FOOTBALL Thoughts on Deion at Boulder?

[Matt Dossett]

We discussed it in the GoMiddle staff group chat. I'm very intrigued to see how the Deion at Colorado saga unfolds. I think he will be a. good recruiter. @AustinLewis has pointed it out and it's true. you can get by with 8-4 at Colorado. Compared to schools like Auburn where they may run Freeze off if he doesn't consistently win 10....

I don't know the full scope of academics and admissions at CU but I'm banking on Deion getting the job done.

 

[RaiderDoug]

can he coach though?

He can Coach Prime his way to a few P5 transfers and a couple of higher end than normal recruits for FCS, and next thing you know, he’s facing Campbell and Bethune Colman with a vastly more talented roster.

He’s not going to have a huge talent advantage against Oregon, Washington, Utah, etc, so we’ll find out if he can actually coach.

 

[Matt Dossett]

Yeah very good point about playing talent where the playing field isn't tilted in your favor.

 

[MidTennMtneer]

He will draw the talent though. He essentially lit up an open for business sign in Boulder. It will by far be the most active school in the portal, in and out. He will laod his staff up with a mix of veterans and hungry young guys that will recruit like crazy. He's not gonna go win a national title but I easily could see him winning bowl games and being ranked.

 

[JohnDavidBlue]

He better back up his first speech with the current players with some success. Talk is talk.

I like the moxie but…..

 

[MidTennMtneer]

He better back up his first speech with the current players with some success. Talk is talk.

I like the moxie but…..

He's just not afraid to say what every other new coach is thinking. Essentially "I was hired to fix things and if you aren't good enough for me or willing to do it my way, then leave". Most coaches won't say that.

 

[dukewayne]

While I found his comments hitting close to home of MT regarding a culture that has become accepting of less than striving to be the best and complacent about that culture, there was a lot I didn't like or agree with.

It will be interesting to see how he coaches vs teams that have a similar talent level.

 

[MTLynn]

A good coach is able to inspire his players to consistently execute plays, and the more talented his players are, the more successful the team will be.

Deion has shown that he can recruit and motivate his guys.

With the portal in place, I believe he will have Colorado vying for National Championships within the next five years.

 

[DisgruntledAlum]

He's just not afraid to say what every other new coach is thinking. Essentially "I was hired to fix things and if you aren't good enough for me or willing to do it my way, then leave". Most coaches won't say that.

Mario at Miami a few weeks ago when he told parents they can come get their son if not happy with playing time.

Only time will tell how well he does, but it's a start with talk like that. As we all know though, talk is cheap.

 

[JohnDavidBlue]

Agree on all accounts.

I’ve read several times on this board where it is said that it’s not the players fault if the coaching is bad. Seems like there’s some gray area. Haven’t even had a chance to prove themselves and already being shown the door.

Deon will need to back up that big talk is all I’m saying. But I love his style.

 

[blueraiderJT]

That speech was a bucket of cold water thrown on those players. That's all that was. Those players did not look or act confident nor did they present themselves like they even wanted to be there. You come to meet your new coach not wearing team colors or being on brand means you don't care or are about the brand. Deion let em know that he has no time for those who don't take the time to commit to the brand. These are grown a$$ men. They need to know that things are gonna change and that they need to change as well.

Willie Taggart got hired to be on that staff BTW.

 

[RaiderDoug]

All that bombastic talk made for a good soundbite - but, it was a little bit of a turnoff. You can run off a bunch of lowly rated guys who can't do anything for you, but that just kind of reeks of bullying.

Plus, the more stars a guy shows up with, the harder it is to manage that guy. Mr.5-Star big ego who came to Colorado of all places ain't going to take much of the my way or the highway talk.

Deion's moved from FCS-finger painting to P5-chess. We'll see what happens when a little adversity hits.

 

[ewglenn]

I loved the speech. I felt myself thinking back to the military. Those talks really do work so I think he will be successful. I don’t think they will be competing for championships for awhile but I do think they will be bowling fast.

 

[ewglenn]

I looked to the only situation where a coach got rid of every player. Grambling State volleyball did that this year. I’ve been following to see if it would work. Well they went 15-12 and posted their first winning season since as far back as I could find (2011). We’re talking about historically one of the worst D1 programs turning it around in one offseason because of our side the box thinking. This stuff isn’t rocket science.

 

[AustinLewis]

Deion is who we all thought he was.

He's brutally honest. He raised the bar. Increased the energy around the program / fanbase.

He - and his staff - will recruit well. Can they coach them up enough to win? Who knows?

I don't buy into the culture problem (right now). Every major program has players with 5 star talent & HUGE egos. That problem isn't isolated to places with STARS (like Deion) for HC. The question can he manage the egos, the program, and the expectations.

 

[Sommy]

I have mixed thoughts.

1 - Can he actually coach? I suppose if he has good coordinators he can just be the loud mouthed CEO type, with swagger that will make it a fun place for players to be. But, I would worry that as a player would you actually get good coaching and preparation for the next level. I have concerns that long-term the lack of top quality coaching will be an issue.

2 - Portal King. I expect him to claim this title very early in his career, which will put a highly talented team on the field. But, see point #1, can they back it up? Also even at his prep academy he tried to start there were lots of issues with player tampering. Will this continue at the collegiate level, pushing kids to the portal?

3 - Roster. I can't even imagine being on a roster with the Portal King. He's going to tell you one thing to your face, then grab a guy from the portal that gets preferential treatment ahead of you. I would imagine this roster is going to turnover a lot. In and Out. Why on earth would you stay multiple years at a place like this, knowing your coach will never be loyal to the existing roster. That's sports though right? Maybe, but I think he will take it to the extreme. Sometimes kids need some stability and loyalty to actually build a team. You need a little cohesiveness right?

4 - Offensive and Defensive Scheme - It has to be very simplistic, or commonly used if your roster is going to be turning over so much. I would expect almost a new team each year with Prime Time. And then do the better X's and O's coached teams win over talent? Who knows?

5 - Deion himself is super shady. I live in DFW and there are no shortage of stories I have heard on the radio/news/etc over the years about scumbag things he has done. From not paying auto repair bills to his disaster at starting his own prep school. He is literally a used car salesman and I couldn't possibly trust him with my kid.

If you want to go down a rabbit hole, lookup Prime Prep Academy that he tried to start up and was a complete mess. Allegations of Racism (he liked to play the race card when questioned about obvious problems, players also had issues with racism), Fraud, improper influence, etc. were just the start.

My guess is he has some success early on by grabbing the top portal players, but I will probably smile when he can't continue the success.

 

[SpaceRaider]

This reminds me a little of when Boots Donnelly was hired. Boots was sort of the mid-state coaching celebrity after coaching Father Ryan to a state championship, and then after a vandy coaching stint, won Austin Peay's first OVC championship. Boots had a reputation for being the strict disciplinarian. Under the old MT coach, Ben Hurt, the inmates had been running the asylum and resulted in some really bad teams. By the time spring football practice had happened and football season rolled around around there were few if any returnees, and the first two seasons, Boots fielded 1 and 2- win teams but the third season the Raiders went 6-5 and had a nice foundation for the 1985 undefeated regular season that came several seasons later.

Not saying the same will happen for Sanders and Colorado, but if he holds true to his statements I think he will have some success there.

 

[MT Glenn]

This is a huge step up. The SWAC is by far the worst scholarship conference in FCS and may be worse than some of the non-scholarship conferences. The talent he attracted was enough to win games without any necessary coaching ability. I don't really think he can coach but his leadership and motivational skills might be enough to go bowling, if he has the ability to select a quality staff. A conference championship? I'd be shocked.

 

[Raiderclyde]

This reminds me a little of when Boots Donnelly was hired. Boots was sort of the mid-state coaching celebrity after coaching Father Ryan to a state championship, and then after a vandy coaching stint, won Austin Peay's first OVC championship. Boots had a reputation for being the strict disciplinarian. Under the old MT coach, Ben Hurt, the inmates had been running the asylum and resulted in some really bad teams. By the time spring football practice had happened and football season rolled around around there were few if any returnees, and the first two seasons, Boots fielded 1 and 2- win teams but the third season the Raiders went 6-5 and had a nice foundation for the 1985 undefeated regular season that came several seasons later.

Not saying the same will happen for Sanders and Colorado, but if he holds true to his statements I think he will have some success there.

I miss the days of Boots Donnelly and a straightforward, disciplinarian approach he exhibited in coaching. Only Roy Kidd at EKU and Erk Russell at Georgia Southern were head and shoulders above Boots in what was known as 1-AA in his 20+-year coaching era. Roy participated in four championship games, winning two and Erk Russell winning three as I recall (GA Southern won multiple championships since). Erk Russell BUILT Georgia Southern from scratch in about a four-year span from creation to defeating MT in our perfect regular season year enroute to a 13-2 season and a national championship at the close of 1985. These three coaches have what the picture of a longstanding, successful career should look like.

With regards to Deion's coaching move, making great first impressions are important. Think he accomplished that with some of the players. Many will not make it to the team and no doubt several will transfer to be a part of the program. Would rather see a coach like Deion emphatically state expectations to an existing roster than to paint rainbows and lollipops falsely to a 1-11 team. Players have to buy into what the coaches teach and there is considerable preparation and practice that must occur for proper development. Boots went through the painful one- and two-win seasons in 1979 and 1980, probably as a function of limited recruiting and the "cupboard being totally bare"--year three was his breakthrough year at 6-5 IIRC before going on the 1980's playoff run and the undefeated 1985 season. With the portal and propensity for players to move more freely, access to players with public figure coach that task is easier at Colorado given its visibility; however, that is tempered by the "win immediately" culture where a coach gets 2-3 years instead of 4-5 and there is no compunction in firing a head coach at mid-season if the "season becomes lost". In an ideal world, Deion needed to stay at JSU for 1-2 more years to entrench a deeper legacy more prominently in terms of national exposure, scholarships, and quality facilities if that were his goal as he projected when accepting the JSU job. However, the college coaching carousel rarely works on ideals. One obviously needs to consider both family and personal opportunities while building a brand and championship culture with the resources that are available. Thus, that's why he likely chose Colorado.

I see Colorado being in the same conversation with USC, Oregon, Washington, and Utah in 2-3 years. Will they be in the future 12-team playoff? Think there is an excellent chance, National championship? who knows. Deion earned this opportunity based on his HOF NFL and successful 27-5 coaching record coming off of a 12-0 championship season. Time will tell if these skills are fully transferable to PAC-12 football.

 

[mtfblue]

Here is what will happen, he will get a wake up call when he see's he doesn't have more talent than his conference mates. He won't have a capable backup QB until his son is gone. His son will be the Achilles heal for the CU buffs, as he struggled against FCS defenses reading coverage and making the right decisions. Go look at games, he throws into double coverage or takes bad sacks a lot. That defense the last 2 years has covered a lot things as the offense was sporadic. So we will see if he can coach at the P5 level. I don't think the way he did things at Jackson St will translate at UC. Heck they were confused when they introduced him and he was playing Tupac and doing his lil dance. There is some behind the scenes things that is supposed to come out from an insider at Jackson St as well.

 

[FranklinRaider315]

This reminds me a little of when Boots Donnelly was hired. Boots was sort of the mid-state coaching celebrity after coaching Father Ryan to a state championship, and then after a vandy coaching stint, won Austin Peay's first OVC championship. Boots had a reputation for being the strict disciplinarian. Under the old MT coach, Ben Hurt, the inmates had been running the asylum and resulted in some really bad teams. By the time spring football practice had happened and football season rolled around around there were few if any returnees, and the first two seasons, Boots fielded 1 and 2- win teams but the third season the Raiders went 6-5 and had a nice foundation for the 1985 undefeated regular season that came several seasons later.

Not saying the same will happen for Sanders and Colorado, but if he holds true to his statements I think he will have some success there.

Having lunch with him and a mutual friend this Friday. He told our mutual friend that there will be no discussions about “Memphis State”. 😂😂

 

[Sommy]

Here is what will happen, he will get a wake up call when he see's he doesn't have more talent than his conference mates. He won't have a capable backup QB until his son is gone. His son will be the Achilles heal for the CU buffs, as he struggled against FCS defenses reading coverage and making the right decisions. Go look at games, he throws into double coverage or takes bad sacks a lot. That defense the last 2 years has covered a lot things as the offense was sporadic. So we will see if he can coach at the P5 level. I don't think the way he did things at Jackson St will translate at UC. Heck they were confused when they introduced him and he was playing Tupac and doing his lil dance. There is some behind the scenes things that is supposed to come out from an insider at Jackson St as well.

I agree. If you are a QB, why would you go there right now? His son will be the starter and when he leaves, Deion will look to the portal for the top QB available. So why sit and learn at CU when you will likely never get a chance. Seems silly. These coaches going all in with the portal are going to realize nobody wants to commit to the program out of high school because they never get a shot. And transfer players want to start immediately and not ride the bench. I worry about depth beyond the starters.

What is the story about the insider at JS? What are you hearing?

 

[MidTennMtneer]

Transfers will be great for him the first year or two. Then someone will be in the portal he wants more, the incumbent transfers out, and Deion is stuck with no depth. It'll catch up with him in about 3yrs. I still think he will go bowling etc but it will catch up with him.

Look at JT Daniels. Played at USC, then Georgia, then WVU. Got benched the last game of the season, knew he wouldn't start next year. Entered the portal this morning. It's gonna get to the point that the portal will have more players like that. Plus, how in creation can you get a decent education moving through 4 schools.

 

[SpaceRaider]

Having lunch with him and a mutual friend this Friday. He told our mutual friend that there will be no discussions about “Memphis State”. 😂😂

I know plenty don't but I love what he did while at MT and loved his ambition for the program. Hold him in the same regard as Dr. Walker, Coach Murphy, and Jimmy Earle.

 

[AustinLewis]

Transfers will be great for him the first year or two. Then someone will be in the portal he wants more, the incumbent transfers out, and Deion is stuck with no depth. It'll catch up with him in about 3yrs. I still think he will go bowling etc but it will catch up with him.

Look at JT Daniels. Played at USC, then Georgia, then WVU. Got benched the last game of the season, knew he wouldn't start next year. Entered the portal this morning. It's gonna get to the point that the portal will have more players like that. Plus, how in creation can you get a decent education moving through 4 schools.

As someone who went to 3 schools for undergrad and has graduate credit from 3 institutions, I kinda laughed at this...

 

[MidTennMtneer]

As someone who went to 3 schools for undergrad and has graduate credit from 3 institutions, I kinda laughed at this...

You have it more together than I for sure. I'm not afraid to admit I'd be way lost, losing track of what I did where and what I still have left.

 

[blueraiderJT]

All that bombastic talk made for a good soundbite - but, it was a little bit of a turnoff. You can run off a bunch of lowly rated guys who can't do anything for you, but that just kind of reeks of bullying.

Plus, the more stars a guy shows up with, the harder it is to manage that guy. Mr.5-Star big ego who came to Colorado of all places ain't going to take much of the my way or the highway talk.

Deion's moved from FCS-finger painting to P5-chess. We'll see what happens when a little adversity hits.

Do you want to win or don't you? That's what he said. No bullying. Their fate is in their own hands. If they put themselves out there and grind, They will be fine. Again, Deion has won at every level on the field. He's the only atlhete to compete in a Super Bowl and a World Series. He's got a motor and he's gonna push them. Hey we got Stock who's got a potato clock for a motor. Which would you have? Hungry with some swag or a breathing corpse with no clue? I know which one I'm rolling with.

He's already bringing in talent. It's gonna go down.

 

[blueraiderJT]

As someone who went to 3 schools for undergrad and has graduate credit from 3 institutions, I kinda laughed at this...

Deion is doing EXACTLY what Lincoln Riley did at USC and everyone is aplauding him which I find interesting. This is what the portal is for and it's the new normal.

 

[blueraiderJT]

This is a huge step up. The SWAC is by far the worst scholarship conference in FCS and may be worse than some of the non-scholarship conferences. The talent he attracted was enough to win games without any necessary coaching ability. I don't really think he can coach but his leadership and motivational skills might be enough to go bowling, if he has the ability to select a quality staff. A conference championship? I'd be shocked.

He's got something we don't have with Stock. 2 outright conference titles. He doesn't have to coach. He has to manage. The position coaches and coordinators run the real coaching. If he took CU bowling with their schedule, That is success. More than they've had in a loooooong time.

 

[MidTennMtneer]

Deion is doing EXACTLY what Lincoln Riley did at USC and everyone is aplauding him which I find interesting. This is what the portal is for and it's the new normal.

It is the new normal. The days of having to give a coach 4-5 years to build a program are gone.
It's 2, 3 tops.

Coach year 1 and learn what you need, use the portal to fix it and win year 2.

ADs not firing a coach because it will "set the program back three years" are now getting fired themselves.

 

[AustinLewis]

Deion is doing EXACTLY what Lincoln Riley did at USC and everyone is aplauding him which I find interesting. This is what the portal is for and it's the new normal.

Exactly.

Coaches who find a way to use the portal to their advantage will have a leg up on their competition.

Like it or not. The portal is the new normal. Use it.

 

[AustinLewis]

You have it more together than I for sure. I'm not afraid to admit I'd be way lost, losing track of what I did where and what I still have left.

I'm a bit of a higher ed geek. Even now, I've found myself watching MT BoT meetings, reading the MT BoT minutes, and reading accreditation manuals just for fun. (I should add I spent last night reading a doctoral dissertation on my iPad just for fun).

But, as a student, I read the catalog, studied the class schedules, and did some research. And then told my advisors "this is what I need. Register me."

Financial aid, on the other hand, was different. Schools handle all that stuff differently and it's a learning experience each time.

 

[RaiderDoug]

Do you want to win or don't you? That's what he said. No bullying. Their fate is in their own hands. If they put themselves out there and grind, They will be fine. Again, Deion has won at every level on the field. He's the only atlhete to compete in a Super Bowl and a World Series. He's got a motor and he's gonna push them. Hey we got Stock who's got a potato clock for a motor. Which would you have? Hungry with some swag or a breathing corpse with no clue? I know which one I'm rolling with.

He's already bringing in talent. It's gonna go down.

I get it, it's a bottom line business. But there's some tact involved. The guys on the roster's only crime is not being good enough. Unless there was an attitude issue or an effort issue (and I don't follow CU enough to know), there is probably a better way to handle the transition.

In the end, it raises the stakes a bit, the leash gets a little bit shorter. He's not going to be able to completely flip the roster, so a good portion of what he takes the field with next fall is sitting in that room. Getting buy in can go a long way to staying competitive while you flip the roster.

And if things don't go Deion's way, the way you treat people tends to come back and bite hard.

 

[MidTennMtneer]

I get it, it's a bottom line business. But there's some tact involved. The guys on the roster's only crime is not being good enough. Unless there was an attitude issue or an effort issue (and I don't follow CU enough to know), there is probably a better way to handle the transition.

In the end, it raises the stakes a bit, the leash gets a little bit shorter. He's not going to be able to completely flip the roster, so a good portion of what he takes the field with next fall is sitting in that room. Getting buy in can go a long way to staying competitive while you flip the roster.

And if things don't go Deion's way, the way you treat people tends to come back and bite hard.

I tend to agree. I get what he said and with a lot of it I agree. But like the QB that has entered the portal. Deion is bringing his son. I get his reasons why but he couldn't even give the other QB, or any of the existing guys, a shot?

Yes they were 1-11 but not all of that is talent. Some spots, absolutely. But not all.

Like I said earlier. This will work great for a few years. Then it will bite him. He will need some depth and development and won't have it. The portal isn't a long term non-stop strategy. You still have to develop players.

 

[mtfblue]

I agree. If you are a QB, why would you go there right now? His son will be the starter and when he leaves, Deion will look to the portal for the top QB available. So why sit and learn at CU when you will likely never get a chance. Seems silly. These coaches going all in with the portal are going to realize nobody wants to commit to the program out of high school because they never get a shot. And transfer players want to start immediately and not ride the bench. I worry about depth beyond the starters.

What is the story about the insider at JS? What are you hearing?

story is supposed to come out today

 

[mtfblue]

I tend to agree. I get what he said and with a lot of it I agree. But like the QB that has entered the portal. Deion is bringing his son. I get his reasons why but he couldn't even give the other QB, or any of the existing guys, a shot?

Yes they were 1-11 but not all of that is talent. Some spots, absolutely. But not all.

Like I said earlier. This will work great for a few years. Then it will bite him. He will need some depth and development and won't have it. The portal isn't a long term non-stop strategy. You still have to develop players.

That roster was very young last season. That was more of the issue, and then coaching

 

[blueraiderJT]

I tend to agree. I get what he said and with a lot of it I agree. But like the QB that has entered the portal. Deion is bringing his son. I get his reasons why but he couldn't even give the other QB, or any of the existing guys, a shot?

Yes they were 1-11 but not all of that is talent. Some spots, absolutely. But not all.

Like I said earlier. This will work great for a few years. Then it will bite him. He will need some depth and development and won't have it. The portal isn't a long term non-stop strategy. You still have to develop players.

Oh, he's flipping that roster. Riley flipped his in under a year. Prime already had over 50 4 star and above players in the portal reach out.

 

[blueraiderJT]

Here is what will happen, he will get a wake up call when he see's he doesn't have more talent than his conference mates. He won't have a capable backup QB until his son is gone. His son will be the Achilles heal for the CU buffs, as he struggled against FCS defenses reading coverage and making the right decisions. Go look at games, he throws into double coverage or takes bad sacks a lot. That defense the last 2 years has covered a lot things as the offense was sporadic. So we will see if he can coach at the P5 level. I don't think the way he did things at Jackson St will translate at UC. Heck they were confused when they introduced him and he was playing Tupac and doing his lil dance. There is some behind the scenes things that is supposed to come out from an insider at Jackson St as well.

JSU owes him money because they were supposed to give him some of the ticket sales and they never did. Plus, a player he asked to walk on in 23 ended up killed on campus which is another reason he's leaving and pulling his kids out of there. Jackson is a dangerous place.

 

[blueraiderJT]

story is supposed to come out today

Where's it at? There ain't no story. You don't think they didn't check into everything before they committed millions to him. Why the scrutiny on Deion when no one says anything about Hugh Sleaze and his tampering with a witness in a abuse case going on at Liberty? He called the woman and told her to drop the case. He gets hired and no one says sh!t. Riley told all those players at USC they gone and he flipped that roster. He's celebrated for it.

Let a successful black man with some swagger elevate a school out of no where, get the P5 job and the wolves come out. It's bullsh!t.

If Deion came here, I'd run out in the streets naked, painted blue losing my mind in happiness. He's a winner ON EVERY LEVEL. What the F did Stock win? Let's schedule Colorado and they will dance on our helmets buried in the turf BY HALFTIME.

 

[mtfblue]

Where's it at? There ain't no story. You don't think they didn't check into everything before they committed millions to him. Why the scrutiny on Deion when no one says anything about Hugh Sleaze and his tampering with a witness in a abuse case going on at Liberty? He called the woman and told her to drop the case. He gets hired and no one says sh!t. Riley told all those players at USC they gone and he flipped that roster. He's celebrated for it.

Let a successful black man with some swagger elevate a school out of no where, get the P5 job and the wolves come out. It's bullsh!t.

If Deion came here, I'd run out in the streets naked, painted blue losing my mind in happiness. He's a winner ON EVERY LEVEL. What the F did Stock win? Let's schedule Colorado and they will dance on our helmets buried in the turf BY HALFTIME.

I have no idea, on what has happened in the last 4 months. The guy is on twitter, he is alum/insider Ken Clark. He posted the other day about the story coming out sometime today. I was happy he elevated the HBCU's I'm a AAMU alum. SO we will see what is said if anything comes out. Didn't know about the kid being killed, they have kept that under wraps. Hell MT would've had a chance if Massaro would've pulled the trigger on stockstill.