The vast majority of the fans on the MAC board want WKU and us. Its just fans, but all the rumors are both of us.
MAC talk
- Thread starter BRaiderDave
- Start date
We deserve everything that happens to us, including up to complete dissolution of our athletics programs.
This is what happens when you ignore your major revenue sports and have your head up your @$$ for 2 decades.
Ask yourself this: What major upgrades have our football program or basketball program received in the last 20 years?
Answer: Zero
Meanwhile, everyone else (and I mean everyone else) has invested millions into their programs, fired/hired new coaches in an effort to be better, and at least put forth SOME effort to be better.
Again, we deserve everything that happens to us.
Very good news and the right step to make.
As others have said, this would make Stock the second highest paid coach in the conference, which in addition to the CUSA buyout fee would make the budget untenable.
There are a lot of changes coming and they will come swiftly.
As others have said, this would make Stock the second highest paid coach in the conference, which in addition to the CUSA buyout fee would make the budget untenable.
There are a lot of changes coming and they will come swiftly.
"Proven hoops upside". Yeah, but not with this current coach. He gotta go ASAFP.
Wiley. This is a big win for you. You get to see the Raiders up close and personal being in Ohio! 
Wiley. This is a big win for you. You get to see the Raiders up close and personal being in Ohio!
I live in Columbus but let me tell you, Ohio sucks. A lot of people don't realize it is the 6th most populous state in the Union and has TERRIBLE weather + state taxes, city taxes, local taxes, school district taxes, take a shit taxes, and more. It is a liberal hell hole masquerading as a red state because Trump won it and we have a Republican Gov. I'm only here because I have the best job I will ever have in my life, which makes it very hard to walk away from (Essentially, I work 20 hrs/week but I'm paid 40hrs/week salary. I can also go into and leave work when I want). Make no mistake, without this job, I would 100% be living in Tennessee or back home in Texas w/ rest of family. I despise this place. The only reason people live here is because they quite simply don't know any better because they've never lived anywhere else or left the state of Ohio. If they lived/worked in a state like Florida/Texas/Tennessee for a few months they would understand how bad the government here fleeces them with state/local/city/school taxes. They quite simply just don't know any better. Anyway
The MAC will be good for basketball (i think) if McDevitt or whoever we replace him with is comfortable recruiting up north. I cannot stress enough how difficult this makes recruiting for all of our sports programs by going to a northern conference. Recruiting is all about relationships, relationships that have been built over years and decades. And our coaches have relationships almost exclusively in southern states. It's going to be more difficult to recruit players into a northern conference from southern states. I know this for a fact because I've been around our staff and have literally heard the words from their own mouths about southern kids not wanting to play up north (yes, RaiderDoug, we know some kids will play for northern schools, but the vast majority will not and transfer home if they do sign up north)
Our staff will 100% have to also start recruiting up north....but then you have to ask yourself....can we recruit (effectively) both southern AND northern states? Our coaches cannot develop relationships with northern high school coaches over night.... Coaches typically have areas assigned to recruit, for example Dearmon has Arkansas and some other areas. So who's giving up what areas to recruit kids up north now?
This is going to be a major challenge for recruiting and will likely take years to figure out and wade through until we arrive at something that is hopefully effective. I fully expect MT to continue being a doormat in football and basketball for the vast foreseeable future. Outside of the perennial cellar dwellers, these MAC schools are much better on the gridiron than people here realize, and you're about to find out. MT is going to struggle mightily just to be .500 in conference in football and basketball. We are going to lose just as much if not more than in CUSA.
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You get a conference championship game at Ford Field for football and Quicken Arena for Basketball.
Where is the MAC tournament played? Quicken too?
Gotta be better than elementary school curtains.
Gotta be better than elementary school curtains.
Do you know how hard it would be to exclusively recruit southern kids for a northern conference?
Power 5's can somewhat get away with recruiting out of their geographical area because kids are more willing to sign with say a Minnesota if they're from Florida.
But find me one G5 school that is stocked full of players that play outside of their geographical footprint.
I'll wait.
Nashville's crime rate is double the national average:
Actually, violent crime is much higher in Nashville than similar sized Columbus:
Even in little ole Murfreesboro, property crime is higher than the national average and traffic is getting to be bad.
People who don't live in the Nashville area think it's going to be easy and pleasant. They never had to drive in on I-24 every morning and have punks street racing on 24 at night, weaving in and out at 100+ mph. Nashville does NOT resemble the laid back "Leiper's Fork" images on the country music videos.
If the MTSU basketball program is smart, they will recruit the way Belmont does it. Belmont's best basketball player BTW is from Columbus OH. But Belmont knows they won't be beating out UCLA and Kansas for recruits. They recruit against Butler and Murray. And win just enough of those battles to make it to the big dance often.
So, they will have to change the recruiting strategy... better than clinging to a conference that is about to no longer exist. Or dropping down to FCS. Or ending up in (name of league here) with UTEP.
Actually, violent crime is much higher in Nashville than similar sized Columbus:
Even in little ole Murfreesboro, property crime is higher than the national average and traffic is getting to be bad.
People who don't live in the Nashville area think it's going to be easy and pleasant. They never had to drive in on I-24 every morning and have punks street racing on 24 at night, weaving in and out at 100+ mph. Nashville does NOT resemble the laid back "Leiper's Fork" images on the country music videos.
If the MTSU basketball program is smart, they will recruit the way Belmont does it. Belmont's best basketball player BTW is from Columbus OH. But Belmont knows they won't be beating out UCLA and Kansas for recruits. They recruit against Butler and Murray. And win just enough of those battles to make it to the big dance often.
So, they will have to change the recruiting strategy... better than clinging to a conference that is about to no longer exist. Or dropping down to FCS. Or ending up in (name of league here) with UTEP.
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I mis-timed our arrival to Ford Field in ‘05 (to watch Memphis-Akron) taking the Downtown People Mover (DPM) from our Ren-Cen hotel. We had to wait outside in the cold for 30 minutes. Lake effect snow and bitter wind chills are pretty much guaranteed after Halloween anywhere in the MAC. Do any of them play football indoors? I haven’t checked.
I do know one thing though, the folks to our west will never play MT in Football or Men’s Basketball again unless it’s a postseason bowl, tournament game or ESPN “encourages” it. I’m in favor of playing every year OOC because it would make a great regional rivalry. That modern day record of 5-2 in Football in favor of MT will stand for a LONG time unless ESPN says do it.
Buffalo from the MAC has guys from:
Georgia
D.C.
North Carolina
Virginia
Oklahoma
Florida
Texas
Iowa
South Carolina
New Mexico via Switzerland
British Columbia and other provinces of Canada
It's not like the campus of MTSU is moving to Ohio or Michigan. Geez.
Georgia
D.C.
North Carolina
Virginia
Oklahoma
Florida
Texas
Iowa
South Carolina
New Mexico via Switzerland
British Columbia and other provinces of Canada
It's not like the campus of MTSU is moving to Ohio or Michigan. Geez.
To my knowledge, no, and the vast majority of their stadiums are dumps built 20, 30, 40+ years ago. Off the top of my head I cannot think of one nice stadium in the MAC, or even a stadium that was built remotely recently. Western Michigan did just get a huge (kind of flukey if you ask me) $60 million or so donation so I'm sure they will have something nice, eventually. But the vast majority of stadiums/facilities are a dump and old. Think UL-Monroe facilities x12.
The MAC is a content league that really just gets by. Their members know they are not going anywhere so they don't really strive for much in the facilities department. It is the poorest G5 league. Their coaches are paid the worst, and their TV payouts are the lowest.
Wait until you watch a Tuesday night game on a late November evening between a Kent St. and EMU or the like. You'll spot around 100 people in the stands, at best. And I really mean that, 100 people at most.
Again, we'll fit right in.
Just wait until they get a taste of "The Rick Stockstill". That will bring out fans that haven't thought about attending a game in a long time. Kent, EMU will have standing room only.
One of the longest G-5/4 tenured bowl eligible coaches the North has ever seen.
He could be to the North what David Hasselhoff is to Germany.
One of the longest G-5/4 tenured bowl eligible coaches the North has ever seen.
He could be to the North what David Hasselhoff is to Germany.
You honestly might be on to something here. King Mediocre himself joining the Mediocre American Conference.
So... they (Buffalo) recruit some in their back yard (NY/NJ) and some nationally.
Worked for Leipold. He took a nothing-burger of a program to 3 straight bowls.
Worked for Leipold. He took a nothing-burger of a program to 3 straight bowls.
1. Why do you think we're going to be so far outside of our geographical footprint that it'll make much of a difference?
Take Atlanta, for example. We still offer the bulk of games closer to Atlanta in the MAC than we would in the "new' CUSA.
I don't have time to crunch #'s, but i'm willing to bet that the average miles from Murfreesboro to the MAC partners is probably less than the average miles from Murfreesboro to the "new" CUSA partners.
It's Ohio - not Siberia. This whole "north v south" thing really isn't a thing anymore. We have interstates and TVs and planes and everyone is pretty much the same everywhere.
And I don't think getting back on ESPN can be understated - any loss of exposure (which I'm not conviced will actually happen) will be offset by being an ESPN property.
2. What's the alternative conference that we can join that will provide us a significant # of games inside our traditional recruiting footprint?
If the answer here is none, then there's no need to worry about recruiting.
3. We still have the 2nd best state in all the MAC to draw recruits from. We'll also be the closest school to the best recruiting grounds in the south as well. From an in-conference recruiting standpoint - we'll probably have the best natural radius from which to draw recruits (say, draw a 5-hour driving circle around our campus) than anyone in the MAC.
That's doesn't scream doormat to me. That's a recipe for success.
You seem to be arguing two mutually exclusive points - You worried we're going to be a doormat because we can't recruit and will be at a talent disadvantage - but then how is the remainder of the MAC competition is going to wield some uber-talented rosters with kids from Indiana and Michigan, the same recruiting grounds you disdain?
We're going to be fine. I honestly think we have a chance to be really competitive. It may be a cripple fight, but we actually have a chance to swing the biggest crutches in the conference.
Dang he whipped 2 CUSA teams in those 3 Bowl Games. That guy could send Stockstill to retirement by himself if MTSU plays them a few times.
Leipold is at Kansas now, so no need for Stock to worry about him.
And as someone who has talked to these recruits, *most* pick MT (and other similar programs, I’m not throwing stones at all) because it’s one of their last options. Especially the guys in AL that Polly and Mallory find, and GA that Royston finds. They are diamond in the rough recruiters - and you have to be at this level.
I say all that to say, MT as an “only option” or “option of last resort” is not affected by geographical reach.
Sadly enough, this is true - not too many kids are going to pass up a MAC school because it's "up north" when the alternative is West Georgia and Gardner Webb.
Our staff would need to really put in some work on the recruiting trail to be in the mix for kids who would care about this.
If it wasn't for the "last resort angle" - i.e. "it's either us or a 1/2 schollie at Carson-Newman" - you would never see a full roster at a mid-major. And transfers. UNC-Charlotte has 50 on the roster this season. Literally.
After spending a couple of years at Bunfart State SouthEast Community College in Mississippi, a kid probably won't care if his next game is against Ball State instead of Old Dominion.
After spending a couple of years at Bunfart State SouthEast Community College in Mississippi, a kid probably won't care if his next game is against Ball State instead of Old Dominion.
Doug,
It's a negative recruitment thing. I've seen our own staff deploy the same tactics, literally can give you names of the players and hell I'll even tell you the coach that did it. They all do it. And it works pretty often. If a kid was considering EMU, WMU, MT, Troy, App St, Ark St....All the southern coaches are telling that kid you don't wanna play up north, its cold, the MAC sucks, the north doesn't care about football, parents can't come to your games, you'll transfer home after 1 year, etc.
Then they will tell you names of all the kids at high schools in your area over the last few years that did exactly that, signed with a MAC school or northern school and then transferred home. Before they all went 1-AA, but now they can transfer home and play right away anywhere. And let me tell you, this happens all the time. Anyway, now the kid being recruited really is thinking "Man, I should stay with a southern school, I don't want to end up like them!" It's negative recruiting and it works remarkably well. There's a reason MAC schools are flooded with northern players and not players from the south.
We already struggled against southern G5 teams in recruiting because our facilities and coaches suck, now it will be nearly impossible to sign kids that any SBC school wants because we won't be able to compete in any way. We will be negative recruited into oblivion on top of our already terrible facilities and coaches. So our GA, AL, FL, even TN recruiting is going to become more difficult. Hell, just ask yourself this, if you played football down south and you were being recruited by G5 programs, would you sign with a school in the MAC, Sun Belt, or AAC? Give me your pecking order....
That's what I thought.
We will be forced to look more north, because its our natural area to recruit based on our school/conference now. But those relationships don't appear over night. Can take years, even decades.
It's a negative recruitment thing. I've seen our own staff deploy the same tactics, literally can give you names of the players and hell I'll even tell you the coach that did it. They all do it. And it works pretty often. If a kid was considering EMU, WMU, MT, Troy, App St, Ark St....All the southern coaches are telling that kid you don't wanna play up north, its cold, the MAC sucks, the north doesn't care about football, parents can't come to your games, you'll transfer home after 1 year, etc.
Then they will tell you names of all the kids at high schools in your area over the last few years that did exactly that, signed with a MAC school or northern school and then transferred home. Before they all went 1-AA, but now they can transfer home and play right away anywhere. And let me tell you, this happens all the time. Anyway, now the kid being recruited really is thinking "Man, I should stay with a southern school, I don't want to end up like them!" It's negative recruiting and it works remarkably well. There's a reason MAC schools are flooded with northern players and not players from the south.
We already struggled against southern G5 teams in recruiting because our facilities and coaches suck, now it will be nearly impossible to sign kids that any SBC school wants because we won't be able to compete in any way. We will be negative recruited into oblivion on top of our already terrible facilities and coaches. So our GA, AL, FL, even TN recruiting is going to become more difficult. Hell, just ask yourself this, if you played football down south and you were being recruited by G5 programs, would you sign with a school in the MAC, Sun Belt, or AAC? Give me your pecking order....
That's what I thought.
We will be forced to look more north, because its our natural area to recruit based on our school/conference now. But those relationships don't appear over night. Can take years, even decades.
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it's G5 football al the conferences are basically equal.
Despite the sky is falling attitudes of some of us, I’m glad that it seems like we will have a stable and long term home.
His history is what I want in a coaching hire... It'll be interesting to see if he does well at Kansas.
Lance Leipold
