BASKETBALL Cancun Challenge -Middle Tennessee (3-1) vs. Rider (2-3), 10:30AM, Tuesday, November 23, 2021

[MT01]

because there was almost nothing leftover from the previous roster.

Just not true. There's a lot of psychological manipulation that has gone on to making people believe this. There was still some decent talent. It's simply that CNM's philosophy and system didn't match the players he had and he didn't make much of an effort to modify what he was doing based on what he had and instead seems as though he tried to make them into what he wanted them to be.

I guess I'm the only one not surprised by what's happened. The only thing that has surprised me is that he hasn't really developed anyone and made them better which is why every season has gotten progressively worse. I figured with his limited success at Asheville that we could expect some improvement in players but there just hasn't really been anyone getting significantly better through development. We've seen the opposite as some players have gotten worse.

That said you all know I think Massaro made an epically horrible decision not firing him after last season. But since he's still here I hope the start to this season is a turning point. But like SpaceRaider said earlier there have been a few wins against fairly week competition and that may not mean much by the end of the year. What will shock me is if the team is anywhere near the top half in C-USA (which isn't even that tough of a league). I'm sure if he gets to something like a 14-16 type season these idiots running our athletics will extend him pointing to how its the most wins he's had in a season here and how it's sign things are improving.

 

[sWiley]

That would be like us hiring Art Briles for football. Art would win a lot of games here. That isn’t the issue. The issue is all the baggage you take on just to win some games.

I would hire him in a second. I’m sure he has learned a lot from what happened at Baylor and would be very grateful for a second chance.

 

[sWiley]

Just not true. There's a lot of psychological manipulation that has gone on to making people believe this. There was still some decent talent. It's simply that CNM's philosophy and system didn't match the players he had and he didn't make much of an effort to modify what he was doing based on what he had and instead seems as though he tried to make them into what he wanted them to be.

I guess I'm the only one not surprised by what's happened. The only thing that has surprised me is that he hasn't really developed anyone and made them better which is why every season has gotten progressively worse. I figured with his limited success at Asheville that we could expect some improvement in players but there just hasn't really been anyone getting significantly better through development. We've seen the opposite as some players have gotten worse.

That said you all know I think Massaro made an epically horrible decision not firing him after last season. But since he's still here I hope the start to this season is a turning point. But like SpaceRaider said earlier there have been a few wins against fairly week competition and that may not mean much by the end of the year. What will shock me is if the team is anywhere near the top half in C-USA (which isn't even that tough of a league). I'm sure if he gets to something like a 14-16 type season these idiots running our athletics will extend him pointing to how its the most wins he's had in a season here and how it's sign things are improving.

I feel like they would have to at least add 1 or 2 years if he wins 15 or more. Maybe add 2 years but ask for a low buy out on those 2 years. Hard for a coach to recruit on a short contract.

 

[kingaling42]

Just not true. There's a lot of psychological manipulation that has gone on to making people believe this. There was still some decent talent. It's simply that CNM's philosophy and system didn't match the players he had and he didn't make much of an effort to modify what he was doing based on what he had and instead seems as though he tried to make them into what he wanted them to be.

I guess I'm the only one not surprised by what's happened. The only thing that has surprised me is that he hasn't really developed anyone and made them better which is why every season has gotten progressively worse. I figured with his limited success at Asheville that we could expect some improvement in players but there just hasn't really been anyone getting significantly better through development. We've seen the opposite as some players have gotten worse.

That said you all know I think Massaro made an epically horrible decision not firing him after last season. But since he's still here I hope the start to this season is a turning point. But like SpaceRaider said earlier there have been a few wins against fairly week competition and that may not mean much by the end of the year. What will shock me is if the team is anywhere near the top half in C-USA (which isn't even that tough of a league). I'm sure if he gets to something like a 14-16 type season these idiots running our athletics will extend him pointing to how its the most wins he's had in a season here and how it's sign things are improving.

Look who’s back.. back again! Shady’s back..

 

[MT Glenn]

Just not true. There's a lot of psychological manipulation that has gone on to making people believe this. There was still some decent talent. It's simply that CNM's philosophy and system didn't match the players he had and he didn't make much of an effort to modify what he was doing based on what he had and instead seems as though he tried to make them into what he wanted them to be.

I guess I'm the only one not surprised by what's happened. The only thing that has surprised me is that he hasn't really developed anyone and made them better which is why every season has gotten progressively worse. I figured with his limited success at Asheville that we could expect some improvement in players but there just hasn't really been anyone getting significantly better through development. We've seen the opposite as some players have gotten worse.

That said you all know I think Massaro made an epically horrible decision not firing him after last season. But since he's still here I hope the start to this season is a turning point. But like SpaceRaider said earlier there have been a few wins against fairly week competition and that may not mean much by the end of the year. What will shock me is if the team is anywhere near the top half in C-USA (which isn't even that tough of a league). I'm sure if he gets to something like a 14-16 type season these idiots running our athletics will extend him pointing to how its the most wins he's had in a season here and how it's sign things are improving.

Seriously? You're debating that? EVERY major contributor from the previous season was gone. I know I'm not always the smartest guy in the room, so if this is wrong, you'll need to dumb down your reply so I can understand.

 

[subkyle]

Anyone who thinks that Nick should have had a winning record in his first season has not been following the program. We were completely gutted from graduation, players quitting and transfers. I absolutely think we have underperformed since then but that first year was completely understandable.

 

[MidTennMtneer]

If McD hits .500 for this year I'd keep him around hut I sure as heck wouldn't give him an extension. I understand the recruiting aspect (as we are dealing with in football)

Now next year if he hits 20 wins, I wouldn't have a problem extending him. That would honestly be a hell of a job well done if he improved that much.

I'm happy so far this year. Let's hope it builds in to something. Wont mean squat if we get whipped in conference.

 

[sWiley]

I'm happy so far this year. Let's hope it builds in to something. Wont mean squat if we get whipped in conference.

im not getting too excited personally until we hit CUSA play. Our OOC schedule, outside of a few tough games, is littered with bad/mediocre at best teams.

CUSA Bball is no world beater but it’s very respectable. There’s no easy nights playing in CUSA. So I’m anxious to see how we stack up with conference peers.

 

[MTLynn]

Anyone who thinks that Nick should have had a winning record in his first season has not been following the program. We were completely gutted from graduation, players quitting and transfers. I absolutely think we have underperformed since then but that first year was completely understandable.

Kermit signed a bunch of JUCO players his first season and managed 16-14. The program had done nothing the previous 20 years.

 

[MTLynn]

I'm sure if he gets to something like a 14-16 type season these idiots running our athletics will extend him pointing to how its the most wins he's had in a season here and how it's sign things are improving.

That's what I expect. A .500 program and McDevitt receives a stuckstill type contract.

But, hey, MT is the #1 public school in the nation for graduating athletes. Handing out those university studies degrees like fliers.

 

[MT Glenn]

Kermit signed a bunch of JUCO players his first season and managed 16-14. The program had done nothing the previous 20 years.

Kermit had more to work with. Eric Parham, Tommy Gunn, John Humphrey, William Pippen and Stephen Jackson were returning starters from the previous season. I think Napoleon Rhodes became a starter over Jackson, but his other recruits started. Marcus Robinson played a lot. Can't remember if any of his other recruits contributed in the first season though.

Kermit took Wiel's players and got them to hustle and play with some discipline.

 

[MTLynn]

Kermit had more to work with. Eric Parham, Tommy Gunn, John Humphrey, William Pippen and Stephen Jackson were returning starters from the previous season. I think Napoleon Rhodes became a starter over Jackson, but his other recruits started. Marcus Robinson played a lot. Can't remember if any of his other recruits contributed in the first season though.

Kermit took Wiel's players and got them to hustle and play with some discipline.

Yeah, he whipped them into shape, but I don't think any of those guys were all-conference players. Gunn may have been, I don't remember. I know that Humphrey and Pippen were JUCO transfers, and maybe Parham. Weil beat out Elon to sign Gunn out of high school.

 

[Noogaraider1]

For what its worth, Rider just beat Bucknell 85-79

 

[SigmaNuBlue]

Yeah, he whipped them into shape, but I don't think any of those guys were all-conference players. Gunn may have been, I don't remember. I know that Humphrey and Pippen were JUCO transfers, and maybe Parham. Weil beat out Elon to sign Gunn out of high school.

Gunn was All Conference. Top 10 all time IMO. Just played on terrible teams. Without looking it up, I believe Pippen was honorable mention All Conference. Kermit's first starting 5 included 3 transfers, Robinson, Keith Connor, and Moon along with Gunn and Pippen. Parham played his way into the lineup within a few weeks.

 

[MTLynn]

Gunn was All Conference. Top 10 all time IMO. Just played on terrible teams. Without looking it up, I believe Pippen was honorable mention All Conference. Kermit's first starting 5 included 3 transfers, Robinson, Keith Connor, and Moon along with Gunn and Pippen. Parham played his way into the lineup within a few weeks.

Moon? I don't remember a player with that name from any season

This is the 02-03 roster from Kermits first year:

2002-03 basketball roster

 

[SigmaNuBlue]

Moon? I don't remember a player with that name from any season

This is the 20-03 roster from Kermits first year:

2002-03 basketball roster

Napoleon Rhodes

 

[Hop45]

I wasn't surprised when we were bad in his first season, because there was almost nothing leftover from the previous roster. Getting worse in the following seasons is what's surprising to me.

I even gave him a pass for year 2. Was disappointed there was not some improvement with year 3. Happy to see the strong start this year, but still a long way to go. Murray will be a good measuring stick.