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Stock on tape admitting wrong-doing?

From what I understand, the university hired a 3rd party to do the investigation. The 3rd party found nothing.

You nor me knows what was found. Nor do we know how thorough it was. All the univ did was put out a press release that said it conducted a "review outside of the athetlics dept." That is not an investigation. Nor does it say it was done by a third party.

So, all we have is the university ostensibly reviewing the situation itself and then putting out a press statement saying the reports about itself and employees were unfounded.

If the university wanted to take this seriously they actually would bring in a third party - as you suggest - to investigate the allegations and then make the final report public. That has not happened.
 
You nor me knows what was found. Nor do we know how thorough it was. All the univ did was put out a press release that said it conducted a "review outside of the athetlics dept." That is not an investigation. Nor does it say it was done by a third party.

So, all we have is the university ostensibly reviewing the situation itself and then putting out a press statement saying the reports about itself and employees were unfounded.

If the university wanted to take this seriously they actually would bring in a third party - as you suggest - to investigate the allegations and then make the final report public. That has not happened.

Exactly.

And the University statement did not say an outside 3rd party investigated, it said a review outside of athletics was conducted. This still could be in house reviews at this point.

And 3rd party reviews by someone hired by one organization to clear itself doesn't always go well...

See Larry Nassar:
"By USA Gymnastics' own admission, it did not inform law enforcement immediately. Instead it hired a private investigator who interviewed Nichols and then Olympic gold-medalist Aly Raisman, but the organization said it did not have "a reasonable suspicion" that a crime had occurred." - great investigation....

Again, I am not saying something happened or there was a cover up, but MW not filing a police report or not reporting it for years, plus the university statement does not necessarily mean nothing happened.

I agree with you 100%, release the full review and who did the review. Also, like mtfblue said earlier, release the film of incident. Show some interviews with lineman that were witnesses.
 
Police report or not. The timing and delivery is odd.

Having a hard time projecting Nasser’s case onto this one. Have you seen the size of Mike Williams? Also, nobody was playing tidly winks in the locker room like Sandusky. This was allegedly in plain sight.
 
Police report or not. The timing and delivery is odd.

Having a hard time projecting Nasser’s case onto this one. Have you seen the size of Mike Williams? Also, nobody was playing tidly winks in the locker room like Sandusky. This was allegedly in plain sight.

The truth is MW is probably dealing with some mental health issues. Either he was abused or he made this up. Either way, I hope he is getting the help he needs. When dealing with mental health issues, timing kinda goes out the door. You would be surprised how many victims by authority figures could are physically larger but allow things to happen. And how many people are still working through traumas from 30-40 years ago. Things that would not effect you or me, I mean we might not even remember, might really mess with someone else’s mind . We are all different.


I agree with you though this was allegedly in plain sight. Release the video or get statements from witnesses and close the book.
 
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Police report or not. The timing and delivery is odd.

Having a hard time projecting Nasser’s case onto this one. Have you seen the size of Mike Williams? Also, nobody was playing tidly winks in the locker room like Sandusky. This was allegedly in plain sight.

Agreed. I don't have a high degree of confidence in these allegations. However, I don't think the university did enough. The athletic dept has always preferred to sweep under rugs than be transparent. Could have been handled better as opposed to the minimal effort they put forth. Have they even heard the full recording? There could be something on there they haven't even heard that is more damaging than Twiddle Dee and Twiddle Dum even realize. And like I said before the way Williams is going about it is defeating his on credibility.
 
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Mike Williams here, I’m not going to respond to everyone but I’ll make a few points.

I released parts of the tape so far (which I’ll release more soon if this has to continue but I’m not with the tape now) because as I said in the statement I wanted closure and sincerity from Stock and gave him 2 chances to “do the right thing” as he likes to say.

I’ve only talked about the things I know are fact which should be enough for you guys so I hope you question Stock as much as you have me. If he’s as honorable of a man as he claims to be then there’s no way he will look in your eyes and tell you this didn’t happen.

I was assaulted twice as a matter of fact (both of which I reported to the university) a second time by defensive line coach John Palermo in a one-on-one offensive line defensive line drill. He walked in my personal space and told me to move because I was cheering my offensive line team mate on loudly who was beating his defensive lineman in the drill. I didn’t move and he started throwing punches at which point I grab him and it was broken up. This was seen by a smaller group of people and wasn’t as serious of an attack as the first but none the less Stock caught the tail end of that altercation and was very aware of it being the final person to break us up once he ran down when he heard the commotion.

If I was such a trouble maker would I have realistically been able to stay on the team? Assaulting two coaches? I don’t think so. Or maybe I just felt pressured to keep it to myself because of public and peers reactions which as you can tell was warranted.

But now I made the decision to do what I did for closure and I asked to speak with Stock and he denied so what was I supposed to do. Let it slide? No... He did some very hateful things (a lot I can’t prove) to not only me but many other folks but they don’t all have the courage to speak up like I do.
 
And lastly I want to make this clear, yes I have a problem with how I was treated at MTSU but as I closed it my official statement I stated I wanted to do this for the culture of player treatment and I sincerely mean that.

Players shouldn’t have to fear speaking up about wrongdoings they see or deal with because of fear and then eventually letting it fade into the wind. I hope players continue to speak up but I had to pick a side of the fence. Sorry if it’s against your favorite team, trust me I put more into this program then you probably did.
 
Mike Williams here, I’m not going to respond to everyone but I’ll make a few points.

I released parts of the tape so far (which I’ll release more soon if this has to continue but I’m not with the tape now) because as I said in the statement I wanted closure and sincerity from Stock and gave him 2 chances to “do the right thing” as he likes to say.

I’ve only talked about the things I know are fact which should be enough for you guys so I hope you question Stock as much as you have me. If he’s as honorable of a man as he claims to be then there’s no way he will look in your eyes and tell you this didn’t happen.

I was assaulted twice as a matter of fact (both of which I reported to the university) a second time by defensive line coach John Palermo in a one-on-one offensive line defensive line drill. He walked in my personal space and told me to move because I was cheering my offensive line team mate on loudly who was beating his defensive lineman in the drill. I didn’t move and he started throwing punches at which point I grab him and it was broken up. This was seen by a smaller group of people and wasn’t as serious of an attack as the first but none the less Stock caught the tail end of that altercation and was very aware of it being the final person to break us up once he ran down when he heard the commotion.

If I was such a trouble maker would I have realistically been able to stay on the team? Assaulting two coaches? I don’t think so. Or maybe I just felt pressured to keep it to myself because of public and peers reactions which as you can tell was warranted.

But now I made the decision to do what I did for closure and I asked to speak with Stock and he denied so what was I supposed to do. Let it slide? No... He did some very hateful things (a lot I can’t prove) to not only me but many other folks but they don’t all have the courage to speak up like I do.

So, wait, you got beat up twice now?

Ok, that's not acceptable. But this seems like it should be easily corroborated. Let's see if someone can verify your story (other than blacked out text msgs).

Could it have been misconstrued? I once was doing a drill with a coach on the DL back in high school, and we were doing it wrong, so our hyper intense coach kind of shoved his way into us, and I definately got pushed back. I never thought much of it again, but I could see how in certain frames of mind, once could see it as a physical attack. Kind of like Jimbo FIsher grabbing that kid's facemask a few weeks ago at A&M - I don't see it as a huge deal, but others have called it assault.

The rest of the stuff seems like axe grinding. You passed a drug test when you knew you would have failed it? You should send a thank you card to Stock - you kept your 'ship and got your college paid for instead of getting booted off the team. Plus, you're the one putting junk in your body.

As for the pro-day allegation? I dunno. That seems like it sucks. But again, I think we need more information. Have other players not been allowed to train? Were there some extenuating circumstances - i.e. Spray's time constraints, some systemic things going on (i.e. facilities closed that spring, etc)?

Maybe, they just didn't want you personally around - I won't cast any stones here - perhaps it's a personality conflict, etc. These things can happen to 2 people who are otherwise fine people. I don't think they are under any obligation to committ resources to anyone after they leave the program.

I dunno man, your version of events ,if true, paints a nasty picture. But considering the lengths of time that went by, and the lack of any corroboration or evidence - I don't know if we can treat your story as anything more than the axe grinding of a disgruntled ex-player.
 
So, wait, you got beat up twice now?

Ok, that's not acceptable. But this seems like it should be easily corroborated. Let's see if someone can verify your story (other than blacked out text msgs).

Could it have been misconstrued? I once was doing a drill with a coach on the DL back in high school, and we were doing it wrong, so our hyper intense coach kind of shoved his way into us, and I definately got pushed back. I never thought much of it again, but I could see how in certain frames of mind, once could see it as a physical attack. Kind of like Jimbo FIsher grabbing that kid's facemask a few weeks ago at A&M - I don't see it as a huge deal, but others have called it assault.

The rest of the stuff seems like axe grinding. You passed a drug test when you knew you would have failed it? You should send a thank you card to Stock - you kept your 'ship and got your college paid for instead of getting booted off the team. Plus, you're the one putting junk in your body.

As for the pro-day allegation? I dunno. That seems like it sucks. But again, I think we need more information. Have other players not been allowed to train? Were there some extenuating circumstances - i.e. Spray's time constraints, some systemic things going on (i.e. facilities closed that spring, etc)?

Maybe, they just didn't want you personally around - I won't cast any stones here - perhaps it's a personality conflict, etc. These things can happen to 2 people who are otherwise fine people. I don't think they are under any obligation to committ resources to anyone after they leave the program.

I dunno man, your version of events ,if true, paints a nasty picture. But considering the lengths of time that went by, and the lack of any corroboration or evidence - I don't know if we can treat your story as anything more than the axe grinding of a disgruntled ex-player.


You make really good points.

I will add advice to MW:

1. Go to a reputable reporter, Monte Hale, Luis Torres or Casey Bowman on this site. Releasing information through the person you chose hurts your credibility.

2. I would suggest you get legal representation before you say or release anything else.

3. Do not post on or respond to message board threads. It will hurt credibility. Contact the publishers of GoMiddle directly.

4. If you were assaulted, you have been dealing with trauma for a long time. Or if something else is going on, please find a good counselor.


No matter how this turns out, it’s sad.
 
Some of you guys attacking this kid is absolutely crazy, no one knows what happened but him and stock. who has more of a reason to lie? Stock has 900k reason to cover this up. I honestly think this is not good either way. No clue, just taking in what has been said and the lack of response by the university is speaking volumes to me. Just wait and see before judging either side.
 
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Some of you guys attacking this kid is absolutely crazy, no one knows what happened but him and stock. who has more of a reason to lie? Stock has 900k reason to cover this up. I honestly think this is not good either way. No clue, just taking in what has been said and the lack of response by the university is speaking volumes to me. Just wait and see before judging either side.

You can't be forced to prove something didn't happen. We just went through 2 weeks of national trauma about it.

If you make an accusation - the burden of proof is on you to prove that allegation. A fuzzy tape recording of who knows what and a couple of blacked out texts proves nothing.

I'm no Stock fan and frankly, if this gets us out from under that lifetime contract with cause, i'm not going to shed any tears - but by any stretch of the imagination this does not meet any reasonable standard to prove that anything that Williams is saying actually happened.

And the thing is - you can't say that "no one knows what happened other than him and Stock".

This should be pretty easy to prove. You can't beat up a player in the middle of practice or the locker room without someone seeing. The players involved are no longer here at MT, so they've no reason to participate in a cover up, they've nothing to lose. It's not like the MT fan base is Bama crazy, outside of this board, i'm not sure anyone would really care what's going on - it's not like there would be any real repurcussions for telling the truth.
 
Some of you guys attacking this kid is absolutely crazy, no one knows what happened but him and stock. who has more of a reason to lie? Stock has 900k reason to cover this up. I honestly think this is not good either way. No clue, just taking in what has been said and the lack of response by the university is speaking volumes to me. Just wait and see before judging either side.

According to him it happened in front of the entire team, so there are alot of people that know if this happened or not.

The University did respond
 
You can't be forced to prove something didn't happen. We just went through 2 weeks of national trauma about it.

If you make an accusation - the burden of proof is on you to prove that allegation. A fuzzy tape recording of who knows what and a couple of blacked out texts proves nothing.

I'm no Stock fan and frankly, if this gets us out from under that lifetime contract with cause, i'm not going to shed any tears - but by any stretch of the imagination this does not meet any reasonable standard to prove that anything that Williams is saying actually happened.

And the thing is - you can't say that "no one knows what happened other than him and Stock".

This should be pretty easy to prove. You can't beat up a player in the middle of practice or the locker room without someone seeing. The players involved are no longer here at MT, so they've no reason to participate in a cover up, they've nothing to lose. It's not like the MT fan base is Bama crazy, outside of this board, i'm not sure anyone would really care what's going on - it's not like there would be any real repurcussions for telling the truth.


That's my point, why would the kid lie about what happened in front of 105 other players? If it wasn't true, wouldn't one of the players call him out on his this?
 
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That's my point, why would the kid lie about what happened in front of 105 other players? If it wasn't true, wouldn't one of the players call him out on his this?

Why wouldn't one of the 105 other players present at the time come out and back him up on this?

I can think of several scenarios at play:

1. Maybe he's telling the truth. Like I said, there are plenty of avenues to prove this.

2. Maybe he has a different perspective with what happened?

Like I said before, I'm not sure shoving or slapping a helmet is actual assault on a football field when you're getting coached hard. Maybe to him it is. Maybe to others it's just hard coaching. Like i mentioned before, I've played for coaches who slapped the back of my helmet when I did something wrong. They slapped it when I did something right too. I never felt it was malicious - frankly, i felt like I probably needed it from time to time. Someone else might consider it violence. If you consider any physical contact assault, I was multiple victims of assault and battery. Thinking back, I'd like to buy said coach a beer for assaulting me and getting a knuckleheaded 17 year old with my head up my butt to grow up a little.

3. Maybe he's lying - like I said, people hold grudges for all sorts of reasons. He already alludes to the fact that he's not happy that Stock barred him from pro-day. Perhaps he blames Stock/MT for costing him a pro-career? Perhaps this is a pre-cursor to civil action and a settlement.

I don't know.

But I can say that, being completely objective here - what he's put forth is not definitive proof or evidence of what actually may have happened.
 
Also, we had a very active beat writer back then. Sparks would have heard rumors and would have known something was up too. You don't get into a very public heated confrontation without it being noticed and it causing ripples. Do they not run video of practices? Yes, they totally do. There would have been video of this going down as well.

Basically, Mr. Williams who is a man now, not a kid, is going to have an uphill battle proving any of his allegations. The way it was introduced to the public was irresponsible and stupid. The fact that he got a meeting with Stock and went in with a recorder hidden in a pocket is proof that he was trying to set Stock up. No grudge or vendetta there right? LOL. He then says it isn't edited but he then chooses precise excerpts to prove his point without releasing the ENTIRE conversation is further proof to me that this thing is cooked.

Mr Williams. I'll address you as a man since you are one. If you have a legitimate complaint against the program and there is wrongdoing and proof to it, then collect REAL evidence. Get interviews and testimony from witnesses, construct coherent arguments and hire a lawyer to present this to the proper UPPER leadership of the university. Release the entire conversation through a trusted source in the media and give a real interview. This dude you chose to rep you is an idiot at best who is not a REAL member of the media and he's using you to get attention to himself. If you are going to take it there, then do so. If at the end, it results in Stock's firing because of serious findings, then so be it.

However, life is usually a 2 way street and it always takes 2 or more elements to start a fire. In regards to the piss tests, you are saying he manipulated the tests. IF any of that is true at all, then what it means is that he had your back. You're whole argument is saying that he didn't. If he truly did that, then he risked his job for you instead of dismissing you. To try to expose him for that is lame as hell but if he did do that and you can without a doubt prove that, then that's enough to get him fired. It's crappy and shows your character or lack thereof but it's enough on it's own.

In regards to the "abuse", were there injuries, bruises, cuts, marks? Did others outside the program see these marks? Were they photographed? Do you have sworn testimony from other players? Just saying. You got to get it all together. These loosely implied tweets aren't enough. You gotta vacuum seal this thing and have air tight testimony and legit proof. If you think we're tough on here, imagine what Stock's or MT's attorneys will be like.

The Spray thing will never move past your rumblings. That's not an punishable offense. That just comes across as sour grapes. Even if it's true, it's a crappy thing to have happen but the coaches have a right of preference there and every other coach in football does stuff like this. Can you honestly say that you had the absolute best attitude and didn't do anything wrong ever in the program? If you're not perfect, how can anyone else be?

I honestly don't know what happened and I'm not purposely belittling your claims. The timing doesn't help your cause. There is no REAL hardcore proof yet and you used a very inexperienced wannabe "media" person to try to bring light to this and that's murdering your credibility.

I wish you luck in your life.
 
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Going on a message board seems pretty desperate on his part after the University shot down his allegations. I'd be willing to bet money he's already contacted a lawyer and they wouldn't take the case (because he doesn't have one).

So now he's on the internet trying to slander the University, Jimmy Ray Stephens, and Coach Stockstill.

I mean come the heck on guys. Look at the timing of when he brings it up. This happened 10ish years ago and it all comes out after our best start in conference in years. You think that's a coincidence? Duhhhh no it's not.

Dude clearly has a MASSIVE axe to grind with Stockstill. He probably wanted to meet with him to ask for $$$$ or he's going public with his little tape.

This whole incident just infuriates me because of the way Mr. Williams is going about it all. It reeks of bullshit and I'm calling him out on it. The timing also couldn't be worse, but he obviously doesn't care.

Mr. Williams, if you waited this long, why not wait until the season is over before bringing this up? I thought you cared about the players.....

Guys, think about if this happened to you or your son/daughter....Would you be on freakin GoMiddle.com and writing confessionals on Medium.... or hiring a lawyer and doing it the right way? That's what I thought.
 
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