Marshall WBB

[tyler90wm]

As I sit here "working" and watching Marshall v App St in the sun belt quarterfinals (currently up 100-61), I was wondering if y'all have watched their team this year? They are under first year head coach Kim Caldwell who went 191-24 in seven seasons with D2 Glenville State. Their playing style is very unique as they make frequent substitutions of 4-5 each time; something that is probably a foreign concept to us MT wbb fans. On defense, they play in a half court trap every possession which has led to being one of the top teams in forced turnovers. Offensively, they play quick too and are #5 in PPG.

They were able to snag some quality transfers from JUCO as well as the Hayes sisters from Miss St. I imagine this style of play would be beneficial in tournament style basketball, but wonder how sustainable would it be at a "mid-major" to continuously have a deep enough bench to successfully run this style of play?

If they make the NCAA tournament, I'll definitely make a point to see what they can do as I'm curious to see how they pair against a team with quality athletes top to bottom. They are currently projected around a 14 seed.

 

[MTFAN61]

I remember MT's 2006-07 team loved trapping & pressing while using multiple players all game. Not identical play to Marshall, but some shared similarities. We used that style of play to destroy Gonzaga in the 1st round of the NCAA tourney. I just knew we were going to destroy no name Marist with our press & traps in the 2nd round. Boy was I wrong. Marist was extremely well coached & beat our pressure all night long for multiple fast breaks & layups. It certainly felt like that from what I remember anyway.
Marshall should make it into the tourney & could definitely surprise the opposition if not ready for their pressure.
If MT had stopped trapping & pressing so much I think we could have beaten Marist by just playing a traditional half court game. Our players were superior athletes, but Marist knew how to play the game versus our pressure.
I suppose it's always about the coaches ability to assess & overcome opponent strategy. Will be very interesting to see if Marshall's coach changes game strategy depending on how their upcoming opponents play them.

 

[blue rai]

Glad that Marshall has the Hayes sisters and we have the soon to be named POY on our team! I think we got the better end of that deal!

 

[MTOleBlue]

Glad that Marshall has the Hayes sisters and we have the soon to be named POY on our team! I think we got the better end of that deal!

100% agreed. We shall see what happens in the NCAAs...

 

[MTFAN61]

As I sit here "working" and watching Marshall v App St in the sun belt quarterfinals (currently up 100-61), I was wondering if y'all have watched their team this year? They are under first year head coach Kim Caldwell who went 191-24 in seven seasons with D2 Glenville State. Their playing style is very unique as they make frequent substitutions of 4-5 each time; something that is probably a foreign concept to us MT wbb fans. On defense, they play in a half court trap every possession which has led to being one of the top teams in forced turnovers. Offensively, they play quick too and are #5 in PPG.

They were able to snag some quality transfers from JUCO as well as the Hayes sisters from Miss St. I imagine this style of play would be beneficial in tournament style basketball, but wonder how sustainable would it be at a "mid-major" to continuously have a deep enough bench to successfully run this style of play?

If they make the NCAA tournament, I'll definitely make a point to see what they can do as I'm curious to see how they pair against a team with quality athletes top to bottom. They are currently projected around a 14 seed.

Nice heads up on Marshall game. Just watched replay on ESPN+. That was amazing. If they are a 14 seed, whomever the 3 seed is probably won't know what hit them.

 

[tyler90wm]

Nice heads up on Marshall game. Just watched replay on ESPN+. That was amazing. If they are a 14 seed, whomever the 3 seed is probably won't know what hit them.

Agreed, they appear to be much better than a 14 seed. I'm curious to see how that style of play works against a team that will have better athletes, top to bottom, than they've been playing; quickness and great passing could lead to some points against their defense. Still, I was tired just watching them play!

 

[MTLynn]

MT ought to hire the top DII head coaches, instructors, and administrators.

 

[blueboro007]

Marshall won conference tournament in OT tonight. They shot the ball an unbelievable 99 times compared to 50 something for James Madison. Maybe Father Hayes had finally found a coach who will put up with he and his girls.

 

[MidTennFootball]

Probably helps that James Madison turned it over 39 times

 

[BigGreenTruck]

Glad that Marshall has the Hayes sisters and we have the soon to be named POY on our team! I think we got the better end of that deal!

As a Marshall fan I was sad to see Savannah Wheeler transfer but Im glad she is thriving. But without Wheeler transferring Marshall probably doesn't land DII transfer Abby Beeman (Sun Belt POY, Sun Belt 1st team, Sun Belt Tournament MVP). Beeman is only 5'4 and probably one of if not the best passers in the NCAA men or women. She sees the floor better than anyone Ive watched in a long time.

As far as Alasia and Aislynn they are both a welcome addition. Aislynn probably should have been 2nd team instead of 3rd team that's how well she played this year. She avged 14.2 a game and has scored 458 points this year.

Maybe Father Hayes had finally found a coach who will put up with he and his girls.

Coach Kim had no problems with either Alasia nor Aislynn and if she would have she would have had no problem disciplining them. She proved that early in the season when she suspended Marshall's leading scorer at the time after a 2-4 start. Coach Kim suspended Roshela Scott for playing rogue and not in her system for 5 games. Scott was later dismissed from the program because she started to run her mouth to the wrong players about the coach. Marshall was 2-4 with her in the line up even though she was avging 28.7 points a game, they are 24-2 without her in the line up (Two 10 game winning streaks). I don't think she would have had a problem doing the same to either Hayes sister if either acted the same way.

Good Luck to Middle going forward. And yes if you couldn't tell I still keep an eye on Savannah.

 

[tyler90wm]

That was a heck of a championship game with multiple swings of momentum. There were a few times Marshall looked like they were about to run away with the win, but JMU responded. Good luck to Marshall in the tournament; I'll definitely catch their game.

 

[Tomorrow299]

As a Marshall fan I was sad to see Savannah Wheeler transfer but Im glad she is thriving. But without Wheeler transferring Marshall probably doesn't land DII transfer Abby Beeman (Sun Belt POY, Sun Belt 1st team, Sun Belt Tournament MVP). Beeman is only 5'4 and probably one of if not the best passers in the NCAA men or women. She sees the floor better than anyone Ive watched in a long time.

As far as Alasia and Aislynn they are both a welcome addition. Aislynn probably should have been 2nd team instead of 3rd team that's how well she played this year. She avged 14.2 a game and has scored 458 points this year.

Coach Kim had no problems with either Alasia nor Aislynn and if she would have she would have had no problem disciplining them. She proved that early in the season when she suspended Marshall's leading scorer at the time after a 2-4 start. Coach Kim suspended Roshela Scott for playing rogue and not in her system for 5 games. Scott was later dismissed from the program because she started to run her mouth to the wrong players about the coach. Marshall was 2-4 with her in the line up even though she was avging 28.7 points a game, they are 24-2 without her in the line up (Two 10 game winning streaks). I don't think she would have had a problem doing the same to either Hayes sister if either acted the same way.

Good Luck to Middle going forward. And yes if you couldn't tell I still keep an eye on Savannah.

I’ve watched them all year. I’ve never seen a system like this, and at the beginning of the season I don’t think there was any way it would work. I watched them beat Florida and still don’t think it would work. I was wrong! The fact that Caldwell has 12 quality players that play 11+ minutes a game is amazing. …with Mahogany Matthew’s back from injury they could pull an upset or two. Very fun team to watch!

 

[BigGreenTruck]

I’ve watched them all year. I’ve never seen a system like this, and at the beginning of the season I don’t think there was any way it would work. I watched them beat Florida and still don’t think it would work. I was wrong! The fact that Caldwell has 12 quality players that play 11+ minutes a game is amazing. …with Mahogany Matthew’s back from injury they could pull an upset or two. Very fun team to watch!

Anyone familiar with WV Girls HS sports knew about this system going back to the mid 1980s. Coach Kim's dad Scott Stephens was the girls HC of Parkersburg South for 32 years. Most of Kim's concepts that she run come from him. While at Parkersburg South Scott Stephens won 8 state titles, was in the finals 13 times and made the tournament 29 of his 32 years.

Coach Kim was 194-23 at Glenville State with a National Championship in 2022 with a 33-1 record. She lost all but 2 players to graduation or the transfer portal (5 girls transferred to DI, 3 others to DII programs). Promptly recruited 15 new players and took them to the Elite 8 the next year where they got beat by the eventual DII National Champions.

Coach Kim has said in interviews that she likes to sub every min half but will sometimes go down to every 35 seconds if the situation is right. In the App State game no one played more than 11 mins in the first half and they still had 4 scorers in double figures and 62 points on the scoreboard. In the final James Madison had 39 turnovers. I went back an charted them last night and 32 of them was forced because of Marshall's press and chaotic defensive style.

 

[tyler90wm]

I’ve watched them all year. I’ve never seen a system like this, and at the beginning of the season I don’t think there was any way it would work. I watched them beat Florida and still don’t think it would work. I was wrong! The fact that Caldwell has 12 quality players that play 11+ minutes a game is amazing. …with Mahogany Matthew’s back from injury they could pull an upset or two. Very fun team to watch!

You've perfectly illustrated one of the main reasons I created this thread. Is this style of play sustainable at the "mid-major" level in that you need a full bench of quality athletes?

As for the NCAA tournament, Marshall may very well pull an upset, I could see them catching a better seeded team off guard, but us MT wbb fans can attest that achieving a first round win is difficult, even with our most dominate teams we've fielded. There is a lot less parity in wbb when it comes to the top teams and the rest.

 

[BigGreenTruck]

You've perfectly illustrated one of the main reasons I created this thread. Is this style of play sustainable at the "mid-major" level in that you need a full bench of quality athletes?

As for the NCAA tournament, Marshall may very well pull an upset, I could see them catching a better seeded team off guard, but us MT wbb fans can attest that achieving a first round win is difficult, even with our most dominate teams we've fielded. There is a lot less parity in wbb when it comes to the top teams and the rest.

The players that were here last year and coming off the bench this year for Marshall, most didn't even play back up minutes last year more like all had mop up duty. And the potential for most looked bleak at best in a DI uniform.

A few weeks before the coaching change I remember talking to a few people and saying we probably had at least 3-5 players that needed to be gently nudged to transfer. All but one of those I listed are the 3-5 players I thought needed to transfer. What ever it is Coach Kim knows how to unlock a kids playing ability that others just don't see.

We lost 2 players when the coaching change happened. Soph walkon Ksenija Mitric who had only played in 3 games and Jr Samantha LaFon who had played in 42 games and scored 77 points. Neither a big loss.

It will be interesting to see what kind of players Coach Kim will get to come in. She has three open scholarships right now and probably 2-3 on the end of the bench that will probably transfer. Who ever she brings in I know two things they will have to have, high character and they will have to know how to shoot the ball.

 

[MTOleBlue]

You've perfectly illustrated one of the main reasons I created this thread. Is this style of play sustainable at the "mid-major" level in that you need a full bench of quality athletes?

As for the NCAA tournament, Marshall may very well pull an upset, I could see them catching a better seeded team off guard, but us MT wbb fans can attest that achieving a first round win is difficult, even with our most dominate teams we've fielded. There is a lot less parity in wbb when it comes to the top teams and the rest.

Very true. If they play like they did in that championship, they’re gonna get clobbered (as we are sadly familiar with). But there’s always the chance of a Cinderella run!

 

[MidTennFootball]

I think Marshall's style of play being sustainable depends on what happens when teams start to adjust, otherwise it just becomes a gimmick. For all its success, once ppl started to figure out VCU under Smart their havoc defense wasn't as intimidating.

If your a team that has multiple playmakers/handlers and a big with good hands, it's a little less daunting. Only thing that would worry me if Middle played them is the fact that CRI is the complete opposite and I'd worry about depth being a factor.

On the whole, I like the philosophy. By subbing so liberally, the whole bench us invested and it reinforces that if your prioritize your role as a defender, you will play

 

[BigGreenTruck]

I think Marshall's style of play being sustainable depends on what happens when teams start to adjust, otherwise it just becomes a gimmick. For all its success, once ppl started to figure out VCU under Smart their havoc defense wasn't as intimidating.

If your a team that has multiple playmakers/handlers and a big with good hands, it's a little less daunting. Only thing that would worry me if Middle played them is the fact that CRI is the complete opposite and I'd worry about depth being a factor.

On the whole, I like the philosophy. By subbing so liberally, the whole bench us invested and it reinforces that if your prioritize your role as a defender, you will play

It worked for 7 years at Glenville State with a 191-24 (132-12) record. Ive called what she runs Nolan Richardson's 40 minutes of hell, on cocaine. It's similar to an NCAA football program running the wishbone or flex T. Most teams who play against that only see it once and they have to prepare for it more than usual taking you out of even the rhythm of how you normally practice. Then when you see it on the court you realize it's something you can never replicate in a practice environment.

Coach Kim has explained her method of coaching on the coaches tour last year. At the DII level you are allowed 17 scholarships, she has said she always wanted at least 13-14 pure shooters that can run. You take 5 at a time and run full speed up and down the court for no more than a minute and half usually shorter. Then you rinse and repeat. At the DI level you are allowed 15 scholarship, she has said she will have 11-13 shooters on the roster at all times. Most teams keep up with her teams for a half or so but most teams also only have a rotation of 7-9 players too. And once the third quarter to mid third quarter hits most teams are completely run ragged while each of her players have only played 9-11 mins each.

 

[MTLynn]

When Insell first took the MT job, his teams were run-and-gun

 

[MTFAN61]

With good rest & fresh legs I definitely like MT

 

[MTFAN61]

With good rest & fresh legs I definitely like MT

However, if this was a 3-4 day tournament & we were to meet Marshall after 2 to 3 consecutive days of back to back games I could see the Thundering Herd taking advantage of our short bench play.

 

[MidTennFootball]

It worked for 7 years at Glenville State with a 191-24 (132-12) record. Ive called what she runs Nolan Richardson's 40 minutes of hell, on cocaine. It's similar to an NCAA football program running the wishbone or flex T. Most teams who play against that only see it once and they have to prepare for it more than usual taking you out of even the rhythm of how you normally practice. Then when you see it on the court you realize it's something you can never replicate in a practice environment.

Coach Kim has explained her method of coaching on the coaches tour last year. At the DII level you are allowed 17 scholarships, she has said she always wanted at least 13-14 pure shooters that can run. You take 5 at a time and run full speed up and down the court for no more than a minute and half usually shorter. Then you rinse and repeat. At the DI level you are allowed 15 scholarship, she has said she will have 11-13 shooters on the roster at all times. Most teams keep up with her teams for a half or so but most teams also only have a rotation of 7-9 players too. And once the third quarter to mid third quarter hits most teams are completely run ragged while each of her players have only played 9-11 mins each.

I mean it clearly works, but teams in their own conference will see it enough times that they'll have a chance to adjust and against P4 teams, little bit harder because bc of the talent discrepancy. I think it has the potential to be a blueprint for other Mid-Majors to follow.

I wish CRI trusted his bench like Marshall does bc I think MT could easily go 10 deep if they wanted to. Marshall def won't have to worry about fatigue

 

[MidTennMtneer]

Well this isn't working out as planned. Marshall down 70-33 near end of 3rd.

 

[tyler90wm]

Well this isn't working out as planned. Marshall down 70-33 near end of 3rd.

While it's impressive what their coach has done in year one, I suspected their style of play could lead to a huge blowout L if they're playing a tall, athletic team that can break their press.

 

[MidTennFootball]

Best of luck to Marshall going forward, but this is the kind of result I had in mind for the teams that lean too heavily on pressure. They should have great success against similarly talented teams, but against high major programs, they're gonna need a counter to whenever the pressure isn't effective

 

[MTLynn]

Their playing style is very unique as they make frequent substitutions of 4-5 each time; something that is probably a foreign concept to us MT wbb fans. On defense, they play in a half court trap every possession which has led to being one of the top teams in forced turnovers. Offensively, they play quick too and are #5 in PPG.

 

[BigGreenTruck]

Best of luck to Marshall going forward, but this is the kind of result I had in mind for the teams that lean too heavily on pressure. They should have great success against similarly talented teams, but against high major programs, they're gonna need a counter to whenever the pressure isn't effective

VA Tech was probably the 2nd or 3rd worst match up for Marshall. VA Tech starting 5 even without Kitley (6'6) in the game avged 6'2 (Third tallest team in the tournament behind LSU and USC), Marshall's starters avged 5'7, our two PGs were Beeman 5'4 and Campbell 5'5.

The 7" height advantage over all and the 9" over Campbell and 10" over Beeman didn't help but then again our shot for the first 12-13 mins just wasn't falling. Marshall did beat Florida earlier in the year that had a team that started 4 6'0 and a 6'1 power forward. That night our shots were falling and some of our players were just quicker.

We lose both Beeman and Campbell and Coach Kim will either have 5 or 6 scholarship offers so it will be interesting to see who she brings in and if she upgrades the height.

I know of one offer out right now to Parkersburg High School's 5'7" Point Guard Trinity Balog, the WV HS Gatorade Player of the year. Balog finished her HS career with 1873 points, 912 asst and 736 rebounds. She was also a career 94% FT shooter.

They may have lost and lost big but still proud of that group. All but 5 were there last year and they didn't have to stay through a coaching change and they didn't have to buy in to a new style but for the most part they did. That group went from 17-14 and getting beat by 19 as the 8th seed in the first round of the SB tournament to SB regular season champs at 17-1, tournament champs and finished 26-7 and the most wins in program history.

 

[tyler90wm]

Well it looks like we will get the opportunity to go up against this style of play next year in Knoxville! Sucks for Marshall; it would have been nice to see them retain her for at least another year.

 

[MidTennFootball]

This is going to be an interesting test run to see if this philosophy can work at a high level

 

[Scomo64]

Hayes girls are back in the portal.

 

[MidTennFootball]

Hope they go to Western, beat em all at the same time

 

[TruBluCop]

Hayes girls are back in the portal.

What a joke. Sad bunch. Why would a coach take them?

 

[Blue Raider Lightning]

What a joke. Sad bunch. Why would a coach take them?

Agree 100%! Provided they do transfer, it'll be the fourth team for each sister. Even in these Covid years that may be a record.