthy.....but even with better players I really question Nick's ability to coach in this league. Our inability to get easy baskets and the fact that he's overseen one of the worst defensive teams in our history is clearly concerning...

These government employed and protected schmucks (McPhee & Massaro) that allowed this to happen have no fvcking accountability or self respect whatsoever and it trickles down. If this were a private company they would have all been fired 10 years ago but instead the government bureaucracy protects, emboldens, and continues to enable this $hitshow.
 
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TrueBlue147

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If you really want to fill bad go on youtbue and watch some of our games from just a few year ago. The talent level, the defense, and offensive execution is unreal compared to what we have witnessed the past two years.


MT vs Minnesota

 
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sWiley

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If you really want to fill bad go on youtbue and watch some of our games from just a few year ago. The talent level, the defense, and offensive execution is unreal compared to what we have witnessed the past two years.


MT vs Minnesota


You are right. Wow. Doesn't even look like our teams the last 2 years are playing the same sport.......
 

crposton

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It's bad man. Real bad. And there are zero answers in sight. We have serious problems and deficiencies from top to bottom and all throughout. Our president, our AD, our coaches, our players, even our fans......Yes I will acknowledge we are not the perfect fans but when you consider what this athletic department has put us through, how is there a reasonable expectation for us to be good fans and supporters????????? I do not believe in blind, ignorant allegiance.

This is going to sound crazy, but Rick Stockstill and his staff are the only remaining competent individuals we have throughout our athletic department and major sports (Football, Mens CBB). Rick and his staff have at least demonstrated the potential to compete for a championship in CUSA.

It is truly hopeless at this point for the basketball program. As I've grown older, I've tried to find the positives instead of focusing on the negatives just because I don't want to be grumpy, angry, and negative all the time.

But good lord, how can one be positive after we go from experiencing our best years ever in basketball to, quite literally, the worst 2 seasons in the history of our basketball program in the blink of an eye. I don't even know what to say or what to think it's gotten so bad. And there's absolutely nothing to indicate a turnaround will occur any time soon. This coaching staff appears to be throwing more bad money at bad money by keeping all these inferior players on our roster that were originally destined for UNC-Asheville (Crump, Lawrence).

It flat out perplexes me that McDevitt believes he can win CUSA championships with players like Jayce Johnson, Crump, Lawrence, Millin, Millner, etc. I raised alarm bells and was very concerned when we started accepting bench player transfers from schools like EKU and Missouri St. - Like seriously, what? When have we ever taken bench players from programs that are not even as successful as ours???? It almost feels like McDevitt doesn't want to win. Did he really think bench players from inferior D1 programs like Scurry & Dishman, and his UNC-Asheville commits could get it done in CUSA? This is a serious question. I hesitantly gave him the benefit of the doubt when he brought all these players in but my skepticism appears very warranted at this point. And now, he wants to double down on these players instead of just flushing it and getting better players?? Maybe after 2 years of abysmal failure nobody wants to come play for us anymore??? Truly perplexing. I 100% do not understand the approach. I believe he greatly underestimated the talent and level of competition in CUSA. This is not the Big South. And it's not even close.

What's Nick gonna do next year after all these guys get smoked again by superior talent at North Texas, Western Kentucky, Marshall, Charlotte, FIU, FAU.....We are literally one of the least talented teams in CUSA now and it shows....BIG TIME. This roster needs a complete make-over, not a few set piece changes. We need to sign at least 3 and more likely 4 quality players with this class. Fussell is a great start but we can't just take 1 more player with this class. There is some hope with Jalen Jordan, Jordan Davis, and Dishman getting healthy.....but even with better players I really question Nick's ability to coach in this league. Our inability to get easy baskets and the fact that he's overseen one of the worst defensive teams in our history is clearly concerning...

These government employed and protected schmucks (McPhee & Massaro) that allowed this to happen have no fvcking accountability or self respect whatsoever and it trickles down. If this were a private company they would have all been fired 10 years ago but instead the government bureaucracy protects, emboldens, and continues to enable this $hitshow.
I would not knock all UNC-Asheville commits as MaCio Teague who is the second leading scorer for Baylor right now played under McDevitt. We have not seen that level of talent come in here obviously, but he has shown he can get guys like that. It is unfair to judge Dishman yet, but I did have the same concerns when we were bringing in him and Scurry. I just want to keep supporting the players. As bad as it is for us, I am sure it is worse for them. Sure some of them do not belong at this level, but can you blame them to taking the opportunity? That is why I try not to single any of them out, but I understand those that do in a discussion. He is going to get one more year. We can only hope we turn the corner. It is looking bleak to say the least.
 

dukewayne

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I gather CNM has generally avoided JUCOs. With him suddenly offering several JUCOs, I suspect he knows he is running out of seasons to waste.
 
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dukewayne

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It's bad man. Real bad. And there are zero answers in sight. We have serious problems and deficiencies from top to bottom and all throughout. Our president, our AD, our coaches, our players, even our fans......Yes I will acknowledge we are not the perfect fans but when you consider what this athletic department has put us through, how is there a reasonable expectation for us to be good fans and supporters????????? I do not believe in blind, ignorant allegiance.

This is going to sound crazy, but Rick Stockstill and his staff are the only remaining competent individuals we have throughout our athletic department and major sports (Football, Mens CBB). Rick and his staff have at least demonstrated the potential to compete for a championship in CUSA.

It is truly hopeless at this point for the basketball program. As I've grown older, I've tried to find the positives instead of focusing on the negatives just because I don't want to be grumpy, angry, and negative all the time.

But good lord, how can one be positive after we go from experiencing our best years ever in basketball to, quite literally, the worst 2 seasons in the history of our basketball program in the blink of an eye. I don't even know what to say or what to think it's gotten so bad. And there's absolutely nothing to indicate a turnaround will occur any time soon. This coaching staff appears to be throwing more bad money at bad money by keeping all these inferior players on our roster that were originally destined for UNC-Asheville (Crump, Lawrence).

It flat out perplexes me that McDevitt believes he can win CUSA championships with players like Jayce Johnson, Crump, Lawrence, Millin, Millner, etc. I raised alarm bells and was very concerned when we started accepting bench player transfers from schools like EKU and Missouri St. - Like seriously, what? When have we ever taken bench players from programs that are not even as successful as ours???? It almost feels like McDevitt doesn't want to win. Did he really think bench players from inferior D1 programs like Scurry & Dishman, and his UNC-Asheville commits could get it done in CUSA? This is a serious question. I hesitantly gave him the benefit of the doubt when he brought all these players in but my skepticism appears very warranted at this point. And now, he wants to double down on these players instead of just flushing it and getting better players?? Maybe after 2 years of abysmal failure nobody wants to come play for us anymore??? Truly perplexing. I 100% do not understand the approach. I believe he greatly underestimated the talent and level of competition in CUSA. This is not the Big South. And it's not even close.

What's Nick gonna do next year after all these guys get smoked again by superior talent at North Texas, Western Kentucky, Marshall, Charlotte, FIU, FAU.....We are literally one of the least talented teams in CUSA now and it shows....BIG TIME. This roster needs a complete make-over, not a few set piece changes. We need to sign at least 3 and more likely 4 quality players with this class. Fussell is a great start but we can't just take 1 more player with this class. There is some hope with Jalen Jordan, Jordan Davis, and Dishman getting healthy.....but even with better players I really question Nick's ability to coach in this league. Our inability to get easy baskets and the fact that he's overseen one of the worst defensive teams in our history is clearly concerning...

These government employed and protected schmucks (McPhee & Massaro) that allowed this to happen have no fvcking accountability or self respect whatsoever and it trickles down. If this were a private company they would have all been fired 10 years ago but instead the government bureaucracy protects, emboldens, and continues to enable this $hitshow.

Yep, that about sums it up.

The silence from Murph & Cope is beyond ridiculous. Massaro & McPhee are providing a future case study on how to run off fans and core supporters, forever.

If I was in charge of screwing a program up so badly, I would hope that I would have the good sense to resign. I'd hope I at least respected the fans enough to admit to them that they deserve to try to find someone else who can get the job done better.

It might be different if the team was demonstrating signs of solid improvement. Other than for looking better for one or two games, it almost seems like the team is getting worse.
 

sWiley

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kingaling42 sure has gone dark on us.

:D
What’s he gonna say? What has happened here under mcdevitt is indefensible. He always likes to point out the problems with Kermit’s former players, and that’s fine, the whole team sucks and I agree Sims, Green, and whichever Kermit remnants are still here have played like garbage.

But that excuse 100% goes away next year. If nick is that down on sims, take his scholarship and give it to a JuCo PG. problem solved. The time for excuses is over going forward. It’s time to see what mcdevitt can or can’t do in year 3. There is no excuses going forward we should be competing for CUSA championship next year and fighting for 20 wins. Anything less is a failure. We are not paying this guy Top 5 G5 money for .500 results in year 3
 

kingaling42

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kingaling42 sure has gone dark on us.

:D

I’ve still been here posting.. evidently you missed those.. still don't know what y’alls fascination is with me and my activity here..

Unlike others I haven’t had much more to say and my original posts speak to how I still feel.. I don’t have to state the same tired crap after each game or start new topics just to restate the same things already said.. I leave the needless repetition to you all..
 

sWiley

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Maybe we wouldn’t have to keep repeating ourselves if this team and coaching staff wasn’t repeatedly getting their brains beat in every time they step on the court.

Have you ever seen a game where 3 starting guards don’t make a 2 point shot? Have you ever even heard of such a thing ? That actually happened our last game against Rice.

Our players might not be very good, but that’s a huge sign that we have a serious coaching problem as well. Good teams find ways to get easy baskets, play good defense, and relentlessly rebound. We do none of these things.....

Kingaling, do you feel like McDevitt underestimated the talent level in CUSA and underestimated the caliber of player he would need to win here ?
 

kingaling42

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2 of those guards were recruited by the previous staff- not sure how you’d like me to answer regarding Sims & Green without folks getting all riled up.. overall I’d say there have been some early misses in recruiting but there are good signs for several players as well.. the focus is unfairly on all of them to be impactful right away because of all the roster issues in general.. I think most teams rely on upperclassmen as I’ve previously stated- some of the problems are found there as that group has been weak and I can’t imagine it’s the ideal player support system for onboarding freshmen.. I think the system requires time and player leadership since it’s so different from the previous staff but don’t mistake that as a defense- I think this team is clearly behind the acceptable learning curve/growing pains and very deficient in solid guard play- without better guard play the pressure (foul trouble/help-recovery, rotations) it puts on the interior players makes it hard for me to truly gauge potential down low.. I like the HS guys that have been brought in and while none of them have been terribly consistent I think we’ve all seen potential.. I even think Crump is figuring some things out although I know you’re not particularly high on him.. he’s still better than Massenburg IMHO.. ultimately these guys have a lot of learning together still to do and it’s certainly not a positive thing to say that this late in year 2..

I don’t think the staff has underestimated the talent level in the league- I could argue easily that they had more talent overall here at UNC Asheville.. I think the need to bring in so many guys both years has contributed to some misses- I have no idea about the guys sitting outside of Dishman.. I wonder less about the athleticism of the guys brought in and more so about their basketball IQ and toughness.. that is what’s missing to me.
 
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sWiley

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I would agree he recruited more talented players to UNC Asheville. Without question. Yet still never won a post-season tournament game there. Concerning.

Now, he is recruiting lesser talent to MT, in a more difficult league to win....you see where I'm going with this? As a fan, do you know how demoralizing that is? Especially after the great run we just had???

Plenty of freshmen and Year 2 players (True sophomore/Redshirt freshmen) come onto teams and make impacts. I would imagine a lot of those players who transferred out of UNC-Asheville to Power 5 programs did some serious damage as Year 1 and Year 2 players.....Also look no further than some of the other teams we played this year out of conference.....The Ohio PG with the floppy hair bring back some painful memories? Jason Preston, a true sophomore, starting for Ohio and playing great. Being young is not an automatic excuse for sucking. There are all freshmen teams for CUSA....will we have any players on that team? Doubt it. That's a bad sign, considering how young our team supposedly is.

If I'm being completely honest, the only young player I have any confidence in is Tyson Jackson. You can argue it's too early to tell, but I just don't see Crump, Lawrence, or Millin leading this team to any big wins or championships. Not even close, actually. And you are probably lying to yourself if you see otherwise.

Have you ever gone back and watched some of our games when we had good teams here at MT. We had a roster full of men. Go watch our game against Minnesota. Look at our size, athleticism, the fundamentals displayed. That's a Big Ten team in an NCAA tournament game, seeded #5, and we physically imposed our will and flat out whipped them. Pay close attention to the defensive effort, the denial of passing lanes, the physical size we have at every position to match a big time program. Go watch the Michigan State game. It was no fluke. We led that game wire-to-wire and never backed down, answering every run with a run of our own and never letting the Spartans take the lead. We were a #15 seed, they were a #2 seed and picked to win the majority of brackets. We were the better team. We dominated them with a roster full of men playing sound, fundamental basketball. There might not have been another team in the country who could have beaten us that day.

When you go back and look at our previous rosters, full of men and terrific basketball players, and then watch our teams over the last 2 years.....I literally don't even know what to say. I understand that college sports are cyclical, but good grief. We've gone from having men on the roster to having high school boys. We are talent deficient and dominated physically in almost every game we play. Nick seems to like these rail thin guards that are taller with a bigger wing span, but they just get physically dominated by a smaller guy who has superior core and upper body strength. Again, this is not the Big South. We play in a league where the good teams have grown @$$ men on their rosters and you better believe even more so when you get to the NCAA tournament. Our defense and effort is essentially non-existent most of the time. We can't make shots. We can't create easy baskets. We can't guard the 3 point line. Our fundamentals suck. There are instances where we can't even complete simple passes. Players are regressing when they should be progressing.

I've been watching college basketball a long time. And while I admittedly don't follow other programs as closely, I cannot in my memory ever remember a team that was so good, so dominant in it's league and even in most OOC games become so bad so fast. Like a light switch we went from being a Top 25 team and program to a bottom 25 team and program all while paying a Top 5 G5 salary. I've never seen or heard of this happening to another program at this magnitude. Ever. The whole situation is quite fitting though, we are used to absolute misery, torture, and being let down here at Middle Tennessee.

What the F is going on? How long are we supposed to accept this as fans?
 
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crposton

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I would agree he recruited more talented players to UNC Asheville. Without question. Yet still never won a post-season tournament game there. Concerning.

Now, he is recruiting lesser talent to MT, in a more difficult league to win....you see where I'm going with this? As a fan, do you know how demoralizing that is? Especially after the great run we just had???

Plenty of freshmen and Year 2 players (True sophomore/Redshirt freshmen) come onto teams and make impacts. I would imagine a lot of those players who transferred out of UNC-Asheville to Power 5 programs did some serious damage as Year 1 and Year 2 players.....Also look no further than some of the other teams we played this year out of conference.....The Ohio PG with the floppy hair bring back some painful memories? Jason Preston, a true sophomore, starting for Ohio and playing great. Being young is not an automatic excuse for sucking. There are all freshmen teams for CUSA....will we have any players on that team? Doubt it. That's a bad sign, considering how young our team supposedly is.

If I'm being completely honest, the only young player I have any confidence in is Tyson Jackson. You can argue it's too early to tell, but I just don't see Crump, Lawrence, or Millin leading this team to any big wins or championships. Not even close, actually. And you are probably lying to yourself if you see otherwise.

Have you ever gone back and watched some of our games when we had good teams here at MT. We had a roster full of men. Go watch our game against Minnesota. Look at our size, athleticism, the fundamentals displayed. That's a Big Ten team in an NCAA tournament game, seeded #5, and we physically imposed our will and flat out whipped them. Pay close attention to the defensive effort, the denial of passing lanes, the physical size we have at every position to match a big time program. Go watch the Michigan State game. It was no fluke. We led that game wire-to-wire and never backed down, answering every run with a run of our own and never letting the Spartans take the lead. We were a #15 seed, they were a #2 seed and picked to win the majority of brackets. We were the better team. We dominated them with a roster full of men playing sound, fundamental basketball. There might not have been another team in the country who could have beaten us that day.

When you go back and look at our previous rosters, full of men and terrific basketball players, and then watch our teams over the last 2 years.....I literally don't even know what to say. I understand that college sports are cyclical, but good grief. We've gone from having men on the roster to having high school boys. We are talent deficient and dominated physically in almost every game we play. Nick seems to like these rail thin guards that are taller with a bigger wing span, but they just get physically dominated by a smaller guy who has superior core and upper body strength. Again, this is not the Big South. We play in a league where the good teams have grown @$$ men on their rosters and you better believe even more so when you get to the NCAA tournament. Our defense and effort is essentially non-existent most of the time. We can't make shots. We can't create easy baskets. We can't guard the 3 point line. Our fundamentals suck. There are instances where we can't even complete simple passes. Players are regressing when they should be progressing.

I've been watching college basketball a long time. And while I admittedly don't follow other programs as closely, I cannot in my memory ever remember a team that was so good, so dominant in it's league and even in most OOC games become so bad so fast. Like a light switch we went from being a Top 25 team and program to a bottom 25 team and program all while paying a Top 5 G5 salary. I've never seen or heard of this happening to another program at this magnitude. Ever. The whole situation is quite fitting though, we are used to absolute misery, torture, and being let down here at Middle Tennessee.

What the F is going on? How long are we supposed to accept this as fans?
The main thing I wonder about is why does he seem to be missing on players more than he did in Asheville? He obviously has recruited players that were overlooked that turned out to be great players. Why does it seem to be different here? It is too early to tell on the freshmen this year, but I do agree it does not seem like he is getting the same results. There have been flashes from Lawrence, but it should be expected a player that has D1 offers can go off every now and then. As far as the postseason the wins Kermit had were great, but he really only went past the second round once in a somewhat meaningful postseason tournament. At this point he is going to get a year 3. All I can do is hope something changes. I don't have a lot of confidence it will.
 

crposton

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2 of those guards were recruited by the previous staff- not sure how you’d like me to answer regarding Sims & Green without folks getting all riled up.. overall I’d say there have been some early misses in recruiting but there are good signs for several players as well.. the focus is unfairly on all of them to be impactful right away because of all the roster issues in general.. I think most teams rely on upperclassmen as I’ve previously stated- some of the problems are found there as that group has been weak and I can’t imagine it’s the ideal player support system for onboarding freshmen.. I think the system requires time and player leadership since it’s so different from the previous staff but don’t mistake that as a defense- I think this team is clearly behind the acceptable learning curve/growing pains and very deficient in solid guard play- without better guard play the pressure (foul trouble/help-recovery, rotations) it puts on the interior players makes it hard for me to truly gauge potential down low.. I like the HS guys that have been brought in and while none of them have been terribly consistent I think we’ve all seen potential.. I even think Crump is figuring some things out although I know you’re not particularly high on him.. he’s still better than Massenburg IMHO.. ultimately these guys have a lot of learning together still to do and it’s certainly not a positive thing to say that this late in year 2..

I don’t think the staff has underestimated the talent level in the league- I could argue easily that they had more talent overall here at UNC Asheville.. I think the need to bring in so many guys both years has contributed to some misses- I have no idea about the guys sitting outside of Dishman.. I wonder less about the athleticism of the guys brought in and more so about their basketball IQ and toughness.. that is what’s missing to me.
I agree Crump is better than Massenburg. Not to be too hard on Massenburg, but I just checked his stats at Central Florida and he has played in 14 games averaging 2.2 points and 2.7 rebounds. He is shooting 87.5% from the FT line though. Just to put in a positive for him. He was a big miss from Kermit along with Davion Thomas who is averaging 4.8 points and 2.7 rebounds for 9-22 Troy. The cupboard was bare for post players when Nick took over. That is not an excuse for what is happening. It is just the truth.
 
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MTFNBY5

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Somewhat related to the MT men's BkB issue: I just noticed that the trio of Belmont sophomores (one of whom is from nearby Thompson St.) all made the first team All-OVC squad.
In McDevitt's defense Davis did not leave him three freshman of that caliber, not even close, with which to start his tenure. But, with that said: In his third class it's time for McDevitt to show his recruiting chops and bring in a couple more game changers to go along with Fussell (wish they could all be freshmen but it looks as if that's not in the cards).
We need a reason for fans to come back and a having players with whom they can identify with over time is one factor.
 
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MT01

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Somewhat related to the MT men's BkB issue: I just noticed that the trio of Belmont sophomores (one of whom is from nearby Thompson St.) all made the first team All-OVC squad.
In McDevitt's defense Davis did not leave him three freshman of that caliber, not even close, with which to start his tenure. But, with that said: In his third class it's time for McDevitt to show his recruiting chops and bring in a couple more game changers to go along with Fussell (wish they could all be freshmen but it looks as if that's not in the cards).
We need a reason for fans to come back and a having players with whom they can identify with over time is one factor.

You do realize the three individuals in that class who would have been sophomores this year made up our best class ever and CNM wasn’t able to keep a single one.

This is kind of what I have been talking about. Even though I know this wasn’t intentional on your part it’s very easy to overlook the actual events that transpired and look to place blame at the feet of someone who isn’t here anymore instead of the one who is. Again, I know that’s not what you intended, but this is what is happening repeatedly here.

CNM has failed. He should be removed. He won’t be and most everyone will be optimistic next season with the belief it has to get better, but just being better than where we are now isn’t even close to acceptable. We are so far away from even being remotely competitive better doesn’t even necessarily get us to .500. It’s so discouraging what’s been lost. I fear we will never get it back again or at least for a long long time. Achieving the level of success we did from the type of conference we are in is so incredibly difficult. Just disappointing no matter what angle I look at it.
 

kingaling42

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You do realize the three individuals in that class who would have been sophomores this year made up our best class ever and CNM wasn’t able to keep a single one.

This is kind of what I have been talking about. Even though I know this wasn’t intentional on your part it’s very easy to overlook the actual events that transpired and look to place blame at the feet of someone who isn’t here anymore instead of the one who is. Again, I know that’s not what you intended, but this is what is happening repeatedly here.

CNM has failed. He should be removed. He won’t be and most everyone will be optimistic next season with the belief it has to get better, but just being better than where we are now isn’t even close to acceptable. We are so far away from even being remotely competitive better doesn’t even necessarily get us to .500. It’s so discouraging what’s been lost. I fear we will never get it back again or at least for a long long time. Achieving the level of success we did from the type of conference we are in is so incredibly difficult. Just disappointing no matter what angle I look at it.

You can blame CNM for a bunch of stuff.. but retaining those 3 recruits isn't one of them.. they were recruited away long before the coaching decision had been made.. short of retaining Case or Hamilton as HC those kids were gone. No one else had a chance at MT.
 
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MTFNBY5

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You do realize the three individuals in that class who would have been sophomores this year made up our best class ever and CNM wasn’t able to keep a single one.

This is kind of what I have been talking about. Even though I know this wasn’t intentional on your part it’s very easy to overlook the actual events that transpired and look to place blame at the feet of someone who isn’t here anymore instead of the one who is. Again, I know that’s not what you intended, but this is what is happening repeatedly here.

CNM has failed. He should be removed. He won’t be and most everyone will be optimistic next season with the belief it has to get better, but just being better than where we are now isn’t even close to acceptable. We are so far away from even being remotely competitive better doesn’t even necessarily get us to .500. It’s so discouraging what’s been lost. I fear we will never get it back again or at least for a long long time. Achieving the level of success we did from the type of conference we are in is so incredibly difficult. Just disappointing no matter what angle I look at it.

Perhaps we are talking past each other but: Byrd left Belmont after those three players freshmen years and he didn't try to take any of them with him as he went out the door.
 
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You can blame CNM for a bunch of stuff.. but retaining those 3 recruits isn't one of them.. they were recruited away long before the coaching decision had been made.. short of retaining Case or Hamilton as HC those kids were gone. No one else had a chance at MT.
These are facts: Ronnie told Grensing he would help with those recruits to stay at MT should Grensing get hired. No guarantees but that was the conversation. CNM made no contact to those recruits for at least 48 hours after being named the new coach. If he had been tenacious right off the bat, things may have been different in retaining them. Again no guarantees. Once those recruits decided to release themselves from MT then the coaches who had relationships with them are going to help them find a place. CKD did not have a master plan of leaving MT for Ole Miss and snagging these recruits. Those are the facts that have been misrepresented on this board for two years. Other facts at the time, Grensing had assistants lined up who had recruits lined up fo come to MT. Also at the time of hire the fall out with current players on roster were unknown.
 

MT01

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These are facts: Ronnie told Grensing he would help with those recruits to stay at MT should Grensing get hired. No guarantees but that was the conversation. CNM made no contact to those recruits for at least 48 hours after being named the new coach. If he had been tenacious right off the bat, things may have been different in retaining them. Again no guarantees. Once those recruits decided to release themselves from MT then the coaches who had relationships with them are going to help them find a place. CKD did not have a master plan of leaving MT for Ole Miss and snagging these recruits. Those are the facts that have been misrepresented on this board for two years. Other facts at the time, Grensing had assistants lined up who had recruits lined up fo come to MT. Also at the time of hire the fall out with current players on roster were unknown.

There are people here who aren't going to let facts get in the way.

Thank you for your response. Though Grensing wasn't my preferred choice, it's obvious as hell that we would be a hell of a lot better off than we are now. And the odds of keeping things going would have had a much higher chance.
 

blueraiderJT

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I would be careful making statements like that on a public forum
Who cares aboiut MT anymore? Besides, I believe it was true. Greg not getting the job derailed everything here. If he had gotten the job I thoroughly believe he could have kept one of them at least and would have gotten better recruits than CMD ever could. It's Massaro's biggest blunder to date. CMD was a horrible and I mean horrible hire. Probably the worst we've made in over 25 years. I don't care what anyone says, the proof is in the pudding and this pudding is rancid AF.
 
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sWiley

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Who cares aboiut MT anymore? Besides, I believe it was true. Greg not getting the job derailed everything here. If he had gotten the job I thoroughly believe he could have kept one of them at least and would have gotten better recruits than CMD ever could. It's Massaro's biggest blunder to date. CMD was a horrible and I mean horrible hire. Probably the worst we've made in over 25 years. I don't care what anyone says, the proof is in the pudding and this pudding is rancid AF.

My issue is the recruits we have signed. As crazy as this sounds, I'm not too terribly upset about the recent results. Sure, it's disturbing. And the way we are losing and lack of effort, defense, and poor coaching is obviously not OK....But what really concerns me is the future and going forward and I just don't think we have the players on the roster, as currently constructed, to compete for a CUSA title and 20 wins next season. Or the season after that. It's reasonable to say his first two years are a wash, a mulligan, were going to be rebuilding years, whatever you wanna call it. He came into a difficult situation, lost half his roster to stupid $hit, and had to rebuild. We can point fingers all day at whose fault it is, did he really have to boot Tae Tae and Dixon, etc.? Shelton-Schzmidt walked away for religion. Farquhar was a gamble and the knee didn't hold up. It was bad. But it's time to move on from all that. It doesn't take 3, 4, 5 years to put together a good roster of college b-ball players and I can provide examples for days to support that statement.

Anyway, My problem/concern is all the players he brought in to fill the players we lost. Recruiting is the lifeblood of any program, and, our roster is now filled with athletes originally destined for UNC-Asheville (that don't appear to be panning out) and inferior D1 transfers from programs like EKU and Missouri State. On what planet was that ever going to be good enough to win here at MT? Sure, if they happened to be the MaCio Teague's of the world then it would have been okay, but it's been anything but that. The only potential championship caliber recruit he's brought here has been Tyson Jackson. Even C.J. Jones, the former 4 star Arkansas player, has disappointed. We have clear coaching problems and I have a very real problem with the recruits he has signed thus far. Jury is out on Jalen Jordan and Jordan Davis, and I have high hopes for them, but it's gonna take more than just those two. You also have to worry about attrition, injuries, etc. We can't even find a good starting 5, much less begin talking about depth....

This class is truly make or break going forward. We have to sign a higher caliber of athlete and we cannot afford to miss anymore, period. But after the 2 worst seasons in our history, I'm really not sure he can pull the recruits and talent we really need to get back to greatness. This class is everything, which is why I keep saying we need to sign more than 2 players. It's time to flush the bad takes and get it corrected before it's too late.

I already pledged this on the premium forum but I'll repeat it here. I'm in for $250 to the BRAA if we sign Rudi Williams & Donte Houston Jr. - Others pledged an additional $750 after my pledge, so we are up to $1000 if we sign those players.

If we could sign Christian Fussell, Donte Houston Jr., and Rudi Williams I would have some faith going forward on the sheer basis of the talent those 3 would bring. Rudi would start right away, provide instant offense and give us our floor general with a superior assist to turnover ratio. Fussell and Houston could provide depth behind Jackson & Dishman, and hopefully Jalen Jordan and Jordan Davis could fill the remaining spots out. That's not a bad group of players right there. Not bad at all. Probably just wishful thinking on my part though
 
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TrueBlue147

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I agree Crump is better than Massenburg. Not to be too hard on Massenburg, but I just checked his stats at Central Florida and he has played in 14 games averaging 2.2 points and 2.7 rebounds. He is shooting 87.5% from the FT line though. Just to put in a positive for him. He was a big miss from Kermit along with Davion Thomas who is averaging 4.8 points and 2.7 rebounds for 9-22 Troy. The cupboard was bare for post players when Nick took over. That is not an excuse for what is happening. It is just the truth.

This will be his third recruiting class. How many more years are you going to keep using that excuse? It does not take years to turn around a basketball team. It can literally be done in one year.
 

kingaling42

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These are facts: Ronnie told Grensing he would help with those recruits to stay at MT should Grensing get hired. No guarantees but that was the conversation. CNM made no contact to those recruits for at least 48 hours after being named the new coach. If he had been tenacious right off the bat, things may have been different in retaining them. Again no guarantees. Once those recruits decided to release themselves from MT then the coaches who had relationships with them are going to help them find a place. CKD did not have a master plan of leaving MT for Ole Miss and snagging these recruits. Those are the facts that have been misrepresented on this board for two years. Other facts at the time, Grensing had assistants lined up who had recruits lined up fo come to MT. Also at the time of hire the fall out with current players on roster were unknown.

Right... so all collusion aside.. it was a level playing field for any HC new hire to retain those 3 recruits with the recruiting coaches actively guiding them in their own personal interests vs those of MTSU.. got it! Sounds like the narrative everyone else has been describing- you’re simply confirming it.
 

sWiley

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It certainly confirms what I suspected all along. Ronnie still had the ear of those recruits, actually new signees as they had already inked with Middle Tennessee, after already planning and accepting his new gig at Ole Miss.

Again, Mrs Grensing, I would really be careful about what you write on this public forum. Especially if it involves recruits.

Any contact from Ronnie after leaving MT with those kids or their families, in any capacity, would be a very serious NCAA violation. I'm quite certain a Level 1 violation infact, the most serious of them all. That is roster tampering.
 

dukewayne

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I no longer keep up with the behind the scenes developments in MT athletics. There were plenty of years when I was fairly informed. Now, I'm just responding and speculating on what is made known to the general public. For example, I was completely unaware of the final coaching candidates including CNM until he was publicly announced.

From details that have since become openly talked about, it sounds like the hiring process/transition was a sh!* show. If the stories are true about McPhee overriding Massaro, it makes me wonder if McPhee wanted CNM simply for being a likable and good guy. Good traits to be sure, but a coach with top skill & experience should have been the primary consideration. Once the requisite skills & abilities to win championships were identified, then all of those personal traits or "high character" could be be confirmed and utilized to further narrow the finalists lists.

It is all a shame as so much has been pi$$ed away. Given the demand for Kermit for a few years, I was thinking that certainly Massaro already had plans A, B, and C in place to bring in a new coach that could continue the big success at MT. Boy was I ever wrong. Allowing this sh!# show to continue should alone cost someone their job, in my opinion.

So when CNM was brought in, I was completely open to him having a good shot at succeeding here. With the roster turnover, I was willing to extend some patience for him to get his players & system in place. A pretty bad 1st year was a mulligan of sorts since he walked into a big turnover of roster. At the start of this season, I wasn't even expecting CNM to compete at the top of the conference. With new players and the 2nd year, I was simply expecting to see improvement this year to build confidence for a good run next year. I thought 12 - 15 wins would have been possible or even reasonable this year especially considering the 3 non-D1 games! Sadly as the season went along, there really wasn't any improvement being evidenced.

For me, the Murray St game was the huge red flag for a team that didn't look ready or motivated to play. With those continued performances of poor effort, my confidence began to erode. While I would like for a good guy like CNM to succeed here, it is sadly looking like the team is continuing to regress even as this season comes to an end.

Clearly, I've seen enough at this point to believe a new HC is needed next week. I seriously doubt dumb & dumber will make that decision. From what I've seen thus far, I have little to no confidence that next year will be much better. Maybe the win total could be padded if a bunch of cupcakes were scheduled in non-conference, but those wins would essentially be meaningless.

It seems by the recent push of JUCO offers that there is some amount of desperation for some fast improvement next season. With the same coaching, I'm not expecting much in the way of different results. Yea, some added good players would likely show some flashes here and there, but I think they would end up regressing just like the team and players have this year. My point here is that I don't see this as a player problem; I see this as a coaching problem.

I would be glad if CNM proves me wrong. I'm not anti-CNM, I just think he is in over his head here.
 

blueraiderJT

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This reuilding nonsense is BS after 2 years of this dude and we still can't even pass the ball without committing like 23 turnovers and our D is swiss cheese against CUSA competition. Basic fundamentals are not being stressed or taught. I've only been saying this for 2 friggin seasons now since we lost Kermit and Greg. It's a literal sh!t show and what's Massaro's answer? We wait and do nothing. Give him more time to bury us even more which he will do. Who has he recruited? Who has he brought in to right the ship? I mean come on.

He might have been great where he came from but here, he's a disaster and we've somehow gotten worse, not better. A shell of what we were in less than 2 years.
 

blueraiderJT

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Right... so all collusion aside.. it was a level playing field for any HC new hire to retain those 3 recruits with the recruiting coaches actively guiding them in their own personal interests vs those of MTSU.. got it! Sounds like the narrative everyone else has been describing- you’re simply confirming it.

Yeah, but CMD can't recruit for sh!t here so it was less than level with that dude.
 

blueraiderJT

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It certainly confirms what I suspected all along. Ronnie still had the ear of those recruits, actually new signees as they had already inked with Middle Tennessee, after already planning and accepting his new gig at Ole Miss.

Again, Mrs Grensing, I would really be careful about what you write on this public forum. Especially if it involves recruits.

Any contact from Ronnie after leaving MT with those kids or their families, in any capacity, would be a very serious NCAA violation. I'm quite certain a Level 1 violation infact, the most serious of them all. That is roster tampering.

It's 2 years after the fact and hearsay at best. I believe her though. Massaro is an absolute moron for choosing this dude over Greg.
 
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crposton

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This will be his third recruiting class. How many more years are you going to keep using that excuse? It does not take years to turn around a basketball team. It can literally be done in one year.
I am not using it as an excuse right now or going forward. Just stating the fact that when he got here the cupboard was bare as far as post players.
 

MTFNBY5

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These are facts: Ronnie told Grensing he would help with those recruits to stay at MT should Grensing get hired. No guarantees but that was the conversation. CNM made no contact to those recruits for at least 48 hours after being named the new coach. If he had been tenacious right off the bat, things may have been different in retaining them. Again no guarantees. Once those recruits decided to release themselves from MT then the coaches who had relationships with them are going to help them find a place. CKD did not have a master plan of leaving MT for Ole Miss and snagging these recruits. Those are the facts that have been misrepresented on this board for two years. Other facts at the time, Grensing had assistants lined up who had recruits lined up fo come to MT. Also at the time of hire the fall out with current players on roster were unknown.

To build upon your post:
Since in BkB, more than any sport, recruiting is the lifeblood of a program the first things any coach applying for a job should ask himself is: Can I recruit this job? Are my recruiting contacts sufficient? Am I "in on" any prospects who I can go after for this school? Must I expand my recruiting area? What assistants can I hire who will help me in recruiting to this school?
Additionally an AD (or committee or president) who is interviewing applicants should ask similar questions.

Grensing apparently had a plan should he have been hired
Davis, by taking Hamilton (why is a Duke FB players such a good BkB recruiter?) had a plan.
McDevitt either didn't have a plan or it didn't work, otherwise why did we recruit Farquar, project Crump, and a footballer in his first class? I have often wondered just who McDevitt tried to recruit and lost out on once he had the job. Those name would be interesting.
 
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sWiley

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I know he wanted dexter Dennis which would have been a huge get. We had to settle instead.
 

kingaling42

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I know he wanted dexter Dennis which would have been a huge get. We had to settle instead.

There have been some Plan C acquisitions for sure as Plans A & B didn't commit.. but that's recruiting in general. Chapel Hill recruited highly ranked players but that certainly didn't translate to success this year and I don't believe that anyone thinks that Roy is in over his head..
 

FranklinRaider315

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There have been some Plan C acquisitions for sure as Plans A & B didn't commit.. but that's recruiting in general. Chapel Hill recruited highly ranked players but that certainly didn't translate to success this year and I don't believe that anyone thinks that Roy is in over his head..
Roy Williams has a down year after winning a National Championship in ‘17 as well as ‘09 and you want to invoke his name in the same breath with McDevitt???

Unbelievable.

Your buddy couldn’t compete with a bunch of CUSA walking dead for two straight seasons.
 

kingaling42

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Roy Williams has a down year after winning a National Championship in ‘17 as well as ‘09 and you want to invoke his name in the same breath with McDevitt???

Unbelievable.

Your buddy couldn’t compete with a bunch of CUSA walking dead for two straight seasons.

I was simply commenting on recruiting and that the impact it has on performance isn’t always related.. I didn't mention CNMs name at all- you did that on your own.. calm down.
 
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