UNIVERSITY NEWS Group of 5 university rankings
- Thread starter Matt Dossett
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He is literally just using US News ranking. We’re on par with most of our peers and we’re moving in the right direction.
That's a nice thought, but ranking in the bottom half of G5 schools and national colleges isn't the way to go.
The educational bar has been lowered by school boards and this university. Why am I saying this?
My niece, who will graduate from Middle Tennessee this spring, has made the Dean's List multiple times. If the standards were the same as they were 30+ years ago, she would have never made the Deans List.
A lot of the students 30 years ago wouldn’t be accepted today. The acceptance has gone down a lot in the past few years.
So you are saying they have lowered the GPA requirements for the Dean’s List, or you just think that she wouldn’t have made it based on your opinion of how your niece is graded?
I wouldn’t say a “lot”. The acceptance rate is still really high.
And as a moderator I get it. You feel like you have to put shiny lipstick on this pig all the time.
But the truth of the matter is McPhee has practically done nothing to raise the profile of the university’s academic reputation. In some respects it was better 20 years ago than it is now. As someone who really thought we had some potential to do some things exceptionally well my association with this institution has left me with nothing but frustration and disappointment. Both academically and athletically. So you can continue to pump the sunshine (and nothing personal) but the reality is we have a weak president, a culture that to this day still employs the little middle mindset, and a Board that operates on a fiefdom mentality rather than seeking to grow the University’s reputation and status. As a degree holder who earned a masters degree 22 years ago I’m pretty disgusted. My degree was worth more then than it is now and it shouldn’t be that way. By all accounts our leadership has failed us - the alumni and the students - in so many ways.
And as a moderator I get it. You feel like you have to put shiny lipstick on this pig all the time.
But the truth of the matter is McPhee has practically done nothing to raise the profile of the university’s academic reputation. In some respects it was better 20 years ago than it is now. As someone who really thought we had some potential to do some things exceptionally well my association with this institution has left me with nothing but frustration and disappointment. Both academically and athletically. So you can continue to pump the sunshine (and nothing personal) but the reality is we have a weak president, a culture that to this day still employs the little middle mindset, and a Board that operates on a fiefdom mentality rather than seeking to grow the University’s reputation and status. As a degree holder who earned a masters degree 22 years ago I’m pretty disgusted. My degree was worth more then than it is now and it shouldn’t be that way. By all accounts our leadership has failed us - the alumni and the students - in so many ways.
You saying something negative about the university means about as much as the administration saying something positive.
Any negativity I express about this institution is a reflection of the reality and very well earned. It’s not like I’m in the minority on this and our leadership (if you can call it leadership).
The only thing you express is negativity. It is not all great, but it is also not all bad. I want more, but things are not really as bad as you make it out to be. U.S. News and World Report rankings should also be taken with a grain of salt. Is there really much of a difference between a majority of G5 schools? Probably not. Dirty politics keep us down more than the administration and they don’t need any help with that.
That’s fair. I don’t pay much attention to US News but even if you did you would note that we are basically not ranked. We’re just in the same bucket as all the other schools outside the top 299. Everyone from 299 to 450 or whatever the number of institutions are gets a 299. There simply has been no progress on professional degree programs. The law school was a complete legacy loss for anyone associated with Cope. We haven’t progressed in the tiering system. Our brand is split. Our endowment is a fraction of our peers. I would love for our beloved school to be the best in the state. I wish it were the case but it’s just not gone well for us. And I think we all know why at this point. The state has no interest in elevating the output of the university much less it’s perception or status,
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Today, getting an A at Middle Tennessee is easier than it was years ago. I don't believe it's reached JUCO levels (JUCOs are notoriously easy), but the rigor has diminished.
It’s gone down by over 25% since 18-19. Say what you want but that’s a lot. Also, what you’re talking about isn’t unique to our university. The value of degrees are not as high any more because a lot of the younger workforce has realized they need a degree to get an interview in corporate America. If those younger people don’t have experience or a degree they are highly unlikely to get the opportunity to interview. That’s flooded the workforce with degree holders. The issue is on companies wanting a ridiculous list of qualifications and not willing to take chances on people anymore imo.
That may be true but there is definitely something unique about the poor culture and ineptitude- whether it’s corruption or incompetence - at this institution. So that’s a double whammy with the societal implications that you reference.
Those who do not see it at this point simply don’t want to see it.
I don’t really have an opinion on our ranking but I’ll say most universities are diploma mills.
MT does have some degrees that are unique to the school, therefore, MT does stand out. We really had an opportunity to become a better university had we been able to secure the law school.
The way McPhee backed down from that was hard to stomach. Especially since one of the deciding votes was a student from the university of Tennessee. So messed up.
That should have been tied up in court.
All that to say….I think MT is a fine university. We had an opportunity to improve our image.
MT does have some degrees that are unique to the school, therefore, MT does stand out. We really had an opportunity to become a better university had we been able to secure the law school.
The way McPhee backed down from that was hard to stomach. Especially since one of the deciding votes was a student from the university of Tennessee. So messed up.
That should have been tied up in court.
All that to say….I think MT is a fine university. We had an opportunity to improve our image.
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Personally I think we are a great school. Could we be better, absolutely. Also could be worse.
But 10000% agree on some balls being dropped. The way McP has ZERO political clout showed big time with the law school fiasco. And a fiasco is exactly what it was. We also should be much more involved with MMC and St Thomas to grow nursing, pharmacy, etc. Our Bachelor programs are plenty but post grad are seriously lacking. And I really really think the Board is sadly happy with the status quo. We sadly lost Freeman who was one of the few that asked the tough questions.
Some of the degrees we've added have been fads, while some have major room for growth, concrete management especially. Cards played right and you can spin an engineering program off that in another decade.
But improving takes vision and political prowess, and that hasn't been shown as a strength. McP's first decade was focused on numbers growth. The second should've been quality growth but that really hasn't materialized.
But 10000% agree on some balls being dropped. The way McP has ZERO political clout showed big time with the law school fiasco. And a fiasco is exactly what it was. We also should be much more involved with MMC and St Thomas to grow nursing, pharmacy, etc. Our Bachelor programs are plenty but post grad are seriously lacking. And I really really think the Board is sadly happy with the status quo. We sadly lost Freeman who was one of the few that asked the tough questions.
Some of the degrees we've added have been fads, while some have major room for growth, concrete management especially. Cards played right and you can spin an engineering program off that in another decade.
But improving takes vision and political prowess, and that hasn't been shown as a strength. McP's first decade was focused on numbers growth. The second should've been quality growth but that really hasn't materialized.
So, totally anecdotal evidence here - but I'm currently working on a second bachelor's degree in history through the U of Memphis (they took all my MT credits). I'm doing this for personal enrichment and a side hobby. My first BA was from MT in Finance with a minor in Insurance.
It's completely online, and, frankly, it's a joke. It's so incredibly easy, I can't even compare it to the work or difficulty required to graduate from MT. I'm absolutely not here knocking the University of Memphis, but really just the whole shift to "online" classes vs earning your degree through going to class and the traditional channels. I'm sure all the "online" classes are about the same, whether at MT, Memphis, UT, or wherever. Let's face it, it's just an income stream at this point.
Not that there's no value in it. But you have to extract your own value and you get what you put in, because minimal work will get the diploma, as compared to back when I was attending MT (03-05) and you actually had to work hard to get a good grade in each class.
So, long story short - take these "rankings" with a grain of salt. The academic environment is not what it once was.
It's completely online, and, frankly, it's a joke. It's so incredibly easy, I can't even compare it to the work or difficulty required to graduate from MT. I'm absolutely not here knocking the University of Memphis, but really just the whole shift to "online" classes vs earning your degree through going to class and the traditional channels. I'm sure all the "online" classes are about the same, whether at MT, Memphis, UT, or wherever. Let's face it, it's just an income stream at this point.
Not that there's no value in it. But you have to extract your own value and you get what you put in, because minimal work will get the diploma, as compared to back when I was attending MT (03-05) and you actually had to work hard to get a good grade in each class.
So, long story short - take these "rankings" with a grain of salt. The academic environment is not what it once was.
Income stream is right. Just look at Liberty. Politics or religion aside, online is where their money comes from. Penn State and Arizona also have huge online programs. PSU calls theirs Global Campus. Essentially every program available on campus is online as well.
Like it or not it is an area for us to grow in and bring in major revenue.
Like it or not it is an area for us to grow in and bring in major revenue.
The law school was a bad idea, but McPhee did no favors with his presentation to the Commission.
For what it’s worth…the acceptance rate has gone down because of how it’s calculated. A student who applies but doesn’t finish the application process by not submitting the additional required materials counts as not being accepted. A few years ago, we began accepting Common App, which led to many more students “applying” to MTSU that weren’t truly considering attending as seriously. Thus, it makes us look more selective when really nothing has changed in that regard. We (like many similar institutions) offer guaranteed admission based on GPA/ACT benchmarks, which haven’t changed in a long time. Common App makes us look more selective, but in turn hurts our yield (% of admitted students who end up enrolling).
There’s plenty more to say about the academic side, both good and not-so-good. Just wanted to share that bit of info for context. Our acceptance rate hasn’t changed significantly.
My MBA from MTSU was completed 100% in the classroom. Thank God for 840, for Dr. Troy Festervand renting classroom space in Franklin and the professors willing to make the drive over for a few of them.
It wasn’t. The addition of finally having a professional degree program would have been significant. That’s why others went out of their way to prevent it.
https://scotblog.org/2018/10/mtsu-w...-higher-education-commissions-decision-legal/
The way McPhee folded was extremely odd.
Interesting blog of the denial of the school was even legal.
The way McPhee folded was extremely odd.
Interesting blog of the denial of the school was even legal.
I don't know about now, but I started in 2011 and had a buddy who got in with a 2.5 GPA and a 21 on the ACT..
Guaranteed acceptance with either a 3.0 GPA, or a 22 ACT, or a 2.7 and 19 combo. Anyone not meeting those requirements is reviewed individually. Hasn’t changed in at least 15 years.
I remember when I enrolled in 98, I don't remember the exact numbers but I was one point away from a full ride Presidential Scholarship based on my ACT. I think 27 was required and I had a 26 maybe? Or 27 and 28? Long time ago. Man I'm getting old.
It does frustrate me that now there are more levels to that and someone now with that same score gets significantly more scholarship help than I did.
It does frustrate me that now there are more levels to that and someone now with that same score gets significantly more scholarship help than I did.
They have added more tiers to the guaranteed scholarships, and they start at 23 now (w/a 3.5 GPA). While the dollar amounts of the awards are higher now, keep in mind what tuition rates have done. Adjusted for higher fees and inflation, I don’t necessarily think a student today with the same academic credentials is getting any more assistance. HOPE was a game changer, though, for sure.
There is something to be said about name recognition as well. There are so many private schools in TN, let alone the SE, that people have never heard of, even if they may be ranked academically above MT, but it doesn't move the needle. Name recognition has weight, and we at least have that.
I became a bigger MT fan once I realized my degree (and my wife's masters, my brothers and his wife's degree and most of my friends) had a better perception when our Athletics do well.
Now MT sports have morphed into a family event where my kids feel the excitement that Mom and Dad have and they are fans. Against what some think here, I think MT has a bright future. Murfreesboro is EXPLODING and that WILL pay dividends to us. We are a large school with a lot of Alumni, growth will happen. If the sports can ever make a turn, MT is ripe excel.
I became a bigger MT fan once I realized my degree (and my wife's masters, my brothers and his wife's degree and most of my friends) had a better perception when our Athletics do well.
Now MT sports have morphed into a family event where my kids feel the excitement that Mom and Dad have and they are fans. Against what some think here, I think MT has a bright future. Murfreesboro is EXPLODING and that WILL pay dividends to us. We are a large school with a lot of Alumni, growth will happen. If the sports can ever make a turn, MT is ripe excel.
We know that McPhee and the rest won't be here forever. I would just like their tenures here to end in my lifetime.
Given the state's treatment of this university, I expect them to replace stooge mcphee with someone even worse.
You’ll need to be more specific. Legislature? State agency? Governor’s office? And how is MT treated poorly?
It was a bad idea to try and take over a failing law school. MT having a professional degree program would be great. But not a law school and especially not a failing one. Which is why it failed.
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