FOOTBALL Middle Tennessee (4-5, 1-4) vs Charlotte (2-8, 1-5), ESPN+, 2:30PM, Saturday, November 12, 2022

Hop45

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Jul 27, 2005
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I was in Knoxville yesterday in a cold, wet stadium with 95,000+ other folks. Competitive, winning football overpowers all the other factors. Boring, mediocre, .500 year in/year out does nothing to excite a fan base.
My son is going to UT next year, so got tix for his bday. My 4th game at Neyland. 2 of those were vs MT. I did not attend MT like many of you, but I have been going to MT football games since moving here in 1995. I used to be tailgating at 8 AM for a 6:00 kickoff. Apathy has set in for me and a majority of the Blue Raider fan base. Nobody is even angry any more. Angry is good. That means the fan base still cares. Apathy is a program killer.
 

zreed

Blue Raider
Oct 9, 2018
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I can remember some games in the last few years of Andy Mac(early undergrad for me) looking around the stadium being embarrassed. The 2005 Arkansas State game comes to mind. Watched Clint Marks air it out(only 208 total, but a full half of that came on three passes) from the sky box and thinking the announced 9,952 might have been a little generous

I can remember in the early days of Stock thinking we'd never go back to that, hard to believe how much worse it is now.
 

FranklinRaider315

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Jun 24, 2009
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I can remember some games in the last few years of Andy Mac(early undergrad for me) looking around the stadium being embarrassed. The 2005 Arkansas State game comes to mind. Watched Clint Marks air it out(only 208 total, but a full half of that came on three passes) from the sky box and thinking the announced 9,952 might have been a little generous

I can remember in the early days of Stock thinking we'd never go back to that, hard to believe how much worse it is now.
Yesterday’s TV camera shots were as bad as I’ve ever seen it.
 

MidTennMtneer

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I've seen some say that players don't care how many they play in front of.

But you can't tell me that a player is gonna be ok with yesterday compared to Texas and TCU. Yeah P5 ranked etc but you see my point. That energy matters. Players feed off of it.
 

Predarat

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Seeing the crowd shots on Twitter, were there even 10 fans in the upper deck Student/Steel side? Looks almost empty. Not many in the lower part either.
 
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AustinLewis

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Sep 16, 2006
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I've seen some say that players don't care how many they play in front of.

But you can't tell me that a player is gonna be ok with yesterday compared to Texas and TCU. Yeah P5 ranked etc but you see my point. That energy matters. Players feed off of it.
I've heard this from multiple former players.

The crowd - or lack thereof - will bite MT in the tail on the recruiting trail.

But I also understand WHY fans aren't showing up.

As I told my wife, watching UTK is fun. It's exciting. Watching MT (for the most part) isn't fun. It isn't exciting.
 

blueboro007

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Dec 8, 2006
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Just hope all of you complaining about attendance were there as I was. If you were not, why complain?
 

MT Glenn

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Just hope all of you complaining about attendance were there as I was. If you were not, why complain?
Fran Healy Reaction GIF by Travis
 
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MidTennMtneer

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Just hope all of you complaining about attendance were there as I was. If you were not, why complain?
I'll bite.

I absolutely will complain. I live 6 hours away and of course can't make it to every game. I always make one a year at least, and will be there for FAU.

But even factoring in those like me that are too far away to make every game easily..
There are for 2021
157k in Murfreesboro
352k in Rutherford County
Almost 2 million in Metro Nashville

There is zero, none, nada reason for there to not be 20k+ there every game, except for the product on the field. Heck there are 17k students. Get half those and 15k of the general public and no one would complain over attendance.

But they aren't coming because of the results on the field.
 

MT Glenn

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You're right...I DON"T get the point of complaining if you can come but choose not to.
The point is, nobody is complaining about the attendance. We're complaining about the idiots that caused this situation. I wasn't there and have no intentions of ever being there again, unless I outlive the three stooges cancer on the program. I think all the people that came dressed as an empty seat see the same point that I do.
 

blueboro007

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Dec 8, 2006
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The point is, nobody is complaining about the attendance. We're complaining about the idiots that caused this situation. I wasn't there and have no intentions of ever being there again, unless I outlive the three stooges cancer on the program. I think all the people that came dressed as an empty seat see the same point that I do.
Gotcha. Maybe I'm wrong but seems a lot ARE complaining about attendance on this thread. But, kind of like elections...if you don't vote don't complain about the outcome.
 

ewglenn

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Oct 6, 2021
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Gotcha. Maybe I'm wrong but seems a lot ARE complaining about attendance on this thread. But, kind of like elections...if you don't vote don't complain about the outcome.
I’ve attended my fair share of games this season. I’ll complain about it because the product has been less than desirable. If we were sitting at 7-3 I would have gone. Absolutely no way I can convince the lady to go with the weather we had at 5-5. Luckily Stock and Co. have FIU to get to that 6 win mark. LFG!
 

Raiderclyde

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May 1, 2012
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Just hope all of you complaining about attendance were there as I was. If you were not, why complain?
Game attendance is cause and effect result and is plain as these program observations:

1. Years of mediocre records with same HC/staff without discernable improvement in goals.

2. Lack of conference championships in CUSA/Sun Belt (30 years outright, 16 since last co-championship with plus one year already on the way). MT is effectively out of championship contention by October 31 in most years with this regime.

3. Coaches and administrators indifferent to fans expectations such as lack of transparency to take questions at coaches or post game shows or other suggestions to make MT better. Who knows what else has been ignored from fans and supporters over the last decade. My suggestion is look at UTK and learn how to win and build a program.

4. Institutions in our television/regional market improved their football fortunes in recent years (such as UTK, Memphis, WKU, and UAB).

5. Losses to Vanderbilt (2015, 16, and 18), inexplicable FCS losses, losses to WKU, plus overall losing bowl record under this coaching regime. These are games fans remember! This coaching staff has earned what success they have on the bottom feeders of the conference along with some FCS wins. Occasionally, this staff will win a game like Miami and Georgia Tech to keep a spark of hope alive, but those wins get quickly erased with games such as McNeese state.

6. De-emphasis of the Blue Raider radio network coverage throughout Middle Tennessee (such as loss of WMOT 89.5).

7. Football facilities allowed to get aged/almost threadbare without significant improvement. Our stadium largely looks the same as it did back in 1998...thats almost twenty-five years now! Peer institutions such as UNT, UAB, Charlotte, and ODU have fresher looking and nicer facilities. We also do not have an IPF as many on our level has already. Our proposed improvements maybe will bring us to the mid 2010's. And yes, Tennessee Tech in beautiful Cookeville, Tennessee has a nicer video scoreboard than MT currently.

8. Administratively, we have granted ill-advised coaching contracts which handcuffs us to make changes where it is too expensive/difficult for us to consider fresher and rising star talent. HC isn't really held accountable for improvement (really cause of #1) towards earning championships. Charlotte made a HC change a few weeks ago without much hesitation. Weak AD supervision and ineffective/indifferent Cope leadership that tolerate mediocrity are part of the root causes.

9. The C-USA implosion and our leadership not navigating us proactively to the MAC or another established conference. Replacement teams will be FCS teams moving up to FBS such as Jacksonville State, Kennesaw State, and Sam Houston State. It doesn't allow us to be in the same light as P5 or really even G5 competition and we are behaving more like our FCS days in the OVC. I viewed USM, UAB, and Marshall as our peers, now they are moving forward and probably ahead of us.

And why should "Jack and Dianne fan" feel enthusiastic about MT football given these features and repeated miscues? With all this, how in the world can we establish credibility to stand competitive with SEC caliber competition in recruiting or on the field winning a game? If we can't win hearts of 37132 and 37130, where else can we win to fill stands? Why give money and valuable resources (businesses) when often its effect and impact is squandered away?

The empty steel stands show for what it is: Program Failure.
 

SpaceRaider

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Jul 22, 2001
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God's Country
Commenting on attendance is just making an observation. Like an RN or and MD taking your temperature or Blood Pressure isn't criticism. Attendance is a vital sign as to the health of the football program and 90% would argue that MT football in late 2022 is in serious condition, and that can not be denied.

 
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Hop45

All American
Jul 27, 2005
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Game attendance is cause and effect result and is plain as these program observations:

1. Years of mediocre records with same HC/staff without discernable improvement in goals.

2. Lack of conference championships in CUSA/Sun Belt (30 years outright, 16 since last co-championship with plus one year already on the way). MT is effectively out of championship contention by October 31 in most years with this regime.

3. Coaches and administrators indifferent to fans expectations such as lack of transparency to take questions at coaches or post game shows or other suggestions to make MT better. Who knows what else has been ignored from fans and supporters over the last decade. My suggestion is look at UTK and learn how to win and build a program.

4. Institutions in our television/regional market improved their football fortunes in recent years (such as UTK, Memphis, WKU, and UAB).

5. Losses to Vanderbilt (2015, 16, and 18), inexplicable FCS losses, losses to WKU, plus overall losing bowl record under this coaching regime. These are games fans remember! This coaching staff has earned what success they have on the bottom feeders of the conference along with some FCS wins. Occasionally, this staff will win a game like Miami and Georgia Tech to keep a spark of hope alive, but those wins get quickly erased with games such as McNeese state.

6. De-emphasis of the Blue Raider radio network coverage throughout Middle Tennessee (such as loss of WMOT 89.5).

7. Football facilities allowed to get aged/almost threadbare without significant improvement. Our stadium largely looks the same as it did back in 1998...thats almost twenty-five years now! Peer institutions such as UNT, UAB, Charlotte, and ODU have fresher looking and nicer facilities. We also do not have an IPF as many on our level has already. Our proposed improvements maybe will bring us to the mid 2010's. And yes, Tennessee Tech in beautiful Cookeville, Tennessee has a nicer video scoreboard than MT currently.

8. Administratively, we have granted ill-advised coaching contracts which handcuffs us to make changes where it is too expensive/difficult for us to consider fresher and rising star talent. HC isn't really held accountable for improvement (really cause of #1) towards earning championships. Charlotte made a HC change a few weeks ago without much hesitation. Weak AD supervision and ineffective/indifferent Cope leadership that tolerate mediocrity are part of the root causes.

9. The C-USA implosion and our leadership not navigating us proactively to the MAC or another established conference. Replacement teams will be FCS teams moving up to FBS such as Jacksonville State, Kennesaw State, and Sam Houston State. It doesn't allow us to be in the same light as P5 or really even G5 competition and we are behaving more like our FCS days in the OVC. I viewed USM, UAB, and Marshall as our peers, now they are moving forward and probably ahead of us.

And why should "Jack and Dianne fan" feel enthusiastic about MT football given these features and repeated miscues? With all this, how in the world can we establish credibility to stand competitive with SEC caliber competition in recruiting or on the field winning a game? If we can't win hearts of 37132 and 37130, where else can we win to fill stands? Why give money and valuable resources (businesses) when often its effect and impact is squandered away?

The empty steel stands show for what it is: Program Failure.
I would also add the fact that there are no outward changes indicating the staff is trying to make the program better. Isn't the "E" in EATT for EFFORT? CRS and the coaching staff need to show the fan base a little more effort in improving things rather than just coasting to retirement.
 

MidTennMtneer

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I would also add the fact that there are no outward changes indicating the staff is trying to make the program better. Isn't the "E" in EATT for EFFORT? CRS and the coaching staff need to show the fan base a little more effort in improving things rather than just coasting to retirement.
Bingo. If they were showing an attempt at improving....ie trying new schemes, changing staff, I think some of us would calm down. I don't think Stock has ever flat out fired a coordinator. Has he?

And last year when some staff shuffling actually happened, that was the first time in YEARS I remember him doing that.
 

FranklinRaider315

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Bingo. If they were showing an attempt at improving....ie trying new schemes, changing staff, I think some of us would calm down. I don't think Stock has ever flat out fired a coordinator. Has he?

And last year when some staff shuffling actually happened, that was the first time in YEARS I remember him doing that.
He fired Nix and McCorvey in 2016.
Speaking of Nix….look where he landed after the mess at UTSA.

LINK: “Tarleton State DC, Ty Nix”
 
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DisgruntledAlum

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Nov 8, 2021
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These players have to see that Stock is a large part of the problem. I get he has formed relationships, but I would hope they can see.

I would like to think they are unhappy with being average and having no hope of winning a conference championship and no hint of improving.
 

MidTennMtneer

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These players have to see that Stock is a large part of the problem. I get he has formed relationships, but I would hope they can see.

I would like to think they are unhappy with being average and having no hope of winning a conference championship and no hint of improving.
From what I have gathered, especially from Murphy, is this mentality. That we should be grateful for a .500 coach at a G5 school, averaging 6 wins over 17 years, because it could be worse. They view changing coaches and up and down records as bad.

I don't.

Imagine this....Stock left for ECU. Ok. Buyout $. Hire a new coach. First season 3-9, then 7-6, 11-2 champs. Gets hired away. Buyout $ again. New coach. First season 10-4 champs. 6-7, 4-8, 4-8, fired halfway through season 5. Ok. Spend a bit of $, but not huge because he is on his first contract. New coach. Guess what, new IPF is already built though thanks to Stock's buyout.

I'd rather have that, with a few losing seasons, a couple conference champs, excitement that a new coach brings, etc. I guarantee we would have more $ coming in, more fans at games.

I'd rather sacrifice a few seasons here and there to have a few champs here and there.
 
Nov 7, 2021
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Imagine this....Stock left for ECU. Ok. Buyout $. Hire a new coach. First season 3-9, then 7-6, 11-2 champs. Gets hired away. Buyout $ again. New coach. First season 10-4 champs. 6-7, 4-8, 4-8, fired halfway through season 5. Ok. Spend a bit of $, but not huge because he is on his first contract. New coach. Guess what, new IPF is already built though thanks to Stock's buyout.

I'd rather have that, with a few losing seasons, a couple conference champs, excitement that a new coach brings, etc. I guarantee we would have more $ coming in, more fans at games.

I'd rather sacrifice a few seasons here and there to have a few champs here and there.
This x infinity.

This has been my take for a while, too. We are what we are, which is a lower-to-mid level G5 program.

But I'd rather have the type of program that Northern Illinois has. Where a HC wins 1 or 2 conference titles and goes on to "greener pastures," and we receive a buyout. And maybe even going on an undefeated run to end up in a NY6 bowl. And if we have to fire a coach after 2-3 straight mediocre-to-bad seasons, then the buyout we owe is affordable.
 

DisgruntledAlum

Blue Raider Fan
Nov 8, 2021
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From what I have gathered, especially from Murphy, is this mentality. That we should be grateful for a .500 coach at a G5 school, averaging 6 wins over 17 years, because it could be worse. They view changing coaches and up and down records as bad.

I don't.

Imagine this....Stock left for ECU. Ok. Buyout $. Hire a new coach. First season 3-9, then 7-6, 11-2 champs. Gets hired away. Buyout $ again. New coach. First season 10-4 champs. 6-7, 4-8, 4-8, fired halfway through season 5. Ok. Spend a bit of $, but not huge because he is on his first contract. New coach. Guess what, new IPF is already built though thanks to Stock's buyout.

I'd rather have that, with a few losing seasons, a couple conference champs, excitement that a new coach brings, etc. I guarantee we would have more $ coming in, more fans at games.

I'd rather sacrifice a few seasons here and there to have a few champs here and there.
I agree... A school like Middle should be hoping to have to hire a new coach every 3-4 years due to theirs being successful and hired away.

If only we were so lucky...
 

MTFAN61

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Aug 11, 2022
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The fans are actually doing exactly what they should be doing due to an inferior product being offered to them. They've just stopped buying it. If your truck needs 91 octane to run smooth your not buying the inferior grade every week. This truck & a lot of others are tired of running on 87 every week. But unfortunately that's all that the MT gas pump is offering. That's why there's no lines
 

FranklinRaider315

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I’m afraid the damage is done. It’s been done for several years. They know it, we know it and unless someone steps up to pay him a small fortune to go away, he’s ours, and the admins are ours in perpetuity. Such a waste of momentum that we had after 2009. 13 seasons of mediocrity.

Something else to chew on…..
Just 11 seasons after birthing a Div. I college football program, the school to which we handed such a “resounding defeat” last weekend, will begin play in the AAC with UAB. The same UAB Football program that was in mothballs for two years until 2017 and claimed the CUSA Championship Title just one season later and again in 2020.

But we competed.
 
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dukewayne

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Jul 11, 2008
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How long until all of this loss of support for football rubs off on the basketball programs? That is if it hasn't already started to rub off.
 

MT Glenn

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How long until all of this loss of support for football rubs off on the basketball programs? That is if it hasn't already started to rub off.
I think it already has. While I haven't been attending a lot of basketball games each year, now it will be zero. I'm done with anything touched by McPhee and Massaro until something changes my mind. I'd be surprised if I'm the only one.
 

BRaiderDave

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I’m afraid the damage is done. It’s been done for several years. They know it, we know it and unless someone steps up to pay him a small fortune to go away, he’s ours, and the admins are ours in perpetuity. Such a waste of momentum that we had after 2009. 13 seasons of mediocrity.

Something else to chew on…..
Just 11 seasons after birthing a Div. I college football program, the school to which we handed such a “resounding defeat” last weekend, will begin play in the AAC with UAB. The same UAB Football program that was in mothballs for two years until 2017 and claimed the CUSA Championship Title just one season later and again in 2020.

But we competed.
Competed until we got a 12 men on the field penalty coming out of a damn timeout. That one still floors me.