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How to Define Success

Sounds like the basic fundamentals of an autonomous union, but without the union fees. And to be upfront I don't think anyone would be in opposition to such an idea. Question: How would the MTAAA (Middle Tennessee Athletic Alumni Association) hold this accountability of checks & balances towards the university & athletics dept?
Let's say the MTAAA was already in existence, & our stated goal was for CNM to win a minimum of 25 games & the CUSA championship along with going to the NCAA Tournament. However, the end of year result was a record of 18-14 with no championship & maybe an invite to the CBIT.
What then for the MTAAA? Not like we can demand or order all MT fans to not purchase season tickets, contribute to NIL, or march in protest (if CNM is given another extension) like a true union where said employees show their opposition by striking.
Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of a checks & balances association against what has been considered a poorly run university athletics department in the opinion of many caring alumni.
But where & how could an association as this truly yield effective power as to make a university stand up & listen to its grievances & from their take action that benefits everyone?

How to Define Success

As usual Doug you miss the point. It might be a good thing we don’t have a Haslam or Yellowood.

Look how bad things got screwed up in both Knoxville and Auburn with their over influence. This would be different.

But then again my outside the box thinking and vision has never held much court on any of our boards.

FOOTBALL Open Week comes at perfect time

When we got a new coach, I knew it wasn't gonna be a 1 year turnaround. It's gonna take a few years for Mason to get his pieces in place. The portal can help but the mid state recruiting and the new facility will be what really build us into a decent program. Stock had players but his coaching staff SUCKED. Now we have the opposite problem when they all left. It just is what it is.
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FOOTBALL Open Week comes at perfect time

You're making my point for me. You can't win when all your good and even decent players transfer out after every season.

But how is this any different than what every other low budgeted G5 team will face.

College football always had turnover. The only difference now is that the window has accelerated - instead of 3-4 years, the turnover will be 2 years.

How to Define Success

Why not? Probably a group of 10 to 20 people with diverse associations from the university. How do we not have enough for that?

If we don't have that we should be Division III across the board.

1. There’s no incentive for the AD to voluntarily give any sort of leverage to this committee.

2. The only way to force it would be if we had some deep pocketed parties who were interested and were willing to invest/withhold based upon the creation of this committee.

Which, considering what we’ve seen on how involve/invested our fans and boosters have been, I don’t think we have those parties.

Our fan base is basically a couple of thousand moderately enthused middle class fans. We don’t have a Yellowwood or a Haslam.

How to Define Success

Fantastic thoughts. Companies have mission statements and supporting goals/objectives for areas of the business. Filtered down, there are OKRs (Objective Key Results) for teams and individuals and then plans of execution. Extremely high level, but goes along the same lines.

The objectives you outlined, MT01, could be along the same lines as an OKR which are MEASURABLE goals and results.

I don't think our athletic department has a mission statement. Maybe they need to look in the mirror and figure out who or what they are. Are we always making decisions off the cuff or are we continually positioning ourselves to be the best with facilities and personel. Right now, we are not looking great on either of those (yet).

I love the idea.

I don't know how one would yield such power to apply pressure unless you had financial interest. You know the golden rule:

Those who have the gold makes the rules.
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How to Define Success

Football goals I agree with 100%. And here is the thing too. If someone tries to hire CDM AFTER he's met those goals, sure. Offer him a bit more money. But do not tie yourself to him like we've done before. Take the buyout and go hire someone else. Do it again. No coach at the G5 level is worth anchoring your school down to.

Basketball....let's say McD wins a champ. If we do extend, no more than a few years. The minimum for any coach should be 20 wins. If you can't hit 20 wins in this conference regularly, you shouldn't be here. There is more to it all of course as it is totally different than football.

As for a fan committee, I'm open to the idea. Depends on structure and how things are presented to the admin. Just saying here are our issues doesn't do any good. There needs to be a professional way to meet with them, and discuss both as a committee and with the admin. The issue is CM only has so much control here. I've seen schools give control to the AD and the President just signs off, like an NFL owner and GM. We don't operate that way especially when you throw in the Board.

If men's tennis, softball, WBB etc can win conference champs, zero reason our bell cows shouldn't either.

How to Define Success

And I'm not just talking about this board. I'm talking about plank holders, long time committed people, who have been stalwarts in the community.

I don't want to throw out names as examples of potential folks who would be good for this, because I don't think that's fair but you have people who have been deeply associated with the university and its athletics and could mix in others with different backgrounds who might be recent grads or otherwise alumni active in the community.

How to Define Success

I think the football goals are reasonable. I’m not a basketball fan, so I will leave that to others.

Football should always follow the below timeline:

Year 1: show improvement, pass the eye test, and I really want to see results on the recruiting trail.

Year 2: bowl game.

Year 3: contend for title.

Year 4: Conference title (or close enough to make you think that one will be coming soon).

If those goals aren’t met by year 4, you start over. This was the problem with the Stock era - we approached a bowl game like it was the ultimate goal; not a championship.

As for the second part - the fan oversight board for lack of a better term, we don’t have enough people for that.

How to Define Success

This is something that doesn't get talked about enough. How does MT define goals? And are they specific enough? We pay our two top program coaches a shit ton of money. Nick McDevitt should have already been fired, but what exactly does the braintrust set for goals for our programs? Because 40% win pct damn sure shouldn't be it so why is McDevitt still here?

This is a bit easier right now with Mason, because he's in year one. Fan bases don't always have the same level of goals in mind as the administration, but our administration has failed so as the fan base we need to outline reasonable and realistic goals. And if the two coaches in the two major sports don't achieve this then we as the alumni and fan base need to apply consistent campaign of pressure to hold them accountable since they don't hold themselves accountable and b) the athletic director's job needs to be on the line and tied to them too. And we're just going to talk about performance and not the academic side.

Football Goals
1. Bowl game in year 2
2. Over the next three years beat Western two times
3. Over the next four years win at least one conference championship

After four years you look back and you have not achieved most of this, Mason should not get a fifth year (unless he's really close like losing in the championship game in year 4) . Buy out that last year and move on to find someone who will. It's really that simple. It's time we start expecting results from individuals who are making a million dollars on the university's dime.

Basketball Goals
This one is tougher because we already have a guy who shouldn't be here, because he would not have met any of the goals we would have set when he was hired. Not one. So, for Nick there is only one...

For 2024-25, win a regular season or conference title or be fired.

There needs an athletic alumni association separate and apart from the university that convenes to be a check and balance, publicly outlines such objectives, and exists to not just support the university but to publicly hold it to account for the interests of the alumni and donors. That's my two cents.

FOOTBALL Open Week comes at perfect time

Yall are depressing.

You're right. It is. I'll stop repeating myself in different ways every time I post. I just think the whole thing is rotten and it feels like our favorite past time has been hijacked and we arn't getting it back.

I would love to see the G5 find a way to be able to bridge the gap between it all, but as more money pours in I'm not sure how that would work. Maybe congress could step in and try to force some parity in some sort of way. I can't imagine the NCAA or P4 ever doing something like that, obviously, so it would have to be a fed up government stepping in.

I just struggle to see a future where a school like MT can succeed. Maybe I'm missing something ?
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FOOTBALL G5 Needs A Collective Ultimatum

One solution would be multiyear contracts with players with a buyout clause if they transfer out. For example you sign a guy out of high school for 2 years $50k each year and if he wants to leave after one year he pays $50-$75K. Something to compensate the development school and give room for pause for the athlete.

I would still really like to see the restatement of sitting out a year if you transfer. That’s the only way to slow this down, give some stability and make it more fair for the broader group. Right now, just one transfer has the potential to cause a domino of more transfers on multiple teams.
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FOOTBALL Open Week comes at perfect time

All they will look at is wins.


You're making my point for me. You can't win when all your good and even decent players transfer out after every season.

And the argument that we shouldn't worry because our peers are screwed just as much doesn't fly with me. We used to stand a real chance in OOC games against lower P5 and upper G5 teams. I vividly remember beating up on Memphis, Southern Miss (when they were OOC), even Toledo and Bowling Green OOC wins who would pistol whip us now.

And then of course the Power 5 wins against Syracuse, Missouri, Maryland x2, Georgia Tech, Miami, Virginia (We won that game I don't care what anyone says, Dasher got that first down by a full yard I was sitting where the line to gain was and we would have kneeled it out after that. One million percent criminal outcome with that game and there should have been an FBI investigation)....

Now we will no longer be able to win those types of games because those teams are just going to take our good players after every season. Now the only thing we can look forward to is starting every season around 1-3 or 1-4, starting conference play and trying to win the worst conference in FBS + saying goodbye to all our good players after each season. What the F? What kind of existence is that?

FOOTBALL Open Week comes at perfect time

Mark my words: He will end his career wearing a P4 Jersey and a six figure payday
So what if he does. That's my take.

As long as they win while wearing an MT jersey, I could care less if they graduate from here or anything. Call it buying a win, so what. When it happens enough, kids will want to come to us because they know they will be developed and get noticed. No matter how big the P2 get there will always be guys that slip through the cracks and need a G5 to break through.

My loyalty to MT is because I spent four years here and graduated. Absolutely. But I don't expect everyone else to have that same loyalty if they choose not to. And fans aren't going to care either. All they will look at is wins. That champ banner will be here long after any player is gone and no one will remember if they were here for one year or four. No one cares Cam Newton was at Auburn for one year. He won a champ. If we win a conf champ and half the team leaves, we still have that champ.

MWC getting blown up

I know it can be hard to see and accept, but we are right where we belong at this time. Our administration and community has basically ignored our football program for the last 15 years. You simply can't do that and expect your peers to take you seriously.

Maybe after we get all our facilities built, win some championships, and get some support from the local community then we can expect other conferences to take us seriously.
Yes, I agree we are where we belong but the school and fans deserve better leadership and deserve something better. We don’t have much to offer, with the exception of a potentially great market once McPhee and Massaro move along we have a shot. They can’t be far away from retiring.

BUT - if we wait, it’s over. Better facilities and athletic success could take 5+years, by then the landscape has already been determined and we won’t even have a shot at a second tier subdivision. The gap will be too far apart. With the break between major conferences and second tier happening right now, we have to find a spot now or it’s over for us long term. I don’t ever seeing us having a chance to build it up if we wait.
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