It's the defensive line

[sWiley]

Pretty much every team we've faced has DOMINATED our defensive line. When you control the line of scrimmage, you control the game, period. When your defensive line stinks, it makes your entire defense look like garbage because LB's and DB's have no shot to make a play if the defensive line is getting crushed play after play. It's literally all their fault. Our secondary is more talented than most people realize and DJ Sanders and Darius Harris would be all conference LBers if they played behind a half way decent DL.

So now on to why the DL sucks....well, we do have some injuries there. But we've also been terrible and missed on prospect after prospect too. How is Peter Bailey not seeing more snaps? With Chris Hale hurt he seriously can't get on the field more? Pretty sure our numbers are not where they need to be either at this point. I feel like our defense as a whole is down on scholarship numbers in favor of more offensive scholarships which seems silly. You just can't have 20 WR's on scholarship I don't care how bad the injury bug has been. That's one position where you find walk-on's and move people around and make it work (as evidenced by our current unit).

Unfortunately, it probably isn't getting better any time soon. Unless some of the newer kids we've signed can come in, kick major @$$, and avoid injury, then were in serious trouble. We literally don't have a single player on our defensive line that I would consider "good." And to top it all off, Tommy West is the position coach and we all know he's just riding coattails trying to get his years in for his state of Tennessee pension. A new position coach would be nice, but even if we found the best DL coach in the country, we just don't have the players right now.

Nix is a good coach and I don't think he's forgotten how to coach over night. My only complaint with him is that his defense and defensive play calling is extremely predictable and always has been. Almost always just a basic zone, sometimes man coverage, and a 3rd down blind side blitz here and there. That's it. You know what you're getting with him. Alabama is the same way, but we are not Alabama. Nix believes in lining up and just being better than your opponent and unfortunately that doesn't work when your defensive line isn't better than anyone.

Question: I didn't get to watch the Alabama A&M game.....Did our defensive line even do well in that game?

 

[C-Bow]

Malik Manciel looked pretty good yesterday in my opinion. Future is bright with that kid.

 

[MightyRaider]

We have no one that can rush the passer. It's hard to get sacks when we play mainly spread offenses but you would hope we could get pressure to make quarterbacks force throws. It would be nice to have a leighton gasque pass rush specialist type player who Is terrible against the run but can get after it on third down.

I still think the problem is far from just having tommy west as the line coach. I see no adjustments or creativity from the coaches to help the defense.

 

[AustinLewis]

FWIW, MT is 41st national in sacks (20), 79th in scoring defense (29.9 ppg) and 90th in defensive efficiency (according to ESPN)

 

[sWiley]

If you took away the Alabama A&M game where would they be ranked? We also play one of the easiest schedules in the country which is going to influence the overall rankings. Stats are for losers IMO. This defense doesn't come close to passing the eye test up front on the line.

 

[AustinLewis]

If you took away the Alabama A&M game where would they be ranked? We also play one of the easiest schedules in the country which is going to influence the overall rankings. Stats are for losers IMO. This defense doesn't come close to passing the eye test up front on the line.

No argument there. Defensive line, in particular, has struggled in the games I have watched this season. They seem to struggle to come over blocks

 

[RaiderDoug]

Agree wholeheartedly.

The DL doesn't do anything. It really doesn't.

It doesn't control gaps, it doesn't pass rush with any success, it doesn't absorb double teams, it doesn't win 1 on 1 matchups, it can't keep OL's from the 2nd level and affecting the linebackers.

This isn't a young or unskilled group either.

Tommy West is stealing money from MT.

 

[Blueraider_Mike]

So if stats are for losers, we are 6-2, our best record in years at this point. Our D has made big stops when it mattered most against LT, Mizzou and FIU. In fact you could say it was our offense that cost us the WKU (couldn't execute an easy play) and Vandy games (early Turnovers that kept Vandy in the game with 2 short fields).

I am assuming Wiley will be making the drive down for Saturday's game. Doug, you will be coming in from Knoxville and all the other "experts" will be filling seat at Floyd.

 

[AustinLewis]

So if stats are for losers, we are 6-2, our best record in years at this point. Our D has made big stops when it mattered most against LT, Mizzou and FIU. In fact you could say it was our offense that cost us the WKU (couldn't execute an easy play) and Vandy games (early Turnovers that kept Vandy in the game with 2 short fields).

I am assuming Wiley will be making the drive down for Saturday's game. Doug, you will be coming in from Knoxville and all the other "experts" will be filling seat at Floyd.

6-2 doesn't negate the flaws this team has. Dropping a bubble screen against WKU and idiotic plays against Vandy contributed to the 2 loses, but it's hard to watch MT games and not noticed the lack of push/pressure by the front 4. It's downright disturbing to see their lack of pressure IMO. It's almost like the entire line only knows a bull rush and is otherwise incapable of utilizing a swim, rip, or other DL move. Stunts/twists are out of the picture too

 

[AustinLewis]

So if stats are for losers, we are 6-2, our best record in years at this point. Our D has made big stops when it mattered most against LT, Mizzou and FIU. In fact you could say it was our offense that cost us the WKU (couldn't execute an easy play) and Vandy games (early Turnovers that kept Vandy in the game with 2 short fields).

I am assuming Wiley will be making the drive down for Saturday's game. Doug, you will be coming in from Knoxville and all the other "experts" will be filling seat at Floyd.

6-2 doesn't negate the flaws this team has. Dropping a bubble screen against WKU and idiotic plays against Vandy contributed to the 2 loses, but it's hard to watch MT games and not noticed the lack of push/pressure by the front 4. It's downright disturbing to see their lack of pressure IMO. It's almost like the entire line only knows a bull rush and is otherwise incapable of utilizing a swim, rip, or other DL move. Stunts/twists are out of the picture too

 

[AustinLewis]

So if stats are for losers, we are 6-2, our best record in years at this point. Our D has made big stops when it mattered most against LT, Mizzou and FIU. In fact you could say it was our offense that cost us the WKU (couldn't execute an easy play) and Vandy games (early Turnovers that kept Vandy in the game with 2 short fields).

I am assuming Wiley will be making the drive down for Saturday's game. Doug, you will be coming in from Knoxville and all the other "experts" will be filling seat at Floyd.

6-2 doesn't negate the flaws this team has. Dropping a bubble screen against WKU and idiotic plays against Vandy contributed to the 2 loses, but it's hard to watch MT games and not noticed the lack of push/pressure by the front 4. It's downright disturbing to see their lack of pressure IMO. It's almost like the entire line only knows a bull rush and is otherwise incapable of utilizing a swim, rip, or other DL move. Stunts/twists are out of the picture too

 

[sWiley]

So if stats are for losers, we are 6-2, our best record in years at this point. Our D has made big stops when it mattered most against LT, Mizzou and FIU. In fact you could say it was our offense that cost us the WKU (couldn't execute an easy play) and Vandy games (early Turnovers that kept Vandy in the game with 2 short fields).

I am assuming Wiley will be making the drive down for Saturday's game. Doug, you will be coming in from Knoxville and all the other "experts" will be filling seat at Floyd.

Wow. I don't even know where to begin.

First, nobody is perfect (but our offense is close). The offense is going to occasionally do something wrong, whereas our defensive line (and defense as a whole) will only occasionally do something right. That's a big difference, if you're able to understand that.

Are you seriously trying to make the case the our defense is more consistent than our offense? Even blind squirrels find nuts on occasion, which our defense has, but for 90% of the game they're out there getting dominated. That would change to probably 50% if our defensive line had a pulse.

Also, think about the stops you mentioned against LT, Mizzou, and FIU. Which unit did that stopping? Did those games end on sacks, or the secondary making big plays? Let me refresh your memory. All 3 were because of the secondary. In the Mizzou game, our DL (Steven Rhodes) was even offsides on 4th and 10 giving them another free play and 4th and 5 which they didn't get. Our LB's/secondary stopped them in spite of the DL.

Thank you.

ps. Games can easily be seen on TV/Internet now FYI. Attendance isn't mandatory to see the piss poor performance of our DL every week.

 

[RaiderDoug]

So if stats are for losers, we are 6-2, our best record in years at this point. Our D has made big stops when it mattered most against LT, Mizzou and FIU. In fact you could say it was our offense that cost us the WKU (couldn't execute an easy play) and Vandy games (early Turnovers that kept Vandy in the game with 2 short fields).

I am assuming Wiley will be making the drive down for Saturday's game. Doug, you will be coming in from Knoxville and all the other "experts" will be filling seat at Floyd.

Nope. I've made my position clear.

I'll no longer reinforce failure.

I've played the good alumni, dutiful fan for 10 long years with zip of any note to show for it.

Trying to convince me that we're having some kind of historic season because we beat FIU and an awful Mizzou team while losing to WKU,Vandy, and not winning any sort of title is the equivalent of peeing on my shoes and telling me it's raining.

A decade, we have 1 bowl win, no titles, and a winning % against teams that have finished the season with positive records of like .250 (I might be being generous here) - this is not success.

They can earn me back. I want to see an effort and a will from this program to not be merely "bowl-eligible". I want them to shoot for Boise State level excellence (if they don't make it, that's ok, but at least try) - but I don't see any evidence of that at this time.

Canning Tommy West, who's done nothing since he's been here except pad his retirement, would go a long way.

 

[blueraiderJT]

The offense lost the WKU game. Point blank. Bad game management. We're 3rd and 1 on their 17 and we force a pass into triple coverage. INT. If you run it, the clock moves and you have a very makable FG.

2 drives later with 2:34 left, we have 1st down with WKU only having 1 timeout left. What do we do? Pass it. Incomplete. That one play lost us the game from that point. If we ran it, they burn their final TO and we burn another 40 seconds off of the clock on 2nd down. We would have been closer to the first down marker too. Even if we have to punt it, they have 50 seconds to drive it down instead of 1:31. That's a huge difference. Up until then, we held WKU to less yards than most teams they've played.

TF offenses does our D no favors and we don't have the depth to stay fresh. We have a great offense. We should dominate the clock in every game we play. There's 2 sides to every coin even if one side is shinier than the other.

 

[blueraiderJT]

This argument of only beating teams with bad records stuff is ridiculous. What the hell were we supposed to do? Lose to em because they didn't have 7 wins or better? Most of the teams in our 2 leagues that we've played in aren't good. We can't help that. We don't decide who we played. We have to line up and play em. We beat em. Isn't that what we were supposed to do. Look, I remember 2010 when we lost to a terrible memphis team and an awful UNT team. I was really pissed about that. 2011, no doubt. 2013, losing to UNT the way we did, yup I was pissed. 2014, FIU and UTEP? Come on, it sucked.

This year, Vandy has beaten WKU and went to UGA and beat them. They are 4-4 right now and should get to 5 wins at least and could beat Ole Miss or UT. Those will be close games.

WKU is who they are. Our O let that happen. Other than that, we're doing better than we've done ever record wise and on offense.

Should we have lost to Mizzou? We went and played them straight up. They were huge and we were undersized. Sheesh, we got it done and no credit.

Would you rather be Marshall right now?

We're 6-2 and folks are upset. It's so silly to me. Sorry. I'm not saying things are super awesome either but 6-2 is 6-2. If we win out and go 10-2, you can't honestly say we had a bad season. You just can't.

UTSA will present a new challenge. If we win, I think we go 10-2.

 

[FranklinRaider315]

Interesting thread

 

[FranklinRaider315]

Agree wholeheartedly.

The DL doesn't do anything. It really doesn't.

It doesn't control gaps, it doesn't pass rush with any success, it doesn't absorb double teams, it doesn't win 1 on 1 matchups, it can't keep OL's from the 2nd level and affecting the linebackers.

This isn't a young or unskilled group either.

Tommy West is stealing money from MT.

2006: Memphis loses at ECU 35-20 in the 3rd game of the season. TW announces on Monday morning after that Joe Lee Dunn is gone and he will be DC for remainder of the season. Tigers go on an 8-game losing streak, finish 2-10, 1-7 and dead last in C-USA.

Fact.

 

[RaiderDoug]

This argument of only beating teams with bad records stuff is ridiculous. What the hell were we supposed to do? Lose to em because they didn't have 7 wins or better? Most of the teams in our 2 leagues that we've played in aren't good. We can't help that. We don't decide who we played. We have to line up and play em. We beat em. Isn't that what we were supposed to do.

And here in lies the crux of the problem we have.

You admit that we play a large amount of poor teams. I agree. We have a schedule that pretty much gives us 4-5 wins. There's usually a few dead in the water CUSA teams, an FCS cupcake, etc.

Yet, by your own definition when compared to our season records, where we're only averaging 6 wins a season for the last 10 years - we're not beating the few good teams we're playing.

We play a poor schedule, yet have 1 10 win season. We have ZERO titles out of these poor schedules.

We have a program that has upper half of the conference budget, facilities, fan support, tradition, name-recognition, TV games, recruiting territory - yet there's virtually nothing to show for it. We should have lucked into a conference championship by now.

And here's the kicker - you can say that we can't help who we play - that's true.

But what happens when we play teams with winning records? What happens in bowl games? Far more often than not, we lose.

 

[FranklinRaider315]

More irony....Our AD is a former d-lineman at FCS member, Northern Colorado. CM of all people should know what the problem is.

 

[Blueraider_Mike]

More irony....Our AD is a former d-lineman at FCS member, Northern Colorado. CM of all people should know what the problem is.

He may look like a D-lineman but I thought he played DB?

 

[Blueraider_Mike]

Wow. I don't even know where to begin.

First, nobody is perfect (but our offense is close). The offense is going to occasionally do something wrong, whereas our defensive line (and defense as a whole) will only occasionally do something right. That's a big difference, if you're able to understand that.

Are you seriously trying to make the case the our defense is more consistent than our offense? Even blind squirrels find nuts on occasion, which our defense has, but for 90% of the game they're out there getting dominated. That would change to probably 50% if our defensive line had a pulse.

Also, think about the stops you mentioned against LT, Mizzou, and FIU. Which unit did that stopping? Did those games end on sacks, or the secondary making big plays? Let me refresh your memory. All 3 were because of the secondary. In the Mizzou game, our DL (Steven Rhodes) was even offsides on 4th and 10 giving them another free play and 4th and 5 which they didn't get. Our LB's/secondary stopped them in spite of the DL.

Thank you.

ps. Games can easily be seen on TV/Internet now FYI. Attendance isn't mandatory to see the piss poor performance of our DL every week.

Last I heard, the secondary was part of the D; left out the BGSU game - they didn't score in the 2nd half - the game was tight until after the half.

Look, we don't have a good D, I see it. But to say they haven't come up big when it mattered most is BS. Only one game did they not get a stop that we had to have - WKU.

 

[blueraiderJT]

If we win 10 this season, then we will have had 2 10 win seasons. That's like 20% in the last 10 years. 2 8 win seasons too. Marshall probably wishes they were 6-2 this year instead of 2-6 right now. We are now B.E. for 5 years straight. Besides WKU, we are the only team in the conference that can say that.

I want what every MT fan wants but if we go 10-2 in the regular season and win a bowl to go 11-2, you can't say this was a bad season or a bad team. I mean that would be ridiculous.

 

[FranklinRaider315]

He may look like a D-lineman but I thought he played DB?

Almost positive he told me he was a D-lineman in college.

 

[sWiley]

Last I heard, the secondary was part of the D; left out the BGSU game - they didn't score in the 2nd half - the game was tight until after the half.

Look, we don't have a good D, I see it. But to say they haven't come up big when it mattered most is BS. Only one game did they not get a stop that we had to have - WKU.

I'm not saying the defense hasn't had a few moments. They've made some key plays for sure. I was specifically knocking the defensive line with this thread which has been nonexistent this season. I'm shocked we are tied for 41st in sacks and I'd bet a large chunk of change the majority of those sacks were from LB's and DB's, not because of the defensive line.

 

[MTsumner92]

No argument here. The unit as a whole is not very good. next year will be ugly if we don't pick up about 2 juco DT's.

 

[sWiley]

I wouldn't hold your breath. This staff seems obsessed with loading up with even more offensive players on the recruiting trail. We've yet to even sign a defensive linemen for the 2017 class. I guess if you score every single time you have the ball, you technically don't need a defense if you have the ball last and can convert the 2 point conversion.

At some point we need to seriously consider the on-side kick. If we are just going to let teams march down the field with our bend but don't break defense and hope to stop them in the red zone when the field shortens up, why not just kick the on-sides and try to get a possession for our offense? It's actually not as crazy of an idea as you might think and there's several high school coaches who subscribe to the philosophy.