ITS OVER
- Thread starter MT01
- Start date
doubt it...
Eaglepost | Wonder what Cusa Conference commissioner Judy is thinking
Wonder what Cusa Conference commissioner Judy is thinking?
www.facebook.com
Last edited:
TV markets are the dumbest reasons to take teams. This is how we got into this mess. With the exception of 1-2 teams all of the other teams are boat anchors at best. No one is watching those crappy teams play. If CUSA took Troy, App st. Ga southern and CC instead of the other turds they took, we would still have a strong league.
Since the news broke on G5 conference realignment I've been sucked in to spending way too much time trying to keep up even though I vowed to pull back from constantly keeping up with MT sports. I've debated which of the two "realignment" threads in which to put this comment or whether to start a new thread. Decision made to place my comment here.
Why does it appear MT is going to be "left at the alter" after the current realignment? (IIRC MT was one of the last to move from The Belt up (?) to C-USA in the last round - almost left out then) My research (if you can call it that) comes up with some things other than FB and Men's BkB records (even though FB continues in mediocrity and BkB is terrible presently we are comparable over time to some who have moved on from C-USA), other than attendance (which again is comparable), and other than total athletic budget (low but comparable). And although we can certainly look at poor decisions and a lack of both leadership and vision in Murphy Ctr. and Cope the answer IMHO does not lie exclusively there.
Before I go on let me be clear: Research on the internet is not true research which is beyond the abilities of any posters on this board. Additionally it is important for one to try not to find only things with which we agree (confirmation bias). Having nothing else to do I have extensively read message boards, articles, blogs, and watched several videos. Lots of opinions and speculation on why schools are moving or not. From what I have seen I come up with a couple of possible reasons MT is where we are when Conference offices, Leadership at other schools, and probably most importantly ESPN (who is running this show) look at MT.
University image and academics: We all know that MT doesn't have one true professional school. Additionally MT is not a R-1 or R-2 research school (FAU, ODU, UTSA, and UNCC are all R-2 schools - in the state ETSU, TTU and TSU, yes TSU are all Carnegie research schools). One other criteria which other school's administrators might look at is MT's endowment. We expect private schools to have an advantage here but it is clear that MT's approximately $110 million is on the low end of the public schools which were candidates to move up, often a difference of several multiples. One additional issue could be that entirely too much of MT's athletic budget comes from student fees rather than from ticket sales and donations. Not a good look.
Media market disadvantage: The administration and some fans like to point to Murfreesboro being in a top 30 media market as an advantage but one must look at the competition in that market. With 3 of the top 5 major professional leagues in Nashville, with an $EC team in Nashville and another followed state-wide, and with numerous other colleges contending for recognition (Nashville is not called the Athens of the South for nothing) we have very high competition for media coverage. Although Rutherford county is in the Nashville DMA the Nashville sports media takes little notice of MTSU. You can be sure ESPN know how many eyes MT brings to the table, obviously not enough.
I realize you can say that FAU, UNT, and Rice all have very high competition for local media coverage, True, but they have one advantage MT doesn't have. They are in the #1 And #2 states for FB recruiting which does much to overcome the high competition disadvantage. Do any schools want to have MT in a conference so they can recruit the mid-state area?
As a long suffering fan I hate that the 20 year odyssey in D-1 FB has come to this but there have been so many factors aligned against MT's academic and athletic progress along with the biggie: Location, Location, Location
(As an aside: I encourage you readers to look for the various articles and videos which compare schools - a lot to take in)
Why does it appear MT is going to be "left at the alter" after the current realignment? (IIRC MT was one of the last to move from The Belt up (?) to C-USA in the last round - almost left out then) My research (if you can call it that) comes up with some things other than FB and Men's BkB records (even though FB continues in mediocrity and BkB is terrible presently we are comparable over time to some who have moved on from C-USA), other than attendance (which again is comparable), and other than total athletic budget (low but comparable). And although we can certainly look at poor decisions and a lack of both leadership and vision in Murphy Ctr. and Cope the answer IMHO does not lie exclusively there.
Before I go on let me be clear: Research on the internet is not true research which is beyond the abilities of any posters on this board. Additionally it is important for one to try not to find only things with which we agree (confirmation bias). Having nothing else to do I have extensively read message boards, articles, blogs, and watched several videos. Lots of opinions and speculation on why schools are moving or not. From what I have seen I come up with a couple of possible reasons MT is where we are when Conference offices, Leadership at other schools, and probably most importantly ESPN (who is running this show) look at MT.
University image and academics: We all know that MT doesn't have one true professional school. Additionally MT is not a R-1 or R-2 research school (FAU, ODU, UTSA, and UNCC are all R-2 schools - in the state ETSU, TTU and TSU, yes TSU are all Carnegie research schools). One other criteria which other school's administrators might look at is MT's endowment. We expect private schools to have an advantage here but it is clear that MT's approximately $110 million is on the low end of the public schools which were candidates to move up, often a difference of several multiples. One additional issue could be that entirely too much of MT's athletic budget comes from student fees rather than from ticket sales and donations. Not a good look.
Media market disadvantage: The administration and some fans like to point to Murfreesboro being in a top 30 media market as an advantage but one must look at the competition in that market. With 3 of the top 5 major professional leagues in Nashville, with an $EC team in Nashville and another followed state-wide, and with numerous other colleges contending for recognition (Nashville is not called the Athens of the South for nothing) we have very high competition for media coverage. Although Rutherford county is in the Nashville DMA the Nashville sports media takes little notice of MTSU. You can be sure ESPN know how many eyes MT brings to the table, obviously not enough.
I realize you can say that FAU, UNT, and Rice all have very high competition for local media coverage, True, but they have one advantage MT doesn't have. They are in the #1 And #2 states for FB recruiting which does much to overcome the high competition disadvantage. Do any schools want to have MT in a conference so they can recruit the mid-state area?
As a long suffering fan I hate that the 20 year odyssey in D-1 FB has come to this but there have been so many factors aligned against MT's academic and athletic progress along with the biggie: Location, Location, Location
(As an aside: I encourage you readers to look for the various articles and videos which compare schools - a lot to take in)
”Before I go on let me be clear: Research on the internet is not true research which is beyond the abilities of any posters on this board.”
Wow!!!! You paint with a pretty broad brush. I talk with friends, admins and coaches at multiple schools every day as well as do my own research. I have a pretty good idea how this is going to play out and it’s not going to end well for our alma mater.
Speaking of videos to watch, I recommend to all the video of the September MT Board meeting. Watch it. It for me was almost as bad as anything I've seen, heard, read all week, maybe with exception of the NIH evil funding of torturous experiments on Beagle puppies and monkeys.
I started watching this one just to see what goes on and was very interested in the dynamics.
The outgoing vice chair was trying to ask questions about the 4k plus decline in enrollment from MT's peak while the Chair, who in the meeting was given a new two year term with no opposition was pretty clearly opposed to the line of questioning. Though I might find myself in disagreement with Freeman in other areas, at least he was asking the questions. Maybe he was asking those type of questions in his just ended two year term as vice chair and maybe there other issues between the chair and freeman, or maybe since he was no longer vice chair he felt more free to ask the tough questions, who knows?
A little later on, McPhee was extremely defensive about enrollment decline being brought up.
Scroll down to the video and start at about the 46 minute mark
I started watching this one just to see what goes on and was very interested in the dynamics.
The outgoing vice chair was trying to ask questions about the 4k plus decline in enrollment from MT's peak while the Chair, who in the meeting was given a new two year term with no opposition was pretty clearly opposed to the line of questioning. Though I might find myself in disagreement with Freeman in other areas, at least he was asking the questions. Maybe he was asking those type of questions in his just ended two year term as vice chair and maybe there other issues between the chair and freeman, or maybe since he was no longer vice chair he felt more free to ask the tough questions, who knows?
A little later on, McPhee was extremely defensive about enrollment decline being brought up.
Scroll down to the video and start at about the 46 minute mark
Last edited:
I spoke briefly with Darrell last week but nothing about MTSU and I had not seen this video until today. He sits on the Board of my former employer. McPhee touting these athletics “accomplishments” while completely ignoring the present performances of the two main revenue drivers of intercollegiate athletics (Men’s Basketball and Football) is pretty telling. Folks won’t and don’t donate, buy tickets or attend games because of conference titles or NCAA titles for Tennis and Track. But, in spite of what some of you may think of SM, he’s a smart man and already knows this. So does our AD and the BOT. I wish Darrell well and appreciate his service and his brutal honesty. Like me, he cares because he put the classroom time in at MTSU and wants what’s best for his alma mater and wasn’t afraid to ask the tough questions. 👏👏
To me that all points to the potential for MT. However that potential has been there for 15 years. Yes there is an SEC school in nashville, but they are terrible athletically. Again I feel like it’s all laid out for success but extremely poor leadership hasnt capitalized on any of it. Massaro gave up years ago and doesn’t have the drive to think outside the box.
I love the potential, but if after 15 years he hasn’t moved the needle, then conferences and ESPN see that and move on. It All goes back to Massaro And terrible leadership.
I love the potential, but if after 15 years he hasn’t moved the needle, then conferences and ESPN see that and move on. It All goes back to Massaro And terrible leadership.
I thought the chair saying questions aren’t usually addressed in board meetings was odd.
I thought Darrell had some insightful questions.
Some of which we have all discussed.
This gives me even more reason to push my son to consider other options for education.
I thought Darrell had some insightful questions.
Some of which we have all discussed.
This gives me even more reason to push my son to consider other options for education.
Memphis St. still segregated its Football Student Athletes in South Hall (Athletic Dorm and Cafeteria) until we opened Fall camp in 1977, my Soph. year. Basketball had the third floor and they had already integrated. Coach Richard Williamson integrated every football floor which in years prior had all of the AA football players on a wing of the 2nd floor and hallway. I was one of the first white players who had my room assigned on that floor. Still hard to believe Coach Pancoast was able to recruit with that practice still in place until 2 years after he left for Vandy. For my next 3 years and beyond we practiced, played, ate, slept and roomed together as a team.
Darrell’s 20 minutes told me 3 things:
1) We still have a building in the middle of campus bearing an offensive name which is a barrier in recruiting (for both athletics and academics).
2) Our unsuccessful attempt at acquiring the Law School could have been handled much better.
3) Our admin and BOT strategy to grow “organically” instead of being aggressive in acquiring other campuses has resulted in the UTK system being expanded directly into our market less than 80 miles from Cope.
I know this is pretty much undeserved snobbery coming from a school with the moniker of Middle Tennessee State University and with our athletic track record, we shouldn't be talking down to anyone - I just can't see being in an FBS conference with someone named "Tarleton State".
At least we have a location, and if you're at all familiar with the mid-south region - we do serve a distinct region with a distinct culture/flavor.
Tarleton State seems like one of those schools that advertises itself during 2am infomercial breaks. "Buy our hot dog cooker! And here's a word from our sponsor - Tarleton State!"
They could be the Harvard of Texas for all I know - which is sort of the problem - no one knows anything about them. I can't imagine being taken seriously as an FBS conference with this sort of move.
At least we have a location, and if you're at all familiar with the mid-south region - we do serve a distinct region with a distinct culture/flavor.
Tarleton State seems like one of those schools that advertises itself during 2am infomercial breaks. "Buy our hot dog cooker! And here's a word from our sponsor - Tarleton State!"
They could be the Harvard of Texas for all I know - which is sort of the problem - no one knows anything about them. I can't imagine being taken seriously as an FBS conference with this sort of move.
We all have McPhee, Massaro, Stockstill, and McDevitt to thank for a much lower position on the FBS totem pole than we were even on the day MT went 1A. None of those four deserve anything more than being fired immediately and all four escorted from the campus by MT security.
On the plus side - this is the most interest i've taken in MTSU athletics in 5 years.
It's like watching the water rise from the deck of the Titanic. It's a disaster, and we're very likely to end up frozen and drowned, but at least it's something other than "we competed to bowl eligibility-ish" that's been the story of the last decade.
It's like watching the water rise from the deck of the Titanic. It's a disaster, and we're very likely to end up frozen and drowned, but at least it's something other than "we competed to bowl eligibility-ish" that's been the story of the last decade.
Just no.
texasbob.com
TexasBob.com - Tarleton State University Memorial Stadium - Stephenville , Texas
Tarleton State University Memorial Stadium Stephenville , Texas. TexasBob.com
Maybe we should kick Tarleton State's @$$ in the hall on our way to lunch in front of a large crowd of cool kids and take their lunch money. Maybe it'll impress enough to at least get invited to a seat a cafeteria lunch table of kids. It's better than eating alone.
Not with our weight and strength program.
We're the pimply 90lb weakling in realignment, wku is the obnoxious ginger kid not even the adults like, latech is the nerdy kid who every one hates, and utep and fiu are never seen in class and no one is sure if they moved or dropped out, but no one misses them. When we try to sit at a table, we get the "seat taken" treatment and are force to sit outside with our brown bag lunch.
Seeing some of these posts on Twitter that are predicting what the "New CUSA" will look like and it's damned depressing:
MTSU
WKU
Louisiana Tech
FIU
UTEP
Missouri State
Eastern Kentucky (EKU)
McNeese State
Sam Houston State
Tarleton State
Central Arkansas
Jacksonville State
Or some variation similar... Jeez.
MTSU
WKU
Louisiana Tech
FIU
UTEP
Missouri State
Eastern Kentucky (EKU)
McNeese State
Sam Houston State
Tarleton State
Central Arkansas
Jacksonville State
Or some variation similar... Jeez.
To me, if it's not MAC (and unless lightning strikes the stadium and 30k fans, Alabama, and and a win suddenly appear it won't be MAC),
I'd just rather drop to FCS than be in a league with new move ups. Make it truly regional like ASUN etc and chill till the new administration comes and build in to an FCS powerhouse.
At least then we'd have a shot at playoffs and a championship.
I'd just rather drop to FCS than be in a league with new move ups. Make it truly regional like ASUN etc and chill till the new administration comes and build in to an FCS powerhouse.
At least then we'd have a shot at playoffs and a championship.
If it's not MAC then just drop football altogether and shoot for the MVC.
This is a VERY embarrassing list to be associated with. I’m sorry but I’m likely out as a fan if it’s coming together like this. MAC looks much better than a bunch of regional and community colleges.
True. But at least there aren't any TX schools. Same with SOCON. I'm just selfish and don't want to be in a western based conference which is what Dallas based Judy is shooting for.
With SAM HOUSTON ST not getting the students to fund the athletics I think That no compete Judy will fail to keep CUSA alive.
An absolute clown show and if anyone thinks the "new" C-USA is a worthwhile approach, you've sold your Blue Raider soul and everything good associated with Middle Tennessee athletics.
This is our only chance to be relevant again.
The only reason to stay together is to make the outbound schools pay the exit fee and spread the 36 or so million dollars around.
I don't believe they will pay. Maybe a reduced fee but schools leaving don't have the funds to pay and the AAC doesn't either. The fee will be negotiable and we will end up with about $500k if lucky. Remember Judy is a dumbass and has no clue.
Good for them. But I’m not overjoyed at the thought of them joining CUSA and the Blue Raiders playing them like Charlotte.
Well, I'm not either, but the way things go, they may pass us by especially if we continue down this road with this clown show running things over there in Cope and Murphy Center.
I’m starting to think it wouldn’t have mattered if MT had recent success (remember it was just a few years ago when the athletic department was doing pretty well and solid across the board). WKU has been consistently good and got left out. I mean if it were about results, what has ODU, Charlotte, North Texas, Rice, Southern Miss, UTSA (other than this year) done in at least the last decade? UAB too. It took them completely folding football to do anything. FAU has had some recent FB success, but it wasn’t too long ago when the F_U twins were headlining the bottom 10. This is again all about markets (AAC), and I think the SBC is spiteful towards WKU and MT (especially WKU) for leaving in 2012. If anything, if the SBC were smart they’d take WKU over ODU. Though i do wish i could argue the same for our alma mater.
Similar threads
