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UNIVERSITY NEWS No law school.

That’s bull. So that is officially the end of it or is there more than can be done to persuade a change of heart?
 
This is really getting old. The State out of Nashville continue to keep MT down.

I suspect if us alumni don't organize and get active in advocating for MT with policy makers, MT will continue to languish in mediocrity. Gotta grease the pols with $$$ to get anywhere. It's sad, but giving money to politicians is nearly the only way to get anything done. To MT's credit, it seems like McPhee and the new board did what they should have done. This is on THEC and Nashville....and politics. It's still recent news so I haven't been able to find a list of who voted for what.
 
It amazes me how the largest undergrad university in the state has, quite literally, the worst political representation and lobbying efforts I've ever seen.

I'm surprised we got the funding and got the science building completed to be honest. Blind squirrel finds a nut on occasion I suppose.
 
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And the hits just keep on a comin'.

Folks, there are just too many forces holding back MT, keeping the school, its' academics, its' athletics, and its' image "little" middle. Damn hard to beat city hall.
 
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Yep, bout ready to throw in the towel. Tired of fighting for this place. Really starting to wish I would have went somewhere else for my graduate degree.
 
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Yep, bout ready to throw in the towel. Tired of fighting for this place. Really starting to wish I would have went somewhere else for my graduate degree.

It's days like this that I start to 2nd guess or think all them years ago maybe I should have pursued other avenues of higher education. I know it really doesn't matter now as one can't go back and change past events. I just never imagined in my early days of choosing MT that the state would be one of the main forces holding the university back.

I almost hate to admit this here, but here it is: When I first came to MT, MT was Nashville's main public university that most people attended. Given the close proximity, I figured I would start at MT a couple of semesters and transfer elsewhere to finish undergrad. Funny thing happened in that short time, I started to really like MT, Murfreesboro, and the still close proximity to Nashville. Additionally, James Walker was the President at the time. MT was growing, and Pres Walker had lots of vision with plenty going on in the university. It was also when Pres Walker was pushing for MT to go 1A and get a name change for the university. I decided to stay. MT had so much going for it with an excellent leader and plenty of good people around. When I decided to stay, I figured a willing leader with vision and such dramatic growth were the difficult elements. For a fast growing Nashville Metro area and Middle Tennessee, I figured the State powers in Nashville would be glad to approve the growth and improvements to MT. Apparently, I wrongly figured the state leaders would gladly promote or accept a dynamic growing public institution of higher ed to pursue excellence and then even regional prominence and national recognition. Heck, the people of the region seemed to favor MT by such fantastic growth in enrollment.

Sadly, today's news seems to be further damning evidence that the State which has ultimate authority over MT simply will not allow MT to realize all it's potential. This constraint is unbelievable in that a growing dynamic excellent public university could be an economic powerhouse for the entire area. Indefensibly, the state has limited MT's economic impact to the area to that of only a fraction of what it could be.

Just as sad, so much of the resistance in the state to MT's growth and improvement has been from some other large state schools who fear competition and possibly having to share prestige and resources. In a way, it almost seems like the Grand Divisions of the state from it's inception has sort of contributed to stifling growth across the whole state. More accurately, it seems the people of the state may have used the Three Grand Divisions to suppress the other competing regions of the state. Or another way, bad politics yields bad results.

Sorry about the long rant folks. This is a rotten deal that has long lasting implications for the university that is both frustrating and disheartening.
 
Yep, bout ready to throw in the towel. Tired of fighting for this place. Really starting to wish I would have went somewhere else for my graduate degree.
I'm already there. I have a stepdaughter in her freshman year at Auburn and I am so jealous of her. Not just because of their athletics. It's because of everything Auburn is providing for her education. Fantastic faculty, academic support, great facilities. It's really very different from Middle Tennessee. Just being completely honest here. If you consider me a traitor, so be it. It is what it is.
 
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I won't let my kids go to college in this state. I've already made that decision. This place has routinely put politics ahead of education. Sorry. Not for me. If they don't end up at an Ivy League school maybe some place like the Univ of Florida, UVA or in a state where they actually let higher education be what it's supposed to be. The state of Tennessee is such a joke in this area.
 
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I won't let my kids go to college in this state. I've already made that decision. This place has routinely put politics ahead of education. Sorry. Not for me. If they don't end up at an Ivy League school maybe some place like the Univ of Florida, UVA or in a state where they actually let higher education be what it's supposed to be. The state of Tennessee is such a joke in this area.
Completely agree.
 
I am upset MTSU is not getting a Law School because I would consider attending. What I do not get is everyone saying they wish they hadn't gone to MTSU however many years ago because of this. Not having a Law School has ZERO impact on the quality of the education in other majors/programs. Would it boost the "prestige" of the university? It might, but probably not really. Memphis has a law school and I do not consider them more prestigious. Law schools are so prevalent now that it does not have as much of an impact on prestige as it used to. What it would have done is open up Law school to students who could not move to Knoxville or Memphis and did not want to pay Vandy or Belmont prices.
 
FYI the student member of the THEC goes to none other than UT-Knoxville. They have a vote also.
 
Negative comments about MTSU are misplaced. We have a fine University that has done a wonderful job of advancing the cause of education. No Law School; okay then - move on. Take a look at the forecast for jobs in the legal profession of the future with AI coming on strong. Somewhat bleak. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise. MTSU needs to remain progressive in their advancement of higher education. MTSU has good leadership, an increasing number of supportive alumni and a bright future. We live in a state dominated by rotten politics, but MTSU is a beacon of hope. The negativity toward MTSU on this thread is not in the least bit welcomed by those of us that fully support our fine University.
 
Negative comments about MTSU are misplaced. We have a fine University that has done a wonderful job of advancing the cause of education. No Law School; okay then - move on. Take a look at the forecast for jobs in the legal profession of the future with AI coming on strong. Somewhat bleak. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise. MTSU needs to remain progressive in their advancement of higher education. MTSU has good leadership, an increasing number of supportive alumni and a bright future. We live in a state dominated by rotten politics, but MTSU is a beacon of hope. The negativity toward MTSU on this thread is not in the least bit welcomed by those of us that fully support our fine University.
Whatever.
 
Negative comments about MTSU are misplaced. We have a fine University that has done a wonderful job of advancing the cause of education. No Law School; okay then - move on. Take a look at the forecast for jobs in the legal profession of the future with AI coming on strong. Somewhat bleak. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise. MTSU needs to remain progressive in their advancement of higher education. MTSU has good leadership, an increasing number of supportive alumni and a bright future. We live in a state dominated by rotten politics, but MTSU is a beacon of hope. The negativity toward MTSU on this thread is not in the least bit welcomed by those of us that fully support our fine University.

Im very disappointed, but this is an insightful post. You are right, AI is said to cut deeply into the future of the lower rung lawyers as much of the nature of the business is repetitive to the lower associates. I value my degree from MT greatly and the anger here should be pointed at THEC, not MT. MT did everything they could to make this happen, it seems.
 
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MTSU has good leadership.....

Remove that statement & I can agree with everything else you said.

MT was a fantastic experience. My only regrets are not being a focused student during my time there and not living on campus for 4 years. MT prepared a slacker student better than he deserved for grad school and the 40 year old is very thankful for that.
 
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Negative comments about MTSU are misplaced. We have a fine University that has done a wonderful job of advancing the cause of education. No Law School; okay then - move on. Take a look at the forecast for jobs in the legal profession of the future with AI coming on strong. Somewhat bleak. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise. MTSU needs to remain progressive in their advancement of higher education. MTSU has good leadership, an increasing number of supportive alumni and a bright future. We live in a state dominated by rotten politics, but MTSU is a beacon of hope. The negativity toward MTSU on this thread is not in the least bit welcomed by those of us that fully support our fine University.

Middle Tennessee State University has historically been the university of "individual opportunity" and has done so much with very little, relative to others in the TBR System, UT, or our peer institutions in the Southeast. I'm not going to give a blanket "okay then--move on" without being heard about the larger issue at hand: are we really a institution of individual opportunity that has terminal degree programs in professions perceived at the highest society value at least in our home state of Tennessee? That's highly questionable now. We have no programs for law, medicine, pharmacy, dentistry, veterinarian, full-scale engineering (we do have elements of such), or religion (though we do have a few courses in political science and psychology that may qualify). The point is THEC's attitude toward MT is such that we are primarily focused as a four year undergraduate institution versus focusing on being a terminal degree and research institution. Sure MT has several PhD programs in our course catalog, but in almost all cases they do not have academic standing nor national reputation a Notre Dame, Michigan, Syracuse, Ohio State, North Carolina, Alabama, or Tennessee. This translates into starting salaries, career advancement and professional opportunities, and ultimately university gifts that filter to academia and on the athletic court or field. Academic disciplines are the engine that foster the university culture through enrollment and attracting the best and brightest: doesn't matter if we are talking about Martin Methodist in Pulaski, Tennessee or Florida Atlantic University in Boca Raton...they are competing with scholarships, awards, and programs that further careers. Effectively, our instituional mission got changed yesterday and that is BIG!

Marshall, ETSU, and Louisiana Monroe have medical schools: I can understand if this denial were medicine, due to Vanderbilt and Meharry Medical College being nearby and the sheer resources required to have a program and teaching hospital arrangement. But a Law School under these circumstances? It's much harder to understand even with Belmont and Vanderbilt being private and 30 miles away. Our mission is to serve the public good and too many leaders in this state and nation has forgotten what that really represents for main street. Middle Tennessee State University is a outstanding university because of the thousands of people who matriculate, teach, and work to make it a good place everyday. There are a few who work and lead that I would question abilities and intent, but MTSU is nevertheless a fine place and will always be my favorite university. However, special interest was served in the THEC's 8-5 denial decision yesterday. It's the Lucy and Charlie Brown story of kicking the football...take 35.
 
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Wow, some of you people crack me up. All of the sudden now you are ashamed that you got your degree here or went here? Really? Ha ha That's pretty funny. I only got my Masters degree here, but I love this University and 99% of the people here. It is a great environment and we are lucky to have faculty & staff who love what they do and love working with students and to help assist with their future.
I don't have kids so I don't care where you all send yours', but to not consider MTSU is just plain silly. It's a terrific University.
Excuses...always excuses from people. Instead of looking at ways to improve our standing everyone jumps ship. See ya! Have fun dressing your kids in that ridiculous orange or whatever. ;):cool:
 
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https://www.bizjournals.com/nashvil...sion-rejects-mtsu-s-plans-for-law-school.html

"The commission looked at these criteria, among others, in making the decision: Alignment with state master plan and institutional mission, sustainable demand, program costs and revenue and no unnecessary duplication. The commission also solicited comments from expert legal reviewers.Based on comments and these criteria, the commission denied MTSU’s proposal. The biggest critics of the transfer came from lawyers and law schools in Memphis and Knoxville, where the state’s only other public law schools are located. Comments generally regarded concerns of a watered down law school market for the state, since Nashville is already home to three law schools — Belmont University, Vanderbilt University and Nashville School of Law. Another school in the city, many said, would take away from other schools’ ability to compete, even if it’s a public option."

The THEC is so corrupt. Taking the recommendation of the lawyers and law schools from Memphis and UT!!? Of course they are going to not recommend us getting a law school. Also, who cares if there are two private law schools in Nashville (Belmont and Vanderbilt)? That has nothing to do with the need of a public accredited law school in Middle Tennessee. They should not be concerned with how it effects these schools programs only with what is best for the tax payers/citizens. We were given a law school at essentially. What would it hurt to let us try? Let the free market decide. If it fails so be it, but I doubt it would. It would end up taking students away from all of the other schools and that is the real reason they don't want it. These corrupt members did a disservice to the citizens/taxpayers of Middle Tennessee denying them a local affordable law school in order to protect their interest in the other schools.
 
IMO, this puts MT back to square one and trying to acquire Nashville School of Law. It is still unaffiliated with any other university, correct? I'm guessing that TSU has moved on since they failed to acquire the law school.
 
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What an unfortunate turn of events.

If I were MT, I would focus on what it does have. Integrate Computer Science with Agriculture for a degree program in artificial intelligence and neural networks in animal and crop control.

Aerospace has a lot of potential. Why not bring in Space and rocketry to that department.

We will always have the liberal arts degrees and business students but with the new science building, we can always do better with what we have.
 
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Yes, thats a good idea and would help get future alum good paying, modern jobs. Manufacturing! Agriculture! Mining!
 
I will tell you why I regret my decision. This state values politics and corruption over higher education. As a result the value of my degree (as I don't live in Tennessee) particularly in Washington where lawyers who went to prestigious university's are a dime a dozen makes what I do have almost worthless. Nashville is as corrupt as it comes and people entrusted to run the state are ruining it except for a handful of privileged who receive their privilege based almost exclusively on corrupt politics.

Like I said with my kids - if I had it to do over again MT is not where I would have attended even though the Boro is home. I had a lot more options but I came back home. It's too bad I didn't understand at the time what a joke Tenn is with respect education.
 
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I will tell you why I regret my decision. This state values politics and corruption over higher education. As a result the value of my degree (as I don't live in Tennessee) particularly in Washington where lawyers who went to prestigious university's are a dime a dozen makes what I do have almost worthless. Nashville is as corrupt as it comes and people entrusted to run the state are ruining it except for a handful of privileged who receive their privilege based almost exclusively on corrupt politics.

Like I said with my kids - if I had it to do over again MT is not where I would have attended even though the Boro is home. I had a lot more options but I came back home. It's too bad I didn't understand at the time what a joke Tenn is with respect education.

I am sorry...I sit an an executive leadership team of a growing, thriving software company...my degree hasn't held me back in way, shape or form. On our team, are folks from Notre Dame, Harvard, UVA, Georgetown...I find it funny that I make as much or more than them.

What MT really lacks are alumni that give a shit. People use MT and then give nothing to little back. We don't have a law school because aside from a few we have crappy alumni. If more cared, MT could not be stopped.
 
I am sorry...I sit an an executive leadership team of a growing, thriving software company...my degree hasn't held me back in way, shape or form. On our team, are folks from Notre Dame, Harvard, UVA, Georgetown...I find it funny that I make as much or more than them.

What MT really lacks are alumni that give a shit. People use MT and then give nothing to little back. We don't have a law school because aside from a few we have crappy alumni. If more cared, MT could not be stopped.

This is my first time posting here but I'm a long time reader of the boards. This post could not be more true. What people forget or don't realize is how well some of the other professions that MTSU offers end up being very good paying jobs. I'm currently a Captain at a regional airline and make very good money. There are hundreds of pilots just like me out there making a living just as good or better than doctors and lawyers. Having alumni with money isn't the problem its the disconnect between those alumni with money and who they pledge their allegiance to. I am proud to say MTSU is my school and proudly support it. So many other aerospace alumni that I meet follow SEC schools and could care less about MT athletics and furthering of academics. MTSU was merely a means to a job in aviation.
 
Can we see which 8 voted against it? I can't find any information on their website?

Roach, Stafford, Wharton, Koban, Watson, Hargett, Wilson and Sulyok.

While you might not agree with their votes, Hargett and Wilson are good people who would have made their conclusions based upon the merits. Regardless, to have this snatched away says more about McPhee's leadership (or lack thereof) and that's where ire from MTSU faithful should be directed.
 
I've been watching this discussion as I did in previous threads on obtaining this law school without comment IIRC. I would like to make the following comments, questions, and observations for your consideration.

I am assuming that since we now have our own Board we no longer have to go through BoR for approval and directly to the THEC. If incorrect please explain.

While I personally would like to see MT obtain any program which can enhance the university this loss (or approval, had it happened) does very little to change the perception of MT. Can any of you say that your perception of ETSU has measurably changed with the addition of Quillan College of Medicine? I didn't think so.

As a taxpayer I understand the need to limit duplication of programs at publicly supported schools, especially at the graduate/professional level.

Location, Location, Location: MT is unfortunately located in the grand division of the state which has 4 publicly supported universities. Additionally, M'Boro is in an adjoining county 45 minutes from the state capitol and "The Athens of the South", home to a half-dozen+ colleges and universities. Each of these other schools has their own set of allies who, perhaps even unintentionally, hold MT back. And let's not diminish the state-wide impact of the school in Knoxville.

There is a hierarchy of colleges and universities in The United States. With some obvious overlap while eliminating finer distinctions it goes: Elite private schools; Flagship Public schools, Regional private schools, Regional public schools. MT is a regional public institution. It is what it is and I don't see that changing anytime soon, regardless of degrees offered or success in athletic endeavors.

I wish I had bookmarked an article I read several years back which discussed the changing face of college education. Two interconnected things I vividly remember: First is that emphasis is shifting from producing educated individuals with job preparation secondary to job preparation becoming primary. No longer was a cultured, refined, and educated citizenry the primary purpose of a college education. This is evident with the move to fewer hours required for graduation with the cuts removing many general education and humanities courses from the requirements. As an aside: I have always felt somewhat "less educated" in that I didn't have to take a foreign language or a philosophy course for my undergraduate degree at MT.
The second remembrance from the article was that "elite" schools and their graduates were beginning to see other colleges as a source of middle managers, support personnel, teachers, other public servants (law enforcement, social workers, etc.) and graduates from non-elite schools were not their competition at the top of the "food chain". IMHO this belief is accentuated when a school adds construction mgt., concete mgt. or fermentation science to it's list of majors. Can't imagine such majors at an ivy-league school. As graduates of a regional state-supported university we may receive an equal or even better education than graduates from an "elite" school but we will always be seen as "less-than" by many. Another aside: This has accelerated in my lifetime since when I went to MT (back in the dark ages) anyone who graduated from college felt he was at least close to being among the elites since so few mid-staters were college graduates.
 
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Who voted No for the law school.

https://www.dnj.com/story/news/2018...-thec-nashville-memphis-knoxville/1659112002/

Votes to approve transfer:

  • Evan Cope of Murfreesboro
  • Dr. Nancy Gishner of Johnson City
  • Dakasha Winton of Chattanooga
  • Jimmy Johnson of Gallatin
  • State Treasurer David H. Lilliard, Jr.
Votes to deny transfer:

  • Mintha Roach of Knoxville
  • Vernon Stafford, Jr. of Memphis
  • Former Shelby County mayor AC Wharton, Jr. of Memphis
  • Pam Koban of Nashville
  • Frank L. Watson, Jr. of Memphis
  • Secretary of State Tre Hargett
  • State Comptroller Justin P. Wilson
  • Cara Sulyok, a student board member enrolled at the University of Tennessee-Knoxville
 
Roach, Stafford, Wharton, Koban, Watson, Hargett, Wilson and Sulyok.

While you might not agree with their votes, Hargett and Wilson are good people who would have made their conclusions based upon the merits. Regardless, to have this snatched away says more about McPhee's leadership (or lack thereof) and that's where ire from MTSU faithful should be directed.[/lQUOTE]

So a Vanderbilt lawyer, a Memphis grad, a UTK student, 2 UTK grad/boosters, a UTK booster, a TSU grad, & a Memphis lawyer/member of the Vandy alumni group get to tell MT what degrees they can’t offer....seems legit.
 
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