FOOTBALL Open Week comes at perfect time

[SpaceRaider]

“We're all tired of being tired” - Open Week comes at perfect time for MTSU Football to reset - Middle Tennessee State University Athletics

MEMPHIS, Tenn. — Derek Mason felt good about his team coming into Saturday against Memphis. The early weeks of the 2024 season that featured Middle Tennessee football

goblueraiders.com

 

[ewglenn]

“We're all tired of being tired” - Open Week comes at perfect time for MTSU Football to reset - Middle Tennessee State University Athletics

MEMPHIS, Tenn. — Derek Mason felt good about his team coming into Saturday against Memphis. The early weeks of the 2024 season that featured Middle Tennessee football

goblueraiders.com

He isn’t wrong, we just need to play some clean football.

 

[sWiley]

I just have to disagree. I don’t think we are that close. I think we have talent problems in key areas that will continue to manifest game after game. Piss poor secondary, no pressure from the DL (how many sacks do we have?), reactionary play calling on defense, a total inability to run the ball, only 2 good WR, unimaginative offense, losing the turnover battle every game, etc. many of these things are difficult to impossible to fix in the middle of a season, and I don’t think it happens.


I think this team is fighting at the bottom when the season ends with only around 1-2 more wins on the schedule. FIU, UTEP, Kennesaw possibly and they will lose one of those.

We may beat a few of the bottom feeders but this team gets beat when we play anyone with a pulse. We won’t have a W and maybe not even a competitive game against any team with a winning record this year.

Looking to the future I’m concerned. Recruiting class looks good but I’m not convinced anyone stays if they have a good year. And we are gonna need more than 1 good season out of a kid when we strike gold. That’s what used to make G5 like us good. Getting 4-5 years out of guys like Richie James, Kevin byard, reed Blankenship, Phillip Tanner, Benny Cunningham, etc. you get the idea

 

[AustinLewis]

As I've said elsewhere, it's not that MT lost; it's HOW MT lost. Sure, the 2024 schedule didn't help Mason & the MT FB team

So many of the issues MT has dealt with are self-inflicted. Fumbles (especially fumbles inside the 20). Dumb penalties. Execution. Secondary issues. Some of those can / should be fixed.

But some those issues are young guys being thrust into the lineup before they are ready. There's a reason starters are starters and backups are backups. And MT fans are seeing it play out in front of them.

But this year (IMO) was always about trying to get the ship turned around and heading in the right direction. Recruiting (so far) is solid. If Mason can land a couple of transfers, they'll be in a good spot.

 

[Shayne_Pickering]

As I've said elsewhere, it's not that MT lost; it's HOW MT lost. Sure, the 2024 schedule didn't help Mason & the MT FB team

So many of the issues MT has dealt with are self-inflicted. Fumbles (especially fumbles inside the 20). Dumb penalties. Execution. Secondary issues. Some of those can / should be fixed.

But some those issues are young guys being thrust into the lineup before they are ready. There's a reason starters are starters and backups are backups. And MT fans are seeing it play out in front of them.

But this year (IMO) was always about trying to get the ship turned around and heading in the right direction. Recruiting (so far) is solid. If Mason can land a couple of transfers, they'll be in a good spot.

Expect this staff to be active in certain spots of need in the portal

 

[MidTennMtneer]

Expect this staff to be active in certain spots of need in the portal

I've always said a G5 coach needs at least 2-3yrs. Good foundation or not. It used to be 4-5, but now with the portal that long isn't needed.

Year 1 try to get that you "think" you need. Use that season to learn.
Year 2, get what you "know" you need based on gameplay. Go bowling.
Year 3, plug the small holes and go win a championship.

 

[RaiderDoug]

I've always said a G5 coach needs at least 2-3yrs. Good foundation or not. It used to be 4-5, but now with the portal that long isn't needed.

Year 1 try to get that you "think" you need. Use that season to learn.
Year 2, get what you "know" you need based on gameplay. Go bowling.
Year 3, plug the small holes and go win a championship.

I think this is entirely reasonable. Especially in the portal era. Some G5's might be a little luckier than others with returning players - but now, as soon as you have a coaching change, your roster is going to be raided for any decent player you might have. That sucks, but it is what it is.

The portal isn't all bad, it's another way for your new coach to bring in more talent quicker. But it's one of those things where it might make the first year harder as you're going to lose more talent than you would have before, but the 2nd year a little easier as you can bring more in than just a 25 man recruiting class. Unfortunately, we're just in between those phases.

We don't have to like what we've seen so far, but we should understand it.

 

[AustinLewis]

I think this is entirely reasonable. Especially in the portal era. Some G5's might be a little luckier than others with returning players - but now, as soon as you have a coaching change, your roster is going to be raided for any decent player you might have. That sucks, but it is what it is.

The portal isn't all bad, it's another way for your new coach to bring in more talent quicker. But it's one of those things where it might make the first year harder as you're going to lose more talent than you would have before, but the 2nd year a little easier as you can bring more in than just a 25 man recruiting class. Unfortunately, we're just in between those phases.

We don't have to like what we've seen so far, but we should understand it.

In most cases, you need 3 years to see what a HC (just like @MidTennMtneer said).

Most G5s aren't getting 4-5 star guys. Most of HS singing class is 2-3 start, developmental guys. IOW, MT fans probably won't see the fruits of the 2024 class until 2025 & the fruits of the 2025 class until 2026. Additionally, it usually takes a year to put together a signing class. So the 1st signing class for any coach is usually the hardest to get a read on.

 

[Shayne_Pickering]

I've always said a G5 coach needs at least 2-3yrs. Good foundation or not. It used to be 4-5, but now with the portal that long isn't needed.

Year 1 try to get that you "think" you need. Use that season to learn.
Year 2, get what you "know" you need based on gameplay. Go bowling.
Year 3, plug the small holes and go win a championship.

I think you're on the right track in terms of staff mindset. Except I think they want to be a lot more competitive next year with this massive core of guys with one year left (Vattiato, entire WR core, Pierce potentially, Gillespie, Curtis, Myers, Raby, Howse IV, etc)

 

[Shayne_Pickering]

In most cases, you need 3 years to see what a HC (just like @MidTennMtneer said).

Most G5s aren't getting 4-5 star guys. Most of HS singing class is 2-3 start, developmental guys. IOW, MT fans probably won't see the fruits of the 2024 class until 2025 & the fruits of the 2025 class until 2026. Additionally, it usually takes a year to put together a signing class. So the 1st signing class for any coach is usually the hardest to get a read on.

I think next year they want to compete with the core veterans left over while adding in some portal talent at spots of need and then start stacking their guys they've brought in personally starting in that year 3. Have some pretty good freshmen and commits. Roman Gagliano has the chance to be one of the best G5 QBs without a doubt imo

 

[sWiley]

I've always said a G5 coach needs at least 2-3yrs. Good foundation or not. It used to be 4-5, but now with the portal that long isn't needed.

Year 1 try to get that you "think" you need. Use that season to learn.
Year 2, get what you "know" you need based on gameplay. Go bowling.
Year 3, plug the small holes and go win a championship.

I fixed it for you.

Year 1 all your good players leave via transfer portal, we try to replace them with inferior talent
Year 2 all your good players leave via transfer portal, we try to replace them with inferior talent
Year 3 all your good players leave via transfer portal, we try to replace them with inferior talent
Year 4 dont worry all your conference mates are getting pillaged too so its all good

 

[sWiley]

Roman Gagliano has the chance to be one of the best G5 QBs without a doubt imo

Mark my words: He will end his career wearing a P4 Jersey and a six figure payday

 

[MidTennMtneer]

Mark my words: He will end his career wearing a P4 Jersey and a six figure payday

So what if he does. That's my take.

As long as they win while wearing an MT jersey, I could care less if they graduate from here or anything. Call it buying a win, so what. When it happens enough, kids will want to come to us because they know they will be developed and get noticed. No matter how big the P2 get there will always be guys that slip through the cracks and need a G5 to break through.

My loyalty to MT is because I spent four years here and graduated. Absolutely. But I don't expect everyone else to have that same loyalty if they choose not to. And fans aren't going to care either. All they will look at is wins. That champ banner will be here long after any player is gone and no one will remember if they were here for one year or four. No one cares Cam Newton was at Auburn for one year. He won a champ. If we win a conf champ and half the team leaves, we still have that champ.

 

[sWiley]

All they will look at is wins.

You're making my point for me. You can't win when all your good and even decent players transfer out after every season.

And the argument that we shouldn't worry because our peers are screwed just as much doesn't fly with me. We used to stand a real chance in OOC games against lower P5 and upper G5 teams. I vividly remember beating up on Memphis, Southern Miss (when they were OOC), even Toledo and Bowling Green OOC wins who would pistol whip us now.

And then of course the Power 5 wins against Syracuse, Missouri, Maryland x2, Georgia Tech, Miami, Virginia (We won that game I don't care what anyone says, Dasher got that first down by a full yard I was sitting where the line to gain was and we would have kneeled it out after that. One million percent criminal outcome with that game and there should have been an FBI investigation)....

Now we will no longer be able to win those types of games because those teams are just going to take our good players after every season. Now the only thing we can look forward to is starting every season around 1-3 or 1-4, starting conference play and trying to win the worst conference in FBS + saying goodbye to all our good players after each season. What the F? What kind of existence is that?

 

[ewglenn]

Yall are depressing.

 

[sWiley]

Yall are depressing.

You're right. It is. I'll stop repeating myself in different ways every time I post. I just think the whole thing is rotten and it feels like our favorite past time has been hijacked and we arn't getting it back.

I would love to see the G5 find a way to be able to bridge the gap between it all, but as more money pours in I'm not sure how that would work. Maybe congress could step in and try to force some parity in some sort of way. I can't imagine the NCAA or P4 ever doing something like that, obviously, so it would have to be a fed up government stepping in.

I just struggle to see a future where a school like MT can succeed. Maybe I'm missing something ?

 

[RaiderDoug]

You're making my point for me. You can't win when all your good and even decent players transfer out after every season.

But how is this any different than what every other low budgeted G5 team will face.

College football always had turnover. The only difference now is that the window has accelerated - instead of 3-4 years, the turnover will be 2 years.

 

[blueraiderJT]

When we got a new coach, I knew it wasn't gonna be a 1 year turnaround. It's gonna take a few years for Mason to get his pieces in place. The portal can help but the mid state recruiting and the new facility will be what really build us into a decent program. Stock had players but his coaching staff SUCKED. Now we have the opposite problem when they all left. It just is what it is.

 

[sWiley]

But how is this any different than what every other low budgeted G5 team will face.

College football always had turnover. The only difference now is that the window has accelerated - instead of 3-4 years, the turnover will be 2 years.

I was trying to strike a more positive tone but since I gotta spell it out again here you go.

Yes Doug. We're all screwed. Don't worry, this phenomenon is not exclusive to just MTSU. Now, all broke bottom level G5 teams will be glorified JUCO's for the P4 and even upper G5 teams.

The days of MTSU whipping teams like Missouri, Georgia Tech, Maryland, Syracuse, etc. is over. Won't be possible when they take all our best players after each season. Think for a second about the teams that won those big games and had great seasons for us. They were full of juniors/seniors that were good players. Some really good players that went on to great NFL careers. All those kids won't be with us anymore as juniors and seniors. We won't have those older teams with talent. the Kevin Byards, Darius Harris', Richie James, etc. If these rules were in place 15 years ago imagine how many more losses we would have incurred over the years.

Hell, we can't even keep our OL/DL anymore either, much less our key skill guys. Two seasons ago our whole starting OL transferred out, then last season the whole DL left. That was in addition to some key skill guys we lost. You just cannot build a program with that kind of turmoil, as evidenced by our results recently.

Essentially, we will not be able to compete outside of CUSA/Bottom G5. We'll start every year 1-3 or 1-4 and go into the fall months trying to beat some of the worst teams in the country to barely make a bowl game, assuming the post-season structure stays as-is. Then after all that the transfer portal will open and all our best players will take cash offers to go play elsewhere. Rinse, repeat.

Sounds like fun, doesn't it?

 

[RaiderDoug]

I was trying to strike a more positive tone but since I gotta spell it out again here you go.

Yes Doug. We're all screwed. Don't worry, this phenomenon is not exclusive to just MTSU. Now, all broke bottom level G5 teams will be glorified JUCO's for the P4 and even upper G5 teams.

The days of MTSU whipping teams like Missouri, Georgia Tech, Maryland, Syracuse, etc. is over. Won't be possible when they take all our best players after each season. Think for a second about the teams that won those big games and had great seasons for us. They were full of juniors/seniors that were good players. Some really good players that went on to great NFL careers. All those kids won't be with us anymore as juniors and seniors. We won't have those older teams with talent. the Kevin Byards, Darius Harris', Richie James, etc. If these rules were in place 15 years ago imagine how many more losses we would have incurred over the years.

Hell, we can't even keep our OL/DL anymore either, much less our key skill guys. Two seasons ago our whole starting OL transferred out, then last season the whole DL left. That was in addition to some key skill guys we lost. You just cannot build a program with that kind of turmoil, as evidenced by our results recently.

Essentially, we will not be able to compete outside of CUSA/Bottom G5. We'll start every year 1-3 or 1-4 and go into the fall months trying to beat some of the worst teams in the country to barely make a bowl game, assuming the post-season structure stays as-is. Then after all that the transfer portal will open and all our best players will take cash offers to go play elsewhere. Rinse, repeat.

Sounds like fun, doesn't it?

My response to all this is "so what".

Who cares if players leave. They always left. I'm not sure I could name you 5 players off a team 4 years ago. It doesn't matter. Players will come, players will go, and new ones will replace them and they will make great plays in important games that we'll all cheer for. The rosters of all our competition will be in no worse shape. If our non-NFL bound only moderately talented guys are playing FIU's non-NFL bound only moderately talented guys for the CUSA title - i'm still watching.

Who cares if we don't compete outside of the G5/CUSA. All most of the G5 has been doing over the past 2 decades has all been an illusion anyway. There will be a competitive format for the 70 or so schools that were "left out". Like I said before, it's likely going to eventually be a middling division between FCS and the NFL-Lite that's coming. When it gets here, there's no reason we can't be competitive in it and have enjoyable seasons.

And frankly, I don't care if we are playing WKU on a Tuesday afternoon for a bronzed roll of toilet paper, I will watch and I will want us to win.

And next, none of this is personal, none of this is required. You can totally go find another hobby on a Saturday afternoon.

Maybe one of us wins the powerball and we can SMU our way into the B12. Short of that, I suggest we all either come to terms with the "new" college football, or go find something else to enjoy, because constantly complaining about something you cannot change will drive you insane.

 

[sWiley]

If you don't care about losing our ability to be competitive with some of the P5 and Upper G5 then I've got nothing for you. We have a completely different idea and viewpoint of what college athletics should be about.

Winning a conference championship is a great thing, but seeing where you stack up with programs that are generally regarded as "better" than you and who should be beating you is equally as enjoyable if not more enjoyable. Especially when you go on the road and whip them in front of their own fans, cash that $1.5 million check, and come home a winner despite being a 20+ point underdog.

We (along with the rest of the bottom of the G5) used to be able to rise up and beat these teams on occasion. When we had older junior/senior laden teams and a roster with some fringe NFL talent, we could go and win those games we were not supposed to win. You used to be able to look at a schedule and know we were gonna have a chance against teams like Missouri, Kentucky, Syracuse, Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt, etc. Now, they are guaranteed L's with the good possibility of us not even being competitive.

Now we are only allowed to compete within our conference. And our best players (that are a joy to watch for me personally) will leave after each season. I find it odd you don't seem to care. You think all players are created equally and someone else is just gonna come along and take a great players place? You didn't enjoy watching our better players like Richie James, Brent Stockstill, Jaylin Lane, Zaylin Wood, Kevin Byard, Darius Harris, Charvarious Ward, Marley Cook, Benny Cunningham, Anthony Amos, Malcolm Beyah (I could go on and on and on)....

Who took Jaylin Lane's place? Who took place of our whole OL that transferred out 2 years ago? Who took the place of our whole DL that left last year? Jakobe Thomas? Zaylin Wood? Sam Brumfield?

I don't want to be mean, but nobody replaced those guys. The losses we've endured because of the portal the last few years have been devastating. We have not even come close to replacing what we lost. It's a major net negative for programs like ours where we are forced to replace our best players with lesser talent. When you have to do that at multiple positions on both sides of the ball year after year....well...the results speak for themselves. 4-8 last year and gonna be like 3-9 this year. You can try and spin it however you want. "Our peers are just as screwed as us"....."A good coach will make the portal a positive"....all copium hogwash. The transfer portal is a devastating mechanism for programs like ours, period.

I would much rather watch and follow the NFL where there are strong forced parity mechanics and the richest owner can't just buy a championship (eat it, Jerry) and shit all over small market teams. I watch maybe 10% the amount of college athletics that I used to and every passing year it is less and less. The NBA and NFL is infinitely more appealing now that college athletics has been ruined. Well, ruined for schools like us. I'm sure the blue bloods of the world are loving life at the moment. Fun times.

 

[BRaiderDave]

Mark my words: He will end his career wearing a P4 Jersey and a six figure payday

Just my opinion, but Gagliano should be starting right now.

 

[Brew_Raider]

…Winning a conference championship is a great thing, but seeing where you stack up with programs that are generally regarded as "better" than you and who should be beating you is equally as enjoyable if not more enjoyable….

Completely disagree.

Go back to the defining success thread. Success at MT is competing for and winning conference titles while beating our rivals. It has nothing to do with playing P4 schools.

We went 33 years between games with schools in P4. We could never play another P4 school or get smoked by everyone we do play and be successful.

We are not a P4 school. NIL and transfers are legal. Our roster is going to turn over every 2 years instead of 4. I don’t like all the changes, but it is what it is. Constantly bemoaning things we can’t change is depressing. Try to find some enjoyment or hope in supporting MT.

 

[BigBlueBrad]

You're making my point for me. You can't win when all your good and even decent players transfer out after every season.

And the argument that we shouldn't worry because our peers are screwed just as much doesn't fly with me. We used to stand a real chance in OOC games against lower P5 and upper G5 teams. I vividly remember beating up on Memphis, Southern Miss (when they were OOC), even Toledo and Bowling Green OOC wins who would pistol whip us now.

And then of course the Power 5 wins against Syracuse, Missouri, Maryland x2, Georgia Tech, Miami, Virginia (We won that game I don't care what anyone says, Dasher got that first down by a full yard I was sitting where the line to gain was and we would have kneeled it out after that. One million percent criminal outcome with that game and there should have been an FBI investigation)....

Now we will no longer be able to win those types of games because those teams are just going to take our good players after every season. Now the only thing we can look forward to is starting every season around 1-3 or 1-4, starting conference play and trying to win the worst conference in FBS + saying goodbye to all our good players after each season. What the F? What kind of existence is that?

Then why are you still even watching? if I quit enjoying the TV series, I just quit watching it. I don’t continue watching it so I can complain about it.

 

[RaiderDoug]

If you don't care about losing our ability to be competitive with some of the P5 and Upper G5 then I've got nothing for you. We have a completely different idea and viewpoint of what college athletics should be about.

Winning a conference championship is a great thing, but seeing where you stack up with programs that are generally regarded as "better" than you and who should be beating you is equally as enjoyable if not more enjoyable. Especially when you go on the road and whip them in front of their own fans, cash that $1.5 million check, and come home a winner despite being a 20+ point underdog.

We (along with the rest of the bottom of the G5) used to be able to rise up and beat these teams on occasion. When we had older junior/senior laden teams and a roster with some fringe NFL talent, we could go and win those games we were not supposed to win. You used to be able to look at a schedule and know we were gonna have a chance against teams like Missouri, Kentucky, Syracuse, Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt, etc. Now, they are guaranteed L's with the good possibility of us not even being competitive.

Now we are only allowed to compete within our conference. And our best players (that are a joy to watch for me personally) will leave after each season. I find it odd you don't seem to care. You think all players are created equally and someone else is just gonna come along and take a great players place? You didn't enjoy watching our better players like Richie James, Brent Stockstill, Jaylin Lane, Zaylin Wood, Kevin Byard, Darius Harris, Charvarious Ward, Marley Cook, Benny Cunningham, Anthony Amos, Malcolm Beyah (I could go on and on and on)....

Who took Jaylin Lane's place? Who took place of our whole OL that transferred out 2 years ago? Who took the place of our whole DL that left last year? Jakobe Thomas? Zaylin Wood? Sam Brumfield?

I don't want to be mean, but nobody replaced those guys. The losses we've endured because of the portal the last few years have been devastating. We have not even come close to replacing what we lost. It's a major net negative for programs like ours where we are forced to replace our best players with lesser talent. When you have to do that at multiple positions on both sides of the ball year after year....well...the results speak for themselves. 4-8 last year and gonna be like 3-9 this year. You can try and spin it however you want. "Our peers are just as screwed as us"....."A good coach will make the portal a positive"....all copium hogwash. The transfer portal is a devastating mechanism for programs like ours, period.

I would much rather watch and follow the NFL where there are strong forced parity mechanics and the richest owner can't just buy a championship (eat it, Jerry) and shit all over small market teams. I watch maybe 10% the amount of college athletics that I used to and every passing year it is less and less. The NBA and NFL is infinitely more appealing now that college athletics has been ruined. Well, ruined for schools like us. I'm sure the blue bloods of the world are loving life at the moment. Fun times.

I skimmed over it and I find you 100% correct.

But here's the deal - you have to come to terms with this. This is the way it is. It's not going to change. It's not anyone's fault. It's the capitalistic food chain and we're a gold fish trying to swim with Great Whites. Far more successful programs who have done a heck of a lot more than us are going to find themselves just as screwed.

Let me make this completely clear - no one is saying you have to like this - but you do have to accept that it is not going to change.

If you would rather go watch the NFL - I don't blame you. Go right ahead. They play on Sundays (and Mondays and Thursdays and probably soon Saturdays and Fridays). Go on.

But you're still here, writing small novels about how much you hate it all.

That said, if you want to stay a fan - there's no reason we can't find a niche in order to be successful. It's important to remember, it's not just going to be us - it'll be us, App State, WKU, Memphis, Boston College, probably Vanderbilt, Boise, UAB and all of us who don't have 150 million dollar budgets - it might be a college football version of the Island of Misfit Toys, but we'll be there.

I still don't understand why you make the statement "You can't win when all your good and even decent players transfer out after every season." Every single team we're going to be competing with for conference titles, rankings, bowls, or maybe even a playoff spot of sorts will be facing the exact same challenges. There's no reason we can't keep our players, but FIU, WKU, Kennesaw somehow will field a roster of 4 year starters off to the NFL.