Right. And Billy/Ashley Madison seems to think McPhee's leadership had something to do with it. This is a case where it looks like McPhee did everything he could do except be a part of the three ring circus that is TN politics.
UNIVERSITY NEWS No law school.
- Thread starter MTOleBlue
- Start date
And McPhee is, obviously, right.
I mean come on, when you are letting your competition determine your fate, the outcome is going to be predictable.
I mean come on, when you are letting your competition determine your fate, the outcome is going to be predictable.
So this is it? Any other way around the THEC?
Could we not start the traditional way to start a Law school?
Could we not start the traditional way to start a Law school?
Why do we need a board if we cannot approve anything. Sounds like THEC wanted MT to know who is boss. Complete BS letting lawyers from the competition have a say. Not to mention a student from a competing school have a vote. I say buy it anyway and appeal to the GOV. GO BLUE.
Haslam (the current governor) is a big UT fan, so he may have has some say in influencing it. However, we will have a new governor soon Bill Lee. I have no idea where his allegiances lie if he has any at all. I wonder if we could appeal to him? I wonder how long the opportunity will be there with Valparaiso?
Two of the no votes were by:
Two of the no votes were by:
- Secretary of State Tre Hargett
- State Comptroller Justin P. Wilson
Read this it will piss you off even more!
https://www.dnj.com/story/news/loca...no-value-tennessee-memphis-oppose/1673571002/
What a bogus study!
https://www.dnj.com/story/news/loca...no-value-tennessee-memphis-oppose/1673571002/
What a bogus study!
Two of the no votes were by:
These two votes are the most powerful. Secretary of State charters corporation filings and business entities and the Comptroller is chief state auditor and in charge of government appropriations. There is tremendous power within these two votes. So close and yet miles away!
No telling what it would cost to start a brand new law school; not sure if we have enough endowment money to start and to sustain for its formative years in pro forma revenue/expenses. Endowment money is our big roadblock in academics or athletics. Schools like Rice and Vanderbilt have multiple billions, while we operate in a world of maybe $135 million, if we scrape up “loose change in sofa cushions.” Let’s face it, MT is among the impoverished in the world of the Ivy Leagues and the big Land Grant institutions of the East and Midwest, who would be our competitors.
Giving and alumni engagement has to change over the next 15 years for us to make a ripple where we need to be. So many lost opportunities and the hits keep a comin’.
- Secretary of State Tre Hargett
- State Comptroller Justin P. Wilson
These two votes are the most powerful. Secretary of State charters corporation filings and business entities and the Comptroller is chief state auditor and in charge of government appropriations. There is tremendous power within these two votes. So close and yet miles away!
No telling what it would cost to start a brand new law school; not sure if we have enough endowment money to start and to sustain for its formative years in pro forma revenue/expenses. Endowment money is our big roadblock in academics or athletics. Schools like Rice and Vanderbilt have multiple billions, while we operate in a world of maybe $135 million, if we scrape up “loose change in sofa cushions.” Let’s face it, MT is among the impoverished in the world of the Ivy Leagues and the big Land Grant institutions of the East and Midwest, who would be our competitors.
Giving and alumni engagement has to change over the next 15 years for us to make a ripple where we need to be. So many lost opportunities and the hits keep a comin’.
@RaiderDawg78, my post wasn't a defense of the system. My post was a defense of the character of two men. You may not agree with how they voted, but there should be no doubt they came to their positions on what they perceived as the merits.
@JohnDavidBlue, Sidney McPhee is a joke. He's going to blame "politics" now, but the fact is he no credibility with anyone in state government and him QBing the effort was always going to make it an uphill battle. He should have been fired 15 years ago after the "seven wood" incident, but a newly-elected Phil Bredesen didn't want to offend his political base by firing a black man from a position of authority.
@TrueBlue147, screwing MTSU isn't even on Bill Haslam's radar. It was his FOCUS Act that created the opportunity for MTSU to have its own governing board anyway. He's probably going to be the next permanent president of UT following an interim stint by Randy Boyd, but I can assure you that UT doesn't see MTSU as an academic threat.
Bill Lee is an Auburn alumnus. Hargett and Wilson aren't appointed to their respective posts by the governor, though. The state legislature elects them.
but there should be no doubt they came to their positions on what they perceived as the merits.
Why should there be no doubt? They're human aren't they? Subject to bias, corruption, personal gain etc.. Did you even read that ridiculous study posted in the dnj?
screwing MTSU isn't even on Bill Haslam's radar. It was his FOCUS Act that created the opportunity for MTSU to have its own governing board anyway. He's probably going to be the next permanent president of UT following an interim stint by Randy Boyd, but I can assure you that UT doesn't see MTSU as an academic threat.
The FOCUS Act sure did a lot for us didn't? We still have other schools deciding what programs we can have and what we can't.
UT doesn't see MT as an academic threat? Yeah because Middle Tennessee students that wanted to stay home to go to an accredited public law school wouldn't affect UT at all would it?
Article from the Murfreesboro Post
https://www.murfreesboropost.com/co...cle_9efaab4e-d638-11e8-be6f-b7d6e75bcb48.html
"Rutherford County Mayor Bill Ketron, a former state senator, said he is checking with local legislators about the possibility of them filing a bill in January to overrule THEC. If the measure passes, it would happen in the spring. The question is whether Valparaiso would wait that long.
“Or it may not pass,” said Ketron, an MTSU alumnus. “They may play politics.”
Another factor is the Nov. 6 elections and changes in the makeup of the Tennessee General Assembly, he said.
Ketron, who attended the THEC meeting, called its decision a “strictly political vote” and “hack job.” He said the University of Memphis and the University of Tennessee at Knoxville are against anything happening in Middle Tennessee"
https://www.murfreesboropost.com/co...cle_9efaab4e-d638-11e8-be6f-b7d6e75bcb48.html
"Rutherford County Mayor Bill Ketron, a former state senator, said he is checking with local legislators about the possibility of them filing a bill in January to overrule THEC. If the measure passes, it would happen in the spring. The question is whether Valparaiso would wait that long.
“Or it may not pass,” said Ketron, an MTSU alumnus. “They may play politics.”
Another factor is the Nov. 6 elections and changes in the makeup of the Tennessee General Assembly, he said.
Ketron, who attended the THEC meeting, called its decision a “strictly political vote” and “hack job.” He said the University of Memphis and the University of Tennessee at Knoxville are against anything happening in Middle Tennessee"
I am pretty sure most of our area representatives, regardless of political leanings, would support a bill to override the THEC decision. The challenge would be peeling off enough support from other regions.
You seem to be certain on the character of the two men you defended, as for Haslam the only connection to MT that he's ever had that I've seen was to make the perfunctory visit to sit with McPhee at a BkB game when he was running for governor and I doubt he has feelings for MT one way or the other, as for Bredesen influencing the BoR to keep McPhee for political purposes you may be correct (the state does need at least one minority college president for appearances).
Regardless, I certainly agree with your opinion of McPhee. After the "seven wood" incident, mental episode (?), and night in the Marion Co. jail he should have been gently shown the door. I have no idea why he was hired in the first place except the powers that be felt they needed to replace Walker (a really good man and president IMHO) with another ethnic. I don't doubt your opinion that McPhee has no credibility with those in state government or additionally, in higher education state-wide.
I really am not close enough to the school and TN state politics to know what kind of job McPhee has done. I don't think he had anything to do one way or the other to affect the growth during his tenure. As for being able to play politics well enough to garner support for MT beyond what is minimally required I have my doubts. I do know that he loves the limelight (along with "First Lady" Liz) which gives him the appearance of supporting athletics and he does enjoy those foreign trips.
UT doesn't see MT as an academic threat
I'm sure they don't, the fix is in at the highest levels in Nashville to make sure UT doesn't have to compete with MT just like with this law school. Obviously, UT's primacy for huge funding and sole public univ in TN to be accepted as a top level research institution would keep other state schools in TN from competing academically with UT.
I also gathered that UT folks in Nashville were some of the folks opposed to MT changing it's name back when Pres Walker pushed for it.
I'm sure they don't, the fix is in at the highest levels in Nashville to make sure UT doesn't have to compete with MT just like with this law school. Obviously, UT's primacy for huge funding and sole public univ in TN to be accepted as a top level research institution would keep other state schools in TN from competing academically with UT.
I also gathered that UT folks in Nashville were some of the folks opposed to MT changing it's name back when Pres Walker pushed for it.
Don't get me wrong. It hasn't held me back. I have a good career with a six figure salary, but it's not because of MT. I do wonder what I might have been missing though because it hasn't exactly opened any doors for me. I've done it on my own. And how much more have I benefitted from an undergrad degree from UT than I have a masters from MT? That's hard to say/quantify. There isn't a network to speak of outside of the mid-state that other alumni can draw from. Few end up in high level C-suite positions that can help bring others along. An MT degree provides you with the bare minimum working class degree that is required by companies that set bachelors degrees as a minimum pre-requisite.
And what just happened with this vote at THEC tells you why. This isn't a new phenomenon. This has been going on for decades. It's not the university's fault. It's the state's fault.
I could read this thread from and outsider and see the political overtones on this decision. Random people bringing in leadership into question all the while failing to give a sensible answer other than "I trust their judgement".
I am not going to put down my diploma as I do very well for myself. However, I am a grinder and I give my own self credit in my success. My diploma may have gotten me in the door but I have had to produce. I've worked alongside Ivy league school graduates all the way to people with no degree. In my field, you produce or you don't last.
Anyhow, I am all about reducing redundancy in programs. If we have too many unfilled seats in classrooms at a specific University then healthy auditing of schedules should eliminate and combine. If in fact, we have too many law schools, then maybe they should shut down Memphis or UTK. The way that they make it sound is they are not finding work or placement. Well, by their logic, shut down another public school and combine.
The fact of the matter is - MT is strategically placed next to one of the most vibrant cities in America and would be an excellent destination for potential law students based on geography and accreditation alone. The naysayers are blocking competition as if they are the law cartel of Tennessee.
I am not going to put down my diploma as I do very well for myself. However, I am a grinder and I give my own self credit in my success. My diploma may have gotten me in the door but I have had to produce. I've worked alongside Ivy league school graduates all the way to people with no degree. In my field, you produce or you don't last.
Anyhow, I am all about reducing redundancy in programs. If we have too many unfilled seats in classrooms at a specific University then healthy auditing of schedules should eliminate and combine. If in fact, we have too many law schools, then maybe they should shut down Memphis or UTK. The way that they make it sound is they are not finding work or placement. Well, by their logic, shut down another public school and combine.
The fact of the matter is - MT is strategically placed next to one of the most vibrant cities in America and would be an excellent destination for potential law students based on geography and accreditation alone. The naysayers are blocking competition as if they are the law cartel of Tennessee.
https://scotblog.org/2018/10/mtsu-w...-higher-education-commissions-decision-legal/
...In 2002, the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit held for the first time that “protecting a discrete interest group from economic competition is not a legitimate governmental purpose” and violates the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.[1] As far as state law is concerned, the Tennessee Supreme Court has long held that protectionism is also forbidden by the Tennessee Constitution. In the 1956 case Consumers Gasoline Stations v. City of Pulaski, for instance, the Tennessee Supreme Court held that “[a]lthough [a] city may have the right to regulate [a] business, it does not have the right to exclude certain persons from engaging in the business while allowing others to do so.”[2] A wealth of additional state precedent spanning more than a century supports this premise as well.[3].....
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Mcphee and our board should defiantly appeal the decision and sue if need be. Eventually MT needs to stand up for itself and stop the abuse its been taking for years from politicians and bureaucrats in the state.
If McPhee "took a swing" at legal action, I have have him sign my diploma a second time. I also would like to tell some Memphis and UTK grads, who defended the decision on twitter, to "suck it".
This is sad and unnecessary. The THEC should be ashamed of themselves. Sadly, I have seen this type of decision making many times in TN from various boards like this, specifically in education and healthcare. They are ALWAYS political, they ALWAYS protect the status quo.
