MAC talk

[crposton]

Everything I said about Ohio is true. Sorry if the truth hurts. You are welcome to correct anything I said.

The state/city/local/school district/take a shit taxes here in this state should be CRIMINAL. It's literally almost another 10% of my income, on top of the federal taxes I already pay. Go live in Tennessee, Texas, or Florida. The infrastructure is actually BETTER in those states AND you only pay your federal taxes...everything else goes in your pocket. How in the world does Ohio have worse infrastructure while collecting all these taxes?

In Ohio, the infrastructure is worse, AND they steal state/city/local/school district taxes from your paycheck. I'm gonna need an explanation on how exactly that's fair/reasonable (and no, you don't pay a bunch more in property taxes in TX/FL/TN. The sales tax is SLIGHTLY higher, and that's it.) Sad state of affairs here in Ohio, but the vast majority of people were born here and never left the state so they just blindly pay all these taxes and don't know any better.

I moved from TN to WI and I know exactly what you are talking about. My property taxes quadrupled for a smaller house and the majority of those property taxes go to a school district it's own citizens voted to close until the state stepped in. Sooooo much more of my money is taken away by the government and I have no idea where it goes. Nothing up here is any better than TN. One example is the title fee up here to register a new care was $159. That is just the fee to issue the title and does not include the taxes and such. I looked at an old TN registration and the amount by the label "title fee" was $5.00.

I am with you on this Wiley. I would rather take a risk with whatever CUSA ends up as then just accept "a stable and decent enough conference" as one post said. I guess Stock is a stable and decent enough coach too. We can be a stable and decent enough program.

I am not bashing the MAC because I think they have some good teams. Also it is not impressive for a northern team to have an IPF. Kind of needed up here in the winter. I just don't have any desire to play teams in Michigan and Ohio at all. If we make the right moves with who ends up in CUSA after the dust settles I really do believe it could end up being a conference as good as any other G5 conference. The MAC is solid and stable. If that is what you want then the MAC is great. I want more than that. I want more than the Rick Stockstill of conferences.

 

[TRUEBLUE73]

Dammit, don't suck me back in.

"Do you know what caused Middle and WKU to go screaming to the MAC?"

Yes, ineptitude, laziness, mismanagement, and/or incompetence put us in this position. Had we managed the athletics properly, Stockstill wouldn't have been given a lifetime contract, Nick McDevitt never would have been hired, football would be recruiting better, MBB might have reloaded instead of having to be completely be rebuilt, facilities would already be online or at least be under construction and MT would be viewed as an extremely valuable to property to every other league outside of a P5 conference. Additionally, the university could have created a fan/alumni first environment instead of the paternalistic "we know better than you" mindset in Cope and Murphy that might have helped fundraising instead of running through - what the need for our 10th BRAA director in the last 15 years?? In other words, every single thing we've done for the past 12 years put us in this position. And I'm just not a fan of making another bad decision because we've been forced into the situation by a bunch of other bad decisions.

"Do you know who CUSA is talking to?"

Yes. And I can live with the four coming. Though it should be only three (and probably would have been if we weren't leaving).

"Is that what you want?"

Well, if we're talking about what I want, I want for all those bad decisions made in the first question not to have occurred. But we are where we are. However, just because we are where we are still doesn't mean I have to accept the premise we should accept another bad decision cause this is our only option. Right now the only chance we have at becoming competitive again is an influx of cash. And it's not going to come from donors if we're going to the MAC. The next two years of revenue being forfeited by the other nine leaving could have set us up to do all the things that should have already happened. It's almost like a second chance at a missed opportunity, but we're about to squander it again. Look, virtually no one wants to join this league now, but we can find three schools to get us to eight to rake the funds. Bottom line to my views on this is even if the new C-USA was an absolute bust and we were left with no other options five years from now, we could drop out to become an Independent in football, park our other sports in a more regional southern conference and still be better off than we ever will in the MAC. We're about to give up millions and instead have to pay about $6M in entry and exit fees. We won't even be able to buy out Stockstill's last season now even if he goes 0-12. It's just a bad financial decision for an athletics program that's hemorrhaging money and resources because of all the F ups noted in the first question.

 

[crposton]

The only one of those pickups that are even remotely interesting or has any potential is SHSU. If there were 4 SHSU's lying about the southeast it would make sense to think twice.

I'd still rather play Ohio on ESPN than J-ville state on CBS.

As long as the game is on TV and not streaming, there is literally no difference in watching a game on ESPN vs CBSSports. I hate the current TV deal as well, but I hate ESPN having all games even more. There is nothing special about ESPN except they drive the rankings and make it impossible for non-power teams to make it. All G5 conferences should hate ESPN. They are ruining college football to make a dime.

 

[C-Bow]

When is the MAC’s TV deal up for negotiation? I’d be interested in that. I seem to recall CUSA making a healthy coin when MT made the jump (which was a big reason to jump) only to see the TV deal whittle away into the stadium/FB Live/CBS SN version we have today, which pays peanuts.

 

[TRUEBLUE73]

Ok I see a group of people that want to stay in CUSA. Please answer the following questions.

1. What will our new TV contract be? The current one will certainly be cancelled due to lack of teams?

2. Where is Judy and all of the money we get for sticking around?

3. Which teams is CUSA bringing in? I have seen nothing but fans talking about teams with football only or programs with no guarantee of being granted access to D1 football.

With everything that has changed in college football we have got to have stability in a conference. We also can’t or won’t afford big time college football coach salaries. Jeff traylor salary is absurd beyond the CRS salary. How can he make more than a Notre Dame HC. Come on man.

 

[Sommy]

It seems like most of us are hoping in 3-4 years we get a shot at a bigger conference, whether we stay in CUSA or go with the MAC. Either way, a lot of us hope it's a temporary move.

The problem again is leadership at MT and positioning us in 3-4 years to be a candidate to move up. I have zero faith in the leadership this will happen. So if we don't move up in 3-4 years, would we rather be stuck in the newly formed CUSA or the stable MAC.

CUSA only makes sense if we are confident we can get out in 3-4 years. Being stuck with Jacksonville State and Tarleton past that would really suck and be a death sentence. If we are confident we could get some $$$ and get out, then maybe it makes sense. I don't think we will get much of a look in 3-4 years based on what I've seen the past 10 years so I would rather be sentenced to the MAC long-term if a promotion doesn't come to fruition And I do like the weeknight games when it's the only thing on.

 

[crposton]

It seems like most of us are hoping in 3-4 years we get a shot at a bigger conference, whether we stay in CUSA or go with the MAC. Either way, a lot of us hope it's a temporary move.

The problem again is leadership at MT and positioning us in 3-4 years to be a candidate to move up. I have zero faith in the leadership this will happen. So if we don't move up in 3-4 years, would we rather be stuck in the newly formed CUSA or the stable MAC.

CUSA only makes sense if we are confident we can get out in 3-4 years. Being stuck with Jacksonville State and Tarleton past that would really suck and be a death sentence. If we are confident we could get some $$$ and get out, then maybe it makes sense. I don't think we will get much of a look in 3-4 years based on what I've seen the past 10 years so I would rather be sentenced to the MAC long-term if a promotion doesn't come to fruition And I do like the weeknight games when it's the only thing on.

Tarleton is not one of the teams coming. It was reported they were talked to for whatever reason, but most recent reporting shows Liberty (more potential than any team in MAC, SBC, or AAC imo), NMSU, Sam Houston State, and Jacksonville State. All of them being full members. If MT and WKU were to stay, that would put CUSA at 9 teams. That stabilizes them enough to collect exit fees from the 9 teams leaving and to see about adding 1-3 more teams if wanted. It is more of a risk, but there is reward there if done correctly. It is a big if, but in my opinion it has the potential to be a more appealing conference down the road.

 

[ewglenn]

You do realize WMU played Wisconsin (lost 24-16) in the Cotton Bowl in 2017… Wonder when Jacksonville State or NMSU will be doing that. Better get used to perpetual mediocrity! Oh wait. We’re already there.

Also that NIU vs FSU game was 17-10 FSU going into the fourth. FSU won 31-10 but it was hardly a beat down.

 

[RandallThomason]

When is the MAC’s TV deal up for negotiation? I’d be interested in that. I seem to recall CUSA making a healthy coin when MT made the jump (which was a big reason to jump) only to see the TV deal whittle away into the stadium/FB Live/CBS SN version we have today, which pays peanuts.

True but the C-USA TV deal prior to our entrance was for a different version of the league. The MAC tv deal in existence now should theoretically only be improved by the addition of MT and WKU because no existing MAC teams are leaving the league as was the case when we entered C-USA.

 

[jcruman]

I moved from TN to WI and I know exactly what you are talking about. My property taxes quadrupled for a smaller house and the majority of those property taxes go to a school district it's own citizens voted to close until the state stepped in. Sooooo much more of my money is taken away by the government and I have no idea where it goes. Nothing up here is any better than TN. One example is the title fee up here to register a new care was $159. That is just the fee to issue the title and does not include the taxes and such. I looked at an old TN registration and the amount by the label "title fee" was $5.00.

I am with you on this Wiley. I would rather take a risk with whatever CUSA ends up as then just accept "a stable and decent enough conference" as one post said. I guess Stock is a stable and decent enough coach too. We can be a stable and decent enough program.

I am not bashing the MAC because I think they have some good teams. Also it is not impressive for a northern team to have an IPF. Kind of needed up here in the winter. I just don't have any desire to play teams in Michigan and Ohio at all. If we make the right moves with who ends up in CUSA after the dust settles I really do believe it could end up being a conference as good as any other G5 conference. The MAC is solid and stable. If that is what you want then the MAC is great. I want more than that. I want more than the Rick Stockstill of conferences.

You guys need to get out a bit more. First off, Wisconsin isn't Ohio...at all. You really think the weather in December is that different between Athens, Ohio and wherever you're at in Tennessee? Is it slightly different? Sure, but you're acting like it's Siberia vs Florida. News flash, you're not in Florida or even Georgia. I lived in Raleigh, North Carolina for years and it was cold, icy, wet and nasty in the winter. You need an IPF in North Carolina, you need one in Tennessee and you need one in Ohio. Ohio has an IPF. And this business of wanting more out of a conference. Really? What if it doesn't want you back? To sit in the situation you're in and STILL think you're deserving of more is kinda crazy. I think the universe is screaming loud and clear...you were passed up by the AAC and even the Sun Belt. Come to grips with who you are and where you are in this world of college athletics.

 

[MidTennMtneer]

The part that has to be factored in a decision isn't if CUSA will make it or if the MAC is settling or if if if.

It's Judy. Would a great vision get us to a bigger conference and build it better? Yes. But Judy has shown nothing she is capable of doing that. Of even negotiating a TV deal. Whatever incarnation CUSA becomes, it will still have Judy. I trust CM more than I trust her. She had a whole conference that has been around for 20 years fall apart in less than a month. If there was someone in charge who we could trust to help guide our future, sure. But we don't.

 

[jcruman]

Everything I said about Ohio is true. Sorry if the truth hurts. You are welcome to correct anything I said.

The state/city/local/school district/take a shit taxes here in this state should be CRIMINAL. It's literally almost another 10% of my income, on top of the federal taxes I already pay. Go live in Tennessee, Texas, or Florida. The infrastructure is actually BETTER in those states AND you only pay your federal taxes...everything else goes in your pocket. How in the world does Ohio have worse infrastructure while collecting all these taxes?

In Ohio, the infrastructure is worse, AND they steal state/city/local/school district taxes from your paycheck. I'm gonna need an explanation on how exactly that's fair/reasonable (and no, you don't pay a bunch more in property taxes in TX/FL/TN. The sales tax is SLIGHTLY higher, and that's it.) Sad state of affairs here in Ohio, but the vast majority of people were born here and never left the state so they just blindly pay all these taxes and don't know any better.

You do pay more in property taxes. I owned property in Texas and the property taxes were just stupid. They actually exceeded what I paid in California on a valuation % basis. Also, in Texas, I paid a toll to pretty much drive anywhere.

 

[MTOleBlue]

Also WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE whether taxes are higher in the north? No one is making you move there. Our buildings will not be transplanted to the Upper Peninsula. Good lord some of you really want to come up with anything to complain about.

 

[RaiderDoug]

Also WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE whether taxes are higher in the north? No one is making you move there. Our buildings will not be transplanted to the Upper Peninsula. Good lord some of you really want to come up with anything to complain about.

LOL, I was just about to post the same thing.

Who cares what taxes are - its a 3-hour football game, were not relocating the campus.

Look at the bright side - for the short visit, you'll pay less in sales tax than in Tennessee.

 

[crposton]

LOL, I was just about to post the same thing.

Who cares what taxes are - its a 3-hour football game, were not relocating the campus.

Look at the bright side - for the short visit, you'll pay less in sales tax than in Tennessee.

My taxes comments were separate from my football conference arguments. Or at least they were supposed to be. Sometimes people just need to vent about the stupid high taxes. I have nothing against the MAC. I just have no desire to have a "rivalry" with Ball State or Northern Illinois.

 

[crposton]

You guys need to get out a bit more. First off, Wisconsin isn't Ohio...at all. You really think the weather in December is that different between Athens, Ohio and wherever you're at in Tennessee? Is it slightly different? Sure, but you're acting like it's Siberia vs Florida. News flash, you're not in Florida or even Georgia. I lived in Raleigh, North Carolina for years and it was cold, icy, wet and nasty in the winter. You need an IPF in North Carolina, you need one in Tennessee and you need one in Ohio. Ohio has an IPF. And this business of wanting more out of a conference. Really? What if it doesn't want you back? To sit in the situation you're in and STILL think you're deserving of more is kinda crazy. I think the universe is screaming loud and clear...you were passed up by the AAC and even the Sun Belt. Come to grips with who you are and where you are in this world of college athletics.

Athens is one of the most southern cities in the MAC. Why not bring up Buffalo, NY and compare that to Murfreesboro? Snowfall is 4" in Murfreesboro compared to 17" in Athens. Temp is 8-10 degrees difference. Average annual snowfall in Buffalo is 84.8 inches, DeKalb, IL 28 inches, Toledo, OH 31 inches, Mt. Pleasant, MI 41 inches, etc.

 

[MTOleBlue]

My taxes comments were separate from my football conference arguments. Or at least they were supposed to be. Sometimes people just need to vent about the stupid high taxes. I have nothing against the MAC. I just have no desire to have a "rivalry" with Ball State or Northern Illinois.

We do not have a rivalry with Rice or FIU right now, so... no one is forcing us to automatically become Bama vs Auburn level haters of MAC teams (other than WKU, of course)!

 

[crposton]

We do not have a rivalry with Rice or FIU right now, so... no one is forcing us to automatically become Bama vs Auburn level haters of MAC teams (other than WKU, of course)!

But we did have one with UAB and I would say Marshall. WKU is our main rivalry, but we need some secondary ones. I understand why some are "happy" with the move to the MAC, but I think it is a terrible idea and have no desire to be in the MAC at all. Nothing personal with any of the MAC programs. I love watching MACtion and I think there is some good football. I just am not a fan of us being in the MAC.

 

[RaiderDoug]

My taxes comments were separate from my football conference arguments. Or at least they were supposed to be. Sometimes people just need to vent about the stupid high taxes. I have nothing against the MAC. I just have no desire to have a "rivalry" with Ball State or Northern Illinois.

Fair enough. I just spent 3 weeks in Pennsylvania working and I heard plenty about taxes there. Stop voting for that nonsense. That's a whole 'nuther discussion.

But at the end of the day, is there really a huge difference between Ball State and Northern Illinois and Jacksonville State and Liberty? Most of us ain't traveling to away games anyway.

The two big differences I see are:

1. ESPN. This can't be understated. It's huge to have your games on the network. Not streaming either.

2. I think we're set up to be more competitive in the MAC.

Some of you guys (not you personally, but some others) haven't seemed to realize that we're not a competitive athletic department. You can scream, cry, tantrum, hissy fit, lament, curse, bang your head against the wall all you want about the lack of effort from the athletic department, but at some point, you're the old man yelling at the clouds. It ain't changing. That's what the people who are in charge have decided. We're stuck with them for the foreseeable future. If we don't like it, there's nothing we can do about it.

Personally, I think the MAC is far more winnable than being a dog in the old CUSA or the new CUSA. Like I said before, we're all of a sudden a big budget school with the best recruiting grounds in the conference.

I think we're a very poor fit with schools in Texas or Florida who are trying to win championships.

If we all want to get to someplace bigger or better, than winning a few MAC titles on ESPN is going to go a lot farther than barely eeking out .500 while spending half of our games in Texas or Connecticut that no one can watch anyway because they're on some blurry CBS streaming option that no one has anyway.

 

[RaiderDoug]

And if it all fails, i'll put my nerd glasses on and I'd still rather be linked academically with Ohio, and Buffalo, and Kent than the loose collection of buy-a-degree from your TV junior colleges we
are about to be associated with..

 

[MTOleBlue]

Interesting news that the most-watched game this year so far is Michigan vs Michigan State this past week with nearly 10 million viewers.

 

[MT01]

Fair enough. I just spent 3 weeks in Pennsylvania working and I heard plenty about taxes there. Stop voting for that nonsense. That's a whole 'nuther discussion.

But at the end of the day, is there really a huge difference between Ball State and Northern Illinois and Jacksonville State and Liberty? Most of us ain't traveling to away games anyway.

The two big differences I see are:

1. ESPN. This can't be understated. It's huge to have your games on the network. Not streaming either.

2. I think we're set up to be more competitive in the MAC.

Some of you guys (not you personally, but some others) haven't seemed to realize that we're not a competitive athletic department. You can scream, cry, tantrum, hissy fit, lament, curse, bang your head against the wall all you want about the lack of effort from the athletic department, but at some point, you're the old man yelling at the clouds. It ain't changing. That's what the people who are in charge have decided. We're stuck with them for the foreseeable future. If we don't like it, there's nothing we can do about it.

Personally, I think the MAC is far more winnable than being a dog in the old CUSA or the new CUSA. Like I said before, we're all of a sudden a big budget school with the best recruiting grounds in the conference.

I think we're a very poor fit with schools in Texas or Florida who are trying to win championships.

If we all want to get to someplace bigger or better, than winning a few MAC titles on ESPN is going to go a lot farther than barely eeking out .500 while spending half of our games in Texas or Connecticut that no one can watch anyway because they're on some blurry CBS streaming option that no one has anyway.

This is where you are still pressing misnomers.

Almost all MAC games are streaming as part of ESPN+ which is an extra fee or ESPN3. The only games actually on the network itself are the November games, which are all played on Tuesday or Wednesday. We once had a fan base and could draw 20K somewhat consistently. We will never again see 20K if we play our two November home games on Tuesday, our "exposure" in our road games is on a Tuesday or Wed on ESPNU, and the only other exposure the rest of the season is a streaming option.

You are significantly overestimating the exposure value of the MAC's TV deal. Is it better than C-USA? Yes. Would it make up or account for net loss of about $25M over the next three years. Doesn't even get you in the same galaxy much less same ball park.

 

[MTOleBlue]

I'm glad we have financial experts here who can tell us exactly what it all looks like before the ink is dried.

 

[crposton]

And if it all fails, i'll put my nerd glasses on and I'd still rather be linked academically with Ohio, and Buffalo, and Kent than the loose collection of buy-a-degree from your TV junior colleges we
are about to be associated with..

I hate this attitude. You can get a good education at a lot of schools if you want to. Pretty sure most people on this board have never once thought of Buffalo's academic ranking when looking at the MAC's athletics. The SEC is regarded as the worst P5 conference for academics and no one gives a crap about that. They get paid the most money because they win football games. Pac 12 is excellent academically and it gets them nowhere on the field.

 

[GeeMel]

The only games actually on the network itself are the November games, which are all played on Tuesday or Wednesday.

>>> FALSE <<<

Ohio U alone...one team out of 12... this season played:

Sep. 4, Saturday national TV game on CBS SN vs Syracuse
SEP 16 (THU) ESPN (yes, the big one) vs Louisiana
SEP 25 (SAT) 12:00 P.M. TV: BIG TEN NETWORK vs Northwestern
OCT 2 (SAT) vs Akron ESPN3

and while your wife is out bargain hunting on black Friday
NOV 26 (FRI) 12 PM
at
BOWLING GREEN
BOWLING GREEN, OH
TV: ESPNU/CBSSN

Everything else on ESPN+ which at $6/month is a great deal all year

Sure beats playing Terlingstone State on facebook on what is left of the dregs of cusa.

Looking forward to seeing MAC games at MTSU and WKU.

 

[crposton]

And if it all fails, i'll put my nerd glasses on and I'd still rather be linked academically with Ohio, and Buffalo, and Kent than the loose collection of buy-a-degree from your TV junior colleges we
are about to be associated with..

Also of the 4 teams that would be added to the remaining 5 CUSA teams, 2 of them are ranked higher than MTSU. Academic rankings would be FIU, NMSU, Sam Houston, LTU, and MTSU. All the rest are either regional universities or ranked below 299 nationally. NMSU #227 and Sam Houston #249 are ranked similar to Kent #213, CMU #239, BGSU #249, and WMU #263. Only two MAC teams are ranked higher than the highest ranked remaining CUSA team and those are Buffalo #93 and Miami #103. FIU would be highest ranked CUSA team at #162. Previously it was Rice at #17 and then UAB at #148. This is according to U.S. News and World Report. If it was the 5 remaining CUSA teams with Liberty NMSU, SHSU, and Jacksonville State then 5/9 would be ranked top 300 national rankings. 8/12 MAC teams are ranked top 300. After that the other teams are in the range from 299-391.

 

[galojah]

Not so fast... Bowling Green Daily News WKU sports writer:

 

[GeeMel]

And speaking of weather:

Currently in Smyrna TN = 47 degrees
In Oxford OH (Miami) = 45 degrees
In Akron OH = 47 degrees
In Muncie IN (Ball St.) = 45 degrees
In Bowling Green OH = 43 degrees
In Buffalo NY = 46 degrees
In Toledo OH = 47 degrees

ALL WITHIN 4 DEGREES OF EACH OTHER

SOURCE: accuweather.com

(feel free to look them up)

 

[jcruman]

Athens is one of the most southern cities in the MAC. Why not bring up Buffalo, NY and compare that to Murfreesboro? Snowfall is 4" in Murfreesboro compared to 17" in Athens. Temp is 8-10 degrees difference. Average annual snowfall in Buffalo is 84.8 inches, DeKalb, IL 28 inches, Toledo, OH 31 inches, Mt. Pleasant, MI 41 inches, etc.

Since you're good at research, qualify the data a bit further by month. MAC football season only goes through November and I guarantee those snowfall measurements are predominately December, January and February. Nice try, though. You'll be inside watching Ohio basketball beat your guys when it's actually snowing outside.

 

[RaiderDoug]

Also of the 4 teams that would be added to the remaining 5 CUSA teams, 2 of them are ranked higher than MTSU. Academic rankings would be FIU, NMSU, Sam Houston, LTU, and MTSU. All the rest are either regional universities or ranked below 299 nationally. NMSU #227 and Sam Houston #249 are ranked similar to Kent #213, CMU #239, BGSU #249, and WMU #263. Only two MAC teams are ranked higher than the highest ranked remaining CUSA team and those are Buffalo #93 and Miami #103. FIU would be highest ranked CUSA team at #162. Previously it was Rice at #17 and then UAB at #148. This is according to U.S. News and World Report. If it was the 5 remaining CUSA teams with Liberty NMSU, SHSU, and Jacksonville State then 5/9 would be ranked top 300 national rankings. 8/12 MAC teams are ranked top 300. After that the other teams are in the range from 299-391.

Looks like deeper academic waters to me.

But you're right, no one really cares that much. But, things being what they are, it's another, albeit small, feather in the MAC cap.

 

[crposton]

Since you're good at research, qualify the data a bit further by month. MAC football season only goes through November and I guarantee those snowfall measurements are predominately December, January and February. Nice try, though. You'll be inside watching Ohio basketball beat your guys when it's actually snowing outside.

I don't understand why you are here? Nice try though? The weather is not why I don't want the MAC. You and other people brought up weather and I just pointed out that you are using one of the more southern cities in the MAC. It snows during MAC football games in November I can assure you. You know it does too. Regardless of the weather, I still don't want MTSU in the MAC. It is nothing against the MAC. Did you expect to come on here and all of us be jumping with joy over the possibility of playing in the MAC?

 

[EATTandCompete]

This is where you are still pressing misnomers.

Almost all MAC games are streaming as part of ESPN+ which is an extra fee or ESPN3. The only games actually on the network itself are the November games, which are all played on Tuesday or Wednesday. We once had a fan base and could draw 20K somewhat consistently. We will never again see 20K if we play our two November home games on Tuesday, our "exposure" in our road games is on a Tuesday or Wed on ESPNU, and the only other exposure the rest of the season is a streaming option.

You are significantly overestimating the exposure value of the MAC's TV deal. Is it better than C-USA? Yes. Would it make up or account for net loss of about $25M over the next three years. Doesn't even get you in the same galaxy much less same ball park.

Yes, we once pulled 20k fans. UT won the national championship in 1998. Uncle Rico used to be able to throw a football over those mountains. Things change.

If this was 2009 or even 2016 (the last time we got votes in the coaches' poll if I'm not mistaken) I would 100% be against going to the MAC, but a lot has changed since then. We're really bad now and there's no real evidence that we're going to get better any time soon.

With all due respect, you and a few others are arguing on behalf of a team/program/athletic department that just doesn't exist anymore and you may very well be right with your prediction that this is a bad decision, but it's an unknown at this point. Nothing changes the fact that the choices are a cobbled-together conference with terrible leadership or a stable conference that might not meet the expectations that we believe we should have for ourselves but could see us through a leadership transition when that comes.

The Titanic has sunk and we're sitting on a floating piece of debris with a fully-inflated life raft within reach. We can hope the debris stays above water or we can jump on the thing that's designed to float.

 

[sWiley]

But at the end of the day, is there really a huge difference between Ball State and Northern Illinois and Jacksonville State and Liberty? Most of us ain't traveling to away games anyway.

So let's keep the 20 - 25 million in our pockets and play Jacksonville State/Liberty.

Everyone here is greatly overlooking the financial implications of leaving CUSA and going to the MAC. G5 programs like ours are desperate for large cash infusions. An additional $20 million over the next 2-3 years is program changing money if we utilize it appropriately.

So if there's no real difference between playing Ball State and NIU or playing Liberty and Jacksonville State, shouldn't we choose the option that gives us the most money?

 

[Bolt_Up_72]

If this goes down wondering how soon Wikipedia updates the MAC page? : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-American_Conference

 

[MidTennMtneer]

Read that wiki and scroll down a bit to this

"The conference ranks highest among all ten NCAA Division I FBS conferences for graduation rates."

That right there is what McPhee is looking at.

 

[sWiley]

Read that wiki and scroll down a bit to this

"The conference ranks highest among all ten NCAA Division I FBS conferences for graduation rates."

That right there is what McPhee is looking at.

You are sadly not wrong. He's probably been trying to get into the MAC for the last 20 years actually

 

[jcruman]

I don't understand why you are here? Nice try though? The weather is not why I don't want the MAC. You and other people brought up weather and I just pointed out that you are using one of the more southern cities in the MAC. It snows during MAC football games in November I can assure you. You know it does too. Regardless of the weather, I still don't want MTSU in the MAC. It is nothing against the MAC. Did you expect to come on here and all of us be jumping with joy over the possibility of playing in the MAC?

We (MAC) are about to save you from obscurity and I came here to see how that was sitting with your fans. I've done the same with WKU. Interesting how different the two fan bases seem to be receiving the news. WKU, generally, understand who they are and where things are at and seem excited to join the MAC. Fewer MT fans seem to be in that camp. That's interesting - much more interesting than playing weatherman when there's really no weather story.

 

[RaiderDoug]

I don't understand why you are here? Nice try though? The weather is not why I don't want the MAC. You and other people brought up weather and I just pointed out that you are using one of the more southern cities in the MAC. It snows during MAC football games in November I can assure you. You know it does too. Regardless of the weather, I still don't want MTSU in the MAC. It is nothing against the MAC. Did you expect to come on here and all of us be jumping with joy over the possibility of playing in the MAC?

I'd be interested to learn specifically why you don't like the MAC.

I'm not super-crazy about the MAC. I'd much rather be in the Sunbelt, but for any # of reasons, that's not happening. But the new CUSA is dead on arrival.

I don't want to be in the 'new" CUSA. I don't want to be in a conference with a bunch of Texas teams. We don't recruit there. We don't travel there. We don't draw students from there. Their fans aren't traveling to Tennessee, there's no real chance to develop any rivalry there. We're a southeastern school in a southeastern state. We may not 100% fit in the MAC, but we don't fit in there either.

I don't want to be in a conference with a bunch of FCS no-bodies. Ask 10 people where Jacksonville State is and you're going to get 9 Florida answers. Sam Houston State -meh, ok. See my Texas comments. I don't know for sure who Judy is leaving invites on voicemails for, but if it's Florida Gulf Coast, or Central Arkansas, or McNeese or some of the other rumored teams, i'll pass. Say what you will about the MAC and their teams, we'd much rather be associated with some teams with some real history than this hodgepodge of junk. The MAC ain't the B10, but I get the feeling that there's a certain respect across the sport for what niche the MAC has carved out. The new CUSA is a punchline.

I don't want to be in a conference with Liberty. I'm not even 100% sure they are a real university, much less a cover for a slightly out-there church. That's not company we want to keep.

I don't want to be in a conference with NMSU or UConn football - they are the deadest of the dead teams in the sport. If you're drafting a conference from scratch, I promise you that you'll likely pick all the MAC teams before you get to those 2 dogs.

I can keep going - but I feel that, outside of geography, we seem to fit in well with those teams. Like I said before, you don't have to like where we are competitively, but either you accept it or move on.

Ultimately, I think if we want to end up in the Sunbelt, I believe that the easiest road is putting together a few years of success in the MAC. Alternatively, if college football is headed to the great separation between P5 and the rest, than I also think the stability of the MAC is going to help more than the chaotic merry-go-round of teams that CUSA is going to devolve into.

 

[GeeMel]

People will be inside watching Ohio best MTSU in hoops when it actually is winter weather? I like MTSU. My daughter had two degrees from MTSU at the ago of 20, so I do like MTSU. But right now KenPom ranks MT in the 270's going into the season and Ohio eliminated the defending national champs from the last big dance. RIght now it wouldn't be a fair fight. For some reason McDivitt (sp?) doesn't get the same talent Kermit was getting for some of the seasons. As many times as I've been to Murphy Center, the Convo is WAY more impressive. Probably the biggest on campus non-p5 basketball arena. (Wichita St. might be as big, not sure... Hinkle at Butler has been downsized some years after the Hoosiers movie).

 

[crposton]

I'd be interested to learn specifically why you don't like the MAC.

I'm not super-crazy about the MAC. I'd much rather be in the Sunbelt, but for any # of reasons, that's not happening. But the new CUSA is dead on arrival.

I don't want to be in the 'new" CUSA. I don't want to be in a conference with a bunch of Texas teams. We don't recruit there. We don't travel there. We don't draw students from there. Their fans aren't traveling to Tennessee, there's no real chance to develop any rivalry there. We're a southeastern school in a southeastern state. We may not 100% fit in the MAC, but we don't fit in there either.

I don't want to be in a conference with a bunch of FCS no-bodies. Ask 10 people where Jacksonville State is and you're going to get 9 Florida answers. Sam Houston State -meh, ok. See my Texas comments. I don't know for sure who Judy is leaving invites on voicemails for, but if it's Florida Gulf Coast, or Central Arkansas, or McNeese or some of the other rumored teams, i'll pass. Say what you will about the MAC and their teams, we'd much rather be associated with some teams with some real history than this hodgepodge of junk. The MAC ain't the B10, but I get the feeling that there's a certain respect across the sport for what niche the MAC has carved out. The new CUSA is a punchline.

I don't want to be in a conference with Liberty. I'm not even 100% sure they are a real university, much less a cover for a slightly out-there church. That's not company we want to keep.

I don't want to be in a conference with NMSU or UConn football - they are the deadest of the dead teams in the sport. If you're drafting a conference from scratch, I promise you that you'll likely pick all the MAC teams before you get to those 2 dogs.

I can keep going - but I feel that, outside of geography, we seem to fit in well with those teams. Like I said before, you don't have to like where we are competitively, but either you accept it or move on.

Ultimately, I think if we want to end up in the Sunbelt, I believe that the easiest road is putting together a few years of success in the MAC. Alternatively, if college football is headed to the great separation between P5 and the rest, than I also think the stability of the MAC is going to help more than the chaotic merry-go-round of teams that CUSA is going to devolve into.

It is not that I don't like the MAC. I don't like the MAC for us. If you ask 10 people where Middle Tennessee is they would only get it right because it is literally in the name. I don't care about academics or anything else about a university other then their athletic potential when discussing athletic conference affiliation. Liberty is the best football team out of all the ones we are discussing in the MAC or CUSA. I would even argue Sam Houston State could possibly be second best right now without FBS scholarships or money. Whatever the "new" CUSA ends up being will have a much lower floor than the MAC, but can also have a higher ceiling if done right. I feel like going with the MAC is doing what we all talk about hating so much on here. It is taking the easy way out and accepting solid and steady mediocrity. The Sun Belt didn't get to be where it is right now by taking solid programs with good academics. It took FCS programs with history and potential. The Sun Belt was in a similar situation not long ago and they did not all leave. Now we want to all be in the Sun Belt over MAC or CUSA. I would choose Sun Belt over the AAC right now. I think everyone is going to look back and regret not going fully regional. The AAC still have the P6 fantasy and that will soon go away once they realize they took full on garbage from CUSA. My main objection to the MAC is the regionality of it. I hate what ESPN is doing to college sports and once they have us under their umbrella in the MAC that is where we will stay. That is why the AAC didn't take any SBC teams. ESPN already has them.