Men's Basketball Recruiting ??

crposton

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Some of you guys are funny jumping down rabbit holes.. Wasn't meant to be a comparison at every single level of the 2 programs and yes I was trolling some others here for sure as the lack of patience exhibited by a few in Years 1 & 2 (or Day 1 for a few)... and like it or not, nothing was normal last year and won't be until this pandemic is behind us.. I've brought up coaches that struggled their first few years multiple times in my time here and while I appreciate the context of Baylor's situation and how obviously different it is than MTSU's let me also note that you all are only looking at one side of that "worst example/comparison ever" as if I were serious about context..

So.. anyone here think MTSU is going to win a Nat'l Championship in men's bball? Not just 15 years from now but ever? I'll wait....

No need to wait actually since none of you seriously think that any coach at MTSU is going to ever win a Nat'l Championship in men's bball- perhaps y'all should take this "comparison" with the grain of salt that was intended..

Temper the expectations of what MTSU used to be with CKD in his last few years with the reality that CNM should show better results than he has thus far.. CNM is running out of time unless he immediately rights the ship or at least shows demonstrable signs of life/hope and I understand that you're mostly all out of patience but the firing of a coach based on results of these 3 years without respect to context is a bad look by many here since we're now focusing on context these days..
I hope winning a national championship at MTSU is the goal, but I see what you are saying. Do I think we ever will? Probably not. Do I think we have a MUCH better chance to do it in basketball than in football? Definitely.
 

FranklinRaider315

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What is with your final trailing thoughts here... Go home FR315- you're drunk..
Nah. I don’t drink.
But...,,FWIW....I can appreciate why you would defend your former coach knowing what I know now. I still don’t think he’s the guy for the job but that’s just my personal opinion. Players develop loyalty and a bond with their coaches that goes beyond the institution. Or at least the ones who got to actually play. 😂
 
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AustinLewis

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Some of you guys are funny jumping down rabbit holes.. Wasn't meant to be a comparison at every single level of the 2 programs and yes I was trolling some others here for sure as the lack of patience exhibited by a few in Years 1 & 2 (or Day 1 for a few)... and like it or not, nothing was normal last year and won't be until this pandemic is behind us.. I've brought up coaches that struggled their first few years multiple times in my time here and while I appreciate the context of Baylor's situation and how obviously different it is than MTSU's let me also note that you all are only looking at one side of that "worst example/comparison ever" as if I were serious about context..

The thing about comparisons ... is that they are supposed to be well...comparable. So, in the future, if you want to make comparisons, make good ones. As you've pointed out, there are cases where its taken coaches some time to get the wheels turning in the right direction.

But the Scott Drew / Baylor comparison is a terrible comparison.
So.. anyone here think MTSU is going to win a Nat'l Championship in men's bball? Not just 15 years from now but ever? I'll wait...No need to wait actually since none of you seriously think that any coach at MTSU is going to ever win a Nat'l Championship in men's bball- perhaps y'all should take this "comparison" with the grain of salt that was intended..
I don't know of any fans demanding a national championship run, but there's a lot of room between embarrassing and championship.

At this point, reasonable results at MT, IMO, are 20 win seasons REGULARLY with occasional trips to the Dance, along with trips to NIT, CBI, etc.
Temper the expectations of what MTSU used to be with CKD in his last few years with the reality that CNM should show better results than he has thus far.. CNM is running out of time unless he immediately rights the ship or at least shows demonstrable signs of life/hope and I understand that you're mostly all out of patience but the firing of a coach based on results of these 3 years without respect to context is a bad look by many here since we're now focusing on context these days..
And part of context is the demonstrative lack of improvement on the court. They've gone DOWNHILL in total wins each year.

And, I'll be honest, I didn't like the hire. There were other coaches that I liked better, but I gave him a fair shot. And, right now, his performance as HC has been terrible and it's becoming clear that he's not the guy.
 
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kingaling42

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The thing about comparisons ... is that they are supposed to be well...comparable. So, in the future, if you want to make comparisons, make good ones. As you've pointed out, there are cases where its taken coaches some time to get the wheels turning in the right direction.

But the Scott Drew / Baylor comparison is a terrible comparison.


The thing is- my post was just a quick troll in regard to fan's general lack of patience for results.. it wasn't planned or even much thought put into it.. it's really funny how much it's been dissected here but next time I post a comparison I will surely keep it in mind..

Side note: I'll take you more seriously if you learn how the QUOTE button works..

As far as the National Championship reference of the terrible, awful, very bad, no good comparison, you clearly missed the point and only want to argue one side of the comparison- that's very convenient.. if you're going to make a big deal about one part of the comparison don't neglect the flip side of that scenario..

And there have been some improvements if you've been watching the team play the last 3 years- if you're only around for the results then I understand it's a complex game..
 

FranklinRaider315

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The thing is- my post was just a quick troll in regard to fan's general lack of patience for results.. it wasn't planned or even much thought put into it.. it's really funny how much it's been dissected here but next time I post a comparison I will surely keep it in mind..

Side note: I'll take you more seriously if you learn how the QUOTE button works..

As far as the National Championship reference of the terrible, awful, very bad, no good comparison, you clearly missed the point and only want to argue one side of the comparison- that's very convenient.. if you're going to make a big deal about one part of the comparison don't neglect the flip side of that scenario..

And there have been some improvements if you've been watching the team play the last 3 years- if you're only around for the results then I understand it's a complex game..
In fairness, fans and alums don’t pay to watch a game like a coach out on a scouting report. They pay to watch their teams win so yes, results do matter. If I spend a week or two of due diligence and underwriting. Then, prepare an eloquent and fact supported loan request package to present to committee for approval, it doesn’t mean squat if I lose the deal to a competitor. It’s a complex game but I don’t get paid for complex presentations, I’m paid on results.
It’s passed time to win more than 5 basketball games.
 

AustinLewis

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The thing is- my post was just a quick troll in regard to fan's general lack of patience for results.. it wasn't planned or even much thought put into it.. it's really funny how much it's been dissected here but next time I post a comparison I will surely keep it in mind..
Look, I get it. Results take time. But, after a while, it becomes more clear that someone isn't the answer - or a good fit - at a particular program. And when that happens, it is best for BOTH parties to go their separate ways.
Side note: I'll take you more seriously if you learn how the QUOTE button works..

As far as the National Championship reference of the terrible, awful, very bad, no good comparison, you clearly missed the point and only want to argue one side of the comparison- that's very convenient.. if you're going to make a big deal about one part of the comparison don't neglect the flip side of that scenario..
I'm not sure I follow whatever point you're trying to make about comparisons here.

That said, but a "national championship" in MBB at MT is, at this time, an unrealistic goal, just as it was under CKD..

And there have been some improvements if you've been watching the team play the last 3 years- if you're only around for the results then I understand it's a complex game..
Have SOME players improved, sure.

Has the TEAM improved, don't think so. And the results support this :
2018 - 11 wins, 304th in total offense, 196th in total defense (KenPom ranking 246th)
2019 - 8 wins, 188th in total offense, 308th in total defense (KenPom ranking 295th)
2020 - 5 wins, 329th in total offense, 188th in total defense (KenPom ranking 306th)

And, as nice as it is to have some improvement, at some point it's not entirely unreasonable to expect improvement to lead to positive results.
 
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AustinLewis

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Look, I get it. Results take time. But, after a while, it becomes more clear that someone isn't the answer - or a good fit - at a particular program. And when that happens, it is best for BOTH parties to go their separate ways.

I'm not sure I follow whatever point you're trying to make about comparisons here.

That said, but a "national championship" in MBB at MT is, at this time, an unrealistic goal, just as it was under CKD..


Have SOME players improved, sure.

Has the TEAM improved, don't think so. And the results support this :
2018 - 11 wins, 304th in total offense, 196th in total defense (KenPom ranking 246th)
2019 - 8 wins, 188th in total offense, 308th in total defense (KenPom ranking 295th)
2020 - 5 wins, 329th in total offense, 188th in total defense (KenPom ranking 306th)

And, as nice as it is to have some improvement, at some point it's not entirely unreasonable to expect improvement to lead to positive results.
FWIW, McD seems to be a nice guy and I’d love for him and want him to succeed. I’d love for him to prove my evaluation of his time here wrong.

Whenever he leaves MT - and for whatever reason - I want him to be successful. Life’s too short and this world is too full of hate to hate a guy because he’s not at MT.
 

blueraiderJT

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I don't give one crap about winning a national championship. I just don't want to be laughed off the court as we have been these last 3 years. It's the worst 3 year run in the history of our program. Excuses are one thing but when you can't even run a simple offensive play without throwing the ball away or are able to form up a defense with time to get setup, that's a coaching problem. Bottom line. It's basic fundamentals that we are lacking. Even the least talented players can have discipline and be fundamentally sound. That's all coaching. We haven't improved in that area in 3 years. In fact, we are worse now in my opinion.

Now we are in year 4. Not even one firing of an assistant. Crickets. Come on. That's no fire or passion. Nothing. This is exactly what we have become. Nothing.

Loyalty is great and I do respect it but he is a square peg in a round hole here. It's not ever gonna work. He shouldn't be upset. He's made a crap load of money for basically nothing.
 

FranklinRaider315

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Unfortunately, CNM’s contract has saved him for another season. It’s extremely disappointing to think we can’t make a desperately needed change because of a contract that we can’t afford to pay off early. I don’t blame him, I blame his Boss (and his Boss’s Boss.)
 

MTOleBlue

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Let's be realistic here. There is a big difference between being one of the worst teams in all of D1 basketball and being a bad P5 team... When your peers are Mississippi Valley State, UMass-Lowell, Southern Utah, etc. it's not really a good thing.
 
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coachchia

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As a MT BB Letterman, words cannot be displayed here to provide my feelings concerning the current state our program is wallowing (multiple sports)... As for MBB, being a coach for the better part of the last 30+ years, watching them has been a major struggle for me... This comes from a coaching/fundamental/lack of improvement perspective for me... With that being said, the product I've seen these past three years has been such an embarrassment for the university, fans, and citizens of the Boro... I have not been able to speak with former coaches but feel safe in saying their assessment of this situation is abysmal...

I was a part of a Championship team here and my sweat dried many days on Murphy Center courts. For this reason alone, I am majorly disgusted... MT deserves BETTER...

I would, however, like to make one last point. This post has nothing to do with the players, their talent level, or their production... This is about staff, fundamentals, game prep, x/o's....
 

sWiley

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As a MT BB Letterman, words cannot be displayed here to provide my feelings concerning the current state our program is wallowing (multiple sports)... As for MBB, being a coach for the better part of the last 30+ years, watching them has been a major struggle for me... This comes from a coaching/fundamental/lack of improvement perspective for me... With that being said, the product I've seen these past three years has been such an embarrassment for the university, fans, and citizens of the Boro... I have not been able to speak with former coaches but feel safe in saying their assessment of this situation is abysmal...

I was a part of a Championship team here and my sweat dried many days on Murphy Center courts. For this reason alone, I am majorly disgusted... MT deserves BETTER...

I would, however, like to make one last point. This post has nothing to do with the players, their talent level, or their production... This is about staff, fundamentals, game prep, x/o's....


Thanks for your continued dedication with MT and for being a player for us. It's nice to know that it's not only us common fans that think there's serious problems with fundamentals, leadership, culture, game day coaching, x/o's, preparation, etc.

I hope it turns around for Nick here at MT. I really do. But it's going to have to be a complete 180 for me to want to keep him. I'm talking close to 20 wins next year, tangible improvements in every statistical category, a roster that is clearly improving and is RETAINED at the end of the year, etc. Incredible effort, tough defense, winning the 50/50 balls, no easy shots for the opponent, etc. We need to see development, improvement in W/L, and an established identity/culture, and some MEN out on the court imposing their will.

The hero ball has got to go. Getting destroyed at the end of halves has got to go. 10 minute periods without a basket has got to go. Looking lost on offense and consistently being one of the worst offensive teams in the country has got to go. Turning the ball over like it's their job has got to go.

We need men on the court that dish out pain and inflict their will on the opposition. We need a cohesive unit of players that work together and function like a multicellular organism. We need fluidity, high basketball IQ, and discipline. I've never seen Nick pull a player for making a bone headed move or giving up a free basket around the rim, and it happens way too often. How many times were we standing around last year and watching some guy slash down the baseline for a free basket while our defenders were out of position, standing around watching. That just can't happen. Ever. And if it does you call a timeout and you go ballistic. Jesus christ this is D1 basketball you have to make it difficult for your opponent to score. When do we ever get free easy baskets around the rim because our opponents were out of position and/or lazy? Basically never. Because it shouldn't happen.

I could literally go on all day there's so many problems. No idea how this staff can even begin to address everything, especially with our current roster. I just don't see the Jimmy's and Joe's on our roster. I do not envy the position they are in, but they have nobody to blame but themselves. This is their roster now and they must lie in the bed they've made. Personally I don't understand why we just didn't start over. It's pretty obvious Nick isn't the man for Murfreesboro. I would put his chances of turning this around at 5% or less. At that point, you just move on. Why continue to kill the program and continue to kill your fanbase? Unless the AD doesn't think things can get any worse (I guess they can't) and he would rather just sit through single digit win seasons until the contract expires? Such a bizarre situation. There's obviously no commitment to winning here at MT. Could you imagine this situation going on in Bowling Green? Their fans would have burned their head coaches house down for a 5 win season in Year 3 and he would resign in fear.

Kermit got it done here in spite of our $orry ass athletic department. The second he left it's been a disaster ever since with Dumb & Dumber in charge.
 
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kingaling42

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We can’t beat Chattanooga for a player ? LOL

Wondering why you think this kid was a target- perhaps he was as I don't know for certain but I don't see anything out there.. offers from Chatty, New Orleans, TSU, Detroit-Mercy.. self proclaimed Twitter finalist list of Ole Miss, Florida, Ohio St, Vandy, New Orleans, TSU, Chatty which is a pretty random final list for a 2-3 star kid

If he was a target then it sounds like Brady knew what he wanted and it wouldn't be a fit for a program that needs kids who can step up immediately.. article
"I didn't want to go to a school where I had to just come in and had to take on a big role immediately. I wanted to come to a school where I could play with teammates who have already been in the system who I can learn from and they can teach me because they've already experienced a lot of college basketball."
 

FranklinRaider315

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Why are kids these days transferring 3 and 4 times during their high school basketball years??
My junior year in HS, we had 3 guys who eventually signed with D-1 programs. John Kilzer was a Sr. and signed with Memphis St., Greg Fuller and Ed Martindale were Jr.’s and signed with Vandy and Ole Miss, respectively. All of us graduated from JCM.
I think I already know the answer but, I just want someone else to confirm my suspicions.
 
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sWiley

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Wondering why you think this kid was a target- perhaps he was as I don't know for certain but I don't see anything out there.. offers from Chatty, New Orleans, TSU, Detroit-Mercy.. self proclaimed Twitter finalist list of Ole Miss, Florida, Ohio St, Vandy, New Orleans, TSU, Chatty which is a pretty random final list for a 2-3 star kid

If he was a target then it sounds like Brady knew what he wanted and it wouldn't be a fit for a program that needs kids who can step up immediately.. article

I thought we had offered him but I could be mistaken.

Regardless, our recruiting looks pathetic and concerning to this point when you look at the roster as a whole. Don't we have at least 3 ships to give out? Feels like we should at least have a player or two on board with as many needs as we have? I don't want the staff to rush into anything but it's still concerning to me to have 3 or more scholarships available, have so many roster needs, and have nothing on board. When I look around in conference I see our rivals and teams we should measure up to crushing us. WKU continues their great ability to recruit with 4 star PG Zion Harmon committed along with another highly rated C Jamarion Sharp. A 7-2 monster. Zion Harmon is one of the top PG's in the country and could go just about anywhere he wants to. He chose WKU.


La. Tech with a Top 250 recruit in Kaleb Stewart at the PG position who has some sick film. Really impressed with Konkle and the job he's doing at La. Tech. He will be getting a better gig soon as he clearly knows how to build a program. The Lofton Jr. kid is an otherwordly talent amongst CUSA and so much fun to watch. That dude did work in the NIT. Even lowly FAU has a Top 250 player coming aboard with Tre Carroll who looks like a real-deal stretch 4 that will help continue FAU's rise to compete for CUSA championships. I could keep going....

But what about MT?

Nothing. Really worries me we are just out for scraps and picking the last guy available like when you used to have captains and pick teams in middle school....Is MT picking last now since we finished last in the conference and basically last in D1?

I suspect this is probably the result of 3 consecutive losing seasons with progressively worse W/L ratios culminating in a 5 win season last year.....Can't be many kids lining up to play for that.

Where's the reset button ?
 
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kingaling42

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I thought we had offered him but I could be mistaken.

Regardless, our recruiting looks pathetic and concerning to this point when you look at the roster as a whole. Don't we have at least 3 ships to give out? Feels like we should at least have a player or two on board with as many needs as we have? I don't want the staff to rush into anything but it's still concerning to me to have 3 or more scholarships available, have so many roster needs, and have nothing on board. When I look around in conference I see our rivals and teams we should measure up to crushing us. WKU continues their great ability to recruit with 4 star PG Zion Harmon committed along with another highly rated C Jamarion Sharp. A 7-2 monster. Zion Harmon is one of the top PG's in the country and could go just about anywhere he wants to. He chose WKU.


La. Tech with a Top 250 recruit in Kaleb Stewart at the PG position who has some sick film. Really impressed with Konkle and the job he's doing at La. Tech. He will be getting a better gig soon as he clearly knows how to build a program. The Lofton Jr. kid is an otherwordly talent amongst CUSA and so much fun to watch. That dude did work in the NIT. Even lowly FAU has a Top 250 player coming aboard with Tre Carroll who looks like a real-deal stretch 4 that will help continue FAU's rise to compete for CUSA championships. I could keep going....

But what about MT?

Nothing. Really worries me we are just out for scraps and picking the last guy available like when you used to have captains and pick teams in middle school....Is MT picking last now since we finished last in the conference and basically last in D1?

I suspect this is probably the result of 3 consecutive losing seasons with progressively worse W/L ratios culminating in a 5 win season last year.....Can't be many kids lining up to play for that.

Where's the reset button ?
Wiley you continue to be the epitome of impatience with not knowing about basketball recruits.. I do appreciate your passion and level of continued interest despite the last few years though..

There are plenty of quality recruits available especially considering the transfer portal is at just over 1900 kids and with more than 60% of those are currently uncommitted last I saw.. unlike football there are still top HS bball recruits on the board/uncommitted which means the on-the-fence kids hoping for a P5 scholly that are getting strung along with potential empty promises are still likely to domino down to mid-major programs that have scholarships remaining.. there are lots of options available- but it's not a matter of picking up scraps- it's not middle school and there's not a game this afternoon last I checked so no real need to have an intact roster yet. Landing key recruits is certainly the question but that is always the key..
 
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sWiley

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Wiley you continue to be the epitome of impatience with not knowing about basketball recruits.. I do appreciate your passion and level of continued interest despite the last few years though..
Pretty difficult to be patient considering the results over the last 3 years.

Another thing that concerns me is when you sign kids late in the process are they settling for MT, or did they really want to come here? Seems like settling to me, which then seems like they would be much more likely to transfer if they're successful and can go to a Power 5 which is where they really wanted to be all along....

Would be nice to sign kids that want to be here and want to bleed blue. Seems like at this point they would have made that choice, unless we are waiting on fringe Power 5 players being strung along that settle for coming to MT because that Power 5 offer never comes. Which, again, concerns me. Especially with Nick's history of losing his good players at UNCA to Power 5's via the transfer route. And now they don't even have to sit out a year. I'd rather not be a glorified JUCO for fringe power 5 talent.

So pardon me if I'm skeptical and have a bleak outlook. The deck just seems massively stacked against us and I have zero faith in our administrators and leaders at MT to guide us through these trying times.
 
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Wondering why you think this kid was a target- perhaps he was as I don't know for certain but I don't see anything out there.. offers from Chatty, New Orleans, TSU, Detroit-Mercy.. self proclaimed Twitter finalist list of Ole Miss, Florida, Ohio St, Vandy, New Orleans, TSU, Chatty which is a pretty random final list for a 2-3 star kid

If he was a target then it sounds like Brady knew what he wanted and it wouldn't be a fit for a program that needs kids who can step up immediately.. article
The Chattanooga Newspaper and Rivals listed him as receiving an offer.

He grew up in Chattanooga, sounds like he wanted to go home or was going P5.
 

kingaling42

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The Chattanooga Newspaper and Rivals listed him as receiving an offer.

He grew up in Chattanooga, sounds like he wanted to go home or was going P5.
Gotcha.. but Rivals is a joke even though I know they host this site- they don’t even have Chatty or other confirmed schools on Brady’s list and for MTSU the Andersen kid hasn’t been updated in 3+ years and committed to another program how long ago?
 

altshauf

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In all fairness here. I HATE the way college basketball is going with the transfer portal. It is something coaches expressed frustration with at the NABC convention this year. I completely agree this year is an exceptional one in that significantly fewer 2021 kids will have athletic opportunities.

As an example, I have 2 mid-major kids (6'6" SG-Perth, AUS and 6'10" C- Geraldton, AUS) who will be going D2 this year. They both had incredible years (6'6" shot 48% from 3 and led us in scoring while the 6'10" averaged a double double). The 6'10" did battle with a conference opponent's top pick and the top player overall in the state of Louisiana while the 6'6" won offensive MVP at NACA. They should be at the top level, but due to no fault of their own it is just the wrong year to come out of high school as will be the case for 2022's.

D2's are still cycling kids out of the system while D1's will hold on to most of theirs. What has greatly enabled this has been the transfer portal. Coaches treat it like the free-agent market. They would rather pick up someone from there as the "devil you know" approach. As a coach I can see the temptation of getting those guys, but as a fan of college basketball? It is a terrible institution that has been installed. You want to get to know kids over the course of 4 years, but there is no place for someone on the bench for 2. Even if they are playing, they can be instantly poached by a stronger program. All they have to do is sign off on the fact no other coaches were recruiting them while at their current school.

You have these handlers that get in guys' heads constantly moving the around. I know one specifically who would do this with a VHT player and took $$ for it. The kids likely never know, but those around the game and in AAU... you have to watch those guys. Do college coaches do it? We have some proof a few did over the past 5 years. Start looking around Louisville, Arizona, LSU, MS State, etc. You will find out some crazy things happened.

Basically all I'm saying is the moving of college players have become the game. It is becoming NBA-lite. This is sad due to the fact players are forgetting why they are going in the first place. The education piece is so important. It is life-changing for so many who acquire that degree. It was for me, even though I didn't have the desire my first time around to really work at it. College was fun, and thats all I saw. When I was motivated going back I finally understood its importance. Now I send guys to college every year, and am grateful to do it.
 

sWiley

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Something else that I don't think get's enough attention is everyone getting a free year because of COVID.

This essentially helps programs with good talent, and hurts programs with poor talent.

The rich stay rich, the poor stay poor. It's a terrible thing for a school like MT because we desperately need better players, and on the other foot the schools that already have great players can keep them another year.

Double whammy.
 

MTFNBY5

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Based on listening to sports talk radio yesterday it appears a school can exceed the scholarship limit for next year in any sport based on the number of seniors that were on the roster last year. We had two, both of whom are leaving if reports are accurate (not that it matters if they leave or stay if I understand correctly).
With the two graduated, three transferred (so far), and the two granted by the NCAA it appears, at this time, that we have 7 scholarships to give and can have 15 men's BkB players on scholarship.
Do I have this correct?
 

mtfblue

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I know the coaches were hoping the ncaa passed that rule for next year, but I think the vote hasn't happened yet for all sports.
 

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